mudcat.org: BS: BNP on question time
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]


BS: BNP on question time

Azizi 23 Oct 09 - 12:27 PM
Tug the Cox 23 Oct 09 - 12:12 PM
Ruth Archer 23 Oct 09 - 10:22 AM
Azizi 23 Oct 09 - 10:10 AM
Ruth Archer 23 Oct 09 - 10:08 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 Oct 09 - 10:07 AM
Dave Hanson 23 Oct 09 - 10:07 AM
Mr Happy 23 Oct 09 - 10:04 AM
Azizi 23 Oct 09 - 09:58 AM
jeddy 23 Oct 09 - 09:51 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 23 Oct 09 - 09:41 AM
Dave Roberts 23 Oct 09 - 09:26 AM
Mr Happy 23 Oct 09 - 09:23 AM
Mr Happy 23 Oct 09 - 09:21 AM
Azizi 23 Oct 09 - 09:17 AM
Mr Happy 23 Oct 09 - 09:05 AM
The Borchester Echo 23 Oct 09 - 08:45 AM
Tug the Cox 23 Oct 09 - 08:36 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 23 Oct 09 - 08:15 AM
Azizi 23 Oct 09 - 08:10 AM
theleveller 23 Oct 09 - 08:01 AM
Chris Green 23 Oct 09 - 08:00 AM
Tug the Cox 23 Oct 09 - 07:55 AM
Chris Green 23 Oct 09 - 07:45 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 23 Oct 09 - 07:21 AM
GUEST,Joe Grundy 23 Oct 09 - 07:09 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 23 Oct 09 - 07:02 AM
theleveller 23 Oct 09 - 06:58 AM
Chris Green 23 Oct 09 - 06:18 AM
bubblyrat 23 Oct 09 - 05:58 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 23 Oct 09 - 05:43 AM
Chris Green 23 Oct 09 - 05:31 AM
Banjiman 23 Oct 09 - 05:29 AM
Ed. 23 Oct 09 - 05:28 AM
The Borchester Echo 23 Oct 09 - 05:20 AM
Banjiman 23 Oct 09 - 05:12 AM
MGM·Lion 23 Oct 09 - 05:09 AM
Banjiman 23 Oct 09 - 05:05 AM
MGM·Lion 23 Oct 09 - 04:54 AM
Banjiman 23 Oct 09 - 04:49 AM
Richard Bridge 23 Oct 09 - 04:43 AM
GUEST,Jenny brampton 23 Oct 09 - 04:32 AM
GUEST,Jean Morrison 23 Oct 09 - 04:16 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 23 Oct 09 - 04:14 AM
Folk Form # 1 23 Oct 09 - 04:01 AM
Banjiman 23 Oct 09 - 03:42 AM
Smedley 23 Oct 09 - 03:40 AM
Dave Hanson 23 Oct 09 - 03:16 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 23 Oct 09 - 03:13 AM
VirginiaTam 23 Oct 09 - 02:49 AM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 12:27 PM

I've several questions about British cultural practices/terms:

1. What is the meaning of the red flower lapel pins that the moderator and all the panelists wore during last night's Question Time show? (I also noticed that one audience member-The Black man who asked about immigration-wore the same pin.)

2. What does "Do a whip up" mean? I'm guessing it means informally gather up money from various people, like the [American] saying? "pass the hat." Is that right?

3. I've noticed that a number of commentators on British blogs and on Mudcat also don't always capitalize racial and ethnic referents such as "Asian" [see Tug the Cox's post above]. Is this a commonly accepted practice? It appears to be and if so the practice is different in the USA. I believe this could be negatively misconstrued if people aren't aware of the differences in such a cultural/national practice.

4. With regard to the statement "It was in the White Islands and Highlands, however, that one would met the most explicit racism.", are those locations in Britain? I suppose the name "White Islands" has nothing to do with skin color. Is that right?

