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BS: Burning Korans

Hrothgar 10 Sep 10 - 02:51 AM
Keith A of Hertford 10 Sep 10 - 01:34 AM
mousethief 10 Sep 10 - 12:59 AM
LadyJean 10 Sep 10 - 12:08 AM
Ron Davies 09 Sep 10 - 11:38 PM
dick greenhaus 09 Sep 10 - 11:30 PM
Ron Davies 09 Sep 10 - 11:28 PM
GUEST,erbert 09 Sep 10 - 11:24 PM
Ron Davies 09 Sep 10 - 11:15 PM
GUEST,erbert 09 Sep 10 - 11:02 PM
Bobert 09 Sep 10 - 10:35 PM
katlaughing 09 Sep 10 - 09:55 PM
Emma B 09 Sep 10 - 08:23 PM
Stringsinger 09 Sep 10 - 08:06 PM
Ron Davies 09 Sep 10 - 08:05 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Sep 10 - 08:01 PM
Ron Davies 09 Sep 10 - 07:54 PM
mousethief 09 Sep 10 - 07:39 PM
mauvepink 09 Sep 10 - 07:34 PM
paula t 09 Sep 10 - 07:13 PM
dick greenhaus 09 Sep 10 - 06:49 PM
Lox 09 Sep 10 - 06:29 PM
Ebbie 09 Sep 10 - 06:17 PM
Lox 09 Sep 10 - 06:13 PM
Little Hawk 09 Sep 10 - 06:04 PM
mousethief 09 Sep 10 - 05:49 PM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Sep 10 - 05:24 PM
katlaughing 09 Sep 10 - 05:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 Sep 10 - 05:21 PM
Paco O'Barmy 09 Sep 10 - 04:32 PM
Lox 09 Sep 10 - 04:25 PM
mousethief 09 Sep 10 - 04:14 PM
Paco O'Barmy 09 Sep 10 - 04:05 PM
Donuel 09 Sep 10 - 03:49 PM
Donuel 09 Sep 10 - 03:48 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Sep 10 - 03:43 PM
mousethief 09 Sep 10 - 03:41 PM
gnu 09 Sep 10 - 03:36 PM
Jack the Sailor 09 Sep 10 - 03:16 PM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Sep 10 - 03:10 PM
gnu 09 Sep 10 - 02:50 PM
Jack the Sailor 09 Sep 10 - 02:47 PM
wysiwyg 09 Sep 10 - 02:38 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Sep 10 - 02:17 PM
Donuel 09 Sep 10 - 02:11 PM
mousethief 09 Sep 10 - 02:06 PM
paula t 09 Sep 10 - 02:01 PM
Donuel 09 Sep 10 - 01:45 PM
mauvepink 09 Sep 10 - 11:59 AM
wysiwyg 09 Sep 10 - 11:13 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Hrothgar
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 02:51 AM

Maybe he's not as silly as he sounds.

I reckon this bloke is on a good little earner here. He will have fruit loops all over the country sending him money, wanting to join his church, etc., etc.

He might even have shares in a company that prints Korans.

... or do I have the wrong approach?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 01:34 AM

Lox, I disagree that this is about book burning.
If an obscure pastor with a tiny congregation in a tiny church burned On The Origin Of Species, it would not be a story because there would be no consequence.
I am sure it has actually happened many times.
This is a story because everyone knows there will be violent consequences.
Do not pretend to believe I meant that all moslems will kill.
I assert that some will, as they did over cartoons in an obscure Danish newspaper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 12:59 AM

if within the next 48 hours this malevolent "Pastor" Jones
is suddenly & mysteriously vaporised by a bolt of lightning

I will seriously re-evaluate my Agnosticism.....


So, what, striking the Touchdown Jesus statue with lightning wasn't good enough for you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: LadyJean
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 12:08 AM

Somebody should remind that Dipstick Jones, that the numero uno sin in the Christian tradition is PRIDE.

He is putting on this display to make himself famous. If that isn't pride, I don't know what is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 11:38 PM

Supposedly Trump lives in Trump Towers in NYC--if he's ever home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 11:30 PM

Oddly enough, nobody in New York City seems to give a damn about the whole mosque issue....I guess it threatens civilization as they know it in DC, Iowa and Alaska.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 11:28 PM

Curiouser and curiouser.

