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BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?

GUEST,Mary Brennan 05 Mar 10 - 08:09 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Mar 10 - 06:16 AM
John MacKenzie 05 Mar 10 - 04:33 AM
Amos 04 Mar 10 - 07:13 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Mar 10 - 06:48 PM
Greg F. 04 Mar 10 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,mg 04 Mar 10 - 05:40 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Mar 10 - 09:18 AM
John MacKenzie 04 Mar 10 - 09:09 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Mar 10 - 08:57 AM
Greg F. 04 Mar 10 - 08:52 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Mar 10 - 08:45 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Mar 10 - 08:43 AM
Emma B 04 Mar 10 - 08:11 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Mar 10 - 08:06 AM
Emma B 04 Mar 10 - 06:41 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Mar 10 - 06:29 AM
Emma B 04 Mar 10 - 05:46 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Mar 10 - 03:55 AM
skarpi 04 Mar 10 - 03:40 AM
Emma B 03 Mar 10 - 10:53 PM
Bat Goddess 03 Mar 10 - 07:43 PM
Emma B 03 Mar 10 - 07:04 PM
Sorcha 03 Mar 10 - 06:50 PM
Sorcha 03 Mar 10 - 06:44 PM
jeddy 03 Mar 10 - 06:36 PM
jeddy 03 Mar 10 - 06:03 PM
PoppaGator 03 Mar 10 - 05:49 PM
mauvepink 03 Mar 10 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,mg 03 Mar 10 - 03:32 PM
gnu 03 Mar 10 - 03:23 PM
Amos 03 Mar 10 - 03:07 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 03 Mar 10 - 02:46 PM
skarpi 03 Mar 10 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,mg 03 Mar 10 - 01:03 PM
Emma B 03 Mar 10 - 12:50 PM
Leadfingers 03 Mar 10 - 12:47 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 03 Mar 10 - 12:05 PM
Emma B 03 Mar 10 - 11:43 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 03 Mar 10 - 11:35 AM
Emma B 03 Mar 10 - 11:22 AM
skarpi 03 Mar 10 - 10:46 AM
mauvepink 03 Mar 10 - 10:18 AM
Emma B 03 Mar 10 - 08:40 AM
skarpi 03 Mar 10 - 08:22 AM
skarpi 03 Mar 10 - 08:16 AM
gnu 03 Mar 10 - 06:11 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 03 Mar 10 - 03:46 AM
jeddy 02 Mar 10 - 09:52 PM
Leadfingers 02 Mar 10 - 09:01 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: GUEST,Mary Brennan
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 08:09 AM

One or two posters in this thread have written about the importance of apologies. I just wanted to add that I don't want an apology if it's not meant. Kids these days seem to be taught that they can do what they like as long as they apologise afterwards. Then, having done that, they can carry on doing what they like again. I won't accept an apology unless the person apologising really means it and has no intention of doing whatever-it-was again.

I think that probably applies to politicians too!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 06:16 AM

Just popped 'downstairs' after a week or so to provide some advice on self employment so I thought I would take a look at what else was going on. Well, it is Friday after all...

I will add something here and be it on my own head:-) I agree entirely. We are all responsible for our own actions and must bear some of the responsibilty for how other people react to those actions.

If I was, for instance, to wander into a pub, start slagging off the old bloke sat in the corner, tell everyone there that they are all dull and boring, change the channel on the TV so it suited me and then complain to the manager that people shouted at me, I would not be at all surprised if someone smacked me in the mouth.

Of course it would not realy be my fault because people chose to interpret my actions their own ways and all I was actualy trying to do was make a point and make life more interesting for everyone. Just because I do not follow their rules is no reason for them to turn on me is it?

Oh, hang on, I'm contradicting myself by now saying I am not responsible. Hmmmm. I wonder who is responsible for that? I blame the education system...

