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BS: Domestication of Dogs

Goose Gander 28 Jul 09 - 03:38 PM
lefthanded guitar 28 Jul 09 - 04:44 PM
Penny S. 28 Jul 09 - 04:48 PM
Peace 28 Jul 09 - 05:01 PM
Penny S. 28 Jul 09 - 05:24 PM
Peace 28 Jul 09 - 05:27 PM
GUEST,JTT 28 Jul 09 - 05:50 PM
Janie 28 Jul 09 - 07:01 PM
Dorothy Parshall 28 Jul 09 - 09:07 PM
Stilly River Sage 20 Aug 21 - 10:19 PM
Donuel 20 Aug 21 - 11:34 PM
Senoufou 21 Aug 21 - 04:00 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 21 Aug 21 - 04:13 AM
Bonzo3legs 21 Aug 21 - 06:10 AM
robomatic 21 Aug 21 - 11:48 AM
Senoufou 21 Aug 21 - 12:13 PM
Donuel 21 Aug 21 - 03:57 PM
Jeri 21 Aug 21 - 03:59 PM
Backwoodsman 21 Aug 21 - 05:13 PM
Donuel 22 Aug 21 - 07:44 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Aug 21 - 10:49 AM
Backwoodsman 22 Aug 21 - 01:48 PM
keberoxu 22 Aug 21 - 02:03 PM
Backwoodsman 22 Aug 21 - 02:47 PM
Stilly River Sage 22 Aug 21 - 03:58 PM
Backwoodsman 22 Aug 21 - 04:16 PM
Donuel 23 Aug 21 - 11:22 AM
Stilly River Sage 25 Aug 21 - 11:38 AM
Backwoodsman 26 Aug 21 - 07:15 AM
Senoufou 26 Aug 21 - 07:40 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Aug 21 - 02:21 AM
Senoufou 27 Aug 21 - 03:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Aug 21 - 04:12 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Aug 21 - 05:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Aug 21 - 07:56 AM
Senoufou 27 Aug 21 - 08:11 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Aug 21 - 08:36 AM
Stilly River Sage 27 Aug 21 - 10:55 AM
Donuel 27 Aug 21 - 11:06 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Aug 21 - 12:42 PM
Dave the Gnome 27 Aug 21 - 04:27 PM
Backwoodsman 27 Aug 21 - 05:41 PM
keberoxu 27 Aug 21 - 08:12 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 Aug 21 - 03:31 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Aug 21 - 04:27 AM
Bonzo3legs 28 Aug 21 - 05:41 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Aug 21 - 06:49 AM
Donuel 28 Aug 21 - 09:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 Aug 21 - 09:46 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Aug 21 - 02:25 PM
Backwoodsman 28 Aug 21 - 02:28 PM
Donuel 30 Aug 21 - 09:24 AM
The Sandman 30 Aug 21 - 10:05 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Aug 21 - 10:12 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Aug 21 - 10:16 AM
Donuel 30 Aug 21 - 10:22 AM
The Sandman 30 Aug 21 - 10:56 AM
Jeri 30 Aug 21 - 11:20 AM
Donuel 30 Aug 21 - 11:41 AM
Dave the Gnome 30 Aug 21 - 11:56 AM
Donuel 30 Aug 21 - 12:44 PM
Backwoodsman 30 Aug 21 - 12:44 PM
Backwoodsman 30 Aug 21 - 12:46 PM
punkfolkrocker 30 Aug 21 - 02:57 PM
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Bonzo3legs 30 Aug 21 - 04:39 PM
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Subject: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Goose Gander
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 03:38 PM

Woof at the Door . . . article in American Scientist about domestication of dogs.

In 2021, the archive link to this article is here: Marginalia: The Woof At The Door

---mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:44 PM

Very interesting. I think they had an entire show on this on PBS.

My question however, as a feline fan, is when and how did the first cat decide to domesticate a human?


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Penny S.
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:48 PM

I'm trying to download a Scientific American articleon just that subject.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-taming-of-the-cat

It's suggesting about 10000 years ago, but I can't read it yet.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:01 PM

I lived with a mountain lion for three years. She never did get used to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Penny S.
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:24 PM

I've read it now    - but beware, it keeps banging some instrument at you.

Mountain lion? That's some choice of housemate.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:27 PM

It was a marriage of convenience. She had a cave and I had a gun.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:50 PM

Dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years, for goodness sake.

