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BS: Motocycle advise

Raptor 18 Jun 10 - 04:26 PM
bobad 18 Jun 10 - 04:31 PM
John MacKenzie 18 Jun 10 - 04:34 PM
Amos 18 Jun 10 - 04:43 PM
gnu 18 Jun 10 - 05:06 PM
Bill D 18 Jun 10 - 06:02 PM
catspaw49 18 Jun 10 - 06:16 PM
gnu 18 Jun 10 - 06:54 PM
Leadfingers 18 Jun 10 - 07:54 PM
Paul Burke 18 Jun 10 - 09:28 PM
GUEST,erbert 18 Jun 10 - 10:14 PM
Desert Dancer 18 Jun 10 - 10:28 PM
GUEST,appearance 18 Jun 10 - 11:27 PM
Dave the Gnome 19 Jun 10 - 04:41 AM
Arnie 19 Jun 10 - 06:01 AM
Zen 19 Jun 10 - 06:54 AM
Zen 19 Jun 10 - 06:56 AM
GUEST,Joybringer 19 Jun 10 - 07:08 AM
GUEST,erbert 19 Jun 10 - 08:47 AM
GUEST,hg 19 Jun 10 - 09:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 19 Jun 10 - 10:39 AM
vectis 19 Jun 10 - 04:36 PM
Mr Happy 19 Jun 10 - 04:55 PM
3refs 19 Jun 10 - 04:59 PM
robomatic 19 Jun 10 - 06:52 PM
GUEST,kendall 19 Jun 10 - 06:59 PM
gnu 19 Jun 10 - 08:27 PM
catspaw49 19 Jun 10 - 09:04 PM
Liz the Squeak 20 Jun 10 - 01:52 AM
Darowyn 20 Jun 10 - 05:10 AM
Raptor 20 Jun 10 - 09:13 AM
Bernard 20 Jun 10 - 01:20 PM
Phot 20 Jun 10 - 03:57 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Jun 10 - 04:40 AM
GUEST,Joybringer 21 Jun 10 - 05:12 AM
bubblyrat 21 Jun 10 - 05:47 AM
GUEST,kendall 21 Jun 10 - 07:16 AM
number 6 21 Jun 10 - 09:19 AM
GUEST,kendall 22 Jun 10 - 07:41 AM
GUEST,Riginslinger 22 Jun 10 - 09:14 AM
catspaw49 22 Jun 10 - 09:40 AM
Richard Bridge 22 Jun 10 - 05:06 PM
Rusty Dobro 23 Jun 10 - 08:37 AM
Riginslinger 23 Jun 10 - 05:16 PM
Richard Bridge 23 Jun 10 - 05:57 PM
Riginslinger 23 Jun 10 - 06:54 PM
Richard Bridge 24 Jun 10 - 04:15 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 24 Jun 10 - 05:17 AM
GUEST,LTS pretending to work 24 Jun 10 - 07:20 AM
GUEST,Riginslinger 24 Jun 10 - 08:00 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 24 Jun 10 - 08:31 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 24 Jun 10 - 08:36 AM
GUEST,erbert 24 Jun 10 - 08:48 AM
GUEST,erbert 24 Jun 10 - 08:53 AM
Riginslinger 24 Jun 10 - 04:39 PM
Darowyn 25 Jun 10 - 03:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jun 10 - 03:48 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jun 10 - 03:51 AM
GUEST,Riginslinger 25 Jun 10 - 08:04 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Jun 10 - 08:30 AM
catspaw49 25 Jun 10 - 09:30 AM
Raptor 26 Jun 10 - 06:10 AM
GUEST,Riginslinger 26 Jun 10 - 08:48 AM
catspaw49 26 Jun 10 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,Riginslinger 26 Jun 10 - 07:57 PM
Raptor 27 Jun 10 - 07:26 PM
Richard Bridge 04 Jul 10 - 10:05 AM
GUEST,number 6 04 Jul 10 - 10:41 AM
Ebbie 04 Jul 10 - 03:22 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 04 Jul 10 - 03:29 PM
gnu 04 Jul 10 - 04:12 PM
Richard Bridge 04 Jul 10 - 05:47 PM
Ebbie 04 Jul 10 - 06:27 PM
Guy Wolff 04 Jul 10 - 08:07 PM
Amos 04 Jul 10 - 08:27 PM
GUEST,Riginslinger 04 Jul 10 - 09:30 PM
Richard Bridge 05 Jul 10 - 04:22 AM
GUEST,Riginslinger 05 Jul 10 - 08:48 AM
Raptor 05 Jul 10 - 08:56 AM
Mr Red 05 Jul 10 - 10:48 AM
Ebbie 05 Jul 10 - 12:10 PM
GUEST,Riginslinger 05 Jul 10 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,number 6 05 Jul 10 - 12:51 PM
Ebbie 05 Jul 10 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,number 6 05 Jul 10 - 01:19 PM
Richard Bridge 05 Jul 10 - 07:42 PM
GUEST,Riginslinger 05 Jul 10 - 08:02 PM
catspaw49 05 Jul 10 - 08:16 PM
GUEST,erbert 05 Jul 10 - 08:48 PM
Richard Bridge 05 Jul 10 - 09:48 PM
GUEST,number 6 06 Jul 10 - 12:16 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Jul 10 - 05:28 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 06 Jul 10 - 07:47 AM
Raptor 06 Jul 10 - 08:04 AM
GUEST,number 6 06 Jul 10 - 08:28 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 06 Jul 10 - 08:35 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Jul 10 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,Riginslinger 06 Jul 10 - 08:46 AM
Richard Bridge 06 Jul 10 - 09:56 AM
Richard Bridge 06 Jul 10 - 09:58 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 06 Jul 10 - 04:03 PM
Richard Bridge 06 Jul 10 - 05:48 PM
Guy Wolff 06 Jul 10 - 08:44 PM
Raptor 07 Jul 10 - 09:03 AM
GUEST,number 6 07 Jul 10 - 09:01 PM
Richard Bridge 07 Jul 10 - 09:03 PM
GUEST,number 6 07 Jul 10 - 09:11 PM
Guy Wolff 07 Jul 10 - 09:13 PM
GUEST,Riginslinger 08 Jul 10 - 09:39 PM
Richard Bridge 09 Jul 10 - 06:32 AM
GUEST,Riginslinger 09 Jul 10 - 07:07 AM
Old Vermin 09 Jul 10 - 07:16 PM
GUEST,Riginslinger 09 Jul 10 - 10:22 PM
Old Vermin 10 Jul 10 - 06:37 AM
GUEST,Riginslinger 10 Jul 10 - 07:43 AM
Raptor 03 Nov 12 - 03:14 AM
Henry Krinkle 03 Nov 12 - 04:37 AM
JohnInKansas 03 Nov 12 - 08:07 AM
gnu 03 Nov 12 - 08:14 PM
Henry Krinkle 04 Nov 12 - 07:52 AM
maeve 04 Nov 12 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,Jon Dudley 05 Nov 12 - 07:01 AM
Henry Krinkle 05 Nov 12 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,Jon Dudley 05 Nov 12 - 10:35 AM
Raptor 06 Nov 12 - 06:52 AM
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Subject: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Raptor
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:26 PM

I just got a learners licence and I'm signed up for a riding course. I want to buy a Harley but have been told it's a bad choice for a first bike (1200 sportster) I've not acualy rode anything yet.
I do like the BMW F800ST?

