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Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845

DigiTrad:
FRANKLIN THE BRAVE or LADY FRANKLIN'S LAMENT 2
LADY FRANKLIN'S LAMENT
LADY FRANKLIN'S LAMENT (4)
THE FRANKLIN EXPEDITION


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rich-joy 25 Mar 21 - 10:02 PM
GUEST,henryp 14 Mar 21 - 07:02 AM
Steve Gardham 08 Mar 21 - 08:55 AM
GUEST,Observer 08 Mar 21 - 07:38 AM
GUEST,henryp 08 Mar 21 - 04:18 AM
GUEST,Observer 08 Mar 21 - 02:54 AM
GUEST,LynnH 07 Mar 21 - 04:43 AM
GUEST,henryp 07 Mar 21 - 01:29 AM
Jeri 06 Mar 21 - 06:22 PM
GUEST,henryp 06 Mar 21 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,Observer 06 Mar 21 - 06:07 PM
Jeri 06 Mar 21 - 05:22 PM
Jeri 06 Mar 21 - 05:06 PM
GUEST,henryp 06 Mar 21 - 04:32 PM
Jeri 06 Mar 21 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,henryp 06 Mar 21 - 01:44 PM
GUEST,Observer 06 Mar 21 - 11:18 AM
GUEST,henryp 06 Mar 21 - 06:34 AM
GUEST,henryp 05 Mar 21 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,Roger. 04 Mar 21 - 03:15 PM
The Sandman 04 Mar 21 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,Clive Pownceby 04 Mar 21 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,Observer 04 Mar 21 - 07:08 AM
GUEST,Oriel 04 Mar 21 - 01:19 AM
Joe G 03 Mar 21 - 07:23 PM
GUEST 03 Mar 21 - 06:44 PM
GUEST,henryp 03 Mar 21 - 07:21 AM
GUEST,LynnH 15 May 20 - 03:13 AM
The Sandman 14 May 20 - 04:14 PM
GUEST,henryp 14 May 20 - 03:56 PM
GUEST,LynnH 14 May 20 - 01:43 PM
Steve Gardham 14 May 20 - 10:06 AM
GUEST,LynnH 14 May 20 - 09:27 AM
Mossback 14 May 20 - 09:13 AM
Jim Carroll 14 May 20 - 06:13 AM
GUEST,LynnH 14 May 20 - 05:06 AM
GUEST,henryp 14 May 20 - 03:26 AM
Jim Carroll 14 May 20 - 03:05 AM
Ross Campbell 13 May 20 - 07:30 PM
The Sandman 12 May 20 - 06:53 AM
GUEST,henryp 12 May 20 - 03:48 AM
The Sandman 12 May 20 - 03:12 AM
Joe Offer 11 May 20 - 10:11 PM
Stilly River Sage 03 Jan 18 - 11:01 AM
Raggytash 18 Oct 17 - 06:07 AM
GUEST,henryp 18 Oct 17 - 05:51 AM
Teribus 05 Sep 17 - 02:40 AM
sian, west wales 04 Sep 17 - 07:18 PM
The Sandman 04 Sep 17 - 06:55 PM
EBarnacle 04 Sep 17 - 05:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: rich-joy
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 10:02 PM

A 1970 recording by deceased English-born singer Colin Dryden (renowned in Australia) of "Lord Franklin", has just been posted to YouTube by his niece, with notes by English folk performer, Gerry Hallom :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVuO2DAV8oE


Cheers, R-J


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 07:02 AM

The Terror

From The Observer today; Divers plan return to Franklin wrecks


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Mar 21 - 08:55 AM

With slowly changing climate and habitat over say 10,000 years, I'm sure Polar bears would be able to adapt, but unfortunately their habitat is changing at an alarming rate. As a species they might just survive but we are putting enormous pressure on them by drastically reducing their preferred habitat.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 08 Mar 21 - 07:38 AM

Unfortunately for Franklin and his crew henryp there was no question of them "adapting" the approach of the entire expedition was one of ignorance and arrogance and they paid the ultimate price for their stupidity.