I'm asking these questions just because I'm curious, though I realize these are minor points.

Thanks in advance for your responses.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 12:12 PM

You are quite right, Ruth. I used to be involved in multi-cultural and ant-racist eduction in Leicester. here there were several areas with high a concentration of people from Asia, and of asians expelled from East Africa. It was in the White Islands and Highlands, however, that one would met the most explicit racism.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 10:22 AM

' Of course, this is Mr. Easton's opinion, and I'm not sure that I buy his view that "It is not the fact that the new arrivals look different; it is that they behave differently." '

Mark Easton may well be referring to the fact that the largest sector of new immigrants in Britain DON'T look different - they are Eatern European. But they do, of course, behave differently - they have specialist shops that sell their food, they speak their own language in the street. Because new immigrants gravitate to places where they have friends or relatives to help them get a foot on the ladder, immigration does tend to be concentrated in particular neighbourhoods and towns - twas always thus, and not just in Briatin. So yes, SOME neighboruhoods (by no means all) are experiencing very rapid change. The problem comes when inflammatory and inaccurate reporting in the press, or within politics, exaggerates this change to make it appear to be the rule, rather than the exception. Given that Britain is still something like 90% white British, it really IS the exception: a number of places in Britain are very culturally diverse. An awful lot more aren't. What happens, IMHO, is that the former situation is used as a bugbear with which to frighten people living in largely white, middle-class places: "It'll be your street next. They'll take away your way of life! They'll make you live like they do!" People are frightened of change - they are told change will be forced upon them. They become defensive and insular.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 10:10 AM

Here's another excerpt of that same blog post written by Mark Easton:

"This is a problem because it is the recent arrival of people from different ethnic backgrounds into predominantly white communities which is the cause of one of the anxieties underlying the programme. It is not the fact that the new arrivals look different; it is that they behave differently. But neighbourhoods are being transformed because people from other cultures are moving in there. Rapid social change is often linked to ethnic change - and people are disturbed by that."

-snip-

Of course, this is Mr. Easton's opinion, and I'm not sure that I buy his view that "It is not the fact that the new arrivals look different; it is that they behave differently."

That was my first reaction to that sentence. My second reaction was to wonder how and when new arrivals to Britain are behaving differently. Speaking for myself (as I always do), some differences in behavior would cause me concern (like people walking around with no clothes on) while others would be either interesting, positive, or none of my business (like people chosing to wearing their tradition clothing or eat their foods from their culture of origin).

Here's a reader's comment to that particular portion of that blog post:

#3-1:13pm on 23 Oct 2009, The Magic Tramp wrote:


[The above excerpt quoted]

"There is a little logical inconsistency in your approach Mark Easton, ironically, one you share with the BNP.

The claim that people are concerned about immigrant behaviour is not born out by the facts. For example, Mr Griffin complained that he had a less sympathetic audience in West London because it is no longer a British city, that the 'indigenous' community is in the minority. However, the audience appeared to have a skin-colour mix that would suggest a high percentage of of them would be considered British by the BNP, yet there was an overwhelming support from the vast majority of the audience for positions that were against the BNP.

Similarly, if you look at the distribution of BNP candidates for local councils they tend to come from areas of low immigration. And, if the recently released BNP membership lists are to be taken at face value, then the membership from areas with high levels of mixed ethnicities is incredibly low.

So how is it possible that the rise of the BNP, and the general rise of racial concern in the population, is engendered by different cultural behavior but does not seem to provoke political action from the white populations in those areas?"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 10:08 AM

To be honest, I did think it was a bit daft for that audience member to get hung up on a relatively minor point of semantics when there were far deeper issues at hand. You have to choose your battles, really. Dimbleby even said "coloured" at one point, but it was allowed to pass by the panel and the audience, presumably because his actual interrogation of the policies of the BNP were rather more important.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 10:07 AM

Mark easton is a BBC journalist.
He hosts a regular blog on their website.http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 10:07 AM

Someone ought to tell Griffin that when you start insulting someone else's parents       you've lost.

