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BS: UK immigration too high?

Don(Wyziwyg)T 16 Nov 09 - 12:25 PM
bubblyrat 16 Nov 09 - 12:38 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 16 Nov 09 - 02:03 PM
Royston 16 Nov 09 - 06:24 PM
ard mhacha 17 Nov 09 - 05:41 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Nov 09 - 08:32 AM
ard mhacha 17 Nov 09 - 10:05 AM
ard mhacha 17 Nov 09 - 10:09 AM
The Sandman 17 Nov 09 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau 17 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Nov 09 - 01:40 PM
GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau. 17 Nov 09 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau 17 Nov 09 - 01:57 PM
The Sandman 17 Nov 09 - 02:10 PM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Nov 09 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,Gary 17 Nov 09 - 05:54 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 17 Nov 09 - 06:42 PM
Dave the Gnome 17 Nov 09 - 09:55 PM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Nov 09 - 02:07 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Nov 09 - 02:13 AM
The Sandman 18 Nov 09 - 04:58 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Nov 09 - 05:54 AM
Folkiedave 18 Nov 09 - 06:19 AM
The Sandman 18 Nov 09 - 06:27 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Nov 09 - 07:54 AM
The Sandman 18 Nov 09 - 10:17 AM
GUEST,Lass in Leeds 18 Nov 09 - 11:34 AM
The Sandman 18 Nov 09 - 12:49 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 18 Nov 09 - 02:51 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 18 Nov 09 - 03:05 PM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Nov 09 - 03:09 PM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Nov 09 - 03:54 PM
Dave the Gnome 18 Nov 09 - 03:58 PM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Nov 09 - 05:25 PM
Tug the Cox 18 Nov 09 - 07:33 PM
Keith A of Hertford 19 Nov 09 - 02:29 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 19 Nov 09 - 05:18 AM
Tug the Cox 19 Nov 09 - 05:30 AM
Keith A of Hertford 19 Nov 09 - 05:52 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 19 Nov 09 - 05:58 AM
Keith A of Hertford 19 Nov 09 - 06:07 AM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Nov 09 - 02:26 AM
Tug the Cox 20 Nov 09 - 11:39 AM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM
Tug the Cox 20 Nov 09 - 09:05 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Nov 09 - 01:17 AM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Nov 09 - 01:18 PM
Keith A of Hertford 21 Nov 09 - 01:21 PM
GUEST 21 Nov 09 - 04:38 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 12:25 PM

""Major premise, I do not want to live in the England of the projections.""

But where would you go Keith?

Abroad is absolutely full of the foreigners you want to keep out.

Is there anywhere in the world that lives up to the exacting, foreigner free standards, which you have outline in dozens of threads?

Me?.....I'll stay put, and find out what effect an influx of new blood has on this multicultural land. After all, it's done well enough out of 2000 years of immigration.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 12:38 PM

Too many foreigners flooding in to an already -overcrowded,over-populated,small island that doesn't have the infrastructure to cope with the sheer numbers.Nothing racist or xenophobic about that----it is just PURE COMMON SENSE !


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 02:03 PM

""it is just PURE COMMON SENSE !""

Not much of PURITY about it...No matter how loudly you shout.

In 2000 years, there has never been a DAY when this country didn't have a significant immigrant population, and today is no different.

"Too much" is a totally subjective concept.

Too much for whom?....You?.....And why is your assessment more likely to be right than mine, or Richard's?

There is no indication that the infrastructure of this country is collapsing under the weight of immigrants.

More likely, upon logical analysis, is the suggestion that it is in danger of collapsing under the weight of this government's incompetence.

Five percent of a population cannot even significantly influence the choice of government, let alone cause the collapse of a nation's economic structure.

Dear Gordon having saddled every man, woman, and child with thousands of pounds of debt, we might end up being happy to have those immigrants sharing the burden of repayment.