Amundsen's expedition on the other hand was thoroughly and meticulously planned and prepared. Much smaller in scale, better choice of strategy and choice of vessel and a willingness to learn from others. This expedition was trapped in the ice for two winter seasons but by the time the first had passed the entire expedition felt quite confident that they had the skills to survive in the Arctic for any length of time.

What Amundsen learned in the Arctic those two winters meant that in 1912 there was no doubt that Amundsen would be the first to the South Pole and that his team would have far fewer problems in the Antarctic.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 08 Mar 21 - 04:18 AM

Precisely, Observer. They will adapt just like Franklin and his gallant crew.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 08 Mar 21 - 02:54 AM

Quite right henryp the Polar Bears and the Ringed and Bearded Seals adapted over thousands of years [Roughly 150,000 years ago in the case of the Polar Bear] to survive in the climate they found themselves in - I dare say that they will continue to adapt to changing circumstances.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 04:43 AM

For what it's worth, my suspicion is that although the crews had removed most of the stores, fuel etc . from the ships, there were still working parties on board. The weather broke, stopping them getting back to the rest of the crews on land but opened the ice enough for at least one ship, Erebus, to start drifting down Victoria Strait toward her eventual last resting place in Maud Gulf. Inuit reported seeing one of the ships in Victoria Strait with smoke coming from the funnel. Also, the find of a ships boat, along with all sorts of 'junk' from the ship, on the shore of King William Island in such a position that it could be launched quite easily suggests that, before they died, a couple of sailors had been going out to the drifting Erebus on scavenging operations. The boat and a couple of bodies were discovered by one of the search operations (M'Clintock?) which also noted the orientation of the boat.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 07 Mar 21 - 01:29 AM

Polar bears rely heavily on sea ice for travelling, hunting, resting, mating and, in some areas, maternal dens. Their diet mainly consists of ringed and bearded seals; they need large amounts of fat to survive. Seals are a particularly rich food-source especially for hungry mothers and their growing cubs. The bear puts on most of its yearly fat reserves between late April and mid-July to maintain its weight in the lean seasons. Ringed seals use sea ice exclusively as their breeding, moulting and resting (haul-out) habitat, rarely if ever coming onto land. They create or maintain their holes in the ice using the well-developed claws on their fore-flippers. They survive the Arctic winter by building lairs (small caves) in the snow on top of sea ice during the winter and give birth in the early spring to their single pup inside a snow lair.

Food can be hard to come by for polar bears for much of the year. The food-free season can last 3 to 4 months - or even longer in areas like Canada's Hudson Bay. As their sea ice habitat recedes earlier in the spring and forms later in the fall, polar bears are increasingly spending longer periods on land. This has increased human-polar bear conflict when hungry polar bears go searching for food in the summer. Loss of their sea ice habitat resulting from climate change is the primary threat to polar bears Arctic-wide. The Arctic is warming about twice as fast as the global average, causing the ice that polar bears depend on to melt away. Loss of sea ice also threatens the seals which are the bear's main prey, and which need the ice to raise their young.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 06:22 PM

Had a look. In the link that didn't work, "of-canada" is missing from the address. In any case, thanks for positng it again.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 06:12 PM

Thanks, Jeri. Visit Erebus. This is the site; https://www.adventurecanada.com/northwest-passage/a-visit-to-the-wrecks-of-the-hms-erebus-and-hms-terror-national-historic-site-of-canada

For some reason, can't get link to work.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 06:07 PM

The "Dokos" that Jeri thinks has lasted. This however from the link that Jeri provided:

"The ship itself is long gone, as everything biodegradable has been taken back by the sea. The remains at the sea floor of a cargo site of hundreds of clay vases and other ceramic items are evidence of the shipwreck.[1] The four-thousand-year-old ancient shipwreck was discovered by Peter Throckmorton on August 23, 1975."

