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Folklore: Bread Rolls

GUEST,Elfcall 22 Apr 10 - 04:53 AM
Raggytash 22 Apr 10 - 04:07 AM
Rowan 19 Apr 10 - 08:13 PM
The Fooles Troupe 19 Apr 10 - 08:12 PM
Snuffy 19 Apr 10 - 08:08 PM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Apr 10 - 08:40 PM
Mr Red 17 Apr 10 - 07:23 AM
Mr Red 17 Apr 10 - 07:19 AM
Rowan 16 Apr 10 - 11:41 PM
The Fooles Troupe 16 Apr 10 - 02:10 AM
GUEST 16 Apr 10 - 01:44 AM
Rowan 15 Apr 10 - 08:40 PM
The Fooles Troupe 15 Apr 10 - 08:34 PM
Rowan 15 Apr 10 - 08:29 PM
The Fooles Troupe 15 Apr 10 - 05:27 PM
Newport Boy 15 Apr 10 - 04:18 PM
Adeleh 15 Apr 10 - 04:18 PM
Geoff the Duck 15 Apr 10 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,MadauntieCat 15 Apr 10 - 02:45 PM
Marje 15 Apr 10 - 12:40 PM
Les from Hull 15 Apr 10 - 11:53 AM
Charmion 15 Apr 10 - 10:58 AM
Anne Lister 15 Apr 10 - 09:23 AM
catspaw49 15 Apr 10 - 07:55 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 15 Apr 10 - 07:15 AM
Raggytash 15 Apr 10 - 07:05 AM
Rob Naylor 15 Apr 10 - 06:13 AM
Phil Edwards 15 Apr 10 - 04:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Apr 10 - 04:09 AM
LadyJean 14 Apr 10 - 09:00 PM
Les from Hull 14 Apr 10 - 05:08 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 10 - 03:11 PM
catspaw49 14 Apr 10 - 01:26 PM
MGM·Lion 14 Apr 10 - 12:24 PM
theleveller 14 Apr 10 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,MadauntieCat 14 Apr 10 - 11:59 AM
Charmion 14 Apr 10 - 08:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 10 - 08:22 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 14 Apr 10 - 08:05 AM
Jack Campin 14 Apr 10 - 07:25 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 14 Apr 10 - 07:17 AM
catspaw49 14 Apr 10 - 07:03 AM
GUEST 14 Apr 10 - 06:34 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 10 - 06:30 AM
catspaw49 14 Apr 10 - 06:28 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Apr 10 - 06:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 10 - 06:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Apr 10 - 06:06 AM
Dave MacKenzie 14 Apr 10 - 06:01 AM
Anne Lister 14 Apr 10 - 05:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: GUEST,Elfcall
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:53 AM

Guest 14/04 I was dragged up in Coventry and our 'rolls' were always referred to as batches - sausage batch, cheese batch, etc. IIRC them strange folks in Leicstershire called their rolls cobs.

However having one geordie parent and one welsh parent made for interesting comparisons.

Elfcall


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:07 AM

Newport Boy, my explanation is based on my experience in Salford, now it may not be a working area now with massive unemployment but it was working when I was a kid.

But by far the best and most accurate description has to go Madauntie Cat, brilliant !


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Rowan
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 08:13 PM

And, locally, there's a woman who organises the "Biggest Morning Tea" fundraising for the Cancer Council who insists that pikelets should be piklets.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 08:12 PM

"Yorkshire Pie Clates"

Haha - one wonders about the source of the word pikelets...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 08:08 PM

Pikelets? I used to have a reproduction 19th century cookbook with a recipe for Yorkshire Pie Clates!!

Wot's a clate when it's a tome?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 08:40 PM

"essential part of any child's birthday party spread"

Sadly today most children have never seen nor heard of it. Me, I blame Arnott's for bring out biscuits that had these sprinkles, parents just got lazy. :-)


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 07:23 AM

and if I wasn't at Upton FF I would go to the Knob Flinging at the Frome Valley Food Festival in Cattistock.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 07:19 AM

Dorset Knob close but no cigar. Not even the Clinton kind.....


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Rowan
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 11:41 PM

I figured when I poured out the mix I'd find it filled with what we in the states call sprinkles.

