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BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters

olddude 03 Apr 10 - 09:05 AM
olddude 03 Apr 10 - 09:07 AM
CarolC 03 Apr 10 - 09:19 AM
artbrooks 03 Apr 10 - 09:35 AM
CarolC 03 Apr 10 - 09:40 AM
olddude 03 Apr 10 - 09:49 AM
Wesley S 03 Apr 10 - 10:05 AM
CarolC 03 Apr 10 - 10:09 AM
Sawzaw 03 Apr 10 - 10:17 AM
CarolC 03 Apr 10 - 10:23 AM
Greg F. 03 Apr 10 - 10:28 AM
olddude 03 Apr 10 - 10:37 AM
olddude 03 Apr 10 - 10:44 AM
Richard Bridge 03 Apr 10 - 10:56 AM
Little Hawk 03 Apr 10 - 11:06 AM
CarolC 03 Apr 10 - 11:33 AM
Riginslinger 03 Apr 10 - 12:00 PM
pdq 03 Apr 10 - 12:02 PM
GUEST,Janet 03 Apr 10 - 12:09 PM
katlaughing 03 Apr 10 - 12:22 PM
Ebbie 03 Apr 10 - 12:35 PM
Sawzaw 03 Apr 10 - 12:39 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Apr 10 - 12:54 PM
Sawzaw 03 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Apr 10 - 01:15 PM
Uncle_DaveO 03 Apr 10 - 01:18 PM
CarolC 03 Apr 10 - 01:29 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Apr 10 - 01:31 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Apr 10 - 01:47 PM
artbrooks 03 Apr 10 - 02:03 PM
DougR 03 Apr 10 - 02:43 PM
CarolC 03 Apr 10 - 03:44 PM
Sawzaw 03 Apr 10 - 03:48 PM
CarolC 03 Apr 10 - 04:09 PM
Arkie 03 Apr 10 - 04:39 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 03 Apr 10 - 04:55 PM
Sawzaw 03 Apr 10 - 05:21 PM
CarolC 03 Apr 10 - 05:24 PM
Little Hawk 03 Apr 10 - 05:25 PM
Genie 03 Apr 10 - 05:49 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Apr 10 - 06:01 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Apr 10 - 06:11 PM
pdq 03 Apr 10 - 06:13 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Apr 10 - 06:56 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 03 Apr 10 - 07:26 PM
Jack the Sailor 03 Apr 10 - 07:32 PM
olddude 03 Apr 10 - 09:12 PM
kendall 03 Apr 10 - 09:16 PM
pdq 03 Apr 10 - 09:26 PM
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Subject: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:05 AM

A Florida doctor put up a sign that if you voted for Obama, go elsewhere.

Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal, this is sure no doctor I would want treating me for any illness

florida doc


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:07 AM

oops try this link

oops here it is


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:19 AM

Now he has said he won't refuse to threat them, but if they decide to go elsewhere as a result of the sign, "so be it".

However, even if I agreed with him about Obama, I still wouldn't trust him as my doctor. He clearly doesn't have any respect whatever for his hippocratic oath.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:35 AM

Oh, I think that saying "I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical" takes care of the Hippocratic Oath...doesn't make him less of a jerk, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:40 AM

Wouldn't take care of it for me, artbrooks, because as a patient, I'm not thinking in legal terms, but in terms of whether or not I would trust him as a doctor. If he can play those kinds of games with his Hippocratic oath, I would have a lot of trouble trusting him. Clearly, he is only concerned with the letter of the oath but not the spirit of the oath.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:49 AM

I have doctor friends, they have views on everything, but when a patient comes in because they are sick, they focus on the illness and how to get them better, they don't discuss politics, religion or anything other than medicine in their practice. That is why they became a doctor. This guy I guess wants to use it to further a political agenda. He would never treat me, even if I agreed with him (which I don't). I think it is so wrong for a doctor to do that and like Carol said, how can he be trusted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:05 AM

I've been to Mount Dora many times. For those of you who have read "Alas Babylon" it's thought that Mount Dora was used as a model for "Fort Repose".