First five words say it all.

Both the Vasa [1628] and the Mary Rose [1545] were successfully recovered from the seabed and will remain preserved for generations to view and learn from.

"Polar bears spend most of their lives on the sea ice of the Arctic Ocean, which gives them access to the ringed seals that are their primary food. The loss of sea ice habitat is the biggest threat to the survival of polar bears." - henryp

1. Polar Bears spend most of their lives on the sea ice of the Arctic Ocean henryp primarily because it is there.

2. If there was no sea ice the ringed seals would still be there, they would still have to come onshore.

3. The loss of sea ice habitat is the biggest threat to the survival of Polar Bears - Did a polar bear tell you that henryp? My guess henryp is that even without ice the polar bears would still hunt, catch and eat ringed seals in the Arctic wastes.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:22 PM

Observer, the cold sea water is preserving the wrecks better than trying to raise them would. I'd guess if someone tried to move them, they'd disintegrate.

The Dokos, from 2200 - 2700 BC. Seems to have lasted.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 05:06 PM

Henry, if this link is where you wanted to go, I can fix it and delete my message. Your link doesn't work.
I found a site for the HMS Terror.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 04:32 PM

A visit to the site of Erebus;

Visit site of Erebus


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 02:54 PM

Current info on ships in Wikipedia. I don't know what could be done to preserve the ships. I'd think messing with them would be destructive.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 01:44 PM

Polar bears spend most of their lives on the sea ice of the Arctic Ocean, which gives them access to the ringed seals that are their primary food. The loss of sea ice habitat is the biggest threat to the survival of polar bears.

Because of ongoing and potential loss of their sea habitat resulting from climate change, polar bears were listed as a threatened species in the US under the Endangered Species Act in May 2008.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 11:18 AM

" I hope that they are left in their resting place."

In which case they will most certainly decay and be lost forever. These ships are not graves, they were abandoned by their crews, unlike say the "Mary Rose" which sank with great loss of life. Fortunately for our understanding of the period, the "Mary Rose", once found, was subject to removal from the seabed and extensive archaeological investigation and preservation. Could there be similar advantages in raising HMS Terror? The significance of this particular ship is in her state of "completeness" and a detailed study of it would determine how she actually got to her final resting place [It is currently believed that she had to have been sailed there, she is in a sheltered position bound to the North by shallow water, islands and rocks]. The importance of that is that if she was sailed there then the Franklin Expedition, or at least one of it's ships DID actually make it through the North-West Passage.

As for the fate of Polar Bears? They do not require ice for survival, they are extremely good swimmers, there are masses of uninhabited islands and a plentiful food supply.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 06:34 AM

1906 Amundsen made the first Northwest Passage via the Simpson Strait in Gjoa
2007 The entire route was ice-free in the summer for the first time in recorded history
2010 Two gray whales native to the Pacific Ocean were seen in the Atlantic Ocean for the first time in more than 200 years
2012 A record number of 30 ships made the passage
2013 Nordic Orion became the first cargo ship to make the passage
2014 Nunavik became the first cargo ship to make the passage unaccompanied
2016 Crystal Serenity became the first tourist cruise ship to navigate the Northwest Passage
2019 Cruise ship MS Roald Amundsen became the first battery-hybrid powered ship to sail make the Northwest Passage

Though Franklin froze with his gallant crew
The ice has melted and his dream's come true
We see the ships sailing to and fro
Where is there for the polar bear to go?


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 05:11 AM

After two years and no word from the expedition, Lady Franklin urged the Admiralty to send a search party. Because the crew carried supplies for three years, the Admiralty waited another year before launching a search and offering a £20,000 reward (equivalent to almost £2 million in 2019) for finding the expedition.

