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Songs within songs

MGM·Lion 13 May 15 - 05:01 PM
GUEST 13 May 15 - 04:23 PM
GUEST 13 May 15 - 03:53 PM
Steve Gardham 13 May 15 - 03:25 PM
Jim Carroll 13 May 15 - 01:30 PM
MGM·Lion 13 May 15 - 01:09 PM
MGM·Lion 13 May 15 - 12:59 PM
GUEST 13 May 15 - 08:55 AM
GUEST,HiLo 13 May 15 - 03:17 AM
Joe Offer 13 May 15 - 01:15 AM
GUEST,henryp 18 Jun 14 - 09:31 AM
Tattie Bogle 18 Jun 14 - 05:12 AM
Tootler 17 Jun 14 - 06:57 PM
Mo the caller 17 Jun 14 - 03:32 PM
eftifino 17 Jun 14 - 11:41 AM
PHJim 17 Jun 14 - 10:41 AM
PHJim 17 Jun 14 - 10:38 AM
GUEST,Barnacle (at work) 17 Jun 14 - 08:16 AM
GUEST,Barnacle (at work) 17 Jun 14 - 08:11 AM
Tradsinger 17 Jun 14 - 06:13 AM
GUEST,Mark Bluemel 17 Jun 14 - 04:45 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Jun 14 - 03:20 PM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 16 Jun 14 - 02:46 PM
GUEST,mayomick 16 Jun 14 - 12:44 PM
PHJim 16 Jun 14 - 11:23 AM
PHJim 16 Jun 14 - 11:15 AM
GUEST 16 Jun 14 - 11:09 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jun 14 - 08:45 AM
PHJim 16 Jun 14 - 12:25 AM
GUEST,Lew becker 16 Jun 14 - 12:09 AM
GUEST,henryp 15 Jun 14 - 03:37 PM
DebC 15 Jun 14 - 03:23 PM
DebC 15 Jun 14 - 03:21 PM
Jason Xion Wang 15 Jun 14 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,henryp 15 Jun 14 - 11:25 AM
Steve Howlett 15 Jun 14 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,Gerry 15 Jun 14 - 08:40 AM
Tattie Bogle 15 Jun 14 - 05:19 AM
GUEST,Musket 15 Jun 14 - 03:23 AM
Jason Xion Wang 14 Jun 14 - 03:22 PM
mousethief 04 Feb 10 - 09:11 PM
Joe_F 04 Feb 10 - 08:36 PM
Young Buchan 04 Feb 10 - 04:33 PM
Young Buchan 04 Feb 10 - 04:26 PM
Young Buchan 04 Feb 10 - 10:50 AM
bseed(charleskratz) 04 Feb 10 - 03:09 AM
C. Ham 03 Feb 10 - 03:43 PM
GUEST,Ian Gill 03 Feb 10 - 03:23 PM
Paul Burke 03 Feb 10 - 02:22 PM
Tug the Cox 03 Feb 10 - 02:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 May 15 - 05:01 PM

He play'd "The Welcome Ower the Main"
And "Ye's Be Fou and I'se be Fain"
And "Auld Stuart's Back Again"
Wi' muckle mirth and glee
He'd play'd "The Kirk", he play'd "The Queer"
"The Mullen Dhu" and "Chevalier"
And "Lang Awa' But Welcome Here"
Sae sweet, sae bonnielie

.....The Piper of Dundee


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 15 - 04:23 PM

I think the reason I like songs that mention other songs is because songs are something I'm especially interested in. I imagine it's the same for a lepidopterist hearing someone singing about "the bright elusive butterfly of love" or an astronaut listening to "Rocket Man" or "Major Tom."


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 15 - 03:53 PM

The chorus of Iris Dement's song "Mama's Opry" is a string of names or first lines of hymns:

And we sang Sweet Rose of Sharon, Abide With Me
'Til I ride The Gospel Ship to Heaven's Jubilee
And In That Great Triumphant Morning my soul will be free
And My Burdens Will Be Lifted when my Saviour's face I see

So I Don't Want to Get Adjusted to This World below
But I know He'll Pilot Me 'til it comes time to go
Oh, nothing on this earth is half as dear to me
As the sound of my Mama's Opry