:D (eG)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 04:33 AM

The tenor of this thread is largely due to the attitudes of some of the contributors, towards the OP, Amos.
To some people, life is black or white, and once they take against something or someone, no further thought is applied, and posts from their betes noir, elicit a Pavlovian response. In many cases the name at the top is enough, and no further reading takes place, in other cases, the post is read assiduously, then mercilessly dissected. Sometime a stray sentence is picked on, and refuted or decried at length.
I freely admit to having scoffed at the OP myself at times, when she went through a phase of 'introducing me' to performers I had known about for some time, with a plethora of blue clickies.
However, outwith those aides memoire, I find many of her posts thoughtful, provocative, and nicely expressed. She has a better vocabulary than many of her detractors, and a wicked line in put-downs ;) In fact it may be the latter talent that enrages some of her "fan club".
Mind you, having largely middle class values, and the odd Laura Ashley moment, is as a red rag to a bull, amongst the left leaning people of this world.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 07:13 PM

Getting back to the original concept, does anyone else find it amusing that a thread on personal responsibility degenerated into a cloud of reciprocal recrimination?

I am not saying I haven't done the same thing, but it strikes me in this context that complete personal responsibility, in a written dialogue like this, would evoke extremely patient clarifications of any misunderstanding, and a generous-spirited charity toward disagreement, if one were assuming fully his own responsibility for what he wrote.

Just saying...


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 06:48 PM

T'aint my fault if you just read sporadic sentences, Greg, then get your head up your arse backwards about what I mean. ;0) I write. You read. And somewhere in the middle, we should meet. Anyways ups, I'll leave you to follow me round, ad infinitum, quoting me out of context, if that's what floats yer boat.


Myra Hindley
Ian Brady
The Yorkshire Ripper


Apparently, the Yorkshire Ripper has now turned into a very nice boy, who's convinced, and trying to convince others, that he's very capable of now leading a normal life. It was the nasty voices what did it, not him....but now, he's changed completely, thanks to his medication.

Of course, the one thing Peter Sutcliffe has overlooked is, that even if he IS now a 'cured' as he's claiming, he still was responsible for carrying out indescribable crimes, even if he was not in a responsible state of mind at the time...

Now you see, if I were him, I'd be so filled with delayed guilt, revulsion, shock and remorse at what I'd done in the past, that I could barely breathe. I'd certainly not want to live, wouldn't feel I even had a right to live, no matter how 'cured' I felt I was.

George Bush.....gawd...where do I start with him?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 06:06 PM

You see what I mean there, Greg?

No, I don't- and I don't believe you do, either.

If you can't manage to express yourself in a manner so as to be readily understandable, that's YOUR problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:40 PM

Here's a good one..the dog shelter..don't know if the shelter made this decision or not but they should be unlicensed until they don't make decisions like this..are going to let the dog that killed a little girl go back home. With some limitations. I absolutely can not believe that dog would not be put down the instant it was legally possible. I just can not believe it.

Here's another...(and I am not so much for personal responsibility as I am for limits on irresponsible behavior through other means)..Chile has an 8.8 earthquake. We have a tsunami warning. Thousands they say..thousands...of people refused to stay off the beaches and were in the tide digging clams..after being warned...the tsunami was only a few inches..but with the ocean you never know..people said it roared in the speed of an airplane and made a noise like a train coming in..I was across the river near higher ground..and we weren't really worried..but still...if you are told to stay out of the ocean, stay out. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 09:18 AM

From Greg:

>>>"...HOW can you possibly know what I mean by my words....

Say what? whoooo, boy.

Well, if a person can't convey what they mean by their words, would seem a rather useless exercise. Best to just shut up. <<<


And Greg, unless you have other agendas, it's probably wise to not quote words out of context, because what I said right after those few words you quoted was:

"HOW can you possibly know what I mean by my words, Emma? We all interpret words differently, according to whether some of us have 'agendas' or not.

And of course, this part, from my same message:

>>>"It is, sometimes, extraordinarily difficult to get the right message from posts, if people read them in their own voice, and that voice is filled with anger, suspicion and bitterness. ALL will be coloured, accordingly."