Any thoughts?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:31 PM

I'd go for a Vespa if I were you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:34 PM

Big bikes are not ideal for learning, Go for something lighter, you'll find it easier to balance, and manoueuvre.
Then when you get you bike licence, think about a bigger bike, you can always use your learner bike as a trade-in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 04:43 PM

Until you really get your motorcycle legs go for something on the order of 400cc. Learn the rhytm and the rhyme of the road on two wheels and how to deal with conditions. Besides, you don't want to take your first slide-out on a $20,000 bike... Seriously, work your skills up on a gradient and you'll be a lot safer.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 05:06 PM

Yup... small bike to start... get your license. And, the smaller the better.

Better yet, don't get a bike. They only have two wheels and they don't have shelter from the elements. They are inherently unsafe. The only way I would own one again is to save fuel running aboutst but that is dangerous... in many ways.

BTW... a 1200 Hog? Jaysus! Unless you are touring, that's way too much bike. If you wanna save fuel, get a wee car.

Oh... BTW... big Hog... not necessarily safe unless you have experience biking. A buddy of mine, on his first run, dumped a $22k Hog in a heavy wind passing a semi. Ya gotta have the experience no matter what the bike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:02 PM

A friend of MINE, who rode a Harley Sportster which was souped up and 'barely' street-legal and did things like jumping hills with it, was going home from work late one night. He stopped at a stop sign and a truck behind him didn't. He was 22.

Guess how MY advice goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:16 PM

Half a million miles on bikes and my best advice is take it easy and learn how to ride. When I started there wasn't any licensing let alone training. Traffic accidents happen to all of us who ride but most serious injuries happen in the first year. That is when you are most likely to injure or kill yourself or somebody else.........

Yeah.....someone else. Not often thought about when you think of a motorcycle but my friend Denny lost his 9 year old son to a new motorcyclist who lost control.........

Find a good riders course and take it then spend some serious time in a parking lot getting down the coordination of the mechanics of starting and stopping.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:54 PM

Spaw... ``parking lot``

Yup. Parking lot. And, with my first bike, I used to go out at dawn and ride the streets when there was no traffic.

I actually did what I said not to do. I started on a fairly big bike.

But, the day I dumped that KH500 Kow on a curve at 115mph because of a bit of gravel from a side road, I thought `time to sell it`. Oh, it was pretty, according to my buds... me riding it with one hand on the handle bar and both feet on the oil tank and sparks flying. But, it wasn`t so pretty when I hit the grass. One of my two `Superman` moments on bikes.... I fly well but I don`t land nearly as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 07:54 PM

Starting a on BIG Bike is NOT a good idea ! Though I started on a 650 twin BSA , but it DID have a sidecar so was at east a lot more stable than just two wheels !
Bear in mind that on two wheels you are the most vulnerable item on the road ! Susceptible to other Idiots AND dodgy road surfaces !


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 09:28 PM

Get a 125- maybe a BSA Bantam or lefthanded equivalent. Ride it round till it feels natural (three weeks or so). Then take it out in traffic, and repeat the process until you are absolutely in control.

Then get your big bike, remembering that it's like a small bike but can kill you and everyone else just as dead, perhaps even for the rest of your life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 10:14 PM

When I worked in a hospital, most young male patients in the amputee ward
were motorcyclists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 10:28 PM

Tucson musicians just had a wonderful fundraising event for one who is now in the same chair as Christopher Reeves was, from a motorcycle crash (relatively low speed, in town). (C2 fracture, paraplegic, respirator required)

Stop and reconsider.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,appearance
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 11:27 PM

As my cousin (an ex-Hells Angels)says "if your smart, you'd get a Japanese bike. Better quality, more realiable and cheaper than a Harley"


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 04:41 AM

If you like the Harley or cruiser style but want a small bike to start with I don't think you can go far wrong with the HyoSung GV250EFI The finish is not the best apparantly but for the price it seems a good bike. I have my eye on the 650 Harley V-Rod lookalike. Motor Cycle News rate it as one of the best handling cruisers they have ever come across. The link I posted is the UK version but as HyoSung is Korean I guess you can get them in the states?

DeG
Everything from a Lambretta GT200 to a Triumph T110 Chopper
Last bike - Honda CV500 Custom - No room for one just at the moment and strictly a fair weather biker now :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Arnie
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 06:01 AM

When I passed my big bike test a decade ago, I bought a 900cc Diversion, but found it a bit top-heavy and not too easy to handle at low speeds. I swapped it for a 600cc Yamaha Fazer and this really is a great bike for novices and experienced riders alike. It has half-fairing so is ok on the M-ways but is also light and easy to handle around town or country roads. Bikes of 125cc & 250cc etc are very unstable when you turn round to look behind you (an important safety technique) as the whole bike tends to wobble. You are better off starting at 600cc which give a nice stable platform from which to observe the motoring world around you. I had to get rid of my bike due to ill-health and haven't yet replaced it yet - I really do miss it and never had a spill despite all the doomsayers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Zen
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 06:54 AM

I have 42 years continuous bike riding... fortunately, so far, without any spills except once at 0 miles per hour when I forgot to remove my disc lock when setting off (yes, even experienced riders have their moments!).

Maxim: There are old riders and bold riders but no old, bold riders.

What Spaw said is good advice. Learn the basics about control and handling gently and on a bike that you can control easily (the limit here in the UK for a learner was 250cc when I started and my first two bikes were 250s). A 1200 Harley is something to respect and definitely not something to graduate to before you know the basics.

Around 8 out of 10 bike accidents are caused by other road users (sorry, didn't see the bike guv) so anticipating what other road users are going to do is a large part of the skill of riding. Good protection is also important (helmet, leathers or kevlar clothing, joint protection).

I don't agree with gnu that a bike is inherently unsafe. Like Spaw I've ridden a good half a million miles without any accident but good training, practice, bike sense and riding within your capabilities and limits is absolutely essential.

Zen


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Zen
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 06:56 AM

P.S. I've ridden many types and sizes of bikes. Last three years I've been riding a Moto Guzzi 750 which I find a good balance of power and handling.