And what we in Oz call "hundreds and thousands"; sprinkled over buttered white bread they become "fairy bread", an essential part of any child's birthday party spread.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 02:10 AM

100!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 01:44 AM

Ok, the local library is having their semi annual bake sale, to which I am a major contributor, because that library is one of the few good things in the Godforsaken hellhole I call home.
I make mix cupcakes for the sale, because the library ladies keep the prices low, and I am not going to spend a lot for cupcakes that will sell for fifty cents each.
I found a mix that called itself confetti cupcakes. The box showed cupcakes with little bits of color in them. I figured when I poured out the mix I'd find it filled with what we in the states call sprinkles.
I poured out the mix and it was white. I figured I'd gotten a defective box, until I added the wet ingredients, and all of a sudden the little bits of color appeared. Leaving me to wonder if these cupcakes were safe to offer the youth of Swissvale. They went to the bake sale. But I'm still a bit nonplussed by the whole suddenly appearing bits of color thing.
By the way, thanks for the suggestions on currants.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Rowan
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:40 PM

My grey matter has let me down on their name, too.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:34 PM

Rowan
I forget the name for what was effective a damper mix, hand shaped around the end of a stick. After cooking over an open fire, the stick was removed, and Golden Syrup poured in. Was a popular thing in Aussie Scouts, too.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Rowan
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:29 PM

Drop Scones, pikelets, pancakes etc. Not to be confused with Johnny Cakes, or damper, both of which (even though shops don't sell them) also go well with a dollop of Cockies' Joy, the version of cane syrup that's neither as viscous nor as dark as treacle.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 05:27 PM

In Australia when I was a kid

Crumpets - with the holes, were best when toasted, then 'Syrup' - (cane sugar) applied - Usually referred to as Golden Syrup.

Drop Scones - there used to be rather heavy cast iron pans with hemispherical indents. They were heated in a wood stove, or even over an open fire. At some predetermined temperature below red heat, a scone mixture would be dropped in, using a spoon to get approximate measures, then the tray returned to the oven. This sudden application of heat would cause a 'flash puffing' effect that made for a light result. In some ways they were a bit like massively sized poffertjes - the Dutch pancakes now quite popular.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Newport Boy
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:18 PM

Les:

pikelets are what the rest of the world calls crumpets (which didn't exist locally when I were a kid) - the thicker variety. Crumpets were what toffee-nosed public school kids toasted in front of an open fire. We used to eat 'em with butter and treacle (which is what we called golden syrup). You had to have a clean knife for the treacle, 'cos it were dead common to have a tin o' treacle wi' bits o' butter in it!

Exactly! That's the same as South Wales - it must be the view from the working areas of the country! We did toast ours in from of the fire - I still have the brass toasting fork (made by my father using materials kindly provided by GKN).

BTW - I'm busy, otherwise I would be watching 2 x 1 hour programmes about bread on BBC4 tonight. It's the iPlayer over the weekend for me.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Adeleh
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:18 PM

This is a great thread! Now, the crumpet/pikelet/pancake thing had me completely baffled - thanks Marje! I always thought crumpets were made with a mold, pikelets without, so they spread and were more ragged. But why you'd call them a pancake...

But where do American pancakes come in? Are they the same as the French ones? And is that a drop scone, or is that something else altogether?

I always thought a pancake was the same thing (but a bit fatter if my Mum cooked it) to a crepe - no difference in diameter, you know, the big thing you eat with lemon and sugar and toss every February.

Adeleh


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:08 PM

Les - your Fairy Cake describes what I would call a Butterfly Bun with one small missing ingredient. You have missed out the small dollop of jam put into the excavated hole before filling with buttercream and placing the butterfly's wings on top.

"Crumpets were what toffee-nosed public school kids toasted in front of an open fire. "
I thought that was Tom Brown?

Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: GUEST,MadauntieCat
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:45 PM

Crumpet = bath sponge, inedible until toasted.
Pikelet = crumpet run-over by moderate sized family saloon car.
Oatcake (Stafford type) = pikelet who, still dazed from previous collision has fallen under a steamroller.

Oatcake (the other sort)= floor tile in disguise. Has 'bits'. To be eaten in extremis.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Marje
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:40 PM

Dave Mackenzie is right about pancakes/crumpets if you're in Scotland or Northern Ireland - crumpets are the big floppy ones, pancakes are the "Scotch" type, and the other sort of crumpets (the smaller, fatter, holey ones) don't exist so they don't need a name.

One distinction they make in those areas is between a "plain" and a "pan" loaf. The "plain" is made in a batch with other loaves so it has no crust on the sides(similar to "batch" loaves but tends to be large and white), while the "pan" is baked in a tin of its own and has crust all the way round. The standard sliced, packed loaf is called a "sliced pan", a term which is not generally understood if you ask for one in England.

I love the way the regional differences persist in our words for baked goods. So many other things have become uniform and standardised, it's good to see some local colour remaining in our speech. Someone ought to write a thesis about it before it's too late. There is a actually a branch of linguistics that creates maps to show local pronunciations, and the contour-like lines that join areas with similar words are called "isoglosses". In fact there's the makings of a whole book there. Anyone got a year or two free to go around the country buying bread and buns and mapping the conclusions?

