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This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh

CarolC 26 Sep 09 - 02:15 PM
gnu 26 Sep 09 - 02:10 PM
gnu 26 Sep 09 - 02:04 PM
Amos 26 Sep 09 - 02:02 PM
gnu 26 Sep 09 - 02:00 PM
robomatic 26 Sep 09 - 01:59 PM
CarolC 26 Sep 09 - 01:56 PM
gnu 26 Sep 09 - 01:54 PM
Bill D 26 Sep 09 - 01:47 PM
CarolC 26 Sep 09 - 01:31 PM
Bill D 26 Sep 09 - 01:19 PM
Azizi 26 Sep 09 - 01:07 PM
bankley 26 Sep 09 - 01:00 PM
Bill D 26 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM
catspaw49 26 Sep 09 - 12:24 PM
Bill D 26 Sep 09 - 12:00 PM
sing4peace 26 Sep 09 - 11:03 AM
bankley 26 Sep 09 - 10:24 AM
Joe Offer 26 Sep 09 - 03:25 AM
sing4peace 25 Sep 09 - 11:22 PM
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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 02:15 PM

LOL


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: gnu
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 02:10 PM

A... "... their lack of transparency and accountability."

I thought these were democracies, held accountable by their citizens?


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: gnu
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 02:04 PM

The G20 includes countries like China... kinda good idea since they hole close to 30% if the US debt?


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsbur
From: Amos
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 02:02 PM

The problem is not that these fiscal leaders meet and talk. There are always genuine requirements for genuine communication.

The problem is that they function in some ways as de facto governing bodies beyond the visibility or control of the people whose lives their decisions impact.

What should be protested is not the meetings but their lack of transparency and accountability.


A


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: gnu
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 02:00 PM

The G8 is in Huntsville, Ontario, Canada next year.


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:59 PM

I think what is drawing the lack of media attention is the lack of fear. The G20 do not inspire fear, (maybe they should but they don't) and nor the protestors. Therefor our media, not being particularly issue oriented these days, do not spend more than a minimal discursive detour on it before going on to the important subjects, like Mackenzi Phillips' family life.


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:56 PM

Well, then I'm not as encouraged as I thought I was.


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: gnu
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:54 PM

The G20 has not replaced the G8. The G20 is an adjunct, for a different purpose. The G8 still rules the world.


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:47 PM

Yes, Carol...excellent point


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:31 PM

I have to say that I am encouraged by the fact that it is now the G20 and not the G8. The more countries they include in those meetings, the more democratic they will be. Hopefully next time, they will not only include the industrialized nations and the rapidly developing nations, but also the nations that are still struggling as well, since they are also impacted by what the more developed nations do.


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:19 PM

Azizi has made my basic points about other forms of protest and the respect & attention non-violence gets.

I have BEEN in protests in Mississippi, and seen it work...and now I live near Wash DC and see both types and their coverage & results.


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: Azizi
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:07 PM

In my opinion, the civil rights movement in the United States (mid 1950s to 1968) was relatively successful in reaching its goals because it was non-violent. I believe that those courageous and principled Black people and non-Black people who risked their lives, their families' lives, and their livelihoods by participating in sit-ins, marches, and freedom rides galvanized support for their caus to a large extent because they were non-violent. I further believe that the media coverage of the violent actions that were leveled against those non-violent demonstrators shocked many people and helped sway public opinion toward the side of the protestors.

Unfortunately, the other thing that helped convince those who were open to being convinced about the need for significant changes and more equity in major American institutions were racist, horrifying acts such as the 1963 Birmingham, Alabama church bombing
that killed four young girls attending Sunday school.

And yes, I'm aware that there were also riots (rebellions) that happened in response to that tragic events (and also to Dr. Martin Luther King,Jr. being assasinated). Bowever, my point is that I believe that to a much larger degree than is the case today with the G20 protestors, more people in the general public view the Civil Rights protestors as being non-violent.

Furthermore, it seems to me that the goals of the civil rights protestors were more clear cut and easier to explain than "globilization".

While I applaud the conviction of those who are dedicated to want to make the world a more equitable place, I'm just concerned that the way some protestors go about protesting may be counter-productive to their goals (goals which I, in a broad sense, agree with).

**

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is my adopted city. I can confirm that there has been a shut down of access & services in certain areas of the city (particularly in the downtown section, and in the university area of Oakland which is an important area of the city.

Because the public transportation system was affected by the virtual closing of the downtown area, and the expected delays and disruptions in Oakland, all public school schools and most privates schools were closed since around 2 PM or so on Wednesday. Those schools will remain closed until Tuesday morning (since Monday is a Jewish holiday). Federal courts, and federal offices, and public buildings such as the post offices downtown, and the museum/art centers in Oakland were closed. (And my dentist office downtown was closed since Wednesday which is why I had a much longer than usually wait though he still took me for an emergency appointment on Tuesday.

I know that the disruption in routines was a hardship for some people, though it wasn't really a hardship for me.