The only complaint I have relating to (but not the fault of) immigrants, is the practice of foreign firms paying wages far below our legal minimum, and then using these low paid workers to carry out work in this country.

That is where the stories of Poles undercutting Brits come from, and it is that which should be stamped on....HARD!

DonT.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Royston
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 06:24 PM

Guest: Falco

You are the voice of reason. Yes it is right and proper to feel concerned about population and provision issues. If people are needed; for economic growth or to support senior citizens/retirees, then the only issue that need give cause for concern is the challenge of providing the schools/dentists/doctors/houses for all the necessary and productive workers.

The answer is not to restrict the producers of societal wealth. It is to provide enough of the support mechanisms those producers require.

If, as some 'guests' claim, some migrant or indigenous people take the piss out of our welfare state then that is justification for enforcement against piss takers including the feckless white trash BNP voters; not justification for persecuting immigrants.

Keith A, in the absence of immigrant scapegoats, would not advocate sterilization of white britons to control the growth of the socially needy...or would he?

Keith, I didn't stop arguing against your stupidity, I am really busy. Working in Angola of late.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 05:41 AM

We should all be thanking Dr Barnardos, all of the other institutions, and of course the British politicians for shipping out all of those poor chidren to the colonies.
Just think Britain would have been bursting at the seams, that is what I call forward thinking.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 08:32 AM

My concern on immigration is just about numbers, not race.
The same concerns are expressed by the Prime Minister, the government, the Libdems and the Tories.
You people are way out on an extreme, radical wing.
Don T you are wrong again. There has never been immigration on anything approaching this scale before.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 10:05 AM

Surely Keith the Irish potato famine,the country was reduced from 9 million in 1841 to 2.5 million in 1850, England was then swamped by the fleeing Irish.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 10:09 AM

That should read 6.2 million in 1850.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 12:48 PM

Why are you concerned about numbers,you now have the opportunity to live anywhere in Europe.
if you dont like England any more you can leave.
So there is a problem waiting for dentists,well maybe we could with a few immigrant dentists to reduce the wait.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM

I agree with Don in the thread above re staffing in hospitals would be down if not staffed by folk from overseas.

This is true and the reason is that all our nurses and doctors have had to go overseas to pratish doctoring and nursing because the British goverment is to bloody stingy and tight to finacnce uk citizens who demand decent wages.

So instraed they go abroad to Saudia Arabia and the USA where the wages are much better. My sister has been in (Saudi for 10 years)

The government cannot just do away with the NHS and make everyone pay for there health
so they fill the vacancies with folk from, overseas who will work for half the wages saving millions of £s but those millions of £s saved does not clearly get put back into the NHS SYSTEM. The money saved is used to fund over things .
What happened to the body scanner that was funded from public money and jumble sales and events when the Brook hospital closed back in the 80s. Fuuny how a bloody great scanner can just vanish without a trace.

Has for folk coming here from overseas to work in hospitals clearly it is improving there lives so good luck to them. I dont blames them
But in 20years time you can say farewell to the NHS you will be paying for your own hip replacemnets bloodtests you will have to get your own medical insurence on a yearly basis like car insurence. and it wont be cheep it will cost you thousands has they do in the USA. and that is what our government wants for over here.
The American way.
Its a disgusting.
Regards Pierre.,


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM

Ard, Ireland lost about 3million in that terrible decade.
All too many were deaths. Many others crossed the Atlantic.
Exact records of how many arrived here were not kept because they were british citizens.
Over the last ten years, almost three quarters of a million British people have left the UK and nearly 2.5 million immigrants have arrived. This rate of inflow is 25 times higher than any previous period of immigration since the Norman Conquest in 1066


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:40 PM

Schweik, yes I could leave, and tens of thousands do.
I suspect you will be unhappy if we get another Tory government, but would it drive you from the country of your home and family?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau.
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:42 PM

No offence to our friends across the pond this is not your fault it boils down to OUR UK spineless.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:57 PM