Without facial, vocal intonation, no-one can actually derive the truthful meaning behind many messages on the internet."<<<

You see what I mean there, Greg? You seem to have COMPLETELY gone off down the wrong track over my words...unless of course, you chose to knowingly do that, because you wanted to er...spin...er..ridicule..er...belittle...humiliate......(you fill in the reasons, Greg) Then take responsibility for them.

Hey, I have a good idea...Let's return this thread to it's original meaning...before someone took it way off track and her buddy followed..

Let's put it back into society's seemingly desperate wish for Blame to replace the R word...

R&B, a whole new meaning..


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 09:09 AM

Do you know, I recall someone getting very self righteous and indignant about a previous Mudcatter whom they perceived as being persecuted, and 'picked on' unfairly, by other Mudcatters.
Much the same thing appears to be happening again,here.
This person felt so strongly about it, that they left Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 08:57 AM

From Emma:

"I really have had enough of being deliberately drawn into this kind of personal argument with someone who appears to make a forum career out of it - but, what is someone supposed to do when they are addressed by name or called a shit in some weird analogy about parturition?"

Then WHY, Emma, did **you** start it in the first place?

Do not give out blame, where there should be responsibility.

Your first post in this thread:

>>>RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B - PM
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 07:11 AM

Les Barker expresses it so much better than me -

Earwig O, Earwig O, Earwig O,
Earwig O, Earwig O, Earwig O,
Earwig O, Earwig O, Earwig O,
Earwig O, Earwig O.
Earwig O, Earwig O, Earwig O,
Earwig O, Earwig O, Earwig O,
Earwig O, Earwig O, Earwig O,
Earwig O, Earwig O. <<<




It's called 'Being Hoisted By Your Own Petard' I think.

I have great respect for people who publically apology and no respect for those who don't.

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 08:52 AM

...HOW can you possibly know what I mean by my words....

Say what? whoooo, boy.

Well, if a person can't convey what they mean by their words, would seem a rather useless exercise. Best to just shut up.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 08:45 AM

And unfortunately a small group of individuals seem to have become utterly obsessed with the rantings of another individual.

If they stopped reacting, the rantings would likely stop. Provocation's only fun if it gets a reaction.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 08:43 AM

Ignore it. Don't post. Keep out of it.
If you ignore an itch it will go away.
It's the grown-up thing to do.
I read lots of bollocks on lots of threads on Mudcat - I ignore it, posting in order to argue is not compulsory.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 08:11 AM

Regrettably so -

I really have had enough of being deliberately drawn into this kind of personal argument with someone who appears to make a forum career out of it - but, what is someone supposed to do when they are addressed by name or called a shit in some weird analogy about parturition?

'There's nothing wrong with narcissists that reasoning with them won't aggravate'


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 08:06 AM

Here we go again.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 06:41 AM

Lizzie I don't have any pathological need for an adversary

You seem incapable of seperating someone disagreeing with or, yes discrediting, something you have written from some kind of conspirical attack upon yourself - well sorry but that's YOUR responsbility!

Now please just get a life - half empty or half full I don't really care chicken :)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 06:29 AM

"I have thought quite deeply about the dissemination of wilful misinformation on a forum like this..."

Not deep enough, Chicken, 'cos you have me so wrong. HOW can you possibly know what I mean by my words, Emma? We all interpret words differently, according to whether some of us have 'agendas' or not.

You have, seemingly, made up your mind, that I am a lying, manipulative human being.

I am anything but that.

You have been helped into this belief by others, who have very strong agendas, with regards to me. That is your decision entirely, your responsibility, as it is theirs.

You choose to see me always half empty, in more ways than one, when, in reality, I am actually always half full.


"...and, whether it has been examples of blatant racism, homophobic hate speech or just someone spouting on about some subject they know nothing about but can manipulate to fit in with some personal fixation, I think that there is a serious duty to discredit it."