Men soon, we hope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Janie
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 07:01 PM

Fascinating, Michael. Thanks for the link!

Then I had to read up on the Central Asian Shepherd, a breed I had not heard of.

Back in the late '80's and very early '90's I worked as a CSR for the American Kennel Club, and so had some awareness of most breeds registered with the AKC, the UKC and the American Coonhound Association. Even without following these things at all, it has been an eye-opener over the past 20 years to hear of or see the many dogbreeds of eastern Europe and central Asia that most of us who are part of John Q. Public in the USA had never heard of until the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

Ain't nuttin' like a good dawg. One of these days I will again have the time to give one the attention it deserves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 09:07 PM

Peace' choice of home mates beats a lot of human partners one might have. So, how bout something on the domestication of humans. Like, when might that start to occur??


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 10:19 PM

A story came up today that needs to go on one of the dog threads. There are numerous threads to discuss particular losses (a couple of my own dogs have been memorialized at Mudcat) but this is a good general look at how they become a real part of our families, and why we mourn their loss. Here is an excerpt:

Why Losing A Dog Can Be Harder Than Losing A Relative Or Friend
An interspecies bond like no other

What is it about dogs, exactly, that make humans bond so closely with them?

For starters, dogs have had to adapt to living with humans over the past 10,000 years. And theyíve done it very well: Theyíre the only animal to have evolved specifically to be our companions and friends. Anthropologist Brian Hare has developed the ďDomestication HypothesisĒ to explain how dogs morphed from their grey wolf ancestors into the socially skilled animals that we now interact with in very much the same way as we interact with other people.

Perhaps one reason our relationships with dogs can be even more satisfying than our human relationships is that dogs provide us with such unconditional, uncritical positive feedback. (As the old saying goes, ďMay I become the kind of person that my dog thinks I already am.Ē)

This is no accident. They have been selectively bred through generations to pay attention to people, and MRI scans show that dog brains respond to praise from their owners just as strongly as they do to food (and for some dogs, praise is an even more effective incentive than food). Dogs recognize people and can learn to interpret human emotional states from facial expression alone. Scientific studies also indicate that dogs can understand human intentions, try to help their owners and even avoid people who donít cooperate with their owners or treat them well.

Not surprisingly, humans respond positively to such unrequited affection, assistance and loyalty. Just looking at dogs can make people smile. Dog owners score higher on measures of well-being and they are happier, on average, than people who own cats or no pets at all.

The rest of it is at the link, and if you don't have an adblocker I suspect you're going to see a lot of crap pop up. It's via the IFL - I Fucking Love Science - page.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 11:34 PM

I was doing a radio show in Buffalo one night when the subject turned to loss and the overwhelming number of calls was from people who lost dogs or still actively grieved after a year. It was surprisingly not about losing people that night. I've seen an older man have a breakdown that lasted for weeks. I think of Mr. Bo jangles, "after 20 years he still grieves"


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 04:00 AM

Grief! Oh my Lord, I still sometimes shed a few tears about our last cat Smokey, who was put to sleep two whole years ago. I think it's natural for sentient beings (humans, dogs, cats etc) to grieve after a loss.
Don't elephants show signs of grief after a death?
My funny neighbour-across-the-road was going to summon the men in white coats when I confessed I'd had a 'pet bluebottle fly'. I fed him tiny pieces of ham in our kitchen, and when he died I was rather sad. (She swats hers with enormous pleasure)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 04:13 AM

"Domestication of dogs".
My views are similar to Ghandi's views on "Western Civilisation".

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 06:10 AM

Our greyhound is 100% domesticated, she sleeps on the sofa and often when I am in our music room she sleeps on the bed!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 11:48 AM

I am daily involved with domestication of the dog and I have a gut level understanding and acceptance of this bond that I have come to well along in my life due to the influence of some good friends of both the human and canine variety. It is a source of great wonder and pleasure. I have liked and respected animals but I have not often had the responsibility of them liking me.

I have been thinking of the Simpsons episode now a generation in the past where their dog had to be trained or given up. At the time there was a famous English dog trainer who they immortalized for the show:

Woman: "Now let me introduce you to the two most important words in dog obediance: CHOKE CHAIN!"

[choke chain pulled around the neck of Santa's Little Helper, who drops]

Bart: "Is my dog dead, ma'am?"