I get off the train at Waterloo East London when I go to work and I see on a regular basis a homelss man who has two stumps for legs he is clearly homeless and he gets around London on a bread crate with wheels on it. He uses his hand to push himself along. Its a pityous sight to see I asked myself how is this allowed to happen. Without that trolley nhe would be rolling bodily along the pavement.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:10 PM

Schweik, yes I could leave, and tens of thousands do.
I suspect you will be unhappy if we get another Tory government, but would it drive you from the country of your home and family?
yes it did,I left because I couldnt stand Thatcher,now stop Whingeing and get on your bike,take the advice of Norman Tebbitt.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 04:35 PM

Are you really saying that anyone who disapproves of government policy on anything should just leave the country???
What about my job?
What about my family settled here?
I only speak English.
I am 59.
But I must not object to anything, just leave the country!
You are a fool.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: GUEST,Gary
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 05:54 PM

I don't see Keith as a racist. I see him as a guy who loves his country and is proud to be British. He expressed an opinion and now he is getting it in the neck.

More than 2.5 million people have been allowed to flock through the "open door" into Britain.

Most of the newcomers have arrived from outside the EU, making a mockery of Government claims that an annual cap on migrants would have a limited effect. That is equivalent to the entire population of Greater Manchester. This has put a massive drain on public services.

It has also forced up the tax burden on already hard-pressed families and seen police forces pleading for more cash to deal with gangs of foreign criminals. Immigration is having a dramatic effect on our public services. It's one of the biggest reasons we're having to build so many new houses and concrete over our country.

Mass immigration is making all services scarcer and more expensive in terms of tax as a large number of Polish couples come to the UK to have their families and the British taxpayer are left to raise them.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 06:42 PM

""Don T you are wrong again. There has never been immigration on anything approaching this scale before.""

INDEED?

So tell us, O fount of all knowledge, What are the ONS immigration figures for the period 40BC - 2001AD as a percentage of total population? And what were the percentages of Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, Danes, Celts, Picts etc. etc. You must have those figures, since you claim to know that they were lower than today's.

You do talk some bollocks boy, and YOU are the one who is so fond of throwing the word FOOL around, fool.


""So there is a problem waiting for dentists,well maybe we could with a few immigrant dentists to reduce the wait.""

Strangely enough Dick, a huge proportion of our dentists are in fact Australian.

Guest, Gary,

Go and play with the traffic on the motorway of your choice. Nobody is swallowing this multi anonymous identities BNP crap anymore.

Don T.



Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 09:55 PM

Most of the newcomers have arrived from outside the EU

Have they? Any facts and figures to substantiate that claim?

Back to the main thread. I think that there is a genuine worry that overcrowding will become a problem. I don't think though that immigration is the cause though. Overcrowding will happen regardless of migration patterns, unless we have another world war, heaven forbid. Immigration may make it happen a little sooner but even the 2.5 million figure quoted is quite insignificant compared to the present population. I also believe that the tide is now moving back although I cannot quote any figures on that and I must make clear that this is my own observation.

Although only 3/4 of a million English people emmigrated do we have any figures on the number of previous immigrants who have now left? Anecdotal evidence, such that it is, leads me to believe that a lot of the Poles that arrived locally in the last few years have now returned home. Don't know about other nationalities because I have less reason to notice. It does seem as though a lot who came did not find the land of milk and honey they hoped for and have realised that they have more dentists, hospitals and schools back in Warsaw, Krakow and Bielystok!