Zen


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Joybringer
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 07:08 AM

Don´t go Harley unless you favour driving a tractor. They are a bone shaking noise box. Go either Honda or BMW, either will run forever in comfort and you get to keep your teeth fillings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 08:47 AM

Is it true that in the UK at least, the current highest casualty rate
amongst learner and newly qualifed bikers
is affluent middle aged men indulging their mid life crisis with over powered
super bikes ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 09:17 AM

Be sure and increase your life insurance. Your wife will need it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 10:39 AM

Not sure if I fully agree about all small bikes being unstable while bigger ones are not - The principle is sound but when I moved from my 200cc Lambretta scooter to a chopped 650 triumph back in 1971 or 2 I noticed a distinct difference in stabilty - The Triumph would fall over, back-flip and skid at the drop of a hat! I think the weight, centre of gravity and general balance are more important. The engine size needs to be enough to puh it out of trouble but a modern 250 will out-perform any of my 70's bikes apart from, maybe, the Honda CB450.

As to all those urging a change of mind. Yes, OK, it's a bit more dangerous than walking down the street or cycling or roller skating. But with the right training and approach it is not considerably so. Stick to it, Raptor.

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: vectis
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 04:36 PM

Don't buy a Harley, great in straight lines but killers in corners.
Start small and when you have the knack of knowing which way to twist the throttle in an emergency (the throttle works both ways principle) and only then, move on to a real bike.
THAT MEANS EUROPEAN if you want to make it round bends safely.

I had a Guzzi 850 tourer until my larger half wiped it out when a twat did a U turn in front of him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 04:55 PM

What's a motocycle?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: 3refs
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 04:59 PM

By the Harley, but put it up and grab yourself something small to learn on. Head for the bush and learn how to fall off! The best advise I could give you is consciously stay out of cars blind spots!

I've owned lots of bikes over the years. I learned to ride on a 1967 150 Suzuki, my brothers. Then he got a old Harley 45. Then we both owned a bunch more Harleys. I just got rid of my last bike, a 1979 Kawasaki 750 LTD, I traded a 1980 Trans Am for it(gave it to my son-in-law....and I do like him). Brother rides nothing but Beemers now. Vancouver will do that to you. His finest ride was a 1957 Vincent Black Shadow and if he owned it today, it would be worth about $100,000. One of the fastest bikes I've ever been on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 06:52 PM

Raptor:

I would buy a medium not a small bike. They are safer, more stable in the wind and rain, accelerate you out of trouble and are a lot closer to handling like the monster you think you want right now.

I started on my bike of choice, a 750cc BMW. It was solid but no Ninja, stable as a flat rock, and that probably saved my life when I was touring.

Plus bigger bikes have wider tires and that gives you better purchase on the roads.

Later on I bought a 125cc Honda and it was my already gained big bike experience which helped me to handle the skittery little thing.

Another recommendation- In my part of the world, automobiles didn't give you a lot of 'respect' even when they could see you. I learned to stay away from 'em. And that was before cell phones and texting.

I would either require at purchase or invest after purchase in some LOUD horns. That got me a minimum of respect in Massachusetts.

Good Luck. Have Fun. Keep the rubber side down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 06:59 PM

There are two kinds of motorcycle riders. Those who have put one down and those who are going to put one down.

One trip into a rock pile caused by an idiot taking his side of the road out of the middle cured me of bikes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 08:27 PM

Indeed Kendall. When I came home with my first bike, my old man said, "Boy, I hope you don't learn the hard way just how stupid a thing you just did."

He was right.

If you do get a bike, keep the lights on all the time and blow the horn a lot when you are approaching intersections. As robo said... "automobiles didn't give you a lot of 'respect' even when they could see you"... and they often DON'T see you. Seriously, they don't "see" you.

Zen... sorry, but two wheels is only better than one wheel. Now, your mileage may vary, but your mileage has been lucky. Round here, the drivers are poorly trained, poorly licensed, smoking, drinking coffee, talking on the cell... you get the pic. I'd rather be on foot here.

But, when a nice bike rolls by, I wish I was on it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jun 10 - 09:04 PM

While I worry over new riders, I wouldn't argue against bikes for love nor money. Like other personal activities it is hard to explain why some love it and others do not. There is certainly no changing anyone's mind about it though. When it comes to road bikes, Kendall makes an old and popular view........and I've been down a few times myself. But when you really love something......................

It's early evening on pleasant summer day. The temperature has brought the humidity to a less noticeable level and there is this great place about 50 miles away where they have something great to eat. There are several ways to get there but two are a lot more fun to ride so you throw a leg over and turn the key. If you're an old fart you remember what a pain in the ass it was to kick start big bore bikes.

When I was 15 I bought my first, a BSA 250, sort of a mini thumper but it lasted only a month or so. I had to have something a lot bigger!   The only folks who rode Harleys were outlaws and cops. Big Japanese bikes were still a few years in the future so if you wanted a fun and pwerful ride it was a Brit. I think I'd been riding only 6 weeks or so when I took every cent I had and bought a Triumph Bonneville. I brought it home and although I had successfully kept this activity from my parents, my Dad found out and so I brought the Bonnie home to live in the garage instead of at a friend's house. The Old Man knew it was hopeless and as I was otherwise a pretty good kid, he looked at it sitting there and said, "Boy, I'd just as soon you bought yourself a coffin." That was about it.....well spoken and clear......and he never said another word on the matter.

I had a series of Brits til 1970 when I was so frustrated with the damn things I was ready to fly to England and kill Joe Lucas, whoever ta' hell he was. There was also no resisting the Honda 750. It changed the face of motorcycling completely and it also started my love affair with the big bore riceburners. It culminated in 1985 when I bought the bike I still have. Its a Honda Sabre 65, 1100 V-4 and probably the best example of what the Triumphs and BSAs wanted and strived to be, but never were. Smooth, fast, powerful, and reliable with good handling and good looks to boot. But we were about to take a ride weren't we?

You turn the key and hit the starter and as the engine warms you strap on your helmet, pull on some gloves, and decide which way you're going. Leaving your house you take it easy but as you reach the highway you wick it up and appreciate the acceleration. There is no way to explain the feeling of riding a bike that will exceed every speed limit in first gear. For the next 50 miles you ride and enjoy the feeling as the sweeping turns lead to tight esses and a short straight stretch follow an off camber turn to the left. Its a nice road with fun riding and enough of it qualifies as a "proficiency run" to give you the rush that a bike can bring.

Maybe you arrive and find your spot closed, but it doesn't matter. You didn't come for the food.....it was all about the ride. So pull into that little drive-in you've seen so many times and try out their onion rings while you relax, leaning on the bike and remembering all the other joints you discovered just by accidents on other nights like this. Maybe you remember the nice folks who had a bonfire going a cold fall night and stopping to get warm.....and they gave you coffee and conversation and flaming marshmallows. You don't make those stops with a car.

Riding home on a less challenging route you enjoy the added smoothness and power the moist night air adds. Its amazing how much difference you can tell on a bike....things you rarely notice in a car.When you get home you take a few minutes just to sit on the bike in the garage. I don't know why. I gues there is a certain communion between a bike and rider that makes you know that machinery has a soul. They do you know..................really.