It is, sometimes, extraordinarily difficult to get the right message from posts, if people read them in their own voice, and that voice is filled with anger, suspicion and bitterness. ALL will be coloured, accordingly.

Without facial, vocal intonation, no-one can actually derive the truthful meaning behind many messages on the internet.

You chose to go down this path, Emma. I did not ask you to. You chose to stand beside those who have taken my freedom of speech away, and who literally stalk me around the internet. I have no idea why they do this, other than I have dared to stand up to them, and they have it their way for so very long, that they cannot believe anyone has the right to do that.

I have every right.

I have been responsible for making mistakes on here and I have apologised, publicly for that, both to some posters, and to Joe, Max and Mick. I have had terrible things written about me, on Facebook, but someone on this forum, who purports to be the bees knees when it comes to caring about others, but who has never, ever had the guts to apologise for the things they have said about me, or my family.

I have had my intelligence insulted by so many, yet have never taken that same line with them, indeed I have actually stated that they are intelligent people.

I will leave you to continue down the path you have chosen to walk, but please, take the responsibility for walking down that, yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:46 AM

Well now isn't that nice - a way to call someone a shit without actually mentioning them by name - do you think that some weird dreamer might just have become a little obsessive about who can post in 'her' threads?

"This is because I am pedantic about facts, and I get enraged if anyone refuses to report the absolute truth"

Well now I'm sure that is meant that to be insulting - there are people good at personal insults on mudcat in lieu of any argument - but I frequently draw attention to the fact that what I post is my opinion or that of someone else who I may not even agree with but, wherever possible, credit the source.

What I do NOT post is the most outrageous lies - yes lies! - as statements of fact in areas of expertise I know nothing about.


I have thought quite deeply about the dissemination of wilful misinformation on a forum like this and, whether it has been examples of blatant racism, homophobic hate speech or just someone spouting on about some subject they know nothing about but can manipulate to fit in with some personal fixation, I think that there is a serious duty to discredit it.

Well that's my take on 'personal responsibility' anyways FWIW


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 03:55 AM

Last night, I had the weirdest dream.......... :0)


Death of Personal Responsibility:

'Lizzie MADE me do it! It's her fault, and Spaw's and Peace! I couldn't help doing it, because of THEM!"


Birth of Personal Responsibility:

'Lizzie, I am SO sorry for the way I behaved. I realise that you were not, in any whatsoever, attacking me. Good heavens, I hadn't even been in this thread up that point, nor do you have any personal issue with me.

You were merely talking about something that actually happened.

I was feeling in a real nasty mood that evening and so I used you as a scapegoat for those feelings.'



And another new baby arrives:

"Lizzie, I was a real shit to come into this thread and say what I did. I've had a good long look at myself and realised I've become more than a little obsessed with you. This is because I am pedantic about facts, and I get enraged if anyone refuses to report the absolute truth. Of course, I also recognise that all the cut and paste bits I find on the internet may also not be the truth, and therefore to use them against you, doesn't quite add up. But I've got myself into this vicious circle where I *HAVE* to discredit, patronise or prove you wrong, no matter what you say. I will think deeply before doing this again, because I understand that it is my responsibility for behaving this way.



My goodness, isn't the Maternity Ward of Central Responsibility Hospital getting full.


;0)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: skarpi
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 03:40 AM

who is blind , well you Sorcha you lost a line there .......:O)

kv Skarpi


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 10:53 PM

OK just thinking about nursery rhymes - well it makes you think doesn't it?

According to Bruno Bettelheim in 'The Uses of Enchantment' (New York Knopf 1976) the fairytale proves as the unconscious proving ground with a young child's struggles with the great developmental tasks, which if not mastered, leave ineradicable scars upon the future adult

Goldilocks goes to sleep in a stranger's bed (in some versions she is eaten), a rebellious and individualistic girl - the kind that could easily be drawn into trouble by her natural inclinations - walks through a wild forest her individualism leading her into trouble, although, in later versions where women 'know their place', she can be resurrected as a reformed, more obedient girl, the powerful male woodcutter/policeman having destroyed the seducing wolf.