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 02:07 AM

David, immigration from EU never reached that from outside.
Net immigration from EU is now approaching zero and is expected to remain in balance.
Don, unlike those on your side of this debate, I do not often resort to abuse. I called Schweik a fool because he thinks that whingers, ie anyone exercising their right to question the government, should go into exile.
The alternative in his vision of Britain, presumably, is to be dragged off at dead of night for re education.
We should fear the far Left as much as the far Right I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 02:13 AM

Don, you are right. I should not glibly use the word never when people like you are involved.
I could have been referring to the time when we were not an island couldn't I.
But only you might have thought so.
In all the debate in this country, I have never seen anyone else claim that the invasion of the ancient Kingdoms that we now call England, in the distant Dark Ages, when these lands were mainly wilderness, amid a welter of slaughter, had any relevance.
Please explain why you felt the need to bring it up here, and why my failure to mention it constitutes "bollocks"!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 04:58 AM

Keith,you asked me a question,and you scored an own goal,because I did leave my country.
you are free to live anywhere in Europe,if you dont like it take Tebbitts advice


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 05:54 AM

I do not like the ever increasing urbanisation and overcrowding of England, but I refuse to leave.
As I have said, I am not a lone voice crying in the wilderness.
All three of the main political parties agree that immigration has reached unacceptable levels. Polls show that the majority of the population agrees.
You would have us all leave?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 06:19 AM

It's one of the biggest reasons we're having to build so many new houses and concrete over our country.

Actually the biggest reason we are building so many houses is because many UK couples divorce.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 06:27 AM

you dont seem to understand the concept of Europe, England is now a European state,Europeans are free to live and work anywhere in Europe[that includes England].
this gives certain advantages to multinational capatilism,it also makes european wars less likely.
if you dont like it tough,[stop whingeing, your stuck with it] England decided to enter Europe,they did have the sense to keep their own currency,so they can devalue sterling whenever they like,as they have done recently to boost exports,but they are part of Europe.
that means under European law, Europan immigrants have a right to come to England,.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 07:54 AM

Schweik, we still have some autonomy.
Most of our immigration is from outside EU.
We have every right to decide the limits.
EU migration is approaching balance, but anyway many people argue that Britain should renegotiate or leave the EU.
We have the right to do that too.
Have a whinge about it if you like.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:17 AM

Most of our immigration is from outside EU.[lets have statistics].
why dont you move to northern ireland,they speak English.their economy is booming[all those shoppers from Eire].
it is your fault you only speak English.
do something about it learn another language.
you complain, why should you have to emigrate?why should the Irish have had to emigrate for hundreds of years?,now you know what it feels like.
Do what the Irish have had to do for years,get another job make a new home,and stop moaning,Brittania doesnt rule the waves any more,learn a new language and get on your bike,you support the Tory party,then take Norman Tebbits advice.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: GUEST,Lass in Leeds
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 11:34 AM

I think "Good Soldier Schweik" (GSS GOOD SWEATY SESSION)is trying to extract the Michael here. Please keep the posts civil gentlemen, it is a serious topic.

Thanks
Queenie


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:49 PM

I am serious,do what people from other countries have to do,they have to leave their countries to find work.
the trouble with the English is they are reluctant to learn another language,and they expect everyone else to learn English[which most foreigners do],and then become indignant[as does KeithA] when it is suggested they should learn another language,and possibly have to emigrate, no, the English are too good for that,why should they do what foreigners have to do.
people like ,Keith vote Tory,but expect everyone else other than them to take Tory Tebbitts advice.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 02:51 PM

""Don, unlike those on your side of this debate, I do not often resort to abuse. I called Schweik a fool because he thinks that whingers, ie anyone exercising their right to question the government, should go into exile.""

Reality check, Keith.

You have called Richard Bridge, and Royston, and numerous others "FOOL".........REPEATEDLY!

Have a look at your own posting record on threads dealing with immigration, and Ireland, just two subjects, and you will see just how often you have used that particular type of ill mannered language.

The fact that you have the bare faced effrontery to complain, and assert that you do not do this, lends credence to the characterisation of you as a liar by Richard and Royston.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 03:05 PM

""Please explain why you felt the need to bring it up here, and why my failure to mention it constitutes "bollocks"!""

Well then, in short words that you might understand. This country has for two thousand years been subject to foreign influx, and mostly, the end result has been positive.