Woman: (laughs) "You've no idea how often I hear that!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 12:13 PM

Haha robomatic, was that Barbara Woodhouse? ("Walkies!")
I confess I can't listen to that song Bright Eyes sung by Art Garfunkel for the film Watership Down without bawling my eyes out.
Our Headmaster at the school in Norwich where I taught for many years hired the blooming film for the whole school to watch one afternoon near Christmas. I foolishly told my class that the song upset me. When Garfunkel began to sing, the entire school turned to watch me hastily get out my hanky and sob into it.
Having had to get the vet to put to sleep many many cats over the years (mostly old age) and watched their 'bright eyes' go pale, my heart breaks over and over about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 03:57 PM

Ham? Don't you know blue bottle flies are jewish? You may have killed the poor dear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 03:59 PM

I've been watching Cesar Millan's "Better Dog, Better Human" (I THINK that's right.) And "Pit Bulls & Parolees." We got a little bit of info during training to be a vet tech. Some dogs respond to food as a reward, some to toys, and sometimes, all they want is praise.

And "Bright Eyes" gets me too, but because of the movie and the rabbits, and I'd hear it was about myxomatosis, which it really wasn't. I just felt bad for Hazel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 05:13 PM

Iím not a fan of Cesar Milanís methods - I donít like the physicality, the poking, prodding, tapping, even pinning a dog down. Itís based on domination - Ďbeing the bossí - whereas the methods trainers like Victoria Stilwell and Graham Hall are grounded in winning the dogís trust and affection, and making him want to do as heís asked.

Our dog, a Border Terrier, was trained using the Ďreward and praiseí methods, weíve never had to get physical with him, or even raise our voices above normal conversation-volume - and this is a breed renowned for being single-minded, stubborn, and given to Ďselective deafnessí.

Milanís methods might suit some people, but Iím not one of them.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 07:44 AM

There are neurological and psychological connections between humans and dogs of which some are yet to be discovered. The dog is evolved to be highly drawn to humans for food and survival. In humans the brain is connected to dogs even if they suffer from FTD dementia and can not remember their wife or children - they know their dog very well.
What this means is debatable but it shows the bond is deeper than we even suspected. At least thats my snap theory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 10:49 AM

I found Cesar Millan to be the key to teaching dogs what the rules of the house are. And there are just a few big ones: I'm the pack leader, so when we walk they are beside me, they're not out front pulling (and trying to assert their leadership). And I'm in charge of the food. So at meal time I put their bowls of food on the floor and they wait till I tell them to "eat!" before diving it. They do the related parlor trick when I show them a treat, they sit or get down on the floor (I say "down" and hold the hand held flat flush with my ear, a hand sign they recognize) and I put the treat on the floor - and tell them when they can have it. These two food things are win/win - they love to do the trick because they get food and when they do it right they get the food.

My first dog since childhood was my pitbull Cinnamon who arrived as an injured big pup. We didn't find the owners so I kept her because she was so sweet and smart, but not accustomed to a leash or walking. I wondered about keeping an American Staffordshire Terrier (one of the several "bully" breeds) but once I saw Cesar work with them that convinced me I could do it. Any new dog that comes to the house (I'm on my fifth now, having lost the first two elderly ones in the last five years) they learn "the walk," and then we reinforce my pack leader status with food.

I'm having a struggle with the youngest one now, she has decided she doesn't like the head collar, but I think it is a combination of as she grew and it became too tight, then I didn't adjust it out correctly. I think we've got the right combination now (because she forgets to protest about it and just walks.)

It was very hard to lose that first one, she had to be euthanized as cancer progressed to the point where there was no joy for her, and it isn't something you get used to with new dogs and as time passes. The one I lost most recently managed to go on her own terms; she was failing only in the last week or so and one night overnight she lay down in her favorite place and died in her sleep.

There are lots of things they know about me that they respond to. One of those things I noticed recently is that when I'm in the kitchen and drop something I tend to say "oops!" and they dash in to see what's on the floor for the first comer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 01:48 PM

We did all of that, but without Milanís pushing, prodding, poking, and generally unpleasant physicality. Our dog is gentle, polite, affectionate and obedient.