Yes the doctor is an idjet. But he's within his rights to suggest - nor require - that patients seek their care somewhere else. I know that I for one would not want him to treat me. He's clueless in a lot of ways. I think he's upset because he feels he might make less money under the new plan. And that would be upsetting to many many doctors.

Hey - he's a urologist. He's pissed anyway....


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:09 AM

Mostly the only doctors who don't support the new law are highly paid specialists. Most family doctors and general practitioners support health care reform, and a lot of those support single payer not for profit, or at the very least, a public option.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:17 AM

That's wierd.

I thought the Obama administration told us that "the Doctors" were for the health care reform bill.

Doctors wouldn't support a reform agenda if they believed it would lead to government interference in the doctor-patient relationship, Obama said.

"When you cut through all the noise and all the distractions that are out there, I think what's most telling is that some of the people who are most supportive of reform are the very medical professionals who know the health care system best: the doctors and nurses of America," he said.


This guy must be a defector. He actually has the nerve to disagree. Shouldn't he be demonized because he disagrees and wants to express his disagreement? He is just a noise and distraction just like anyone that disagrees, not an American Citizen with a right to protest. Right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:23 AM

Most doctors do support health care reform, Sawzaw...

Majority of Physicians Support Health Reform that Includes Both Public and Private Insurance Options


As I said in my last post, it's the highly paid specialists, like this urologist, who do not support it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:28 AM

Guy's obviously an asshole first, and a doctor second. Maybe they can get his license pulled - see how he likes that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:37 AM

Of course he is entitled to his opinion, but as a doctor if he uses his opinion in regard to his practice he should not be a doctor ... unless ya haven't figured it out, they are suppose to deal with by oath and ethics ... "matters of illness". privately do whatever you want but in the practice if you do that, you are treading the line of your oath and ethics ... so do something else ... that's the point ... his opinion is not the point here


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:44 AM

By the way in the state of New York, if a doctor does not want to treat a patient any longer they must send a certified letter indicating they will no longer treat the patient unless in a case of a medical emergency ... if they don't they can be in front of the medical ethics board and open to civil and legal actions ... So he should send every one of his patients a letter like that saying if you are a democrat ... yada yada ... see how long he stays in practice


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:56 AM

I would have thought that the sign itself was serious professional misconduct. I'm sure the BMA in the UK would so treat it - much as I would like to see BNP goons denied treatment (or the dole that most of them live off).


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 11:06 AM

This sort of knee jerk reaction is happening everywhere. I heard that there are some whorehouses in Nevada where the girls have put up signs out front saying, "Republican? Against Health Reform? Voted for McCaine? Don't come looking for your fun HERE!"

I can definitely see this sort of petty, tit-for-tat retaliation eventually leading to another American civil war. Boy, am I ever glad I live in Canada! ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 11:33 AM

Are you comparing doctors to prostitutes, LH? I guess in the case of this particular doctor, you might have a point.   ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:00 PM

What's the difference between a doctor and a prostitute? The sell services for money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: pdq
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:02 PM

What's the difference between a politician and a prostitute? They sell services for money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: GUEST,Janet
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:09 PM

My GP in RI is very conservative. He went to GW Bush's inauguaration (first, I think--maybe the 2nd, too, for all I know) and one of the balls. He told me how beautiful the daughters were. He went on and on about how much the US would benefit from having Bush as pres. He's a good doctor, so I kept quiet, but I'll never feel the same way about him. Anyone else wonder how many trained, experienced broadcast journalists were passed over when the Today show hired one of Bush's daughters?


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:22 PM

When I went to a specialist in WY, several years ago, I had a monthly op/ed column in the statewide newspaper, so he knew my liberal politics before I even met him. He loved debating with me on whatever the latest issue was current. It was civil and interesting; we even joked about starting our own Sunday Salon for folks to come together. One time, we talked for over an hour. When it was time for me to go, he said "no charge" as he'd gotten as much out of our visit as he felt I had received in treatment. At the time, I had no health insurance, so the ninety dollar charge was steep.

The same type of specialist, here, recently agreed with me that we need, as he put it, medicare for ALL, single payer, etc. So not all specialists are against it.

