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BS: UK immigration too high?

Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 09 - 05:27 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 09 - 05:22 PM
GUEST,Geordie 01 Oct 09 - 05:21 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 09 - 05:20 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 09 - 05:18 PM
Royston 01 Oct 09 - 05:15 PM
Lox 01 Oct 09 - 05:09 PM
irishenglish 01 Oct 09 - 05:09 PM
GUEST,Geordie 01 Oct 09 - 05:06 PM
Royston 01 Oct 09 - 04:39 PM
Royston 01 Oct 09 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,Geordie 01 Oct 09 - 04:31 PM
Royston 01 Oct 09 - 04:21 PM
Royston 01 Oct 09 - 04:10 PM
Lox 01 Oct 09 - 03:56 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Oct 09 - 03:55 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 09 - 03:54 PM
Emma B 01 Oct 09 - 03:43 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 09 - 03:40 PM
artbrooks 01 Oct 09 - 03:09 PM
Wesley S 01 Oct 09 - 02:58 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Oct 09 - 02:55 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:27 PM

Beware of replying to trolling guests.
They want to make people angry.
Joe will delete their posts and the replies will make no sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:22 PM

Royston,
"What I'm trying to understand is do you think we have a problem with current immigration, or historic immigration. Some immigrants or all of them? Should we reverse immigration or just stop or limit future immigration? "

Advocates of balanced migration advocate a gradual reduction over many years to achieve balance.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:21 PM

It's fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:20 PM

McGrath, my experience is similar, but would you advocate unlimited immigration because of it?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:18 PM

The arguments a flying fast.
Non EU immigration.
Figures are difficult to get, but in 2006 68% of foreign immigration was non EU.
Over a longer period it is 92%
EU migrants do not have to check in and out.
i million registered for work, but not all will have remained.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:15 PM

I also live in South London and know that Geordie is a liar.

I am safe and sound, I have no fear. I am in a white minority in my neighbourhood. I don't recognise Geordie's fantasy-land.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Lox
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:09 PM

I live in South London.

I can say that it doesn't exist.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: irishenglish
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:09 PM

I'd just like to reply to Geordie and say bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:06 PM

Britain has become a 'war zone' thanks to mass immigration. Parts of London and Manchester are more dangerous for the ordinary Brit than Iraq was for a British soldier.

London is one of the most dangerous cities in Europe. We live in an increasingly violent society where teen gun gangs hold whole suburbs hostage.

It the product of Black single parenthood, and their culture of carrying guns and peddling drugs.

It is the black community who brought gun and drug culture to the streets of South London, & Moss Side and Longsight in Manchester. You can't say it doesn't exist.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:39 PM

Geordie (but I doubt you'll stay and answer)

Where are your figures from?

No European can claim UK benefits of any sort without having lived here for at least 12 months. So why should an EU Citizen who has paid tax in this country be excluded from the benefits?

But first and foremost, where are your figures from?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:35 PM

But to answer the original question, is UK Immigration too high (pending Keith's clarifications) I would say, in general terms...

The British went out and dominated the planet by way of an Empire. We took an enormous amount of wealth and accrued an almighty set of privileges for ourselves.

As Empire was disbanded, we invited planned numbers of British Citizens from the Imperial Colonies to come and live in Britain and continue to be British. Those British Citizens happen to have been Indian, Pakistani, African and Caribbean by descent.

They were as entitled to live here on these islands as any other British Citizen.

I believe they and their descendants have enriched our Great nation in the period since 1945 and helped forge modern Britain as much as any other hard-working British person has.

In figures that Keith and I agree on, immigration ticked over unremarkably until 1997 or therabouts when, like the rest of the Western World, we launched ourselves into the great economic bubble (boom, if you will). The immigration rate increased again because we needed an awful lot of tax-paying workers. The proof of that need lies in the fact that even with the influx of people, we had effectively full employment in this country.

Now we are in recession, migrant workers are leaving and the new arrivals have fallen through the floor (numerically).