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 May 15 - 03:25 PM

Medleys or Songs of Songs go back to the 17thc at least. They were very popular on broadsides in the early 19th century and in the later Music Hall. Sometimes they consist of long lists of titles, cleverly rhymed, and sometimes they are parts of songs strung together. 'The Death of Harry Clifton' laments his passing in 1872 and includes most of his better-known song titles.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 15 - 01:30 PM

A song my mother sang made up of song titles from the 20s and 30s
'I Want Some Money' to give it to the 'Sheikh of Araby'
Oh, ain't it funny the difference that money makes to me,
'Tippi Canoe', 'Jealous of You'
'Hiawatha's Melody of Love', Carbolic'
'Here Comes old Beaver', 'Floating Down the Stream to You'.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 May 15 - 01:09 PM

His head was covered all over with blood
His eyes you could scarcely see
The very last words poor Georgie said
Were "Nearer My God To Thee".

Engine 143, or The FFV


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 May 15 - 12:59 PM

The keelman and the pitman trim
They drink bumbo made from gin
Then to dance they do begin
To the tune of Elsie Marley
Byker Hill and Walker Shore...

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 May 15 - 08:55 AM

Ledbelly:

It was midnight out on the sea
The band was playing "Nearer My God to Thee"
Cryin' "fare thee, Titannic, fare thee well"

While reading through this thread, I realized that I really like it when a song mentions another song, especially if it's a song I know. And if it's a song I don't know, the reference makes me want to hear it.

This Ledbelly song made me seek out the hymn, which I hadn't previously heard of, just as Eric Bogle's great ballad made me want to learn Waltzing Matilda (which until then I had assumed was a song about a kangaroo in a circus). And though I was disappointed in both cases and decided not to add them to my songbooks, I still have warm feelings toward both just because they're referred to in songs that I love.

I don't know why that is. In fact, it seems peculiar now that I think about it. But it might be something for songwriters to consider.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 13 May 15 - 03:17 AM

In her song "You Want Alchemy",Kate Bush mentions the song "Cloudbusting" .


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Subject: ADD Chorus: Moonlight Bay (Madden & Wenrich)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 May 15 - 01:15 AM

Let us not forget Doris Day. It's debatable whether she was born in 1922 or 1924, but there's no doubt that she's still living. Her film Moonlight Bay came out in 1951. There was a 1953 sequel, By the Light of the Silvery Moon.


Moonlight Bay
(Madden & Wenrich)

We were sailing along on Moonlight Bay
We could hear the voices ringing, they seemed to say:
"You have stolen her heart, now don't go 'way"
As we sang "Love's Old Sweet Song" on Moonlight Bay

D DG D - / A7 - D -
——w: Edward Madden, m: Percy Wenrich (1912)


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 09:31 AM

O'Donoghue's by Andy Irvine records his life in Dublin from 1962 to 1968. There's a song in almost every verse.

Well, Paddy and Maureen, very, very sound though she liked to camp on the moral high ground
You had long hair, you were outward bound, Go down you blood red roses
Ronnie Drew in his fine suit of blue and a voice like gravel that'd cut you in two
We thought he was Dublin through and through, but he blew in from Dun Laoghaire


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 05:12 AM

Onward Christian Soldiers is also mentioned in Adam McNaughtan's "Jeely Piece Song".


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Tootler
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 06:57 PM

When the Boat Comes In quotes The Keel Row


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Mo the caller
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 03:32 PM

That Egg siong has a thread all of it's own, I think.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE DROVER'S DREAM
From: eftifino
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 11:41 AM

The Drover's Dream is one from Down Under with imbeede songs:

Drover's Dream

One night when travelling sheep, my companions lay asleep
There was not a star to illuminate the sky
I was dreaming, I suppose, for my eyes were nearly closed
When a very strange procession passed me by
First there came a kangaroo, with his swag of blankets blue
A dingo ran beside him for a mate
They were travelling mighty fast, and they shouted as they passed
"We'll have to jog along, it's getting late"

The pelican and the crane, they came in from off the plain
To amuse the company with a Highland Fling
The dear old bandicoot played a tune upon his flute
And the native bears sat round them in a ring
The drongo and the crow sang us songs of long ago
While the frill-necked lizard listened with a smile
And the emu standing near with his claw up to his ear
Said, "Funniest thing I've heard for quite a while"

The frogs from out the swamp, where the atmosphere is damp
Came bounding in and sat upon the stones
They each unrolled their swags and produced from out their bags
The violin, the banjo and the bones
The goanna and the snake, and the adder wide awake
With the alligator danced "The Soldier's Joy"
In the spreading silky oak the jackass cracked a joke
And the magpie sang "The Wild Colonial Boy"

Some brolgas darted out from the tea-tree all about
And performed a set of Lancers very well
Then the parrot green and blue gave the orchestra its cue
To strike up "The Old Log Cabin in the Dell."
I was dreaming, I suppose, of these entertaining shows
But it never crossed my mind I was asleep
Till the Boss beneath the cart woke me up with such a start
Yelling, "Dreamy, where the hell are all the sheep?"