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 10:04 AM

Some stuff herehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Griffinabout Griffin's father.

Looks like the lad underwent some brainwashing during his early socialisation


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:58 AM

Thanks for posting those links, Mr. Happy.

Here's a link to a post-program discussion that I find interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/10/do_you_speak_race.html

Do you speak Race?
Mark Easton | 12:42 UK time, Friday, 23 October 2009


[And let me say at the onset that I have absolutely no clue who Mark Eston is and what his politics are either.]

Here's an excerpt of that blog post:

"A telling moment on last night's Question Time did not involve Mr Griffin at all. It was an exchange between Jack Straw and a black woman in the audience.

This is what she said:

"The parties must listen because, one of the things, I am sitting here and every time Jack Straw or somebody or one of the panel says 'Afro-Caribbean', I am cringing."
(The justice minister holds up his hands in apology.)

"Afri-CAN Ca-RIB-bean!" the woman corrects him.
Discussing race in this country is to walk on egg-shells. When even an experienced signed-up multiculturalist like Mr Straw gets caught out, it becomes obvious how difficult it is even to find the language in which to conduct a grown-up debate about it...

People generally don't want to offend and the shifting sands of acceptable racial vocabulary mean that many dare not even step into the territory. It is a dangerous domain - one false move and you are branded a bigot.

Part of the problem has been the absence of formal public debate about race. Mainstream politicians have tended to opt out or dodge the subject, so the boundaries of acceptable discourse are poorly understood - even by our Parliamentarians.

Last night's programme saw all the panellists try to shift the discussion away from the question of race onto less troublesome terrain.

"This is not a race debate, this is a debate about resources," said the Conservative Sayeeda Warsi, adding that she didn't want a BNP-style discourse "about black and brown people". (I suspect few white politicians would ever dare employ the phrase "brown people", incidentally). All are happy to see the discussion shifted onto safer ground.

Nick Griffin used the expression "indigenous British people" to describe the constituency he seeks to represent.

"The whites!" retorted jack Straw, keen to push the BNP leader into the race debate. "Skin colour's irrelevant, Jack, skin colour's irrelevant," Mr Griffin responded, as anxious as the rest to avoid the elephant traps of a debate about ethnicity."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: jeddy
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:51 AM

it is nice to see you making a good and intelligent contribution to the thread JB. keep the in depth analyisis coming please.

now .... did anyone else notice that our loverly nick, kept making huge mistakes when he got annoyed or flustered?

like when he was talking about section 28?

i love the fact that 8 million people tuned in, and watched an incompatant fool.

greer, although funny, was abit of a wasted seat as far as i could see.

someone said something about the consevartive woman, wazzi? is it?
that she was blatantly homophobic? i have never heard of her before.

most of what she was saying made sense, she was the one who tackled immigration with any sort of forward vision as far as i can remember. i will rewatch the programme just to make sure of this.

i thought jack straw was very good at not letting nick draw him into the my daddy did this arguement. it must have been very tempting.

on the whole i thought the programme was brilliant. nick had the oppotunity to speak up, but was happy to let them others do most of the work. he came accross as way in over his head.
he tried to makehim selk more likeable by laughing at himself, and was sucking up too much to greer. in normal cercomstances we would have blanked her or insulted her, but knew he had to appear reasonable. greer did turn her back on him alot, i am not sure if this was a snub, or she was talking to the audiance?

have a great day everyone

jade x x x x


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:41 AM

"".....an incompetent idiot""

That's about right.

He's not even competent at being an idiot.

How dumb is that?

Don T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:26 AM

Mr Griffin came across on this programme as an incompetent idiot.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:23 AM

Azizi,

For your information, David Dimbleby here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Dimbleby


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:21 AM

Sorry, pressed button too soon.