The money and Franklin's fame led to many searches. At one point, ten British and two American ships, USS Advance and USS Rescue, headed for the Arctic. Eventually, more ships and men were lost looking for Franklin than in the expedition itself. Ballads such as "Lady Franklin's Lament", commemorating Lady Franklin's search for her lost husband, became popular. Wikipedia


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,Roger.
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 03:15 PM

I suppose a lot of us 'folkie types' have been familiar with the story of Franklin due to the song, and like me have looked into the whole tale a little deeper.
I don't think there is much doubt these days about what actually happened, and from a personal point of view I think that these dramatised productions just mislead people and distort history.
I think it is good that the ships have been found, and as an ex Merchant Navy man I hope that they are left in their resting place.
God forbid that they should become a sideshow like the Titanic.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 09:41 AM

good point observer


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:49 AM

Should have known when I saw Ridley Scott as Director that it would be hard-hitting, gory and erm, supernatural. These were interesting two segments that certainly drew me in but I doubt I'll be sticking it out. The filming and effects were very effective and an embroidered plotline makes for a good story but it's just too far from the reality of the expedition for me.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 07:08 AM

"'Inexplicable disappearance' - they were marooned in the middle of an Arctic winter. Surviving would have been 'inexplicable'!"

Roald Amundsen and five others in his crew managed to survive two winters trapped in the Arctic ice Guest Oriel - The explanation for how they managed that is simple, they were far better prepared, had chosen the correct type of vessel and most important of all they were prepared to listen and learn from those who lived there.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,Oriel
Date: 04 Mar 21 - 01:19 AM

'Inexplicable disappearance' - they were marooned in the middle of an Arctic winter. Surviving would have been 'inexplicable'!


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Joe G
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:23 PM

Yes it was very drawn out - I was disappointed to see it was 10 episodes (albeit only 45 mins each though the first one felt like more than an hour!)


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 06:44 PM

I watched the first episode of the BBC series and I wasn't impressed.
But I'll stick with it and see if it develops.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:21 AM

The first two episodes of 10-part first season of The Terror are on BBC2 TV from 9pm on Wednesday March 3.

Faced with sub-zero conditions, limited resources, dwindling hope and fear of the unknown, the crews of HMS Erebus and HMS Terror are pushed to the brink – and no one is coming to save them.

The fate of the real expedition, which set sail in 1845 and led to more than 120 crew members inexplicably disappearing, has warranted a great deal of speculation. After almost 175 years of searching, coincidentally, the ships were discovered by arctic research groups in 2014 and 2016.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 15 May 20 - 03:13 AM

@Sandman: No.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 May 20 - 04:14 PM

i came across a singer some years ago a woman who had written a final verse about lead poisoning. was that you lynnh?


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 14 May 20 - 03:56 PM

The death of Franklin's party is generally attributed to a combination of causes including; hypothermia, exposure, starvation, scurvy, tuberculosis, zinc deficiency and lead poisoning - possibly caused either by the ships' water supplies or their tinned food in badly soldered tins.

Taichman and colleagues now believe that tuberculosis resulting in adrenal insufficiency, or Addison's disease, also contributed to the demise of the crew. Their findings were published in the journal Arctic in 2017.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:43 PM

@Jim Carroll: I suspect your story mixes 3 Franklin expeditions! 1819 he was sent to Canada to go overland from Hudsons Bay to the Polar sea and map the coastline. Such an expedition requires setting out food caches. However, on the return journey they missed some of the caches with the result that 10 crew members died. 1825-1827 the admiralty sent him back to the area to carry on mapping where he'd left off in 1819. Presumably this time they found the caches they'd missed in 1819. Since, with 10 exceptions, all returned safely, it's the events of these expeditions which were remembered, mixed together and passed on.

@Steve Gardham: By all accounts now it wasn't so much the solder on the food tins as the concentrated supply of lead from the steam boilers on board that caused the poisoning. The sailors on Beechey Island had high lead levels but they also had diseases like TB. A consequence of the two mapping expeditions was that, when the ships were abandoned, Crozier and Fitzjames knew where they were heading for and, since they wouldn't be coming back, there was no sense in food caches.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 May 20 - 10:06 AM

Didn't the autopsy on the sailors buried on Beechey find that they died from lead poisoning which sealed the tins of food they were eating?