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: PHJim
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 10:41 AM

From Bill Monroe's Uncle Pen (My apologies if it's already been posted)

Well, he played an old tune they called the "Soldier's Joy",
And then he did the one they called the "Boston Boy".
Greatest of all was the "Jennie Lynn",
To me, that's where the fiddlin' begins.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: PHJim
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 10:38 AM

I'd play Sally Goodin all day if I could
But the Lord and my wife wouldn't take it very good
So I fiddle when I can, work when I should
Thank God I'm a country boy


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,Barnacle (at work)
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 08:16 AM

How did it come up "sock" ????

Last damn song in the world!


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,Barnacle (at work)
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 08:11 AM

Try Bill Caddicks "Last damn sock in the word" - Brilliant - and if you're a Caddick fan you will notice multiple references to his songs.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Tradsinger
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 06:13 AM

There is an old music hall song called "The Egg" which is completely composed from old songs and tunes. It starts

Maxwellon Braes are bonny where stands the Grand Hotel
And it's there I had an egg for my breakfast and I knew as I opened the shell, that

It was an old of the Old Brigade etc

Can anyone finish it off?

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 04:45 AM

is an interesting angle on the "Song within a Song" idea.

We never quite find out what song A11 is...


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 03:20 PM

"Old Spinning Wheel (in the Parlor)" mentions "Old Black Joe."

Sometimes it seems like I can hear her in the twilight
At the organ, softly singing, "Old Black Joe."
There's an old spinning wheel in the parlor
Spinning dreams of a long, long, ago.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 02:46 PM

Roger Watson's "Salvation Band" mentions "Onward Christian Soldiers".

Then there is the song about the broadside ballad seller that gives the stories of several ballads, such as "the monstrous fish" without actually giving their names.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 12:44 PM

Monto- Wearing of the Green
Down by the Liffey side - Goodbye and do not Cry, Down by Texas Way, Soldier's Song   

Rodney's Glory does have lyrics. They were composed by Eoghan Ruadh O'Suiillebhan (Owen Roe o Sullivan) - the last of the great Irish bards - within hours of the famous sea battle in which he had participated:
"Give ear ye British hearts of gold /That e'er disdain to be controlled/Good news to you I will unfold /'Tis of brave Rodney's glory......"
Daniel Corkery gives all eight verses in "Hidden Ireland" and tells the strange story of how the song came to be written .


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: PHJim
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 11:23 AM

Here's another of Cris's songs containing a couple of other songs:

Cris Cuddy's Boy From Beaumont


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: PHJim
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 11:15 AM

One of my favorite Cris Cuddy songs is called Keep The Change, about an all night joint that used to be in Peterborough, Ontario's East City. Here is the bridge and last verse:

Waitress bring me another cup of coffee and one more for my friend
We gotta hear some old time music,
Like The Lovesick Blues all over again
And we'll keep you good company until these blues are gone
So honey why don't you keep the change
And play the jukebox all night long
Yeah play the jukebox all night long

I'd like to hear Hank Snow sing I'm Movin' On
I wish that that was me
Six Days on the Road to Bluebird Island
My Calypso Sweetheart to see
But here I'm stuck in the same old town
Gotta finish up this song
So honey why don't you keep the change
And play the jukebox all night long


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 11:09 AM

On one of their albums for children Hilary James and Simon Mayor do their take on "Wait for the Wagon".

An instrumental break in the piece consists of Simon doing one phrase each of "The Sailor's Hornpipe", "The Trumpet Hornpipe" and "Turkey in the Straw", finishing with a tag which I think is his own...