Marje


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Les from Hull
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 11:53 AM

Raggy - pikelets are what the rest of the world calls crumpets (which didn't exist locally when I were a kid) - the thicker variety. Crumpets were what toffee-nosed public school kids toasted in front of an open fire. We used to eat 'em with butter and treacle (which is what we called golden syrup). You had to have a clean knife for the treacle, 'cos it were dead common to have a tin o' treacle wi' bits o' butter in it!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 10:58 AM

LadyJean: a quart of red currants isn't enough to make a batch of jelly, but they combine excellently with other fruit, especially strawberries. I have a good small-batch recipe for a "red fruit" jam that I would be happy to send along if you drop me a PM.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 09:23 AM

Crumbs - oatcakes are something else again, aren't they? I don't think oat is involved in the making of crumpets or pikelets, so I'd be surprised if they were related to either.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 07:55 AM

Toast always makes me think of the funniest food one-liner I know. In America we believe on excess.....If one or tw is good, 27 are better. We also have a passion for adding foreign words or modifiers which make little sense when translated. A few years ago, Croissants were all the rage and Fran Lebowitz once wrote:

"Do you know on this one block you can buy croissants in five different places? There's one store called Bonjour Croissant. It makes me want to go to Paris and open up a store called Hello Toast."

And here's a toast video......a celebration of toast in a song by Heywood Banks.......YEAH TOAST


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 07:15 AM

I've had Staffordshire oatcakes (from Booth's supermarket in Lancaster) and Derbyshire oatcakes (home-made, still got the recipe somewhere for them in a WI book) and they are different in taste though they look the same, but I can't explain how quite.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 07:05 AM

Les when you say Pikelets do you really mean crumpets or do you mean Oatcakes, now my understanding is that Crumpets are approx 75mm across and about 8mm deep, Pikelets are slightly wider approx 120mm across but only about 3-4mm deep whereas Oatcakes (predominantly but not exclusively from Staffordshire) are approx 200mm across but only 2mm deep........ stands well back and waits for abuse .....


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 06:13 AM

LadyJean: In three months, God and my bushes willing, I will have a quart of red currants. Anyone have any ideas as to what I can do with them?

Easy...just eat 'em!!! That;s what happens in our home. A quart is about what we eat when we're picking the bushes. When we're absolutely *glutted* we make redcurrant jelly from the ones that survive long enough to get to the pan.

Same with blackcurrants...we eat what we can and make jam with the rest.

I've never understood it when people say that red or black currants are "too tart" to eat neat. To me (and the rest of our family) they taste fabulous. But then we use about 2/3 of the sugar in jam and jelly recipes and about 1/2 the sugar given in cake and biscuit recipes, so maybe we're not as infected with sweet tooth syndrome as some. We can't stand shop-bought cakes: FAR too sweet.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:36 AM

Cold toast is one my pet hates - the only reason to eat toast cold is because you didn't manage to get to it while it was still warm.

At school I heard a talk by a professional translator, who said that once when he was staying in France he asked the son of the house to go down to the bakers' and get him some bread.

OK, what kind of bread?
Oh, any, just get me some bread.
OK, but what kind of bread do you want?
I don't mind, I just want some bread.
Yes, but when you say bread, what sort of bread?

He said it took a good five minutes to make him understand, "and even then he thought I was mad".


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:09 AM

Hi LadyJean - I was not too keen on biscuits and gravy nor was I enamoured with grits - But I must say that the choice of breakfast in the US was fabulous. If you want biscuits and gravy when you are next here try asking for plain scones and white sauce:-)

Cold toast is not compulsory but it does have one advantage - The butter doesn't melt into it and, if it was buttered before as well, you get a double dose of cholestrol:-)

No idea what to do with redcurrants but, if memory serves me well, they are quite tart - Good candidates for a crumble served with custard?

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: LadyJean
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 09:00 PM

I have often wondered what the British think when they hear about my absolute favorite breakfast, biscuits and gravy. It is a sublime combination, in no way healthy, but delicious. When I was in England, the breakfasts were wonderful, except for the cold toast. Why eat cold toast? I wonder why they never thought of sausage gravy.

In three months, God and my bushes willing, I will have a quart of red currants. Anyone have any ideas as to what I can do with them?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Les from Hull
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 05:08 PM

I'm not very keen on Bath Buns. I prefer a loofah.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 03:11 PM

According to the web site Sally Lunn was the name of a refugee from France - But I must say it doesn't sound very French to me!

http://www.sallylunns.co.uk/history,intro.htm

DeG


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 01:26 PM

Maybe you could figure it out by just looking at the pictures Mike. You seem to be a pretty smart guy even if you are all messed up on names and stuff............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 12:24 PM

Except, leveller, you won't find there a name for any product that everybody, everywhere, will agree on!