I thought the earlier Franklin expeditions were by land when he was a young man. I have the books somewhere.

As for finding food caches, these could have been left by stranded whalers or other similar expeditions, or even by the Inuits. They would have had to have been well buried to survive polar bear scavenging or even of the Inuits themselves.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 14 May 20 - 09:27 AM

It's a bit old now but even so it's worth reading:

Owen Beattie/ John Geiger:Frozen in Time: The Fate of the Franklin Expedition. Bloomsbury, 1987.

Whilst principally concerned with the Franklin seamen buried on Beechey Island, it also gives a good overview of the expedition, the various rescue attempts and what was found.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Mossback
Date: 14 May 20 - 09:13 AM

There were of course earlier Franklin expeditions in 1819-22 and 1825-27, tho I don't recall mention of food caches from either. Could also be a somewhat garbled retelling of the stores of the HMS Fury wrecked in 1825 were cached on land & came to the rescue of John Ross'
expedition in 1829.I think several later expeditions found the were Fury's stores still edible as well.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 20 - 06:13 AM

"I would suggest that stories about food caches should be taken with a large pinch of salt."
I don't know the rights and wrongs of all this but I do know that taking the word of past generations "with a pinch of salt" has lost us a geat deal of information
Sorry, I'm not in the habit of dismissing the reminiscences of a 94 year old lady or her forbear sailor and descendant researcher out of hand
If they all believed it I felt it worthwhile to pass on - make of it as you will
Jim


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 14 May 20 - 05:06 AM

Given that the only sailors to survive the Franklin expedition were those sent home early from ports like Stromness because of sickness, I would suggest that stories about food caches should be taken with a large pinch of salt. If subsequent search parties did find 'caches' of tinned food -and that was what the Franklin expedition carried - then they must have been tins that had been jettisoned in an effort to lighten the loads the crew were carrying and hauling. As far as I am aware, the reports of the various search expeditions make no mention of food caches on the known route south along King William Island. What was found were traces of cooked human flesh in abandoned cooking pots along with very obviously clean scraped and cut bones.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 14 May 20 - 03:26 AM

A medal that has been on display in Orkney's Stromness Museum for years has been identified as one awarded posthumously to Sir John Franklin.

Military historian and medal collector Hiram Dunn spotted the medal on a visit to Stromness. But when the museum told him it had been donated by Rosalind Rawnsely, he realised there could be a direct family link to Sir John Franklin. He said, "nobody ever knew where Franklin's Arctic Medal was".

Jeremy Mitchell from the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich said it was appropriate that Franklin's medal had ended up in Orkney. "People forget that Stromness was (Franklin)'s last landfall, and the expedition spent three days here before disappearing off to the Arctic."


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 20 - 03:05 AM

Traditional singer, Jessie McDonald (MacColl's The Vintner) once told the story of a relative who was a crewman on a later expedition to the area where Franklin's ship was stranded and how that ship also became iced in
The only reason they survived was another crewman whose grandfather had sailed with Franklin, remembered family stories of Franklin's men burying caches of food during their attempts to find a way out of their predicament
The second lot managed to find some of the food which had been preserved by the ice
This story was recorded by Scots researcher, Ruaridh Greig
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:30 PM

I'm working (slowly) on reproducing CD-rs of the Red Duster show "North West Passage - The Fate of Franklin and His Gallant Crew" which Ron Baxter and I devised and performed for Fylde Folk Festival, 1998.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 May 20 - 06:53 AM

well i am afraid it is the other way about lord franklin is sung to the tune the croppy boy,
who or who is not a good singer is debatable.
in my opinion,one of the best revival singers who was streets ahead of most of his contemporaries as a SINGER, was Tony Rose. singing is not just about having a good voice


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 12 May 20 - 03:48 AM

From Mainly Norfolk; Nic Jones sang The Croppy Boy to the tune of Lord Franklin in 1967 on the Halliard's first album, It's the Irish in Me. Dave Moran reminisced in the notes of the album's 2011 reissue.