You can see whole thing on that link, G-Man digging himself into a big hole!

One've the highlights, among many, was when an audience questioner's Freudian slip caused a loud ripple of amusement & many nodding heads, when he addressed him as 'DICK'!

Too right, what a dick!!

More 'know your enemy' stuff here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin#cite_note-Ryanp62-22


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:17 AM

Do I hear an echo? ;o)

Here's for true confessions:

I never heard the name "Dimbleby" until last night while reading about the show with Griffin and the rest. And I still know nothing about Mr. Dimbleby except for what Richard wrote in his 23 Oct 09 post about him being "a flagship political commentator for the BBC"
etc.

That's the extent of my knowledge about "the overwhelming importance and ubiquity in broadcasting of the Dimbleby dynasty".

And I know absolutely nothing about Tory life peers, Baroness or otherwise. But-to quote a comment that I made in an above the line thread on another subject-I'm neither proud nor ashamed of that fact.

Some might say that I'm culturally deprived. But I know that it's just a matter of there always being more to learn about other nations as well as about your own nation.

But enough about me. On with the show! As Ed Sullivan used to say.

You do know who Ed Sullivan was, don't you? And if not, maybe it's because you live in a different nation than I do or you're a different age, and have different interest than me.

So The Borchester Echo, please excuse my feeble play on words regarding your screen name and my attempt to include a touch of lightheartedness to this thread. It seems to me that heavy duty threads like this might need a light touch of lightheartedness. But I definitely recognize the seriousness of this subject.

Best wishes,

Azizi


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:05 AM

http://www.youtube.com/user/QuestionTimeBNP#p/u/0/-jQsTtbR1OU


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 08:45 AM

And who's this Azizi that's crept into the discussion?

I don't creep. I leap.



I'd have thought being confused by someone with a Tory life peer would be cause for considerable alarm.
And are you really unaware of the overwhelming importance and ubiquity in broadcasting of the Dimbleby dynasty?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 08:36 AM

From a news report
More than eight million people tuned in to watch Mr Griffin on the programme - around three times the usual number of viewers and just over half of the potential audience.

   hmmmmm, as if they didn't know that would happen. Await ITV and other commercial stations queuing up to cash in on the advertising revenue. people who think he was 'unfairly treated' as he claims wil be calling for him to have a 'proper chance to explain his policies'. I'd wager that more than a few of the disenfranchised are now seeing the BNP in a better light. Well done BBC!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 08:15 AM

A memory I shall cherish for a very long time.

A member of the public saying to Nick Griffin

"There's a lot of us who would be happy to hold a whip round to buy you a ticket to the Antarctic. That's a colourless landscape which would suit you down to the ground".

And all the weasel could manage was a nod and a sickly grin.

The worst thing that can happen to the BNP is for Nasty Nick to remain their leader.

On a scale of one to ten his credibility is about minus twenty.

Don T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 08:10 AM

And who's this Azizi that's crept into the discussion?

LOL!

I don't creep. I leap.

Sometimes I read threads
but don't let out a peep.
Some comments put me to sleep.
And a few have made me weep.

But if I were on that panel.
What Griffen sowed
he would have reaped.
Cause I don't creep. I leap.


-snip-

Okay. I never said that I was a song composer or a rapper.

And I know that adding that "ed" ending to "reaped" means that technically that word doesn't rhyme with "creep". But I wanted to end with a bit of hip-hop braggadocia about how I'd take out that scum Griffin.

So there ya go.