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 08:45 AM

A verse from the 1920s made up entirely of titles of or references to other songs:

I want some Money
To give it to the Sheikh of Araby
Oh, aint it funny
Old friend, why don't you answer me,
Tippy canoe, jealous of you,
Hiawatha's melody of love, carbolic.
Here comes old beaver,
Floating down the stream to you.

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: PHJim
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 12:25 AM

The McGarrigle Sisters sang Work Song that contained the verse:

When I was a little thing
Papa tried to make me sing
Home Sweet Home and Aura Lee
These were songs that my daddy taught me
Camptown Races and Susannah Don't You Cry
Gentle Annie still brings a tear to my eye
Label it garbage, label it art
You couldn't call it soul, you had to call it heart


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Subject: Lyr Add: HAVING A PARTY (Sam Cooke)
From: GUEST,Lew becker
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 12:09 AM

How about the great Sam Cooke:

We're having a party
Dancin' to the music
Played by the DJ
On the radio

The Cokes are in the icebox
Popcorn's on the table
Me and my baby
We're out here on the floor

So, mister, Mr. DJ
Keep those records playin'
'Coz I'm havin' such a good time
Dancin' with my baby

Everybody's swingin'
Sally's doing that twist now
If you take requests I've
Got a few for you

Play that song called "Soul Twist"
Play that one called "I know"
Don't forget them "Mashed potatoes"
No other songs will do


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 03:37 PM

Mainly Norfolk; The Old Miner - Roy Palmer noted; An old miner at Haunchwood Pit, Nuneaton [Warwickshire], made up this song to a tune he had learned in his native Durham. John Moreton heard it in the early 1960s.

BBC Radio 4 Soul Music; The Miners' Hymn - Gresford - was written by a former miner, Robert Saint, to commemorate the Gresford pit disaster in 1934. It has been played at mining events ever since, most notably at the famous Durham Miners' Gala.

Beaton Institute Music; The Miners' Memorial Hymn was written by Horatius Bonar in memory of the miners that were killed during the The Gresford Disaster at the Gresford Colliery in Northeast Wales on September 22, 1934. Words by Horatius Bonar, Tune: "Gresford"

Go, labour on while it is day;
The world's dark night is hast'ning on;
Speed thy work, cast sloth away;
It is not thus that souls are won.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: DebC
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 03:23 PM

That's what I get for not reading the thread. And that should be Lou Killen.

Deb


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: DebC
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 03:21 PM

"The Rose In June" sung by Loui Killen and collected by Dr. Kenneth Goldstein has a hymn embedded in it complete with a verse and chorus.

Debra Cowan


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 12:03 PM

Doc Watson added more to "Did You Hear John Hurt":

We picked some together, John, Merle and me
Like a talkin' to Casey and ol' Stagger Lee
You can bet your money if you can't afford to lose
Man, you should've hear him play them "Monday Morning Blues"


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 11:25 AM

I was twenty one years when I wrote this song
I'm twenty two now but I won't be for long.

This has echoes of AE Housman too; When I was one and twenty from A Shropshire Lad.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Steve Howlett
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 08:49 AM

Kipling's "The Absent-Minded Beggar":
'When you've shouted "Rule Britannia": when you've sung "God Save the Queen"'.

And "The Old Miner": 'And who will sing the Miners' Hymn'.

(Does anyone know the Miners' Hymn?)


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 08:40 AM

Tom Paxton, Did You Hear John Hurt:

Did you hear John Hurt play the Creole Belle?
Spanish Fandango? That he loved so well?
And did you love John Hurt? Did you shake his hand?
Did you hear him play his Candy Man?


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 05:19 AM

Malcolm Hughes - regular attenders at Edinburgh Folk Club - has written a great song featuring a good number of the late Michael Marra's song titles.
Ian Davison - Glasgow songwriter - "There's Room Fur Us A' In the Dance" has a number of ceilidh dance tunes in between the verses (a bit like the Ballad of St Anne's Reel mentioned earlier in the thread.)


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 03:23 AM

A clever variation is purposely borrowing lines.

Paul Simon's "Leaves that are green" had the opening line lifted by Billy Bragg in "New England"

I was twenty one years when I wrote this song
I'm twenty two now but I won't be for long.

This however is different to songs evolving slightly differently in the oral tradition such as Matty Groves and Little Musgrave.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 03:22 PM

Just to mention a few,

How High's the Watergate (Phil Ochs) - Five Feet High and Rising
And Lovin' You (Tom Paxton & Bob Gibson) - Norwegian Wood
Getting Up Early (Tom Paxton & Bob Gibson) - Mr Tamburine Man
I Can't Escape (John Denver) - Leaving on a Jet Plane; Blowin' in the Wind; Games People Play

And...