Raptor, I hope you decide buy a bike and hope you take all the proper lessons and courses which are available now. I admit that I worry about the middle-aged newbie but if you can have a few nights like the one above or thousands of others from broiling sun to 20 below, life is just a bit more worthwhile.



Spaw

btw, get a 750....big enough to be both fun and stable and not making you want to trade soon. Much smaller and you lack some of the kick to be truthful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 01:52 AM

Oh Spaw... you put into words everything I couldn't about what it feels to be a biker... I've not been on one for 3 years now, and by all the deities, I miss it!

Rap - Start small to medium, work up. Much as I love watching them, don't start with a Harley... Riding needs to be second nature to work one of those buggers. I barely got across the car park on the one I tried.

Oh, and never ever, EVER ride in anything less than long sleeved leather or kevlar and proper solid boots. Even a gentle drop at 4mph can take the skin off your arm and crush poorly supported feet.

Meanwhile, if anyone in or near London wants to give a deprived bikerchick a treat, I have my own lid!

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Darowyn
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 05:10 AM

This world is full of people who, when they see that I ride a Motorbike, will tell me,
"I had one of those and they are bloody dangerous. I fell off it."
What they are really saying is that they never actually learned to ride safely.
I have had a bike as my main transport for over 45 years.
I've ridden hundreds of thousands of miles on the road, trained hundreds of learner riders, (and apprentice bike mechanics) and raced on the circuits at up to international level.
It doesn't mean that I'm immortal, or immune to some blind, or drunk, or drug crazed idiot in a four-wheeler. But it does mean that I have learned a few skills in spotting and avoiding hazards, and acquired a respectable level of machine control.
So here's my advice.
Harleys are for looking at, not riding. Buy a picture of one. You'll save money and unhappiness. You could not pick a less enjoyable form of transport.
A middle weight bike will still feel very heavy until you are used to it, but they do have more stability and inspire more confidence than, for example a small wheeled scooter or a 125cc bike.
I would recommend a basic naked bike, one of the twin cylinder Japanese bikes around 500 to 600cc.
Chopper style cruisers are hard to handle at low speed, on corners, over bumps, and pretty much everywhere else.
Race replicas, and sportsbikes can be very uncomfortable for larger or more mature riders- probably why they do so few miles on them that they never actually learn how to ride! (Hence the high accident rate)
Trail Bike / Adventure off roaders, as long as they have good road tyres, are excellent for both city riding and back roads, but not so good on Motorways and Highways (Why would you ride a bike on those roads anyway?)
Lastly and most important.
GET SOME PROPER TRAINING. GET SOME PROPER PROTECTIVE GEAR, AND USE IT.
Cheers
Dave
(just working out my route for this years National Motorcycle Rally.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Raptor
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 09:13 AM

I promise I'll get the gear and I'm already in the motocycle course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 01:20 PM

I only ever had three minor spills, all caused by someone else 'not seeing me'...

I lived to tell the tale, but others do not.

You can learn bike control on a 125cc, but the problem is it doesn't have the power to pull you out of trouble.

On the up side, it probably doesn't push you into trouble quite so readily, and you're more likely to think about what you're doing and drive defensibly, which is how everyone should drive, whether on two or more wheels.

You have to accept the biggest danger is coming from other road users who think they have every right to expect to get from one place to another as quickly as their chosen vehicle will take them - and I find that twenty-something young women are the most self-centred in that respect these days.

Just an observation based upon experience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Phot
Date: 20 Jun 10 - 03:57 PM

Hey Rap, just get out there and enjoy it! I can only re-iterate about the training and leathers, going down the road on your ass isn't fun, gravel rash hurts like hell, and remember that ashpalt will grind through bone and skin at the rate of 4 inches a second!

I suppose I didn't take the most sensible approach to bikes, I got a Honda CG 125 (12hp, single cylinder, drum brakes flat out at 60) 42 days later I passed my test, the following day I made a really daft move, I called in at Bridge motercycles in Exeter while out for a ride and totally on a whim bought a bigger bike (Well it was a looker!), a Kawasaki ZXR 750 J1, pretty much a full race machine, 125hp, twin 320mm front discs, and a top end in excess of 150! My argument was the throttle went both ways, but in hindsight a bit of a daft idea.

Just ride to your ability, if you feel out of your comfort zone, back off and live to ride another day, don't try to keep up with the quick guys until you know what your bike and you are capable of.

The last bike I had was a Triumph T595 Daytona (955cc) with a full factory race exhaust and re-mapped ignition to suit, result, 0-60 in less than 3 seconds, and a top end of around 180.

I don't ride anymore due to shot knees, wrists, and hands, but if I could I would probably have another Daytona!

Wassail, and keep it shiney side up! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 04:40 AM

Anyone any views on the new breed of big scooters? More like bikes really with the power and larger and fatter wheels but with the protection of a scooter. I must admit a certain anti feeling for them just based on looks but all the reviews seem to rave about them -

650 Suzuiki Burgman

For instance.

The head says it is a good one but the heart says - nah.

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Joybringer
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 05:12 AM

Anyone how rode a real motorcycle would find it hard to sit on a scooter no matter what cc. Im now back on a R100RT BMW, It shakes a little more than the R80RT which is why the police favoured the 80 for many years.

Had a GL1500 Goldwing for eleven years,


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: bubblyrat
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 05:47 AM

Early 1960s, those were the days in Britain ! Every young man wanted a bike,and there were LOADS to choose from ; BSA...AJS...Royal Enfield...Francis Barnett....Triumph...James...Ambassador....Velocette...and one got a glimpse of the odd Vincent !
             I had an Ambassador 200 ( no rear suspension,just enormous springs under the saddle !) , then a sedate but trusty BSA C11G 250.A lot of people favoured the Triumph Tiger Cub. In later life,I used small stuff to get to work on...Suzuki, then a shaft-drive Yamaha.
                   Have fun, drive carefully, and READ THE ROAD AHEAD !! ( best advice any Policeman ever gave me !).


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 07:16 AM

I see Harley riders all the time, half bare assed and no brain bucket. Their IQ must hover right around room temperature.
At the same time, I see Honda and Suzuki riders dressed in leathers with a helmet. Any conclusions?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: number 6
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 09:19 AM

Last evening I witnessed a big Harley Davidson lose control, spin off the road and hit a young girl walking along the sidewalk, killing her. The Harley guy was ok.

It was extremely disturbing. The Harley guy was more concerned about his bike, in fact picked it up, checking it over for the damage. He never did acknowledge the young girl lying on the sidewalk.

I'm very shaken up and angry over this.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 07:41 AM

I hope you have the balls to appear as a witness for the prosecution! That's depraved indifference if I ever saw it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 09:14 AM

Harleys have a low center of gravity and are really easy to ride. Buy the Harley, let out the clutch and twist the throttle open. You'll never want to ride anything else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 09:40 AM

That's because the Harley will have been such a pain in the ass that you'll quit motorcycling before you give it a real chance on a good bike..............