:o)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 08:01 AM

Well said, Chris. As regards the election of two BNP MEPs, some of us are working to ensure that it doesn't happen again. As a voter in one of the constituencies wherE it happened, I say NOT IN MY NAME.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 08:00 AM

Thank you Tug! That's an image that'll be with me for quite some time!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 07:55 AM

As a co-panelleist, wouldn't you have loved to see griffin sitting next to Muhammed Ali in his prime?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 07:45 AM

I'm well aware that racism can cut both ways. I'm not a halfwit and don't patronise me. However, my previous post concerned a specific event that is a matter of public record and that affected me personally. I note that you chose not to respond with a similar account of such an event, confining yourself instead to the rather nebulous 'A lot of Black on White crimes'. Why didn't you feel able to do this? Because they're not publicised? Then how do you know about them? Have you had or do you have a friend who has direct experience of such a crime? Or do you take your facts from the School of What Some Bloke Down the Pub Said? I suspect the latter, but am perfectly happy to be shown otherwise through evidence of the kind that I've supplied.

And incidentally Griffin didn't account for himself at all. He hid behind his usual cocktail of lies and inflammatory rhetoric. FFS, his opening gambit was to try and discredit Jack Straw by bringing up that his father was a conchie! Anyone with any confidence in the validity of their message wouldn't have to resort to puerile mud-slinging along the lines of 'my dad's harder than your dad'.

If that's your definition of 'accounting well for yourself' then I shan't wait with baited breath for a cogent and coherent response to my first paragraph!

However, before this gets too divisive, let's try and find some common ground. I too never thought I'd see the day when the BNP got two MEPs elected.

I'll remember it for the rest of my life as the first day I ever felt abjectly ashamed and embarrassed to be English.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 07:21 AM

""Racism also works the other way, Chris.
A lot of Black on White crimes are never publicised
""

I don't know what news media YOU follow mate, but my telly screen is regularly, and frequently, passing on the details of black criminals' trials and convictions, as well as white.

I should get rid of that chip on your shoulder for a start. That should ease you breathing problems.

Don T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: GUEST,Joe Grundy
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 07:09 AM

Racism also works the other way, Chris.
A lot of Black on White crimes are never publicised.

Overall, I thought Nick Griffin accounted for hisself very well against such a hostile baying mob.

I thought I'd never see the day when the BNP would have 2 MEPs elected, what with me farmer's lung an' all ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 07:02 AM

""There are ways in which people can both legitimately and effectively make their views known about organisations like the BNP-----last night's riotous assembly was not,sadly,one of them.""

Have you noticed anyone here supporting the actions of those rioters?

Before deciding that all the protesters were of the same stamp, it might be wise to scan your memory banks for evidence of all the previous peaceful protests which have been hi-jacked by opposing factions, precisely to evoke the kind of knee jerk response you have just demonstrated.

It may be that some small section of the protesters stupidly carried things too far. It may equally be that planted BNP supporters fomented trouble to make Griffin look like the victim of a witch hunt.

Perhaps we would be wiser to reserve judgement until we KNOW what occurred, otherwise peaceful protest is impossible in the future.

Don T.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 06:58 AM

And where, bubblyrat, is your condemnation of the lawless, violent and intimidating thugs seen at every pro-BNP rally - and, indeed, who roam our streets and harass people going about their lawful business? That is what the police have to deal with every day of the year. It is totally legitimate to protest against these fascist thugs. Try to see the bigger picture or you will be accused of prejudice.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 06:18 AM

Okay, for living people, off the top of my head - BZ, Sanjeev Bhaskar (as he's really funny) and Tony Benn (just to show Griffin what a real politician is like!)

If we're going with dead people as well, I'd like to nominate my family's GP, Dr Amal Dharry. I was quite a sickly child (to use a Victorian expression) and I saw a lot of him when I was a toddler. He was patient, kind and knowledgable.