Now it seems Donald Trump was also ready to ride to the rescue and buy out the imam so the "mosque" could be moved to another location.

Or maybe just so he could be in the headlines one more time.

Scholars bicker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 11:24 PM

if within the next 48 hours this malevolent "Pastor" Jones
is suddenly & mysteriously vaporised by a bolt of lightning

I will seriously re-evaluate my Agnosticism.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 11:15 PM

It may not be over.

"Pastor" Jones now says he was "lied to", thought he had a deal with the imam behind the "Ground Zero" mosque--which is not in fact at "Ground Zero", and is in fact more of a YMCA with church (analogy)..   But at any rate, the deal supposedly was that the "mosque" would be moved to another location in exchange for cancelling the Koran burning.

This deal, of course, was in his head, and nowhere else.

So the police and fire department in Gainesville should be ready--just in case the dear "Pastor" gets another vision.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 11:02 PM

did ya hear about the really dumb fanatic redneck pastor
who went nuts in a vegetarian health food store
and set fire to a shelf load of Quorn ..???


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 10:35 PM

Ahhhhhh... If we're gonna burn anything??? Make it "evidence"...

(wink, wink...)

Know what I mean, Vern???


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 09:55 PM

McGrath, thanks for the link; it's good to see what coverage is available through Al Jazeera. I started a music thread based on an article to which your link led me, about West African music.

Emma, for every one of those you can find, there are others who are the opposite including VoteVets an org. of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans.

Fooles, thanks for the link on FB.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:23 PM

"The one good thing that could come from this is that the Muslim people will know that most sensible people - irrespective of race or religion - are against this and have shown so in their comments."

I truly wish this was so but it's not reflected in many of the web sites on line - or maybe the people who contribute to hate speech are not the most 'sensible'? - either way there is a great deal of hatred and lust for revenge out there amongst so called 'Christians'

some comments taking 'a stand against liberals'

"I also think we should have bombed Mecca on 9-12-01, and we should have turned the entire region to glass"

"I am a combat vet and I say we need to stop hiding in corners whenever it concerns the camel screwers. They threaten us all the time all over the world so we have the right to do the same. Fuck them, we will not bow to a pedophile and fake muslim god."

etc etc etc


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:06 PM

Keith, no one should lighten up over such a serious issue as this. Not subscribing to a religion or being critical of it is one thing but book burning is nothing to dismiss as
"light".

Book burning is a serious breach of principle. In the US, we are free to read whatever
we want without it being burnt. This is true with Mein Kampf or the Communist Manifesto,
Rush Limbaugh's or any other book.

Personally, I think more people ought to be familiar with the Qu'ran. This so-called "pastor"
is obviously not.

I may not agree with many books but to burn them is admitting that
they have a kind of power over the minds of the ones with the matches.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:05 PM

Sorry I typed "stupid". Meant to type "brilliant".

Good to hear he's seen reason.

As I said, if he had not, the burning should have been prevented--and he should have been arrested.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:01 PM

Here's Al Jazeera's story about the latest developmentsw - US pastor calls off Quran burning

As I understand it, Al Jazeera'S NEW2S COVERAGE, ON TEH NET AND O


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 07:54 PM

"lighten up".   Whatever you say.

Look, this "pastor"--who as you can see earlier in the thread has been tossed out of the church he headed in Germany because of his bigotry and manipulation -- (possibly also financial 'irregularity')---is basically shouting fire in a crowded theatre. No "free expression" issue here.

And he should be treated accordingly.    No excuses for him--or stupid facile suggestions that Moslems should take it easy. Time to live in the real world.

He's been denied a permit to burn.    Therefore the fire department should show up at his "church"--along with the police.   If he does start to set fire to Korans, the fire department should put it out immediately.    And he should be arrested for violating fire laws, disturbance of the peace, and anything else anybody can think of. He should be billed for all costs. High bond if possible.

It's going to be a media circus, so let the media capture this.   Let the videos which Moslems all over the world see be scenes of the fire department putting out the fire.
And the "pastor" being arrested and taken away. A psychological evaluation also appears appropriate.