Sorry Bill......Was the guy a jerk or perhaps in shock himself? I once saw a guy whose wife was killed in the seat beside him walking/pacing around the car talking about the damage. The mind can takes you elsewhere when the truth is too painful.   


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 05:06 PM

I am thinking about getting a bike again - but there is no accelerated access for people who never got a licence (!) and that would mean I had to ride a 125 while I did the "CBT" (honestly, it's really called that) and then once I passed my test I could go directly to a 400. Oh mother is it worth it?

Maybe a restricted chair? What falls within L-limits for that?

I also worry if I could ever get used to a left-foot gearchange


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 08:37 AM

What about a nice '52 Vincent Black Lightning? I have it on good authority that a girl could feel special on any such-like.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 05:16 PM

Richard, if you Google Royal Enfield you will see that the old thumpers are being made in India and imported to the US. I don't know about the UK, but that would be a classy 400.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 05:57 PM

Cheers dude - they're all 500cc so over teh 400 cc limit and left foot gearchange, but they do look good and the cafe racer looks wonderful!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 06:54 PM

Wow, are they that sticky on 100cc's?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 04:15 AM

Actually, no, I mis-read that. It's power not size that counts, but they are just as sticky on power and it is quite pedantic.

The UK basic scheme is that you have to get a provisional licence (and insurance) and do a thing called the CBT before you are allowed to ride anything. Then mostly you are allowed to ride a bike of up to 125 cc with power output up to 11 kw (14.75 bhp) with "L" plates and subject to learner restrictions (no pillions, no motorways, etc). Then you take the theory test and the practical test. If you pass then for the next two years you are restricted to 25kw (33 bhp). THe REs are 28 bhp so would be permissible.

There are two other schemes - the accelerated access scheme and the direct access scheme. They are only available if you are over 21.

Direct access - do CBT and theory test then you may ride (with L-plates and other learner restrictions - and ALSO accompanied at all times by an approved instructor on another bike and in radio contact AND if you wear fluorescent or reflective clothing - any size bike while you practise. Then do your practical test on a bike with MORE than 35kw (47 bhp). If you pass you can ride any size bike.

Accelerated access - first get your basic licence. You can ride big bikes (over 25kw) with L-plates and other learner restrictions - and ALSO accompanied at all times by an approved instructor on another bike and in radio contact AND if you wear fluorescent or reflective clothing - any size bike while you practise for a further test that must be taken on a bike with over 35 kw. If you pass you can ride any size bike (and if you fail you don't use your licence to ride bikes of up to 25 kw.

The 25 kw rule also restricts you to bikes with a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0.16 kW/kg.

If you have (a full UK car licence fit counts as a bike provisional licence but you still have to do a CBT and (I think) theory test before riding anything.

All bikes over 3 years old (from date of manufacture) have to have an MoT certificate of roadworthiness, and of course all bikes have to carry road tax.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 05:17 AM

"I am thinking about getting a bike again - but there is no accelerated access for people who never got a licence (!) and that would mean I had to ride a 125 while I did the "CBT" (honestly, it's really called that) and then once I passed my test I could go directly to a 400. Oh mother is it worth it?"

RB, what's the legislation regards trikes? I was talking to a fella at Knockholt who's just got himself one. I'm guessing you'd be OK to ride straightaway on a car license without the faffing.

There's a couple of bikers that ride trikes round my way, right throaty beasts they are, and they look great fun - though admittedly possibly not *quite* the adrenaline rush of two wheels. And on the plus side, you can go lidless if you like.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 07:20 AM

Re UK licences and bikes

Full car licence = provisional bike licence - you MUST take both CBT and Theory tests before being allowed on the road with L plates.

Trikes count as a 3 wheeled vehicle and can be ridden with full car licence. A helmet is not required but most trikers I know wear one if travelling any distance on larger roads. I'll have to double check but I think if it is over a certain CC you are allowed on motorways on a trike. I have certainly seen (and been overtaken by) trikers on motorways.

Previously you could drive Trikes and other 3 wheeled vehicles (remember the Plastic Pig - forerunner to the Robin Reliant?) on a bike licence, but I have a sneaking suspicion this might have changed recently.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:00 AM

Wow! It sounds like they really don't like motorcycles in the UK. What to they do about folks like the Hell's Angels and the Outlaws?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:31 AM

Aye, so I thought.

Some entertaining custom trikes out there:

Mustang Hmm
http://www.ratraceproductions.com/cryptkeeper-trike-main.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2548/3689574145_e43deac21e.jpg
http://marketing.genesee.edu/images/custom_built_trike.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:36 AM

Oops I suppose no bunch of photos of bikes would be complete without some titty totty draped over it..

Trike with Naked Bird


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:48 AM

what about motorbike and sidecar ?

.. legally defined as 2 or 3 wheeler ?


I found internet ads for a really nice retro looking Russian manufactured bike & sidecar a few years ago
when me and the mrs were considering options for older age travel arrangents..


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:53 AM

probably these..

http://www.ural.cc/index.php?bikes_sidecar


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 04:39 PM

Looks like an old Beemer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Darowyn
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:42 AM

That's because it is a Russian copy of an R50.
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:48 AM

Motorcycle combo was classed as a trike. But that was in the days when you could drive a trike - including a Reliant 3 wheeled car - on a bike licence. No regulations of reverse gears either when I had one in the late 70's / early 80's. Rules and regs have all changed now but I think you can still ride a trike on your provisional - Check it out is the best idea.

Cheers

DeG

BTW - Mine was a 'Supervan III' - just the same as Del Boy's but in Turquoise rather than Yellow. Never did sort out the overheating problem but it was the most efficient engine I ever owned. 700cc 50+ MPG and 70+ MPH. Wonder why they don't start making them again?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:51 AM

Oh - BTW - If anyone is thinking of getting a Russian combo, check out if it has a powered sidecar wheel - If so they cannot be switched over to the left of the bike - Which is a current legal requirement in the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 08:04 AM

Because they drive on the wrong side of the street over there, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 08:30 AM

No, that's YOU, Rig:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 09:30 AM

Does the Russian BMW still have a shovel mount?

As the story goes, originally the Russians in post WWII style took whatever they could and the Germans had a great bike. The Russains never questioned anything about the building plans, they just copied it exactly. So when they brought their version to the mootorcycling world, one magazine reviewed it and wondered what the hell the brackets were for. The Russians had no idea. All they knew was that the German version had them so..............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Raptor
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 06:10 AM

the latest plan is that I'm gonna buy the Harley Sportster 883 for my girlfriend and ride it for a year then buy one of the bigger ones for me. What do you think?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 08:48 AM

Sounds like a great idea to me. Those Sportsters are nice little bikes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 01:11 PM

the latest plan is that I'm gonna buy the Harley Sportster 883 for my girlfriend and ride it for a year then buy one of the bigger ones for me. What do you think?