The guy in FL is an idiot and I hope is investigated by the AMA or whomever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:35 PM

What's the difference between a wage earner and a prostitute? They both sell services for money.

I think it is not only they who are getting weird. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:39 PM

CC: "the Doctors" were given three choices. They were not asked if they "support health care reform" as you characterize it.

Doctors on Coverage - Physicians' Views on a New Public Insurance Option and Medicare Expansion

Survey respondents were asked to indicate which of three options for expanding health insurance coverage they would most strongly support: public and private options, providing people younger than 65 years of age the choice of enrolling in a new public health insurance plan (like Medicare) or in private plans; private options only, providing people with tax credits or subsidies, if they have low income, to buy private insurance coverage, without creating a new public plan; or a public option only, eliminating private insurance and covering everyone through a single public plan like Medicare. We also assessed the level of physician support for a proposal that would enable adults between the ages of 55 and 64 years to buy into the current Medicare program a strategy that the Senate Finance Committee has proposed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:54 PM

I don't think it is fair to say that specialists are generally against the Law even though among medical workers, they have the most to lose.

Note that Colburn of OK and Paul of Texas are medical specialist in Congress but it is easy to believe that their objections to the Law are not just fueled by their medical self-interests.

Likewise it is my feeling that the Doctor in Florida did what he did because he is a tea bagger first and a doctor second. That would more precisely explain his rude attitude and his lack of concern for the constitutional provision of the secret ballot.

If it were about the money, he would not be discouraging business.

By the way it is NOT about his right to express his opinion. Apparently he has been doing that all along with anti health reform pamphlets and posters in his office.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM

On March 10th, 15 state and national medical specialty organizations representing 85,000 physicians across the nation wrote a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Minority Leader John Boehner voicing their opposition to the Senate bill (H.R. 3590),

The Honorable Nancy Pelosi
Speaker
United House of Representatives

The Honorable John Boehner
Minority Leader
United House of Representatives

Dear Speaker Pelosi and Minority Leader Boehner:

The undersigned state and national specialty medical societies -- representing more than 85,000
physicians and the millions of patients they serve -- are writing to oppose passage of the
"Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" (H.R. 3590)
by the House of Representatives.

The changes that were recently proposed by President Obama do not address our many concerns with this legislation, and we therefore urge you to draft a more patient-centered bill that will
reform the country's flawed system for financing healthcare, while preserving the best healthcare in the world. While we agree that the status quo is unacceptable, shifting so much control over medical decisions to the federal government is not justified and is not in our patients' best interest. We are therefore united in our resolve to achieve health system reform that empowers patients and preserves the practice of medicine -- without creating a huge government
bureaucracy.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM

A prostitute sells her body for money, not her mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:15 PM

Sawzaw,

In typical Republican fashion you are reading what is not there to make a self serving position. I think that if you were to carefully read the articles linked to by both you and Carol you might find that there were many questions asked and that what you are quoting was the presentation of data from three questions.

As for me, what am I to believe; the straightforward words of The Robert Woods Johnson Foundation, the professionals who conducted the survey, and the News site that published the article or your conclusions from a cursory scan searching for flaws and gimmicks?


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:18 PM

Jack the Sailor said, in part:

he is a tea bagger first and a doctor second. That would more precisely explain his rude attitude and his lack of concern for the constitutional provision of the secret ballot.

"Rude attitude", right. But there was nothing that I read in the article or earlier in this thread that suggests he had a "lack of concern for the constitutional provision of the secret ballot."

Though I would be one who he suggests should pass him by, I would point out that he merely puts his attitude out there in public and lets the established or potential patient make the judgment. He doesn't appear to require an affidavit of non-Obama voting.

David Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:29 PM

According to those in the know, of the doctors who are opposed to health care reform, the majority tend to be specialists rather than general practitioners and family doctors, who tend to support health care reform.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:31 PM

Sawzaw,

Cut the bullshit will you?

First you argue that the Doctors do not support Reform.

>>CC: "the Doctors" were given three choices. They were not asked if they "support health care reform" as you characterize it.