He was stabbed to death in 1981 by a racist thug, for no other motive than because he was Indian. I remember my mum trying to explain to me why he was dead, and even at the age of 5 the idea that someone would kill someone else merely because of the colour of their skin struck me as utterly baffling. I'm now 32 and it still does.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: bubblyrat
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:58 AM

I watched some of the programme,and some of the news coverage of it.I have to say that what frightens and worries me is not the BNP.It's not the "Fascist thugs" who seem to have thoroughly disconcerted many of you out there ( presumably their objective ??) ; what I found most disturbing was the behaviour of the screaming ,lawless rabble who were seemingly hell bent on storming the BBC building,with no regard to the protocols of legal peaceful protest. I feel really sorry for the police on occasions such as this.There are ways in which people can both legitimately and effectively make their views known about organisations like the BNP-----last night's riotous assembly was not,sadly,one of them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:43 AM

Mr Green....Agree absolutely.
Benjamin (who is a really nice guy BTW!)...How about Billy Bragg,...you can add more names here,!
Sticking up sad old politicians, who are being too careful of their comments, ahead of an election in a few months time...(Got to protect those expensives claims after all..)
Bob Geldorf anyone?
OK...Challenge to you all.
Panellists would be....(Living or Dead!)
1. Nick Griffin
2. ............
3. ............
4. ............
5. ............


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:31 AM

Just a thought ahead of the inevitable next time The Beeb let him back on QT (cos let's face it, there's no way they'll pass up the sky-high viewing figures it'll generate!) Where was Benjamin Zephaniah? He's been on QT a few times in the past: he's witty, articulate, thought-provoking, Black British, a genuinely nice bloke so far as I can tell... well, everything that Griffin isn't, basically! Anyone else think he'd be a good candidate to make Quasimodo look even more dopey than he already does?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:29 AM

"And who's this Azizi that's crept into the discussion? Baroness Warsi's first name is Sayeeda."

I've admitted to confusion, sorry.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Ed.
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:28 AM

And who's this Azizi that's crept into the discussion?

If you have to ask that, then you're a total fool...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:20 AM

Bonnie Greer doesn't own the golly jam badges personally. They are on museum display as items of cultural history. To cite them is as fatuous as Nasty Nick's attempt to smear Jack Straw for the stance his father took on conscription before he was even born.

And who's this Azizi that's crept into the discussion? Baroness Warsi's first name is Sayeeda.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:12 AM

Just Friday.... yes clearly confused! Thank you for the correction, and sorry Azizi!

Doesn't negate my point though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:09 AM

Azizi? I think you must mean Warsi. Azizi is our friend from Pittsburgh who contributes so much to these forums. Are you a bit confused?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 05:05 AM

MtheGM. As always these things are subjective. I have to say that to my mind Azizi was by far the most impressive on the night..... and I'm along way from being a Tory supporter.

I heard no fresh thinking from Huhne and I thought his presentation was poor. I am struggling to remember any significant input he had into the debate.

Agree my remark was a little facetious, sorry.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:54 AM

Silly remark about the Lib Dem, Banji. He was actually far the most fluent & cogent speaker. I am not a Lib Dem & think it absurd they are even regarded as a 'major party', as they have as much chance of ever forming a govt, or even holding a genuine balance, as of swimming the Atlantic. But Huhne was still the best of them last night, so don't be petty and fatuous.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:49 AM

I though Straw was just about OK but missed a few glaring points that he should have made. Including the key point that immigration policy should have nothing to do with race. It was left to Azizi to make this point, Jack should have got in there first, he had the opportunity.

There was a Lib Dem on as well? Didn't notice!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:43 AM

Now we know you are a BNP troll Jean.

Frankly, I thought Greer's two cracks - one (repeatedly) about Griffin needing to read books or learn things, and the other about him having only a 2:2 degree (which I kind of like, since I have two) were feeble school debate stuff.

Straw I thought displayed that he was well informed and made some very powerful arguments, but was not very effective on the Labour immigration position - partly thanks to Dimbleby running interference.

Azizi, Dimbleby (the chairman) has been a flagship political commentator for the BBC for about 40 years and a major part of the delight of Question Time is that he puts all the panellists even-handedly on the spot, which this time he didn't. He had quite a pop at Griffin and Straw, a very minor dig at the Baroness and the Lib-dem, and appeared to let Greer do exactly as she pleased.