I think you can buy a real image or you can buy a real motorcycle......That said, the Sportster is the ONLY H-D sort of worth the money.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 07:57 PM

And what would you recommend, Spaw?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 07:26 PM

Yeah What?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 10:05 AM

Personally, Raptor, If you are a learner now I think you are pushing your luck to get an H/G 883 Sportster, which by normal standards is a very big powerful bike, without extra training, something like the UK Direct Access courses.

Interestingly, AJS do a 125cc "cruiser" called the Raptor that is legal for learners in the UK to ride.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 10:41 AM

This weekend 5000 bikers converged on the seaside resort town of St. Andrew's N.B. .... A large majority of these bikes of course being Harley davidsons.. Yup, 5000 Harley Davidsons all tuned up to be noisy as Hell ... all screaming "look at me" ... I remember when a harley meant something that was rebelleous, anti society ... now days a Harley T-Shirt will cost you $65, and I bet you those 5000 bikers will be wearing those $65 t-shirts ... along with those t-shirts they will undoubtably be wearing their authentic expensive harley davidson leathers, expensive harley davidson boots, and expensive harley davidson bandanas .... whew, that in itself is enough to make you rebel against all of that .... Geeezuz H .... it would be just as frighteneing if 5000 investment brokers invaded St. Andrews in their beemers and Lacoste golf shirts.

Get a Vespra if you really want to make a statement.

BTW ... that harley biker who ran into that girl above in my post up above ... he got off with failing to negotiate a turn ... it was hardly a turn in the road at all, he just couldn't handle his big toy.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 03:22 PM

I don't think I will ever understand the mindset of the biker who joins a 30-strong group of likeminded people to snort and roar and fart and blat their way looping through the 6 block heart of downtown, sometimes doing it twice before roaring off to parts unknown. They are not sightseeing, they are not visiting anybody, they are not buying anything, they appear to be simply bellowing "Look at me!"

Will anyone here admit to being one of them? If so, can you explain it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 03:29 PM

"can you explain it?"

I'm not one, but my guess is that they do it because it's FUN! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 04:12 PM

I GOTTA tell this one here...

Many moons ago... I got off the ferry to Newfoundland and proceeded up the highway. There were 400 Hell's Angels on the ferry.

I stopped to gas up at a remote gas station up the road a ways as I always did... supprt the local economy, eh b'y? Two bikes pulled in at the same time.

The Newfie, about 5'4" in a doeskin shirt and gum rubbers was splitting wood and came out to pump our gas. His two lads of about 8 years old ran to the bikes and one jumped up on a bike.

These bikers were each over 6' and HUGE. One biker is pissed, points at the kid, points at his colours, and asks, "Don't you know who we are?"

The Newf says, "No b'y. 'ho are yees?"

"Hell's Angels and about 400 of us just got off the boat."

"You know 'ho I is?"

"Who are YOU?"

"Johnny, get off the man's bike... well, I be a Newfoundlander and there's about 600,000 of us on this fookin island. 'ow ere ye gettin off it? Now, d'ya want yer gas er wha?"

The bikers roared with laughter... and gave n an undred dollar tip.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 05:47 PM

Number 6, I think it is a statement that burdensome conventionality does not have universal sway. I rather sympathise with that. Do you remember the relief when the Stetford banality of the 50s gave way to the 60s?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 06:27 PM

Ah. Crow Sister, I think that is one of the places where we part ways. "Because it's fun" smacks too much of the toddler who takes great pleasure in banging pots and pans together.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 08:07 PM

The three first causes of bad to deadly problems on bikes are :

1) Not being ready to react to and or having the skill to get out of the way of people on the roads not noticing you are there . Think of yourself as the soccer ball in the World cup and you dont want to get kicked !!   SKILL SKILL SKILL . Stay away from crowed roads for a long time !!!
2) Not keeping up the bike : preparing for mechanical problems. I lost a friend who changed his own front fork oil . Good brakes good suspension great tires !!! .
3) Physical exhaustion from not waring the proper clothing (leading to problem #1). Get a good rain suite and ware it . Gloves and leathers . ( Roads when they have just gotten wet have a mist of oil on them like no other time... Careful )


Learn how to stop on: sand , oil and ice . Stopping straight Stopping on a curve

Im with Spaw .. A 750 800 is a great size to start with but no bigger .. BMW is Aluminum so the dry weight is lower (480 pounds ??) .. Lots of torque in the little 883 Harley . Learn what that means ..

Riding a bike is dangerous even for someone with 40 years and 500,000 miles . The more you know the safer you will be but there are always moments of split second reactions .. I would have a test on how fast your awarenesses are ..Bikes are like riding on the back of an eagle . It makes no sense to those who haven't done it . It is as exhilarating and as life threatening as flying that eagle . Life is perilous and life is choice .. Blue skys !!!

All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 08:27 PM

Ah, Gnu, that one was a real heart-warmer!!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 04 Jul 10 - 09:30 PM

I guess my earlier comment about the Urals got deleted, but anybody can find it on their web-page.
Here 'tis. -Joe-
    Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
    From: GUEST
    Date: 04 Jul 10 - 09:53 AM

    "If anyone is thinking of getting a Russian combo, check out if it has a powered sidecar wheel - If so they cannot be switched over to the left of the bike - Which is a current legal requirement in the UK."


    This had been nagging at me, so I looked it up. The more expensive models have what they call a "Drive Assist" for the side car. I suspect this works something like the differential lock on a farm tractor, but they dont' give a lot of information.
    I tried to look up a site for the UK, but they don't seperate it from the rest of Europe. I looked up Austrailia, however, and they have the side care on the opposite side from North America, so there's obviously a way to do that.
    Interestingly, in typical Russian fashion, you can buy the motorcycle as a solo, with no sidecar, but it still has a reverse gear--only 4 speeds forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 04:22 AM

I still don't see how anyone can suggest a 750 or 800 cc bike for a beginner!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 08:48 AM

The first motorcycle I ever rode was an 80 cubic inch--approx: 1,333 cc flat-head Indian Chief. It was a handfull, with a three speed transmition on the side of the fuel tank, and a foot operated clutch.
          The first time I came to an intersection, I slowed down to stop at a red light and put my foot down, which took it off the clutch, and I shot on through the intersection. But we lived through it and...
          I'm not sure I see what the size of the engine has to do with it, but we do things differently in the colonies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 08:56 AM

Why do It? (get a Harley)

All my life I wanted to get a Telecaster!

I did it cause I wanted one, not giving a shit how many others have one, I got it cause it's the best guitar in my opinion.I never play it cause i play the Guildsall the time. but I wanted one

Not getting something because everyone has one is just as bad as getting something to be diffrent I do things cause I want to not because of what others will see me as.

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 10:48 AM

learn to skid on an older/small bike.
And learn to read a car driver's intentions.

It is worth noting why car drivers "Didn't see you, PAL".

We all run on about 80% prediction and 20% confirmation.