"We enjoyed making this LP for the experience, and in the expectation of then doing our broadside songs. Maybe this last track was Nic looking to that next recording, because I think our freer rhythmic delivery in beginning to pop out in this song, and it makes for a very good version of a very good song by a very good singer."


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 May 20 - 03:12 AM

The Croppy boySearch Results
Web results

The Croppy Boy - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › The_Croppy_Boy
"The Croppy Boy" is an Irish ballad set in 1798 rising relating to the despair of a doomed young "croppy" or rebel. Broadside versions[edit]. Versions of the ballad first appeared shortly after the rising sung by street pedlars and there are several broadside songs printed


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Subject: RE: Lord Franklin in Copyright?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 May 20 - 10:11 PM

What's the source of the melody for this song. I'm guessing it's older than Lady Franklin.

Am I right?

I suppose Dylan owns the copyright. He's the only one who made money off this song.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jan 18 - 11:01 AM

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/sh/tixaWyQzFX/what-lies-beneath/

What lies beneath


Three summers ago, divers found the first wreck of the Franklin Expedition. Using state-of-the-art technology, they're now piecing together what led to the tragedy

In the murkiness shrouding the wrecks of the Franklin Expedition, the mysteries are endless.

How did HMS Erebus and HMS Terror end up where they did in the mid-19th century, meeting a sad demise in the icy depths off the coast of what is now Nunavut?

What about John Franklin and the 128 men who set out with him from England on their quest for the elusive Northwest Passage? What did they do as their grim fate became apparent?

And who were the last survivors?

In the face of so many unknowns, Parks Canada underwater archeologists and researchers are bringing many high-tech underwater tools and techniques to bear. And in that hunt, they've already latched onto some tantalizing discoveries, from DNA inside a boot to pewter buttons they think belonged to two Royal Navy sergeants on the expedition.

There is a certain irony in using cutting-edge technology to explore the Franklin ships. When Erebus and Terror set sail from Greenhithe in 1845, the wooden warships had been reinforced with iron sheeting for polar exploration and were renowned for the scientific and naval innovations on board.

Still, none of that staved off the tragic end of Franklin and his men after the ships were beset in ice off King William Island in 1846 and deserted two years later, according to a note left by the crew in a cairn.

The wrecks were found in 2014 and 2016, respectively, and state-of-the-art technology is being martialed to aid in their exploration. But beyond probing what remains within their wooden timbers, there is the hope that what researchers find will help them get inside the heads of the men on that expedition as disaster struck.


See the rest at the link.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 06:07 AM

I caught the tail end of a programme last night about the discovery of the wreck. Hunt for the Arctic Ghost, Channel 4 9pm.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 18 Oct 17 - 05:51 AM

I wouldn't call Franklin incompetent; he was venturing into a remote and unknown region which suffered an extreme climate.

From National Museums Greenwich; Death in the Ice

In May 1845 two ships, HMS Erebus and Terror sailed from Britain to what is now Nunavut in Northern Canada. Explorations of the Arctic coastline had led to great optimism that finding and charting the final part of the North-West Passage ? the seaway linking the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans ? was now within reach. Explorer John Franklin, who had made two previous attempts to find it, was keen to claim the prize.

By previous standards the Erebus and Terror were powerful and luxurious, with heating systems and vast supplies of preserved foods. In late July, the two ships were seen by a whaler in Baffin Bay, waiting for ice to clear in Lancaster Sound and to begin their journey to the Bering Strait.

Franklin?s two naval vessels sailed up the Wellington Channel before turning south toward Beechey Island, where they would spend the winter. In the spring, they sailed south down Peel Sound but, off the northernmost point of King William Island, were trapped by the ice flow down the McClintock Channel.