I Hear America Singing (Shel Silverstein):
Drink With Thine Eyes
Auld Lang Syne
Itsy Bitsy Spider
Mercedes Benz
Take Me Out to the Ball Game
Oh Say Can You See
Nearer My God to Thee
Sh-boom Sh-boom
...and at least 10 more.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Feb 10 - 09:11 PM

Bicycle Race and Fat-Bottomed Girls (both by Queen) almost do that.

O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Feb 10 - 08:36 PM

And, of course, any song that mentions itself, such as "Turkey in the Straw", is infinitely recursive. However, a nontrivial cycle, such as two songs that mention each other, would be a real prize.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Young Buchan
Date: 04 Feb 10 - 04:33 PM

If you go into the DT and find The Band Played Waltzing Matilda (2) there is a parody about over-singing TBPWM. If it doesn't make your head hurt to think about it, this is actually a song within a song within a song!


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Young Buchan
Date: 04 Feb 10 - 04:26 PM

Someone (and I think it was Meic Stevens) did a rewrite of Hungry Army/Join the British Army which included the verse:

I learned to sing GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
The finest lady ever seen
And they gave me a bloody great death machine
When I joined the British Army.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THEY DON'T SING ME ANY MORE
From: Young Buchan
Date: 04 Feb 10 - 10:50 AM

Bit naughty, I suppose, but what about this - last verse in particular:

They Don't Sing Me Any More

My name is William Armstrong and a reiver is my trade
And with forty men around me I led many's the daring raid.
From Branxholm down to Carlisle I was feared both far and wide
And they called me KINMONT WILLIE all along the Liddleside.
The song they wrote about me it was known by rich and poor;
But the singers write their own songs now – they don't sing me any more.

My name is Henry Higgins and I didn't think it fair
That I should die by the perjury of that monster FANNY BLAIR.
They took me to the gallows and it's there that I was hung,
But the song they wrote about me still continued to be sung.
That song gave me the justice that in court I never saw;
But the singers write their own songs now – they don't sing me any more.

My name is Thomas Rattery and I worked the Mossburn seam;
I died there deep inside the pit far from the daylight's gleam.
I went to help my comrades that were trapped there by a fall,
And they wrote a song about me to make money for us all.
That song it kept my name alive, kept the wolf from the family's door;
But the singers write their own songs now – they don't sing me any more.

My name is not important as you may understand:
I'm THE FAMOUS FLOWER OF SERVING MEN, I'm THE FLOWER OF NORTHUMBERLAND.
I'm THE BLOOMING ROSE OF SOUTH WALES, I am CATCH ME IF YOU CAN,
Or I may be YOUNG RAMBLEAWAY or THE ROVING JOURNEYMAN.
Five hundred years I've lived with you – thought I'd live five hundred more;
But the singers write their own songs now – they don't sing me any more.

(Reference in verse 3 is DONYBRISTLE)


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 04 Feb 10 - 03:09 AM

A country song from a couple of decades ago:

"Amazing Grace" used to be her favorite song
Lord, where has my good girl gone.

Charles


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: C. Ham
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 03:43 PM

Tom Russell's song, "The Road It Gives, The Riad It Takes Away" mentions several songs: "Carrickfergus," "The Road to Mandalay," "Hallelujah," and "The Dutchman."

Anna McGarrigle's "Goin' Back To Harlan" mentions a bunch including: "Bells of Rhymney," "Hangman's Reel," "Devil's Dream," "Shady Grove," "Willie Moore," and Barbara Allen."

Tom Paxton's "When Annie Took Me Home" mentions "Spanish Is A Living Tongue."


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: GUEST,Ian Gill
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 03:23 PM

'Last Damn Song in the World' by Bill Caddick . Name checks scores of others.


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 02:22 PM

Your pretty little feet they tread so neat
Strike off the Morning Dew...


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Subject: RE: Songs within songs
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 02:11 PM

The Galway Shaul mentions
'The Blackbird, the Stacks of Barley, Old Rodney's Glory and the Foggy Dew', though they may only have been instrumentals until
'She sang each note, like an Irish Linnet'.


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