Oh, because we went out and started destroying and murdering in Iraq and Afghanistan, we were obliged to offer asylum to many of our victims. I regard that as the least we could do (and not enough).

So all told, no I don't think, in the very general terms of the original question, that "Immigration is too high".


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:31 PM

THE number of Eastern European migrants claiming benefits has almost doubled in the last year, costing the taxpayer up to £190million annually.

Around 267,000 migrants who came here to work are now receiving or claiming benefits – almost a fifth of those who have arrived since 2004.


The huge drain on public funds came as tens of thousands more Poles and their neighbours arrived in the first quarter of this year.


The latest Home Office figures are another example of the huge strain migration has placed on local authorities and the public purse.

I want to see limits placed on the number of "Free Loaders" coming into the UK for a handy fistful of notes.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:21 PM

What I'm trying to understand is do you think we have a problem with current immigration, or historic immigration. Some immigrants or all of them? Should we reverse immigration or just stop or limit future immigration?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:10 PM

Keith,

Yes. The recession has seen many return to Eastern Europe.
The majority of our immigrants, however, are from Africa and the Indian subcontinent.


But afro-carribbean and indian subcontinent immigration mostly all happened in 1947-1970. In recent years the "wave" of immigration has been from Eastern Europe with war refugees from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Are you saying you have a problem with migrants who have been settled here for several generations? Do you want *them* to go home?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Lox
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:56 PM

I am very interested to learn about this issue and would like to offer my full support to the OP for starting it.

It is perfectly possible to discuss this issue without referring to the BNP.

In fact, this issue is most usefully discussed without referring to the BNP.

I'm curious to see the "issues" defined, and to learn the facts.

Leaving the BNP out of it is not only possible but essential as they only see one issue - immigrants are bad and they should be deported.

I suppose it does no harm to look at that question, but I suspect it might take over the conversation and that any other issues might as a result get overlooked.

Good luck!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:55 PM

None whatsoever.

Most if my best friends are immigrants or from immigrant families. Like me.

People generally only come here because they expect to be able to work for a living, and that's normally the case. They only get to do those jobs if there aren't local people who want to do them, and can do them as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:54 PM

Why can't we discuss immigration without bringing them into it?

They have extreme, racist views.

We can leave race and them out of the discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:43 PM

Recent research in 5 countries showed that migrants tend to come to the United Kingdom for economic reasons, but leave for personal reasons.

Tim Finch, Head of Migration at ippr, says:

'The migration debate in the UK is fixated with the idea that immigrants come to settle and not enough attention has been paid to the fact that more and more immigrants are spending only short periods in the UK. Our research shows that many groups of migrants are now increasingly mobile. They are coming to the UK to study and work for short periods and then they are moving on'

Of course this also applies to the millions of Brits working abroad.

Shall we stay or shall we go attempts to analyse re-migration from the United Kingdom, and to understand what motivates immigrants to leave.

While I'm not arguing that net immigration is falling it does seem to have stabalized from what - yes Keith!, the ippr report refers to 'unprecedented immigration' figures 'in recent years' during an economic boom but also takes a much more objective view of immigration and labour skills.

I'm all for divorcing the issue from the other thread but, given the BNP have made it a major issue, I honestly don't see how they can be left out of any discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:40 PM

Yes. The recession has seen many return to Eastern Europe.
The majority of our immigrants, however, are from Africa and the Indian subcontinent.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:09 PM

In the US, we seem to be having some of our recent immigrants going home because their jobs have dried up. Is the UK experiencing the same thing?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:58 PM

As an American I have no trouble with UK immigration levels. However - the fellow who works at the next desk in my office - named Ian - is from Hull. Would you care to have him back??


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Subject: BS: UK immigration too high?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:55 PM

Back on the BNP thread there was talk of dicussing immigration rather than just BNP.

I think we all know what BNP stand for, so let's leave them out of it.

Let's ignore trolling guests who will try to cause friction.

I think that immigration levels in recent years give cause for legitimate concerns. Does anyone else have any concerns (excluding, please, racial ones)?


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Mudcat time: 29 November 3:15 PM EST

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