If he wants to declare himself a martyr, let him. I think we can live with that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 07:39 PM

The one good thing that could come from this is that the Muslim people will know that most sensible people - irrespective of race or religion - are against this and have shown so in their comments.

The question in my mind is whether most Muslim people will hear about the good side of the story -- the huge outcry and the fact that the guy (apparently) has backed down. Good news doesn't have the legs that bad news does, and ability to get any decent news in some parts of the Arab world, at least, appears to be deficient.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mauvepink
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 07:34 PM

The one good thing that could come from this is that the Muslim people will know that most sensible people - irrespective of race or religion - are against this and have shown so in their comments.

As I said earlier in the thread, the two Muslim people I chatted to yesterday had a good appreciation of the fact that this is not what most people want or that they agree with it. They, like all of us, just hoped it would not happen and that no-one would get injured as an outcome.

mp


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: paula t
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 07:13 PM

Thanks for the people who have taken the trouble to help me with the question I posed earlier.(Sorry about the spelling typo. Just spotted it. I must start wearing my glasses!) I've only just got back home after a rehearsal. I wasn't ignoring you.

At least it looks as though he might back down. I think he has perhaps realised it's not such a good career move as he had originally thought!


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 06:49 PM

Seems to me to fall under Oliver Wendell Holmes' classic statement on freedom of speech....Free speech doesn't give you the right to shout "Fire" in a crowded theater. Glad he seems to be backing down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Lox
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 06:29 PM

"FWIW, at the moment Jones says he has cancelled the burning project because the imam has cancelled the "Ground Zero" project in its planned location."


In other words ... the right wing in America says ... get your greasy Moslem hands off our land or we'll begin a capaign of hatred and intimidation all over America and our media will draw disproportionate attention to it until you back down.



I say change the plans ... don't build the community centre ... build a fucking Mosque and stick a louspeaker on the minaret to call the faithful to prayer 7 times a day!

Prayers can be said for all the Moslems who were in the towers and surrounding area when they fell as an act of remembrance for the innocent victims of terror.

And prayers can be said for people like Keith who have no fucking idea how Most Moslems think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 06:17 PM

From Fox News online:

President Obama added his condemnation in an interview that aired earlier Thursday, urging Jones to "listen to those better angels" and call off the protest. He called the plan a "stunt" and a "recruitment bonanza for Al Qaeda," warning that it could lead to "serious violence" in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"I just hope he understands that what he's proposing to do is completely contrary to our values," Obama said in the ABC interview. "I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women in uniform who are in Iraq, who are in Afghanistan."

FWIW, at the moment Jones says he has cancelled the burning project because the imam has cancelled the "Ground Zero" project in its planned location.

The imam says he did not promise any such thing, only that he is available to talk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Lox
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 06:13 PM

Keith,

Its a bit soon to start blaming Moslems for things that they might or might not do.

The issue here is about Book burning plain and simple.

The context is that of the no ground zero non mosque being built in New York.

The intent is not just the ministers, but the medias to see how much support he might get.

If enough attention is drawn to this and enough of a fuss is brewed up, we may find that there are many people across America who join in, if not on site, then in seperate simultaneous events.

I hope its a damp squib, but I'm angry that this stiry is running.

I'm also angry that you have managed to find a way of blaming, and being pissed off with Moslems for their attitude, when that isn't what initiated this story, but is what this story is intended to initiate.

I am also angry that you are prepared to generalize about how Moslems feel, yet have probably not spoken to one single Moslem about it, instead probably relying on reports about "how moslems are reacting" - I'd bet fifty quid if the bookies were taking bets!


Keith - the issue isn't how oversensitive moslems are, the issue - as pretty clearly stated in the thread title and in peoples posts - is a man making a statement by burning the Koran.


You have stated "Other religions would just shrug off such an insult.
They will kill people.
That is the real problem."


So in your view, The real problem is that Moslems will kill people.


Sounds like you are very much on the same page as the reverend.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 06:04 PM

The Muslim faith is younger than Christianity by about 600 years. It is typical of large religions that they are more strict and severe in their youth than they are after many centuries of internal debate and re-interpretation of the teachings, not to mention external collision with other cultures. They become more moderate as time goes by.