There has never been the kind of "English Nation" that you and the BNP bleat on about, and that mixture of types and cultures led to a nation that was strong enough to populate the so called New World, and to manage an empire that owned one third of the rest.

So we've always been multicultural, and we've done pretty well on it.

So I say roll on the future, let's see where it leads next, and if it ain't broke, there's not much need to fix it.

And it AIN'T BROKE yet mate, in spite of what xenophobes and racists would have us believe.

Towns are crowded, even in underpopulated countries, and I don't see much evidence of people packed shoulder to shoulder outside of towns.



Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 03:09 PM

G.S. Scheik,
The Statistics Commission has confirmed that, leaving aside the movement of British citizens, 68% of foreign immigration in 2006 was from countries outside the European Union.1 The development of non-EU immigration since 1992 is shown in Figure 4.
Find that here. href="http://www.balancedmigration.com/pdfs/ourcase_1.pdf">http://www.balancedmigration.com/pdfs/ourcase_1.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 03:54 PM

Don,
If you think that anything that happened over a thousand years ago has any relevance to modern Britain, you are on your own.
Or can you come up with anyone else who thinks that?
If you are happy with immigration as it is, that is fine for you, but you are very nearly alone on that too.
Can you list any well known persons?
All the main parties and most of the population think you are wrong.

You say I bleat about an English Nation and link me with BNP.
Please explain.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 03:58 PM

Maybe we can look at it another way. It is generaly accepted that world has become a 'global village'. If that is the case then surely the issue is world overcrowding rather than national migration. If we look at a village, or council estate for us commoners, there are often a few houses that are overcrowded. It is not an issue usualy. If however the whole village/estate becomes too full we do have an issue. Do we have problems with the global village or the houses therin? I don't know - honestly. If the problem is the world then overcrowding in the UK pales into insignificance. If it is only in the UK then what the heck - we'll get over it. Maaybe the immigrants will bring their own doctors, dentists and teachers with them?

Cheers

DeG


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 05:25 PM

David, many of us are not badly effected by immigration.
But some are.
Here is some stuff about the effects on services.
http://www.balancedmigration.com/pdfs/ourcase_2.pdf
There is also a problem for many with housing and work.

To be content with current levels of immigration is a point of view, but it is an increasingly rare one.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 07:33 PM

And who are ..'balanced migration'

The co-Chairmen of the Cross-Party Group on Balanced Migration are Frank Field MP (Labour) and Nicholas Soames MP (Conservative).

The Group's Vice-Chairmen are Lord (Bill) Jordan CBE (former President of the Amalgamated Engineering and Electrical Union) and Daniel Kawczynski MP (Conservative, Shrewsbury & Atcham).

Other members include Baroness Cox, David Taylor MP, Field Marshal Lord Inge KG, GCB, PC, DL,
Lord Ahmed, Lord Carey (former Archbishop of Canterbury), Lord Skidelsky, Roger Godsiff MP,
Tobias Ellwood MP, Michael Ancram MP, Colin Burgon MP, Julian Brazier MP, Ann Cryer MP,
Ian Davidson MP, Peter Lilley MP, Lord Lamont, Lord Leach, Robert Key MP, Peter Kilfoyle MP, Peter Bottomley MP, Mr Archie Norman and Mr Hazhir Teimourian.

hardly fills you with confidence.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 02:29 AM

You can have every confidence in their facts Tug.
You can be sure that their enemies scrutinise everything they publish looking for something to nail them with.
Parliamentarians can get away with many things, but not being caught in a lie.
Especially not on such a sensitive subject.
That is why you can make snide innuendo, but you can not challenge a single one of those facts.
Can you?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:18 AM

""If you think that anything that happened over a thousand years ago has any relevance to modern Britain, you are on your own.""


I live in hopes that one day you will answer what an opponent says, instead of interpreting it to mean something entirely different, and then answering your interpretation.

You take my statement that in 2000 years of its history, this little bunch of Islands has always seen foreign influx, and on the whole, by assimilation, strengthened and improved the nation, and you try to claim that I am equating 2000 years old figures with today's figures.