My parents had three Staffies, two dogs and a bitch - I was brought up with them - none was ever struck, pushed around, prodded, or poked, or otherwise roughly handled, and all were gentle, polite, affectionate, obedient animals who knew the rules and obeyed them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 02:03 PM

Glad you're back, Backwoodsman. Missed you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 02:47 PM

Thanks, Keb. Time will tell whether I stay, if the dog-haters kick off again Iíll be outta here permanently.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 03:58 PM

I never saw Cesar doing any of the violence you're suggesting, BWM. We must have been watching different programs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 04:16 PM

Well I did see Milan pushing, poking and prodding, and Iíve seen him pin a dog down - unfortunately I have no idea which programmes he did those things in - it was a number of years ago. As I said, I accept that some people are happy with his methods, but Iím not one of those.

So I guess weíll have to agree to differ. Thatís OK - different people, different opinionsÖ


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Aug 21 - 11:22 AM

My childhood dog was a Russian Wolfhound.
They are like a 'Persian' greyhound.
Her name was Semantic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Aug 21 - 11:38 AM

I posted this photo on Instagram this morning - they are glad to get back into the house after our morning walk. They fully acknowledge that while they like to sniff around and adore the tall grass for playing Wild Dog On The Hunt, they are extremely happy to be back home where breakfast awaits.

Cookie is doing better with her head collar after a few walks on her own leash; I think she was getting too much back-and-forth pulling when the lab's collar and hers were linked to a single leash.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 21 - 07:15 AM

Today is International Dog Day. For those, like me, whose valued companion is his/her dog(s), every day is Dog Day. Dog Bless them all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Aug 21 - 07:40 AM

There's a very funny series of short little films on Youtube about Charlie the Golden. It's about a golden retriever and his housemates and their antics, with hilarious subtitles putting words in their mouths.
Charlie often 'says' "I swear to Dog!" and "What the fluff?"
It came up on my Facebook doodah and I quickly got hooked.
I love 'coaching' (Norfolk word for stroking) all the dogs that are led past our house on their walks round the lakes and river.
So many are called 'Molly'. Then there's Buddy, Logie, Leyla, and lots more, mostly in twos or threes.
What's even funnier and makes me smile are the numerous angry posts with large photos of piles of dog poo left on the pavements, and displayed on our Village Facebook. Most people pick up their dogs' 'deposits' but some don't. I laugh when I imagine someone standing there taking a close-up of a lump of poo and their extremely cross comments.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 02:21 AM

Our remaining cat is called Molly, Sen. The one that passed away last year was Lily. On mentioning that a Stargazer lily had just flowered in our front garden last week we found Molly, later, curled up in a raised bed at the back. She must have heard about the lily flower and decided we needed a Molly flower too :-)

We have the grumbles and photos of dog poo on our village Facebook group too. What I find more annoying though is those owners who clean up and then leave the bag hanging on a low tree branch or bush. What's that about!?!?


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 03:29 AM

Haha Dave! A 'Molly flower'! That's so sweet.
I've always thought one should name a pet with something you can call easily. If it ends in 'y' this is ideal. We had cats called Smokey, Minty, Murphy and so on. I read on Mumsnet (I think it was) that some lady wanted to call her cat 'Jesus'! Everyone said that standing at her back door calling "Jesus! Jesus!" would have given her neighbours food for thought!
We once took in a poor little cocker spaniel called Pela just for the weekend. Her South African owners (we cleaned their house for them weekly) intended to go away and just leave her trapped in their concrete backyard. They were hard-hearted (and rather racist towards my black husband, which enraged me) so we took her home with us.
It was the first time we'd ever 'owned' a dog, and my husband was horrified that one was expected to lift the hot poo from the pavement in a thin plastic bag. But he manfully stepped up, and we walked Pela all over our lovely village. That dog was so delighted to live with us, and for the two days she spent the whole time in my arms on my lap or snuggled up to us in bed!
I'm afraid I cried when we took her back to those nasty people. But fortunately, they went back to SA and gave Pela to a nice lady they knew. Thank God!


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 04:12 AM

The book "A story like the wind" by the wonderful author Laurens van der Post tells a tale centred around a boy and his Rhodesian Ridgeback, Hintza. One section explains that the Bushman for "forward" is "tza" and this nearly ends in disaster when Hintza only hears the last bit and nearly jumps off a cliff!

He was OK BTW :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 05:11 AM

ĒWe have the grumbles and photos of dog poo on our village Facebook group too. What I find more annoying though is those owners who clean up and then leave the bag hanging on a low tree branch or bush. What's that about!?!?Ē

Oh, it annoys the hell out of us responsible dog owners too, Dave, who pick up after their dogs without fail, and put the bag in a bin or take it home (we have a separate bin for Baxterís poo bags at the bottom of the garden. We donít understand it either and, of course, those dirty, lazy, anti-social A-holes get decent, socially-responsible owners a bad name.