Now...what was the typical behaviour of Christians 600 years ago? That takes us back to the early 1400's. At that time the Pope commanded all of Christendom and had the power of life and death over people, there were violent pogroms against Jews and other minorities, torture was a standard method of exacting confessions, and people were burned at the stake for heresy, withcraft, and a variety of other accusations by the religious and civil authorities.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:49 PM

Moslems should lighten up and not kill people because of one twat.

True. But since it's not going to happen this week or next, kind of irrelevant. Christians less than 500 years ago were killing one another because of their interpretations of the Bible. Muslims are still catching up with us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:24 PM

Lox, I do not despise anyone.
I aspire to be Christian.
I accept that many think it OK to lampoon us.
Jerry Springer The Opera. Life of Brian.
Many Moslems seem to think that any slur on them entitles them to kill people.
The cartoons. Rushdie's books.
That is a problem.
This pastor is no one.
If he was insulting any other religion it would not matter.
The world is full of twats like him.
Moslems should lighten up and not kill people because of one twat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:22 PM

I propose a boycott of ALL media which carries ANY thing which gives this idiot any kind of publicity AND tell the media WHY we are turnign them off on 9/11. Boycott Media Coverage of Koran Burning on FB.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 05:21 PM

Oh, a flaming troll, burning bright.

The media should have ignored the Dove pastor; he is too insignificant to be brought to the forefront of the news. There are hundreds of thousands with faulty wiring in their brains, what's the point in talky-talk about them.
Leave them to the local authorities.

And now pages of Mudcat space wasted talking about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 04:32 PM

Well, do you want a constant supply of oil or not? I know that like me, most of you wouldn't give a flying fuck about Arabia as long as the oil keeps flowing1


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Lox
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 04:25 PM

Keith,

So you do despise Moslems then ...

... or could you really believe that crap you just posted ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 04:14 PM

Or has your compensation/litigation culture finally squeezed all free thinking out of you all?

Huh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 04:05 PM

Good luck to the Pastor. It's time you Yanks got your balls out again. 9/11 today. Or has your compensation/litigation culture finally squeezed all free thinking out of you all?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:49 PM

Gnu, You have an excellent grasp of the big picture.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:48 PM

Extortion plain and simple.

Bigot is a very pointed word that probably applies to Reverend Rearend, but I prefer to call him a ;

Neo-Confederate
Palinesque
Tea Partier
Rush Legionaire
Glen Beckler
fundamentalist fungus
The !/3 of the American PUBLIC THAT IS poorly EDUCATED AND FEARFULLY informed by FOX news.


PS !

Fox news has shown a ticker on the bottom of the screen that has a COUNT DOWN TO KORAN BURNING with a digital clock TICKING down to The second. FOX NEws and Beck are as happy as pigs in shit right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:43 PM

"They will kill people. That is the real problem"
The history of many religions has includes the ruthless removal of opposition to its beliefs and dogmas; Christianity has been well established among the front-runners in this.
The only thing that has changed in the present day has been the removal of the opportunity to follow their basic instincts.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:41 PM

Strintly speaking a translation of the Koran/Qur'an is not a Koran/Qur'an - that term is reserved for the text in the original Arabic. Burning a translation is highly offensive, but it doesn't count as sacrilege, in the way burning a real Koran/Qur'an would be.

Many translations are actually diglotts, with the original text on one page and the English translation on the facing page.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: gnu
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:36 PM

I think the problem is the fear mongering rich who subjugate the poor through divide and conquer for there own greed. But, I've said that before... a thousand times. Waste of breath in the end.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:16 PM

No the real problem is bigots who equate all Muslims with the actions of a few.

Those bigots trying to draw us into a fight combined with the Muslim bigots trying to draw them into a fight. That's the real problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:10 PM

This pastor is a non entity and a fool.
All countries and populations have many such.
He only matters because he is going to offend moslems.
Other religions would just shrug off such an insult.
They will kill people.
That is the real problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: gnu
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 02:50 PM

The idiot said on a Canuck radio program today he might call it off. Maybe he is rethinking God's protection and blessing on this one?