Franklin?s ship was trapped in the ice in a remote and desolate area, which Inuit rarely visited, calling it Tununiq, ?the back of beyond?. [Franklin's crew] couldn?t rely on local people for meat, clothing, and oil, as other expeditions had. But they had enough supplies for about three years, and British expeditions were experienced at overwintering in the Arctic.

In the spring of 1847, a party from the expedition travelled across the ice to Point Victory on shore and deposited a written record of their progress. It is thought they reached Cape Herschel on the south coast of the island, filling in the unexplored part of the North-West Passage. Sir John Franklin died in June that year.

Still trapped in the ice, Erebus and Terror drifted south until Captain Crozier ordered their abandonment in April 1848. Weakened by starvation and scurvy, the 105 surviving men headed south for the Great Fish River. Most died on the march along the west coast of King William Island.

After two years without receiving any communication from Franklin?s mission the Admiralty sent out a search party but without success. A total of 39 missions were sent to the Arctic but it wasn?t until the 1850s that evidence of what befell the men began to emerge.

In 1854, Dr John Rae brought back Inuit stories that the expedition had perished somewhere to the west of the Back River. It appeared some of the men had resorted to cannibalism as many bodies were mutilated and body parts were found in cooking pots.

Read more at http://www.rmg.co.uk/discover/explore/john-franklin-final-north-west-passage-expedition-1845#sk1mGytyCyuF2qjI.99

From Scot Free Tours; DICKENS, JFK AND CANNIBALISM: THE FRANKLIN EXPEDITION AND ABERDEEN

Rae's report provoked outrage in Britain, with the most notable critics being Lady Franklin and Charles Dickens. Their argument basically consisted of saying that Englishmen would never become cannibals because it just wasn't cricket. This became a debate about national character and racial traits and Dickens tried to discredit the truth of the accounts coming from those inferior races ? the Inuits and the Scots.   

As part of this disagreement on what really happened to the Franklin expedition, Dickens' friend and fellow author Wilkie Collins wrote 'The Frozen Deep', a play ostensibly about the Franklin expedition but really it's more like 'The Phantom of the Opera on Ice' - its focus is on a love triangle with lots thrown in about self-sacrificing love and a brooding anti-hero.

Dickens found much to like in it for he put on several performances of the play - taking the starring role himself. It was while acting in the play he met the eighteen-year-old Ellen Ternan for whom he would leave his wife of 22 years. If that wasn't enough, the main character and the tortured love triangle also provided him with the inspiration for 'A Tale of Two Cities'.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 02:40 AM

1: The wreck of HMS Erebus from Franklin's lost expedition was discovered just west of O'Reilly Island in Queen Maud Gulf, in September 2014.

2: On 12 September 2016, the Arctic Research Foundation announced that the wreck of Terror had been found in Nunavut's Terror Bay, off the southwest coast of King William Island. The wreck was discovered 92 km (57 mi) south of the location where the ship was reported abandoned, and some 50 km (31 mi) from the wreck of HMS Erebus, discovered in 2014.


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: sian, west wales
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 07:18 PM

I caught a performance by David Newland at Orillia's Mariposa Folk Festival this summer - "The Northwest Passage". He's apparently been up there a few times and is putting together a recording of what was, indeed, an excellent hour of music and narration. He's working on it this autumn so I expect it will be out some time next year.

sian, west wales


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 06:55 PM

Some are of the opinion that franklin was incompetent


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Subject: RE: Concerning Franklin and His Gallant Crew - 1845
From: EBarnacle
Date: 04 Sep 17 - 05:58 PM

If it's the exhibit I believe it is, it's been touring. One of the first stops was at the museum of Natural History in New York. Well worth the price of admission. He got into a mess and got himself and his crew out without the loss of a man.
Shachleton's timing was bad, though. He was pretty much without acclaim when he got home. Seems there was a war going on.


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