Mind you, itís no worse than doing a bit of work on your borders and finding your hands covered in the cat-shit that someone elseís cat buried there! And Iíve never, ever seen or heard of a cat owner following their cat around and picking up after it! (And, BTW, Iím not a cat hater, Iím a fan of cats and was owned by a number during my first marriage!). ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 07:56 AM

Our cat poops on the stones in our back garden and we clean it up. I also clean the poop of a cat who visits next door's side lawn. We have previously had indoor cats which only ever used a litter tray. Just because you have not heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, John.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 08:11 AM

When we had five cats at one time (!) we lived deep in the countryside with a half-acre garden. But they always preferred to use their big litter tray in the house. I didn't mind at all.
Now we live in a street of bungalows, and the little rescued kitten next door, 'Archie', has now grown up and is starting to explore the neighbourhood. He likes to come to me for a little chat when I'm sitting on The Bench. Every time, after our little 'conversation' he squats on the lawn right in front of me, does a huge poo, then smiles in a friendly way. I reckon he's saying, "Here's a nice present for you!"
I honestly don't mind this. I put it on a small shovel and chuck it under our hedge.
Husband says he wonders what Archie's owners would say if he squatted on their lawn and did a huge poo, then smiled benignly. hee hee


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 08:36 AM

ĒOur cat poops on the stones in our back garden and we clean it up. I also clean the poop of a cat who visits next door's side lawn. We have previously had indoor cats which only ever used a litter tray. Just because you have not heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, John.Ē

Well thatís true Dave but picking it up in your own back garden is one thing, picking it up elsewhere is something else. Someoneís cat has recently taken to hiding its shit in the gravel surrounding my gas-meter box by my front door - as I discovered when I stood in it while reading my meter! Nobody followed that one to clear up after it! Fortunately, having a cat-hating dog, we donít tend to get feline Ďvisitorsí in our back garden nowadays. ;-)

But, as I know you know, my point was that, for every perfectly valid complaint about un-cleaned-up dog-shit, thereís at least another equally-valid complaint about un-cleaned-up cat-shit, and cat-owners arenít really in any position to try to occupy the high moral ground on the topic of their petsí waste products - thereís fault on both sides.

I do have to say though, that there can be no excuse for poo-bags hung in trees and bushes, or strewn around and left lying on the ground. I completely fail to comprehend the mindset of those who go to the trouble of picking their dogís shit up, but then leave the bag lying around like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 10:55 AM

It is considered the polite thing to do, at the very least, to pick up dog droppings when you're in a public place or if out walking your and dog stops and leaves it in the street or a yard. I always have a couple of grocery (carrier) bags with me to pick it up and tie off the bag. If you think about it, it's a great weapon if you ever feel threatened when you're out walking (and having dogs with you isn't enough protection!) - swing or wave or throw the bag of dog waste. (It's easiest when our walks are on trash day to drop the bag in one of the bins as we walk past. Otherwise it goes in the trash at home. Everything out in the yard is picked up periodically and dropped into the compost.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 11:06 AM

Sounds like a book, The High moral ground of cat poop. :

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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 12:42 PM

SRS, itís also the polite thing to do here in the UK and, in cities, towns and villages at least, bins are strategically placed by local authorities for dog-walkers to deposit their tied-up poo-bags. If there are no convenient poo-bins, itís perfectly acceptable to drop your poo-bags in a standard litter-bin but, t.b.h., itís really not a huge imposition to carry a bag or two home and put it/them in oneís own bin.

Unfortunately, there is a minority of dog-owners who ignore the Golden Rule of Poop-Scooping, and whose indolence/lack of social conscience gives those of us who are fastidious about picking-up an undeserved bad reputation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 04:27 PM

ęiĽWell thatís true Dave but picking it up in your own back garden is one thing, picking it up elsewhere is something else.ę/iĽ

Well, as I just said, I do pick up from my neighbour's garden but that is beside the point. I do pick up our cat's poop. Why should I pick up anyone else's? You pick up your own dog's mess. Do you pick up others? I'm not following your reasoning here...


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 05:41 PM

I think youíve missed the point, Dave.