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 02:47 PM

Ebbie,

It looks like you are correct, sorry Bobert. It was the news of his wife's passing I remembered.

In any case, my point stands.

Pat Robertson might be expected to directly condemn the behavior of other preachers. "Sinless" Pat is always quick to cast the first couple of stones. But based on my experience with either of them, I would not expect such behavior from Graham or Stanley.


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Subject: US Church History in OPne Post
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 02:38 PM

I'm rather ignorant about this. Is there no official head of that particular church in the States? I don't understand why no-one else from that denomination has raised their head above the papapet and told them to think again.I can't see the Archbishop of Canterbury allowing something like this to go unchallenged. How does it work

After 1776, many denominations here in the US formed as offshoots of denoms with authority structures in place, and then as generations of these splits have occurred since then there has been more and more rebellious, "I have a minister's degree" soapboxing.


OK, LOL-- that summarizes several hundred years of US church history rather cavalierly, but imagine it this way. If the States took their independence from colonial rule as they did-- but then imagine if every city in every state had then formed its own sovereign home-rule gummint, and was allowed to do so. Result: crapshoot. Think our Civil War was weird? Multiply it in the religion arena and there we are today.

PM for further discussion.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 02:17 PM

Strintly speaking a translation of the Koran/Qur'an is not a Koran/Qur'an - that term is reserved for the text in the original Arabic. Burning a translation is highly offensive, but it doesn't count as sacrilege, in the way burning a real Koran/Qur'an would be.

It's a bit analogous to the difference between burning a copy of the Old Testament and burning a synagogue's Torah Scroll.

However I doubt that angry Muslims around the world are too likely to be making that kind of distinction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 02:11 PM

He looks like a civil war babtist leutenent but looks can be deceiving.
HE might be Viking or French.

Anyway if its called off, there may some good to be learned by those who need "learnin".


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 02:06 PM

Paula_t: I believe they're a denomination of one. Heck of a lot of independent churches in the US that answer to no-one except their own pastor (not even God, it would seem).


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: paula t
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 02:01 PM

I'm rather ignorant about this. Is there no official head of that particular church in the States? I don't understand why no-one else from that denomination has raised their head above the papapet and told them to think again.I can't see the Archbishop of Canterbury allowing something like this to go unchallenged. How does it workL


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 01:45 PM

It looks like the State department is going to call on Pastor Joe Geek of the Gainesville Florida NeoConfederacy church of JEsus Christ Almighty.

There will be a statement after the call is made


The tea party intolerence has already spawned copy cat book burners.
There seems to be a Koran shortage. Is Amazon is selling out of Korans?
In a pinch a book named 'Corwin' will do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: mauvepink
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 11:59 AM

"You know, if the media all ignored him this would be a non-story, which it actually is."

In many ways I agree. BUT... it's the possible aftermath of his actions, the consequences of what he does, that will not be a non-story if they come about.

Now he must know by now what he is entering into? He cannot be unaware now that his actions risk a great deal and that it is quite un-Christian to do as he proposes?

People have been imprisoned by America without due process where it has been levied that many lives could be at stake. I am not for people being imprisoned without due regard to their rights so maybe they could place this man in 'safe custody' until after the date has passed? Could there not be an argument that to do as he proposes is so dangerous, and to be aware of the potential harm to even himself, then perhaps mental health laws could be invoked? To deliberately do what he suggests has to be down to some mental health issue or as a deliberate incitement to cause harm to others?

There has to be some hope he can be stopped? Or, maybe, Muslims could turn a blind eye to his attempts to cause such offence and hatred? If they could make a statement that they will ignore his actions then he has nothing at all to gain?

I know... I am living in dream land, but one has to hope that common sense prevails somewhere and that this man does not go through with it

mp


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Subject: RE: BS: Burning Korans
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 11:13 AM

Hain't read all this thread but in case anyone wondered, things to do about all this are going around in Christian circles and action occurring.... such as people traveling long distances to sit vigil shifts overnight 9/11 at mosques, with cell phones ready to get help to stop "crystalnacht" imitators and send a message of support to Muslim friends.

~S~


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Mudcat time: 21 April 4:17 PM EDT

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