As for Snow White well……she has to fall asleep after she bites into the apple, otherwise her lack of personal responsibility would 'wreak sexual havoc on the kingdom, not too dissimilar from the evil Eve of biblical fame'.

Just goes to show there really is nothing new under the sun is there?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 07:43 PM

About 20 years ago I overheard a conversation at a local downtown Portsmouth Szechuan restaurant: "Of COURSE business ethics courses are taught in B-school...but nobody ever takes them."

Of course, taking the courses and paying attention to them are two different things, but I think the recent economic meltdown after too many years of rampant greed and short-term business outlook underscores those accidentally eavesdropped words.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 07:04 PM

well it seems that little rhyme about a lack of personal responsibility goes back to at least 1794

nothing new there then?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:50 PM

Sorry, left out a line...she had so many children she didn't know what to do!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:44 PM

Skarpi, if Lizzie can say the F word, why can't I? Do you want me to go find examples? Why do you single ME out?

I also think she just might be upset because I told her to 'shut up'....which she has told a LOT of people to do.

Spaw and Bruce/Peace/999 (whatever he is today) say it too, and YES, some people ARE more equal on Mudcat than others.

(Desiderius Erasmus, Adagia (III, IV, 96 WHO is King of the Land ?
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King

In regione caecorum rex est luscus

SO, WHO is blind here?

There was an old woman who lived in a shoe,
She gave them some broth without any bread,
Whupped all their bums and sent them to bed


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: jeddy
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:36 PM

stumbles back through thread coughing, you lot shouldn't have made me all excited like that. looks around confused....wanders out again


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: jeddy
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:03 PM

skips into thread towing 2 meters of loo roll waving like a banner.


NAH NAH cocks a snoot at everyone....
scrunches loo roll into balls and chucks them around with for and recision...HA.. direct hit!! picks up banner of bog roll and skops merrily out again.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 05:49 PM

George Will's column of a few days ago addresses the contemporary trend of explaining away all irresponsibility and immorality as "disease" to be "treated." He also points out that "abnormality" of any kind, including genius (e.g. the young Mozart) is now widely viewed as something that must be "cured":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/26/AR2010022603369.html

(Unfortunately, you may need to establish a free account with the Washington Post to access this page.)

While I respect his intellect, I usually disagree with Mr. Wills' options on all topics other than baseball, but I'm 100% with him on this one. I believe that there are such things as right and wrong, even if my idea of where to draw the line between them might differ from yours. NOT everything a person can do is excuseable and morally indifferent.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: mauvepink
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 04:24 PM

The pity of that mg is that we are all folkies and should treat each other with the same respect no matter which list we are on. People can have differences of opinion, like they sing different songs, but one would not expect to enter a club, feel and safe and cosy inside whilst upon leaving it expecting to be beaten up by the same folks you just shared singing space with.

Personally I do not see why we cannot address each other with civility without resorting to bad language and insults.

So okay: I'm a dinosaur ! lol

mp


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:32 PM

I think in the music threads you have to be more careful and the b.s. threads are more open..I think coming to the open threads does not imply that you accept abuse, but that things could likely get more heated up and you take your chances when you enter here...mg


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:23 PM

Nor personal clemency.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:07 PM

Indeed it would, Lizzie. Just for example, there's a really toxic mantra floating around MBA courses that says "The purpose of business--the SOLE purpose--is to make money."

This patently false bit of information can distort the rationality of hundreds of young trainees who later become executives. When they use it to think with they make decisions like those of the late Enron energy company. They never even THINK to run it past an evaluation based on personal claimancy of the consequences. Institutionalized idiocy of the first magnitude, you ask me.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 02:46 PM

Wouldn't it be good, for instance, if employers started to take on personal responsibility towards their staff again. If they began treating them with respect and kindness, rather than cutting wages, cutting hours, no contracts, no tea breaks, no this, no that....