You know very well that I was talking about an ongoing infusion of new blood, new ideas, and new achievements, and you can't find a sensible argument against that, so your only recourse is to change the premise to suit your heavily twisted perception.

Nobody has claimed that immigration should not be controlled. I would just prefer that it weren't controlled by anti foreigner bigots.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:30 AM

A third of schools in Blackburn and Leicester have a non-English speaking majority
while in Birmingham that figure is about a quarter

There's one false fact for a start. If you look at the footnote given, you will see that the figures about those for whom English is not a mother tongue....not non-English speaking people. Elsewhere bi-lingualism is celebrated as an achoievement.

Thw whole report seeks to colour the facts by using ambiguous and misleading language.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:52 AM

Don, I keep telling you it is about numbers not race.
Tug, it is about precise meanings.
A non English speaking child will have a few words of English after just a few days at school, so technically he is no longer a non English speaker, but he is still requiring of much extra attention.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:58 AM

""Don, I keep telling you it is about numbers not race.""

I know you keep telling me, and if you keep telling me for another decade you'll even believe it yourself. But I won't!

If all the thousands of British Expats all over the world started coming back tomorrow, you would object to them being allowed in?

YEAH RIGHT!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 06:07 AM

If they did we could not cope Don.
It is just about numbers.
What cause do you have to refuse to believe me?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:26 AM

I will answer for you then.
You have no cause to say that at all.
From the start I have only debated the practical and rational issues surrounding immigration.
I have been concerned only with numbers, never origins.
The only exceptions being when language is an issue, or when someone else has raised the issue of EU v non EU migration.
I described my views as in line with a cross party group that includes ethnic minority members and the last Archbishop of Canterbury.
Like them I have never advocated an end to immigration, but a reduction over a period of years to a state of balanced migration.
I am no racist so have never made a racist statement Don.
But you believe you can see beyond the posts of a member and straight into his soul.
Do you see yourself as a kind of Deity Don?
That would explain why, from your lofty moral superiority and knowledge, it is OK for you to be in favour of controlling immigration, but not a mere mortal.
It would also explain how you know that the arrival of people like the Jutes has improved our population, making us somehow better than others not so blessed.
Not racist when you say it.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:39 AM

Then lets be precise, having taught in multi racial schools in London and Leicester, I know that the vast majority of the kids for whom English was not the mother tongue were fluent in english...with a local accent. The report is deliberately misleading.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM

Are you being precise?
It would not apply to pupils born in UK, whose mother tongue would be recorded as English.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 09:05 PM

Keith, I am being absolutely precise. Non- English speakers is not a term you can find anywhere in government documents. As I illustrated above, this was a deliberately misleading usage introduced in the much vaunted report by the 'balanced ( sorry...reduced) immigration group. You then immediately tried to justify this with the rather absurd
A non English speaking child will have a few words of English after just a few days at school, so technically he is no longer a non English speaker, but he is still requiring of much extra attention.
Which has no warrant anywhere. You really have lost the respect I had for you as an assiduously honest reporter of facts ( I was always suspicious of your choice of facts). It is now clear that you will stoop to, and collude with, the most lowly of rhetorical usages in order to be 'right'. You're not, and I wish this corresp[ondence to cease.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:17 AM

Tug, if you are going to use one expression out of several pages in a report that I linked to for information, that is your right.
i do not know why they chose to use it, but you found a note explaining it so there was no deception.
I suspect that many of the pupils you taught were of immigrant families but had been born here and had some years in English schools.
Here is a BBC report on the issue so that you can not pretend that it is not an issue.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7372853.stm


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:18 PM

Another.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7306903.stm


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:21 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7072843.stm


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 04:38 PM

First time user on board.
I am hoping to find out if anyone knows anything about the hanging of Dr Lynn [United Irishman]in Randalstown in @1800, three days after Roddy McCorley?

Paul from Randalstown


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