We know what a road looks like, a quick squint confirms it is concrete, dirt, mettled, or sealed. The same squint tells us there is something there or the road is empty. But through the front door pillar even a small car can look like it is hardly anything which can be interpreted as "insignificant". Yea, yea, given 1 second and more it is all obvious. But as I always maintain, IQ is related to speed. So a quick squint equates to dumbosville. If the car attacks a junction - beware, if you saw it in a car you would beware, on a bike, double that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 12:10 PM

I wasn't intimating in any way that riding a bike isn't fun. I can easily believe that it is exhilarating and comes with a tremendous sense of freedom. A nephew of mine rode around the country with two friends of his and he says it was an experience he will never forget.

My rant was in connection with roaring as loudly as one can through city areas or any other place where you 'want to wake up the people.' I think it is self-revealingly immature, rude and obnoxious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 12:44 PM

Yeah, it is all of those things, but a lot of folks do that in cars too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 12:51 PM

I'm with Ebbie.

there is fun in enjoying the trmrndous freedom which a bike can provide ... I myself will plead guilty in experiencing the exhilaration, and that zen feeling one does have when riding a bike alone down some country road on a bright sunny morning.

But this current trend of bike clubs consisting of middle aged enthusiasts who purposely tune their bikes to be as loud as they can crank them, ascending through streets of some selected populated target en-masse I find shallow, immature and whose soul intend is to draw attention to oneself to display their material gain of owning a Harley Davidson.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 01:08 PM

And they don't even have a clue as to how UNimpressed we are!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 01:19 PM

So true Ebbie !

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 07:42 PM

Ah, no-one listening, as usual.

I will explain again.

The activity of which Ebbie complains is a statement that burdensome conventionality does not have universal sway. I rather sympathise with that. Do you remember the relief when the Stetford banality of the 50s gave way to the 60s?

As far as the middle-aged comfortably off are concerned, it is an attempt to lift their noses from the brown - a lifetime of conformity attempting to achieve. Do you not see why they would wish to cock a snook?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 08:02 PM

Well, I don't know about cockin' none a' them snooks, but I can see why they'd want to make a statement against conformity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 08:16 PM

I suggest a self-cocking snook myself, whatever ta' hell that is.

Go ahead and buy the H-D.....That's what you've wanted all along isn't it? Jsst folks to say buy it? Have fun and all that but unlike the Fender, do not delude yourself that the Harley is the best thing to be had because it just ain't so. It may be all it takes to satisfy you as the image is strong but every Japanese ride can outdo every model across the board.

Have fun whatever you do.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 08:48 PM

My old Dad started off on military surplus motorbikes back in the late 40's/early 50's
when all he had was a factory worker's pay-packet of probably less
than a fiver a week.

Is that still a feasible way to get good quality bikes cheap for beginners ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 09:48 PM

No. Any WWII period 'bike is going to be silly money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 12:16 AM

"but I can see why they'd want to make a statement against conformity"

but's that's just it ... they are conforming to the new middle class values ... it's all about "look at me", their material gains in life, the big expensive harley, the expensive harley apparell ... much like the upper class investment banker in his BMW, or Mercedes and the Lacosta golf shirts on a weekend ride to Newport Rhode Island or Bar harbor Maine.

The days of the biker and his Harley being the symbol of non-conformity and rebelling against the norms of society are long gone ... the Harley has become a big status symbol of the middle aged lower and upper middle class who stick to their pack en-masse on weekend rides ... making as much noise as they can ... all and all so they can be noticed. They are certainly not lifting their noses from the brown, they are lifting their noses to all who don't own a Harley. As Ebbie says, 'and they think we really care'.


biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 05:28 AM

its no different, in fact cut from exactly the same designer dirty worn cloth,
as the embarrassingly trite rebel posturing and quaint anti-social noise making
of the last 30 odd years of the Heavy Metal & Punk culture scene.
All about safety in numbers, and dress code orthadoxies, and 'badboys'n'girls' behavioural conformity..

Understandable amongst 13 year olds coming to terms with life as 'individuals' within a normative peer pressure society
and the myriad lifestyle choices and experiments
available to them to discover..

but somehow a creative deadend and a bit pathetic & sad amongst us over 50's..

...unless, maybe, you're just pissing about with the codes & conventions
and having a self aware laugh at the absurdity of conformist conservative 'prefab' rebel behaviour modes..



ahem....


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486946/


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 07:47 AM

"the Harley has become a big status symbol of the middle aged lower and upper middle class who stick to their pack en-masse on weekend rides"

Most of the bikes we get around here (and we get quite a few because of the bendy country roads and nearby coast) are ridden by disparate groups. Maybe a pair of sports bike enthusiasts taking advantage of the curvy roads here or there. Or perhaps a dozen eclectic bike enthusiasts tearing off for a Sunday jaunt to the coast for some chips and beer. Or even the couple of trikes (I haven't seen them lately) with beefy tattooed geezers wearing WWII helmets.

To be honest, I haven't seen much of the kind of homogeneous group "anti-conformity" conformity described above. And I never have been impressed by Harleys, too flashy for my taste. Personally, I prefer my 'rebels' to be individualists. But I can appreciate the appeal for those who DO get a kick out of big tribal group gatherings. Even if it does only amount to the purchasing of a fantasy persona for the weekend - let 'em have their fun!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Raptor
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:04 AM

I've been watching and there are a lot more sportbikes on the road than crusers. And for the record my tele is louder and more obnoxious than any harley!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:28 AM

The Harley rider of today is a symbol of coporate Amerika, of the 3000 sq ft house with the 3 car garage (oil consumption), of 55 inch tv screens, of someone who supports the war over in the mideast, one who likes marketed mainstream new country music, a supporter of the politikal machine. To me it is a symbol of everything that has gone wrong these days.

That's why I said if you want a bike that is a statement of non-conformity get a Vespa. It's energy efficient, it is quiet, unassuming, it symbolizes individualism, it's not corporate Amerika. Hell, and when your sitting around at home you can get out and play your Chet Baker albums. Now that to me is lifting your nose from the brown.

biLL .... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:35 AM

"one who likes marketed mainstream new country music"

Hmm, I think you won the argument...


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:44 AM

.. and just for the record I've never felt the personal obsession to own a motorbike, or any kind of car;
or even get a tattoo or body piercing..

[.. though i'd love to be able to afford a genuine classic Telecaster !!!]

..but i'm a big heavy mean self-assertive c@nt no motorist should ever risk messing with
when I'm out on my bicycle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:46 AM

There are lots of them around here, mostly with gray beards and Harleys that differ in the sense one will be black with red trim, and the next will be red with black trim. And they stay in groups dressed in Levis and leathers. But to their credit, their women seemed to be fed well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:56 AM

Damn, Rig, that last sentence put me right off.

Sorry, a Vespa can mean one of two things. Either you are a necrophiliac mod wondering whether Roger Daltry is going to die before he gets old, or if it's modern you are unable to aspire to anything that rides better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 09:58 AM

100


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 04:03 PM

Bit of a thread drift, but I wondered about peoples stories of 'adventure biking' around the world?