Yes, I pick up after my dog anywhere and everywhere he takes a dump, and I do pick up other dogsí shit if thereís a pile close by when Iím doing so. Iím not suggesting you, or any cat-owner, should pick up other peopleís catsí shit, but it would be nice if cat owners did what they expect dog-owners to do and pick up their catsí shit anywhere and everywhere they take a dump. My dog never steps outside the confines of our garden without my wife or me being with him. How many cat-owners even know where their cats are all of the time, let alone where they take a dump when theyíre roaming?

As Iíve said a number of times on Ďdogí threads, Iím not anti-cat, Iíve owned cats, held them in high affection, and still do feel an strong affinity with them. But I do find it galling that cat-owners use un-picked-up dog shit as a weapon to beat responsible dog-owners like me with, when thereís plenty of un-picked-up cat shit lying around, including on my property, that no-one makes any effort to pick up.

And cat shit stinks just as bad as dog-shit, if not worse, when itís on the sole of your shoe and you trample it on your hall carpet, as I did a few weeks ago after unknowingly treading in it while reading the gas-meter! ;-)

But we could go over and over this ground, which is pointless. So Iím leaving it here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 08:12 PM

To circle back to Stilly's link to the article
about humans grieving the loss of canine companionship:

a human with a dog-shaped hole in his or her heart
remembers other things altogether:
that wagging tail,
the expression in the eyes,
the warm snuggle,
or what Donuel rightly calls
the "horizontal grass dance."


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 03:31 AM

OK,John. You are obviously very defensive about something so I shall leave it too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 04:27 AM

Not Ďdefensiveí at all, Dave - my conscience is absolutely clear where taking responsibility for my dogís shit is concerned. Just putting undeniable facts on the table that many cat-owners seem to be unwilling to recognise. Pax.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 05:41 AM

I always use babies' nappy bags for picking up our grey's droppings, which are either deposited in a council litter bin marked for dog waste or taken home for flushing down the lavatory. If I see a dog owner not picking up dog's poo I offer a nappy bag!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 06:49 AM

We buy the proper compostable poo-bags which are made from potato-starch, so they completely degrade within six months and leave no nasty-plastic particles to get into wild-lifeís innards and the water system.

I do the same if I see someone not cleaning up.

Weíre not such a bad lot, are we? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 09:46 AM

Stop creepin round my back door


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 09:46 AM

I'm the same, John. Nothing whatsoever against dogs. Just putting undeniable facts on the table that many dog-owners seem to be unwilling to recognise. I think we are in complete agreement on the undeniable facts about many cat and dog owners. Also in agreement about PMs from Dick as I got one too. I suspect yours was the reverse of mine but they both ended up in the same bin :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 02:25 PM

Cheers Dave, like you, I think we are in agreement on most things, and Iím happy that our different views on other areas can be put away without damage to our relationship here - much appreciated.

I donít allow myself to be provoked by PM, and I donít get involved in PM discussions. If I have something to say on a thread-topic, If only others would do the same. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 02:28 PM

Bugger, got distracted by the door-bell! Should have saidÖ

If I have something to say on a thread-topic, I say it on-thread - if itís something Iím not prepared to say on-thread, I donít say it at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 09:24 AM

I noticed old pm's were either advice or support.
The antagonizing PM is a modern development
perhaps as an outgrowth of cruelty politics as seen on Facebook.
Dogs would never send a mean PM and thats a fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 10:05 AM

Cats generally cover their faeces
Cats generally cover or bury their faeces, not always, but very often.
Then there are Foxes, I often see their faeces when they have been eating blackberries.
Dog owners often take their pets for a walk and can see the animal shitting in public and should always clear up afterwards most of them do.
thse are the two PMS Isent to backwoodsman
they are perfectly polite and factual.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 10:12 AM

I donít want PMs from you, Iíve told you before not to PM me. Stop PM-ing me. Do you understand?


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 10:16 AM

And itís considered very bad form to disclose the contents of PMs on-thread. Do you understand?