If they were more spiritually responsible, as well as financially so, for the health, welfare and happiness of their staff, then they might well start getting far more back than they ever dreamt of.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: skarpi
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 02:35 PM

hummmmm
In the past people have been closed out for saying thing s
that does not fit in here on Mudcat , and others have quit
coming in here .....


but ......and others can stay on and say things like Sorcha did
in this thread ..

thats my meaning , nothing more nothing less thank you very much for this program....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 01:03 PM

I think it is quite fine to start a thread covering the same basic territory but with a less emotionally loaded title. No one wants to be in a situation of seeming to agree with the title of the other thread, but we have opinions to express that seem to confuse people into believing that we do agree. And there are many subtopics to cover..many of which have to do with the possible collapse and restructuring of society as we know it. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 12:50 PM

'If you have nothing relevant to say in this thread ABOUT the subject matter, then I'd politely suggest you find another thread to write in. Thank you.'

May I politely refer you to my post of 03 Mar 10 - 11:43 AM Lizzie

Thank you again


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 12:47 PM

Jeddy = The Persional Responsiblity of Dog Breeders is the point of bringing dogs into this discussion ! As well as Bad trainers and Bad Owners !


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 12:05 PM

"Skarpi - it meant it was my intention to leave this particular thread as I believed that, as it was basically just repeating and continuing the personal opinion of the OP expressed during many posts on a current long running thread, it was somewhat unecessary in my opinion.
Nothing more - nothing less"




Emma, see above. You mentioned me, in your reply to skarpi, saying you thought the OP (doh..me!) had started this thread to continue my thoughts in the other thread.

I had not.

You were wrong.

If you have nothing relevant to say in this thread ABOUT the subject matter, then I'd politely suggest you find another thread to write in. Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 11:43 AM

Let's get this straight, just for the record
I am replying to skarpi - Thank you


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 11:35 AM

"Well skarpi I think you will find that the OP has justified her own use of such language on previous occasions - maybe this observation was not lost on Sorcha and - sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!"

Let's get this straight, just for the record, Emma.

First of all, YOU took this thread off thread, with a highly unnecessary remark. You then went on to make another. Neither of which were *anything* to do with me.

Sorcha came in and said what she did, for what reason????????   I had not addressed her, nor attacked, nor was talking about her in *any* way, and yet, she responded to me in the most personal way. She had not even BEEN in this thread. Not only that, but she said what she did for what reason? I told the truth there, that two dog trainers would not touch a rotweiler, because they KNEW his bloodline, and KNEW it contained dangerous dogs. Might I also add that these one of these two women helped the police to train dogs, so she knew what she was talking about.

When I have used th 'f' word, it has been *either* in **response** to vicious and persistent attacks from the usual crowd, OR to highlight how bloody angry I feel at the apathy that has brought this world to the state it's now in.

Had *I* come in here and in response to you first post had said "Emma, why don't you shut the fuck up and get out of this thread!" then you'd have had the right to take me up on that.

I did not.

Your friend Sorcha, did.

I suggest you take the matter up with her, then look up the word Hypocrisy in the dictionary.

Thank you very much.

And now, yet again, back to the subject of this thread, which IS about Personal Responsibility.


Oh, and I do not have to ask *your* permission, Emma, to start a thread, no matter what it is about. You do not have to open a thread, nor take part in it whatsoever, if you are not interested.

May I politey suggest that you stay out of this one from now on, for that very reason, unless, of course, you want to be a hypocrite and just keep coming back and back to re-iterate your point.

Thank you, again.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 11:22 AM

Skarpi - it meant it was my intention to leave this particular thread as I believed that, as it was basically just repeating and continuing the personal opinion of the OP expressed during many posts on a current long running thread, it was somewhat unecessary in my opinion.
Nothing more - nothing less

I hope that my opinion is as valid as any other posters even if I don't resort to calling them a 'right pain in the whatsit' or 'pretty damn nasty' or other ad hominen 'arguments' :)

However if you think that in some way expressing such an opinion singles me out in some way for you to specifically comment on me as you did ......