Then you argue that they think it is unacceptable NOT TO HAVE REFORM that their opinion is

>>"While we agree that the status quo is unacceptable,"

Like a Republican, you are just picking every negative nit and throwing at the wall hoping that enough shit stick to paint an ugly picture.

Make one argument from one side and support it will you?

By the way, I find it very unlikely that 15 associations speaks for a majority of the doctors. Couldn't it be assumed that at least 35 state associations showed tacit approval of the Bill by NOT signing the letter? In fact I find it likely that of all the specialty associations in the country the heads of 15 could be staunch Republicans or Tea Baggers whose main interest in writing that letter was defeating Obama rather than "the best interest of patients."

While polling is a bad way to govern, caving to political stunts is worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:47 PM

DaveO

It shows a profound lack of respect for the process. Its no one's business how a person votes unless they choose to tell them. People are protected from having negative consequences from their votes by the secret ballot. That's WHY it is secret.

In this case I think that an extra burden is on the Doctor not to even HINT at an interest in how a person voted.

If a Tea Bagger asks you how you voted then, unless you want to confront him and talk politics, the proper response is, respectfully, "That is not your business, I am here so that you can stick that catheter up my pee hole."


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 02:03 PM

Sawzaw, that letter is from 10 state organizations (mostly in the South) and 5 national organizations (all surgeons). I wonder how much overlap that represents, and if all (or even a majority) of their membership signed off. There were over 570,000 physicians and surgeons in the US in 2004 (the most recent number I could find in a brief search)...that doesn't count DOs, PAs and Nurse Practitioners. 85K is a pretty small percentage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: DougR
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 02:43 PM

Like it or not, the doctor has a right to accept or declilne a prospective patient.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 03:44 PM

I don't think that's necessarily true, Doug, or this guy wouldn't have felt a need to cover his ass, legally, by saying that he's not really turning away any patients.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 03:48 PM

This statement does not indicate that doctors do not support reform:

CC: "the Doctors" were given three choices. They were not asked if they "support health care reform" as you characterize it.

It indicates they were not asked if they "support health care reform" In the survey. That CC linked to.

The percentages quoted in the survey were based on which of the three choices they chose, not on "do you support health care reform." or "do you support the health care reform bill"

Nearly 97% of doctors support some sort of health care reform.

So do I.

You and CC jump to the conclusion that anybody that objects to the health care bill does not want health care reform.

Any body the does not like the bill is against health care bill must be demonized as an enemy of health care reform.

That is not the case. The claim that to be against the bill is the be against health care reform is a false dichotomy, a false dilemma, a logical fallacy.

Good decisions are not based on false logic. Even the 85,000 doctors behind that letter are not "against" health care reform if you bother to read it.

If you read the piece CC cited, you will see that only 27% of doctors said they would support health care reform if it did not have a public option which is a minority of doctors because the bill does not have the public option.

Even Bill O'Reilly of the hated Fox News Network is for health care reform and the public option.

    NINA OWCHARENKO: [Heritage Foundation] Well, it has massive new federal regulation. So you don't necessarily need a public option if the federal government is going to control and regulate the type of health insurance that Americans can buy.

    O'REILLY: But you know, I want that, Ms. Owcharenko. I want that. I want, not for personally for me, but for working Americans, to have a option, that if they don't like their health insurance, if it's too expensive, they can't afford it, if the government can cobble together a cheaper insurance policy that gives the same benefits, I see that as a plus for the folks.

BILL O'REILLY: I believe that we do need health care reform in this country. I believe there are a lot of people who can't afford health insurance, and that the insurance companies because I have to deal with them. I'm an employer.

ANN COULTER: Right.

O'REILLY: And I have I'm self-insured. And it's a pain in the butt to deal with them sometimes. You know, they're trying to hose you.

COULTER: Absolutely.

O'REILLY: They're sending you all of this kind of crap that they don't have to, just to give you a hard time, wear you down.

COULTER: Right.