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 10:22 AM

Everyone has pet peeves, mine are in laws with good reason.
I noticed my dog give a heavy sigh. I doubled her activity and she stopped sighing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 10:56 AM

I disclosed them so that it was clear they were polite and factual and not mean. There was an insinuation that they might be mean[ not by you]
If you dont wish to receive pms leave the forum and be a guest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 11:20 AM

Just delete them without reading.
He doesn't understand that "unwanted", when the sender knows a person doesn't want them, is the same thing as "mean". It's stalker behavior.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 11:41 AM

If you dont wish to receive BM's leave the forum and be our guest
be our guest be our guest
Come on we'll kick your ass
You've won your own free pass
To be our guest
If you're stressed
It's fine posting we suggest
Be our guest
Be our guest
Be our guest
Need some practice to be an asshole?
Mostly we just lay around the castle
Flabby, fat and lazy
You walked in and oops-a-daisy
It's a guest
It's a guest
Sakes alive, well, I'll be blessed
Wine's been poured the flood has crest
I've had the napkins freshly pressed
With dessert
She'll want tea
And my dear, that's fine with me
While the cups do their soft shoeing
I'll be bubbling, I'll be brewing
I'll get warm
Piping hot
Heaven's sakes! Is that a spot?
Clean it up! We want the company impressed
We've got a lot to do
Is it one lump or two
For you, our guest?
Be our guest
Be our guest
Our command is your request
It's been years since we had smart folks here
And we're obsessed
To appease
With our ease
Yes, indeed, we aim to please
While the candlelight's still glowing
Let us help you
We'll keep going
Course by course
One by one
'Til you shout, "Enough! I'm done!"
Then we'll sing you off to sleep since you got pissed
Tonight you'll prop your feet up
But for now, let's eat up
Be our guest
Be our guest
Be our guest


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 11:56 AM

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want me to disclose your PMs to me, Dick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 12:44 PM

Dogs on fire songhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O5cGUs2OM4


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 12:44 PM

Donít bother with him, Dave. As I always say, ĎDonít Feed The Trollí.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 12:46 PM

ĒJust delete them without reading.Ē

Exactly what I did, Jeri. I always do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 02:57 PM

As a dog lover I must insist it's about time
mudcat changed it's name to muddog..

If admin do not comply immediately you may regret not showing support
for our canine friends.

Stop being dogist by continuing to condone the evil of cats,


People and organizations have been cancelled for far less..

You have been warned..


woof....!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 03:46 PM

No! I won't have it! It's Mudhamster or nothing!


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 04:39 PM

Perhaps Mudbiden as they seem to hero worship him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 04:41 PM

In the South, people who catch big catfish with their bare hands are called mudcatters. They stick their hand in a hidy spot under water and jam their hand in the fish's mouth and make a fist. Then pull.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 04:55 PM

Stop being dogist by continuing to condone the evil of cats,

It's not being 'dogist'. It's just a form of dogged determination.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 05:13 PM

There's plenty of dogging determination round here. I hear that Kit Hill is the place to be...


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 08:59 PM

song of hope

for bonzo


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 09:49 PM

Could we come up with an excuse to use the word

Mudcatawampus? No?   Shoot. I like that word.

Maybe we could refer to our pet Trolls, when they raise their ugly heads,
by saying
Mudcatawampus Alert!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 09:52 PM

oooooooooh.. catfight...


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Aug 21 - 04:12 AM

. . . cheaper than a dogfight, you don't need aeroplanes ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Aug 21 - 05:36 AM

I think we need a subordinate claws. Or perhaps a paws for thought?
Some posters on here are wags. And create bones of contention.
Fleas try to be kind. And don't bite.
Purrhaps things will improve. Or will become just pants?


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 21 - 05:42 AM

LOL Sen! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Aug 21 - 09:50 AM

My three are all flopped down on the cold tile floor, cooling off after our morning walk. 77o and 80% humidity - better than the last few days when it was 90%. Once they've stopped panting so hard I feed them. There is a problem called "bloat" that can happen if they eat a big meal then get a lot of exercise; I don't want to create some similar but reverse situation by giving them exercise then feeding right away (though they get half in the morning and half in the evening—also to avoid bloat).

I tell them we'll all wait - I don't get my first cuppa tea until they get fed. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Sep 21 - 04:50 PM

Our greyhound is 7 years old today, so happy birthday to her!! We take her to a secure field called oddly "Strawberry Field" tomorrow, where she can lurch about off lead for up to an hour. However the longest she's lasted so far is 40 minutes, when she just stands by our car!


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Sep 21 - 03:49 AM

Belated Happy Birthday to your darling greyhound Bonzo! (Is she called Dreamy? My memory is getting terrible!) Hope the run in Strawberry Fields was enjoyable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Domestication of Dogs
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Sep 21 - 04:45 AM

Yes that's right.


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