When I was in my late teens I almost learned to ride purely for the purpose of traveling (I was especially interested in riding across Eastern Europe as the Berlin wall had recently come down.)

At that time I hadn't heard of adventure biking, I just thought the plan sounded really good. But I didn't have a boyfriend at the time, and couldn't get any friends interested in an adventure like that. And I wasn't motivated enough to go for it on my tod, so I didn't.

Seeing Charlie and Ewan a couple of years back however, reminded me that it was a really good idea....

So, anyone fancy sharing their biking travel stories?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 05:48 PM

I brought a BSA Bantam from Nottingham to Kent once, and it had a silly narrow mock racing seat, so by the time I got there I was riding standing up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 06 Jul 10 - 08:44 PM

Haverfordwest to Oxford and back in a day in 1970 was a very long ride on a 650 Bonniville ..I should have gotten that older 1960 R50 BMW the garage near the pottery was selling . Long rides on a 250 BSA Strafire were also memorable !!! Ah memories of riding in Briton as a young person !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Raptor
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:03 AM

I'll say it again to buy something or not to buy something becaue others have one or don't is not what its about!

There is a distint ride a harley gives you that all the japoneese bikes have been unsucessfuly tring to copy for ever. That is why more people ride them than ever before. I want a harley for me not for how it looks.

Its the only engine that purrs!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:01 PM

A Harley doesn't purr ... it coughs and cranks

now this machine purrs

biLL .... |-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:03 PM

A Harley shouts "Potato potato potato potato potato potato..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:11 PM

Good one Richard !!!

biLL   *LOL*


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 07 Jul 10 - 09:13 PM

AH the quiet PUDA PUDA PUDA PUDA of the R69 BMW . A whisper of shear understated confidence !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 08 Jul 10 - 09:39 PM

The last memorable ride I can remember taking was on a 74 cubic-inch Harley Super Glide, on a lonely country road on a late summer evening. I had two girls on the back and a case of beer on the handle bars. We came around a corner--not going very fast--and hit a patch where cars had been dragging round rock out onto the county road from a driveway.
                The bike went sideways, and we all just kind of stepped off. The girls caught a ride with a couple of guys in a car, I had to hire a fellow with a pickup to haul my bike home, and we weren't able to save even one bottle of beer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:32 AM

And the lesson is...


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:07 AM

You can't trust guys who drive cars!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Old Vermin
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 07:16 PM

e.g.
ex-military bikes


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 10:22 PM

Those were interesting, Vermin. I never knew the US used Kawisakis in Vietnam. No wonder they lost the war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Old Vermin
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 06:37 AM

Also see Rotax-engined and other ex-military machines are still to be had

http://www.thexmod.com/item_detail.asp?id=4940&title=Motorbike%20-%20Harley%20Davidson%20MT350

http://www.gunbus.co.uk/bmw-i54.html

etc

I thought about getting a motorcycle licence a couple of years ago.
Deterrent was risk of damaged wrist/elbow/knee/ankle from a minor tumble. A 'Catter I know broke her arm at the elbow years back and can no longer play guitar. She did later win the National singing acapella, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 10 - 07:43 AM

Well the price on the Beemers are good, but they wouldn't do me much good when they're in Denmark.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Raptor
Date: 03 Nov 12 - 03:14 AM

I just saw this thread again. What irony.
After my very near fatal accident on the Harley over a year and half ago I'm still dealing with my traumatic brain injury and not able to work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 03 Nov 12 - 04:37 AM

I wanted one so badly as a teen. Then people I knew got killed or lost a limb. So I decided they aren't for me. Too many bad drivers out there. Deer. Objects that fly up and hit you. Too dangerous.
=(:-( o)


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Nov 12 - 08:07 AM

One associate a few years back offered the opinion that a HOG is the equivalent of a 1950 Buick. Only old people drive one. The ones I've seen recently tend to support his opinion.

Another fellow, a buddy of the first one, offered the opinion that the biggest disadvantage of a HOG was that when you tipped one over (moving or not) you have to wait for the two healthy buddies you need to help stand one back up to quit making jokes about the situation before they'll help.

(SOME riders can stand one up by themselves, but lots of people who ride one can't, and even a little bit of road rash can put you in the latter group even without any serious damage.)

In the glory days of the big bikes, lots of police departments used them for patrol. There are a lot fewer depts who have any bikes at all now, but most of them are into mid-sized Honda rice burners or something similar - comfortable enough to ride on the highway (and carry all the cop equipment) with enough better maneuverability to be somewhat useful in unusual situations.

The people who call themselves "the real bikers" now, at least in my area, are more likely to ride a fairly light to mid weight KOW Crotch Rocket or similar. They say it's more fun. I don't have much of an opinion either way.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: gnu
Date: 03 Nov 12 - 08:14 PM

Big bikes are for big drivers and big situations. I can drive any damn thing. But I wouldn't drive a bike suited for a specific use in another use except on odd occasion. Too many people think too many bikes are just bikes. There are classes of bikes and biking and varitions of places you can drive each "successfully". Hog... highway. Moped... downtown. Ya gotta find the balance, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 07:52 AM

The woman I live with has a brother in law that got himself all jellied up with tattoos and a Harley. Wrecked it and broke both of his wrists. His wife had to wipe his butt every time he took a crap for a few months. She should have made him go around crusty and stinkin'.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: maeve
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 08:34 AM

Raptor-
"... I'm still dealing with my traumatic brain injury and not able to work."

It must feel very strange coming across this thread again. Still and all, I'm glad you are still here and with a loving companion!


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 07:01 AM

Motorcycling is one of life's great pleasures - and dangers. Maybe that's what makes it so damned exciting. I've been riding for nearly fifty years and a serious 'bike accident with a friend after two weeks on the road has made me fairly cautious ever since. The freedom that a 'bike gives on the road even in these overcrowded isles is unsurpassable...so is the discomfort on a rain-lashed day with the prospect of a 250 mile ride ahead of you. The feeling of elation upon arrival at the end of a long journey is euphoric because you've been totally involved the whole way. In a car there is a degree in which you can 'turn off', but with a 'bike, it's very different, it's complete involvement. Sadly I don't have the facility to put into words the feeling of being at the edge of life that motorcycling brings...for that I recommend you read T.E. Lawrence's 'The Mint'.

As always-ride safe. And assume that every car driver is out to get you. Even then you may be unlucky.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 07:30 AM

We all know what became of T.E. Lawrence.
=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 10:35 AM

Indeed we do Henry. Indeed we do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Motocycle advise
From: Raptor
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 06:52 AM

Because of Lawrences crash he led the doctors to come to realize the importance of the crash helmet something that saved my life.
I shall raise a glass to him.
Thanks Jon Dudley for bringing him up I'd not herd of him till you'd mentioned him and I looked him up on Wiki.


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