O'REILLY: So I think most Americans want health care reform.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 04:09 PM

I'll obliterate your arguments later, Sawzaw. I don't have time right now. I've got in-laws coming tomorrow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Arkie
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 04:39 PM

If health care problems had not been addressed now, in just a very few years the country would be facing a severe health care crisis as health coverage continued to escalate and more and more people became unable to pay for care. One does not need magical powers to see that. However, the Republicans in Congress placed politics over the interest of the country's citizens and chose to try to alter public opinion with misinformation and made a determined effort to defeat the reform rather than accept open, honest appeals from the Obama administration to join in the reform effort. To make matters worse the buffoons on Fox "news" bombarded the public with outright lies and scare tactics creating a climate that made it even more difficult for sensible Republicans to join the reform effort. The one thing they could fall back on was that since the GOP did not intentionally contribute to the reform bill they could at least have some freedom to criticize the bill that was passed. The second strategy, should the bill pass, was to claim that the bill opponents were for reform. A strategy that will work to some degree since there are so many in this country that have no memory for past events are are willing to let their puppeteers tell them what they are to remember.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 04:55 PM

I got just one question. Does this doctor in Florida treat chimps?

- Chongo


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:21 PM

Yeah Obliterate them, stomp them into the ground, Teach me a lesson. Make me look bad,


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:24 PM

Ok.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:25 PM

If you REALLY want to get stomped, I could send Chongo over...


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Genie
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:49 PM

David O, I don't particularly care if my doctors express their political opinions (unless I'm undergoing a test or treatment that might be screwed up if I'm feeling pissed off), but this doc did more than just say he's not an Obama fan.   Whether intended in jest or not, he basically told his patients to take a hike if they didn't agree with his politics, and I'd have trouble trusting someone like that again, in anything where subjective judgment was concerned.
He now says patients won't be turned away or treated differently if they voted for Obama, but no human being can honestly be sure that they're not treating people differently based on things like prejudices and feelings. Medical errors do occur, under the best of circumstances, and I don't need my doctor disliking or disapproving of me to increase their likelihood.


Doug R, I'm not sure you're right that a doctor has a right to refuse to treat a patient without good reason (e.g., that s/he already has a full patient load).   That may vary state to state. But if that were the case, then doctors would be within their legal rights to refuse to treat people based on race, religion, age, sexual orientation, or (heaven forbid) the patient's being sick!

Little Hawk, would YOU want to be serviced by a prostitute who said she hated you and your kind? (OK, maybe if you're into S & M, but ... )
I wouldn't want to hire an electrician, auto mechanic, babysitter, or most any other kind of provider if they'd publicly stated they don't want to do business with people who disagree with their politics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:01 PM

Actually Carol didn't say this. She quoted it.

"Majority of Physicians Support Health Reform that Includes Both Public and Private Insurance Options "

The article talks about a lot of things that COULD NOT logically be extrapolated from those three questions. The New England Journal article DOES NOT say those were the only three questions.

That is the headline from the article Sawzaw. If you think that The Robert Woods Johnson foundation and the professionals who ran that survey and the news people who reported it extrapolated that from ONLY those three questions, I have nothing more to say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:11 PM

>>I wouldn't want to hire an electrician, auto mechanic, babysitter, or most any other kind of provider if they'd publicly stated they don't want to do business with people who disagree with their politics. <<

But it sure would help with the law suit.

Your honor, I don't know if he gave me too little demerol or too much. But when I blurted "Obama Biden 2012" He put down the catheter and picked up a large barbed fishhook. Since I was tied down, for my own protection, he said, and I could not move. The result is what you see here.
(Jury Gasps!!)
I had hoped to have children but as you now see, that is an impossibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: pdq
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:13 PM

Here is the actual story as linked to:

Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care


A Mount Dora doctor posted a sign telling Obama health care supporters to go elsewhere.

April 02, 2010|By Stephen Hudak, Orlando Sentinel

MOUNT DORA — A doctor who considers the national health-care overhaul to be bad medicine for the country posted a sign on his office door telling patients who voted for President Barack Obama to seek care "elsewhere."

"I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical," Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. "But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it."

The sign reads: "If you voted for Obama … seek urologic care elsewhere. Changes to your healthcare begin right now, not in four years."