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 12:11 PM

If you want to know just about anything about bread, get a copy of Elizabeth David's Bread and Yeast Cookery - an amazing book.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: GUEST,MadauntieCat
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 11:59 AM

Sally Lunn is supposed to come from Sol et Lune- reference to the white cake with golden glaze?

Tiger loaves a la Asda are LUSH- the secret is they have sesame oil in the glaze, gives them the amazing smell.
I can burrow through the soft underbelly of one of those badboys in minutes. Pisses His Lordship right off, that does. (He's a slices-only man.)

Nobody's mentioned Heavy Cake or Fat Rascals yet, or even my favourite, proper saffron buns where you can properly taste the saffron.

Last comment for now, if you're in the south west (of UK! UK! UK!) search out a supplier of Hobb's House Bakery products. The best bread I've ever tasted.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Charmion
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 08:37 AM

Now, that's one that did cross the pond -- the Sally Lunn appears in the "quick breads" section of several major American cookbooks, most notably The Joy of Cooking and The New York Times Cookbook.

I have never seen them in a supermarket or bakery and, as they seem to require a special baking tin, I have never bothered to make them myself.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 08:22 AM

I'm glad about that. Didn't much like the sound of manchips!

Just looking something else up and I found that 'Sally Lunn' is the proper name for a bun from Bath. I had always assumed that it was some sort of rhyming slang. Eeeee, I learn something new every day:-)

DeG


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 08:05 AM

That looks like the one!
When I was little the regional accent in Watchet would have made the "et" and "ip" sound very alike as those vowels were souned similarly and those final consonants were usually soft, hence the change in the word.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 07:25 AM

I presume "manchip" = "manchet". There's a Wikipedia entry on that.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 07:17 AM

Nobody's mentioned manchips yet.
My late mother used to make them on occasion. There was a family of Huguenot descent who made them in Watchet Somerset. I have not found the recipe anywhere...


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 07:03 AM

I'm so ashamed.............This old age stuff is killing me.........................



Spas....Spow.....damn, Sppw..........aw nuts.....Sowp..................damn........Spaa...............just fuckit.......


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:34 AM

They had an article on local TV about this. Nottingham/Anstey called them differently to Coventry. The demarcation line was roughly the A5.

Bun/Bap were the two candidate names.

People travelled up and down the main road not across it.


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:30 AM

Spaw - how could you pass up the opportunity to mention Spotted Dick? I am SO disappointed in you...

:D


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:28 AM

Ya' know.......You guys just keep digging the hole deeper and deeper. You can't even agree with each other on what to call something. But I gotta' hand it to you on the "creative naming" scale you rank right up there. I'm ot sure what image "Fairycake" is meant to invoke but I have a few beauties floating around in my mind and none seem to have much to do with the actual pastry.

For whatever your food may lack, you make it up in spades when you name it. Watching a BritCom back 30 or so years ago, they mentioned "Toad in the Hole" and I had no idea what it was. I found a really fine old English Cookbook and found out then gave it a try. There is no real American counterpart to Toad which kind of surprises me as it is exactly the kind of thing that a midwestern American would eat but it never seemed to have crossed the pond. We have it occasionally in our house and I am always confident in feeling we might be the only people in the entire state of Ohio who are having the dish at the time.......or even that week.

I won't discuss "Bubble and Squeak" but you can all easily see why that is a favorite of Ol'Spaw.


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:07 AM

WIMP!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:07 AM

or maybe it is crimpets vs pukeletts?


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:06 AM

I think people are shying away from discussing their bloomers - crusty or not - Anne:-) I have noticed Asda doing a derivation of the crusty bloomer called a tiger loaf. Pretty much the same size, shape and consistancy of a bloomer but the crust has distinct stripes. I have never seen it anywhere else - Is the tiger loaf a new thing, exclusive to Asda, or did they get it elsewhere?

I agree about crimpets v pikeletts btw.

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:01 AM

I'm not sure that I want to know about crusty bloomers, especially before breakfast!


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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls
From: Anne Lister
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 05:57 AM

Now I'm a little confused between fairy cakes and butterfly cakes, because for me, the cakes where you sliced off the top and make little wings with the top and filled the gap with buttercream were butterfly cakes. Fairy cakes were any small sponge cakes, often covered in icing and other sweet decorations.
It's all the more confusing now that cupcakes are being marketed with pastel coloured buttercream swirled on top of them, which makes them look like even fancier fairy cakes. I made the mistake of buying one once to go with a cuppa and it was a dense sponge below the icing and so not nearly as nice as I was expecting.
Pikelets and crumpets were not synonymous for me (or a posh/not posh thing). Pikelets are similar to crumpets but much thinner, a crumpet being typically half an inch thick (or more) and a pikelet more like a drop scone/Scotch pancake in depth .... can we get confused with drop scones and Scotch pancakes now?
And why has no one discussed crusty bloomers so far?


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