"but where is Joe Offer now ?? are some people more inportant than others
in the Mudcat threads ?

'Now I have no wish to further refresh this thread or any other spinoffs of other threads' that was from Emma B'

well if some people can write almost anything in here and some don´t
... I thought this is only for Music related matters .....
or that was I saw in the Joe Offer thread for JM the otherday ."


....... I would be interested to hear why


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: skarpi
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 10:46 AM

Hallo Emma , yes she may also have been saying things , but I have not notice yet .

If so then they should both behave ......:O)

Emma please tell what this mean ? :Now I have no wish to further refresh this thread or any other spinoffs of other threads.

I may have misunderstand this,.

kv Skarpi


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: mauvepink
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 10:18 AM

TBH I am of the school that there are no bad dogs or children. Just bad 'owners' (and for the pedants I am not saying our children are our property. They are but loaned to us).

There will always be the occasional exceptions to the rule but most likely if a child or pet is bad look to it's parents or owners as a good start. Budgies don't get put down if they peck you, cats if they scratch you, horses if they nibble you... why do dogs automatically get put down? I have often wondered that one. I know someone with a pet orphaned wolf (which was born about as wild as you can get yet is a pet now).

Mongrels, by definition, have no breedinf... yet they often are the most faithful of animals. I do not necessarily subscribe to the good breeding school. Good teaching - be it manners, response, responsibilities, etc - must surely come from the mentor?

Just some opinions to contribute

mp


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 08:40 AM

Well skarpi I think you will find that the OP has justified her own use of such language on previous occasions - maybe this observation was not lost on Sorcha and - sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!

BTW maybe you would also like to explain your reference to my post of   02 Mar 10 - 07:55 AM in which I commented that I had no wish to refresh a thread that appeared to be simply a continuation / spin off further repetition of a theme in an existing long running thread

"but where is Joe Offer now ?? are some people more inportant than others
in the Mudcat threads ?"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: skarpi
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 08:22 AM

are Sorcha words Personal Responsibility?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: skarpi
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 08:16 AM

Well Sorcha , I am about to have a Husky in my house soon
yes I know a little , and I know that you can train dogs to do almost
whatever you are gonna use them .

you can train him badly or you can go to a good trainer and teach him
well like you said Sorcha , its all about what you are gonna
have the dog for ... .


my message has nothing about what you said about the dog s
but how you said it .

what right do you have Sorcha to tell her to and I copy paste you r own word here :SO JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP, OK?

Tell me Sorcha are you grown up or what ?
a teen may have said something like this but you are an adult ?

I like dogs , and I wish I had have a dog sooner ..
kv Skarpi


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:11 AM

Re my post...

"Date: 02 Mar 10 - 06:52 PM

Yeah, skarpi? You know anything about dogs? Or were you just posting about Sorcha's post?"

I meant to clearly point out that skarpi said nothing about dogs in his post. He only commented on Sorcha's post.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:46 AM

It is irresponsible of humans to make whales 'perform' in 'baths'. Cruel too, but we are sadly, pretty damn irresponsible as a species.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: jeddy
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 09:52 PM

heck if you lot think a snappy( snappy not dangerous) dog is bad. i hate to think how much you are ranting at that killer whale!!!
mind you, you would be in good company.

that was another tragedy that shouldn't have happened. but the thing is worth alot of money so of course they don't want to kill it!

i agree the behaviour of dogs is down to the owners training. however this shouldn't just be about them.
personal responsibilty is about everything we do.
every choice.
every action.
or things we should have done.
lets not make this just about dogs, that is such a small aspect of the whole subject.

ta x x x


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Subject: RE: BS: The Death of Personal Responsibility?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 09:01 PM

Mary - I agree - My Dad had an English Bull terrier - He REALLY knew dogs ,bit couldnt stop her snapping at ANYTHING ! Turned out she was InBred so , sadly , she was put down - The ONLY course for an InBred dog !


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