Estella Chatman, 67, of Eustis, whose daughter snapped a photo of the typewritten sign, sent the picture to U.S. Rep. Alan Grayson, the Orlando Democrat who riled Republicans last year when he characterized the GOP's idea of health care as, "If you get sick, America … Die quickly."

Chatman said she heard about the sign from a friend referred to Cassell after his physician recently died. She said her friend did not want to speak to a reporter but was dismayed by Cassell's sign.

"He's going to find another doctor," she said.

Cassell may be walking a thin line between his right to free speech and his professional obligation, said William Allen, professor of bioethics, law and medical professionalism at the University of Florida's College of Medicine.

Allen said doctors cannot refuse patients on the basis of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or disability, but political preference is not one of the legally protected categories specified in civil-rights law. By insisting he does not quiz his patients about their politics and has not turned away patients based on their vote, the doctor is "trying to hold onto the nub of his ethical obligation," Allen said.

"But this is pushing the limit," he said.

Cassell, who has practiced medicine in GOP-dominated Lake County since 1988, said he doesn't quiz his patients about their politics, but he also won't hide his disdain for the bill Obama signed and the lawmakers who passed it.

In his waiting room, Cassell also has provided his patients with photocopies of a health-care timeline produced by Republican leaders that outlines "major provisions" in the health-care package. The doctor put a sign above the stack of copies that reads: "This is what the morons in Washington have done to your health care. Take one, read it and vote out anyone who voted for it."

Cassell, whose lawyer wife, Leslie Campione, has declared herself a Republican candidate for Lake County commissioner, said three patients have complained, but most have been "overwhelmingly supportive" of his position.

"They know it's not good for them," he said.

Cassell, who previously served as chief of surgery at Florida Hospital Waterman in Tavares, said a patient's politics would not affect his care for them, although he said he would prefer not to treat people who support the president.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:56 PM

pdq I don't see how any of that affects anything that has been said on this thread except maybe someone, saying "What's to stop him from discriminating for other reasons?" But since he is claiming not to be discriminating now what is to stop him from putting, are a woman, black or homosexual where he says "voted for Obama" and saying exactly the same thing?

Note that his sign said this.

The sign reads: "If you voted for Obama … seek urologic care elsewhere. Changes to your healthcare begin right now, not in four years."

He is certainly turning away all honest people who voted for Obama. Staying in the office for treatment is a defacto way of telling him you DID NOT vote for Obama.

So the statement below is a lie. On the face of it.


"I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical," Dr. Jack Cassell,

He is turning people away. One of the people he turned away took a picture of his sign. He is unethical. His only defense is to pretend to be ignorant of the implications of his own sign. Obviously he is unethical. So obviously he is a liar.

Is this a technically a serious enough breach of ethics for him to be punished? I hope so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:26 PM

""That is not the case. The claim that to be against the bill is the be against health care reform is a false dichotomy, a false dilemma, a logical fallacy.""

True Sawzaw, insofar as a significant proportion of opponents are against it because it doesn't deliver enough reform.

However, in the case of the Republicans, your assertion is obviously flawed.

They have had years in government to institute their own reform.

Do you see any Republican suggestion of Change?......of plans for future Change?.......of suggestions that Change might be needed?....EVER?

NO YOU DON'T!.....AND YOU WON'T!

The Republicans like it just the way it is, and they don't give a shit how many die. After all, they're not your kind of people, they're just a bunch of losers, and you don't need 'em, so why would you do "sump'n real stoopid", like caring about your fellow man, and offering a helping hand.

I get kind of sick, just reading your posts and knowing you consider yourself to be a decent human being.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:32 PM

I am not concerned about charity. I am concerned about affordability and coverage. When your job goes to China, you lose coverage. It happens to Republicans too. They, as usual, are voting against their own interest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: olddude
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:12 PM

The difference Jack, is they blame Obama for it .... Most of them are the hardest hit yet it is those darn Liberals, I gave up trying to explain it a long time ago for sure


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: kendall
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:16 PM

He has a right to be an asshole. This is America.


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Subject: RE: BS: Florida Doc won't treat Obama voters
From: pdq
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:26 PM

And if all the assholes went away, there would be nobody left to drive taxi cabs.


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