I really don't know what the G20 summit accomplished in the short or long term for the world, or in the short term for the people who live in the Greater Pittsburgh area. And I don't know if the G20 protestors succeeded in reaching their goals. But if the question is "Did the G20 protestors succeed in raising awareness of their goals and reaching the hearts & minds of many Pittsburghers to their cause/s?", I'd have to answer "No".


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: bankley
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:00 PM

military sounds about right... power to the people !


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM

*brainstorming*

I wonder if these meetings could rotated among various nations which would agree to, and be able to, provide something like a Military base for security.
One of these years, they will find it difficult to find a city which wants to put up with the disruptions.


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 12:24 PM

I agree with Bill and I wonder whether that which may be accomplished in these meetings are worth the problems created in otherwise "innocent" cities. Protest is understandable and a part of any such process but the counter protests to the counter protests seem to have reached a level where their usefulness is diminished as well. If the object is anarchy then the mission is accomplished only to the point that the majority pays no attention to their views.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 12:00 PM

"How do you feel - what do you think about "globalization"?
What do you think about the anti-globalization protests?
What do you think about the response to the protests?
What do you think about the news media coverage of these forums and protests?"


Simple... I 'feel' that although many issues need to be addressed...(and in some cases, protested...) that the annual chaos and damage caused by these demonstrators goes FAR beyond the sane & reasonable.

The people in Pittsburgh are not responsible for the policies of the 'economic establishment', and they and other cities should not have to suffer.
"Globalization" is not something that can be turned on & off...it *IS*...and it needs some sort of coordination.

As to protests and the media... Riots & anarchy will get coverage by most media AS riots, and will influence very few minds as to issues. Mainstream media will almost never take time to delve into issues when there is video of broken windows & tear gas.

Those who wish to make a serious point should rent a hall and hold conferences simultaneously with the G-20 and invite serious speaker who agree with them and invite serious media coverage.

Those who attempt to disrupt proceeding with violence should then be more easily identified and contained.

(I can address other levels of this and compare it to other types of protest, but that is my basic attitude)


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: sing4peace
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 11:03 AM

Thanks for your help and input Joe.
I didn't know how to designate this as a BS thread.

Bankley -
This is a good place to PM me with your songs. Looking forward to it.

Peace 'n song,
Joyce


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...G20 in Pittsburgh
From: bankley
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 10:24 AM

next year G20 and G8 will be in Ontario.... maybe I'll write another song at them all....

sing4peace, pm me your email, and I'll send a couple of tunes you might like.... R.


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Subject: RE: This is no time to be silent...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 03:25 AM

I call myself a liberal, but I haven't been able to get too worried or excited about the WTO and all those other acronyms. I think a global economy is inevitable, and we have to have international entities like these to make it work. If managed well, a global economy can make nations interdependent, which means they might be less likely to fight with one another.

Yes, I know that globalization can have serious effects on third-world nations, but we need to do our best to ensure that doesn't happen - and not just stick our heads in the sand.


-Joe Offer-


    Yes, I know there's mention of a song in the first message, but I'm afraid that isn't enough to qualify it as a music thread - so I moved the thread to the non-music section and added to the thread title so people will know what it's about.


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Subject: The G-20 in Pittsburgh - what's going on?
From: sing4peace
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 11:22 PM

Dear Friends -

If Phil Ochs were still alive, I do believe he'd be penning a new lyric to a familiar melody. It would start off "Here's to the land of Pennsylvania..."

This week, the city of Pittsburg in Pennsylvania here in the U.S.A. is under a police lockdown as leaders from the world's largest twenty economies (the G-20) have gathered to forge a cohesive strategy for "managing" the globalized economy.

As has happened in all of the locations where these various economic forums (G-7, G-8, WTO- IMF- FTAA, etc.) have happened, they have been met with protests. These protests have been mostly peaceful although there has been a consistent presence of members of the neo-anarchist "Black Bloc" who engage in acts of property destruction and intentional police provocation. These demonstrations have been met with various levels of police response - at times resulting in mass arrests, severe injuries and even the deaths of protesters. Seattle, Quebec, Genoa, Miami are just some of the places where police tactics have included the use of tear gas, concussion grenades, rubber bullets, tasers and even surprise physical attacks on sleeping activists.

The news media rarely covers these events. Neither the official attendees nor the voices from the street are given much more than a superficial ten or fifteen seconds of coverage. Considering that these twenty national leaders are the self-proclaimed framers of the new globalized economic order - ought we not to expect at least as much air time as say, a pop star's funeral?

I am including a link to coverage of the G-20 demonstrations in Pittsburg, PA on Sept. 24th. http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2009/9/25/steve

How do you feel - what do you think about "globalization"?
What do you think about the anti-globalization protests?
What do you think about the response to the protests?
What do you think about the news media coverage of these forums and protests?

With questions abounding,
Joyce Katzberg


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Mudcat time: 26 October 3:38 AM EDT

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