But overall although as I presaged the "the establishment ganged up on us" will be a chant from the BNP, Griffin probably undermined himself with anyone who was not already sucked into his doctrines of hate.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: GUEST,Jenny brampton
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:32 AM

Jade: '
ps is it obvious i am stoned?    LOL x x x ' is that funny? Is that something to be proud of?
JB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: GUEST,Jean Morrison
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:16 AM

Greer owns the finest collection of Robertson's metal badges in Britain. She has them on display in the British museum.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:14 AM

I wonder...(hopefully), how many of the protesters in London yesterday actually voted in the last Council/European elections here in the UK?
Of course I hate the BNP and all it stands for, but, we live in a democracy in the UK...so, come on people...vote for somebody. anybody!!! No it's not as much fun as being dragged out of a Television reception centre, but....It's the only way to go. Vote...!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:01 AM

I think it is outrageous that the BBC should invite a man as boring as Jack Straw on it's show.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:42 AM

I thought Greer and Warnsi came over as very credible and dignified. I especially liked the moment when Greer invited "Dick" Griffin to come and read the books on British history that she had put aside for him at The British Museum. She said he needed to read them. The poor woman hd to sit beside Griffin...... you could see her skin crawl when he touched her.

You have to admire Warnsi as well, I thought she was the perfect foil for Griffin given her background. She dismissed him and his arguments with just the right amount of scorn. I'm no fan of the Tories but I had to admire her.

Griffin himself came over as a unprincipled, one dimensional buffoon who was quite happy to try and re-write his own history ..... and everyone elses. I really don't think he gained anything from this TV appearance.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Smedley
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:40 AM

To me, Griffin came across as stupid, self-contradictory, bigoted, pernicious, petty, and waaaaaaaaaay out of his depth.

But then that's what I always assumed he is. In other words, nothing I saw changed my views.

Listening late last night & this morning to callerts and comments to other TV and radio shows, however, another discourse in emerging: that he was 'bullied, 'ganged up on', 'set up', and that the rest of the panel and the majority of the audience were 'unrepresentative'.

These views are coming, I would imagine, either from entrenched BNP sympathisers or from others at the right-wing end of the spectrum. They are seeing him as a victim.

All in all, the programme worked to confirm people's pre-existing views.

I always knew he was a slug, now I have some more evidence. But I have grave doubts as to whether anyone who previously supported him, or was thinking of doing so, had their ideas budged one inch.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:16 AM

Someone should have asked him why, when he is out and about he is constantly surrounded by BNP thugs.

Dave H


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:13 AM

Hi Azizi.
Very interesting to get a US slant on our little islands TV progs! (No, Really!)
Hope you didn't miss the Griffin assertion that the the KKK had a non-violent section!. Almost fell off my sofa!
In fact, The programme will probably have acheived nothing, apart from one thing. Pro BNP people, and Anti BNP people, will just dig into there respective holes even more.
It's the disenfranchised and marginalised people of the UK who, having been left wanting by all the major political parties on such subjects as immigration, etc, That the BNP seem to be targeting.
(Although, having said that. The BNP acquired 2 members of the European Parliament earlier this year...not because more people voted for them ...they didn't, but because all the main parties here in the UK have lost touch with the inhabitants of these islands.
Did have a "Been there, seen that" moment, when Griffin was asked to define "Indigenous Britains"
Substitite "Folkies" for "Britains" and 1000 Mudcat threads hove into view!
But thank you for your interest!
Regards Ralphie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: BNP on question time
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 02:49 AM

I too found Greer and Warnsi a bit tedious. Don't get me wrong, I like Greer, just not in this setting.

Griffin's, ludicrous justification of Islamaphobia because the Koran objectifies women, cast in the light of the historic BNP statement that "rape is not a crime" was telling. Why did no one call him on that?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 21 January 7:25 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.