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BS: The real first words on the the moon???

Mr Red 08 Jul 09 - 07:20 AM
Jack Blandiver 08 Jul 09 - 07:28 AM
Willie-O 08 Jul 09 - 07:42 AM
Mr Red 08 Jul 09 - 08:04 AM
Rapparee 08 Jul 09 - 09:09 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 08 Jul 09 - 11:18 AM
Amos 08 Jul 09 - 11:23 AM
MMario 08 Jul 09 - 11:28 AM
Stu 08 Jul 09 - 11:32 AM
Amos 08 Jul 09 - 11:53 AM
Little Hawk 08 Jul 09 - 12:12 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 08 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM
Amos 08 Jul 09 - 12:41 PM
frogprince 08 Jul 09 - 12:45 PM
heric 08 Jul 09 - 12:58 PM
olddude 08 Jul 09 - 01:03 PM
Little Hawk 08 Jul 09 - 01:19 PM
Mrrzy 08 Jul 09 - 05:57 PM
Peace 08 Jul 09 - 06:02 PM
GUEST,robomatic 08 Jul 09 - 06:06 PM
frogprince 08 Jul 09 - 06:17 PM
Little Hawk 08 Jul 09 - 06:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Jul 09 - 06:59 PM
TheSnail 08 Jul 09 - 07:43 PM
GUEST,robomatic 08 Jul 09 - 08:10 PM
catspaw49 08 Jul 09 - 08:31 PM
Peace 08 Jul 09 - 08:34 PM
frogprince 08 Jul 09 - 08:44 PM
catspaw49 08 Jul 09 - 08:45 PM
Phot 08 Jul 09 - 09:28 PM
Mr Red 09 Jul 09 - 09:16 AM
Rapparee 09 Jul 09 - 09:29 AM
olddude 09 Jul 09 - 09:34 AM
Rapparee 09 Jul 09 - 09:41 AM
goatfell 09 Jul 09 - 10:27 AM
beardedbruce 09 Jul 09 - 10:50 AM
goatfell 09 Jul 09 - 11:01 AM
Amos 09 Jul 09 - 11:19 AM
Jack Blandiver 09 Jul 09 - 11:20 AM
Tug the Cox 09 Jul 09 - 11:34 AM
meself 09 Jul 09 - 12:03 PM
heric 09 Jul 09 - 12:21 PM
heric 09 Jul 09 - 12:28 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 09 Jul 09 - 01:28 PM
3refs 09 Jul 09 - 05:06 PM
Mrrzy 09 Jul 09 - 06:06 PM
Rapparee 09 Jul 09 - 06:18 PM
Skivee 09 Jul 09 - 07:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Jul 09 - 07:52 PM
Skivee 09 Jul 09 - 09:54 PM
Alice 09 Jul 09 - 11:28 PM
Mr Red 16 Jul 09 - 04:59 AM
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Subject: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:20 AM

<PEDANT ="ON">
Now was it?

1) "OK, engine stopped. Houston, Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has Landed"

2) "It's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind"

3) "It's some kind of dust, I can move it around with my foot"

According to Harlan Ellison (SciFi write and pedant) 2) was said on the bottom rung of the ladder before "setting foot" , and the word "it's" does hint at that.

If feet on the moon are not the arbiter - then 1) qualifies equally, though we could say it was the first human words "from" the moon.

the accuracy of 3) is uncertain though the general tennet is correct.
and the contentious "a" as in 2) "a man" has been ignored (so far).
</PEDANT>

Discuss.........


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:28 AM

"It's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind"

Call yourself a pedant? Sheesh! Everyone knows the line is one small step for a man...


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Willie-O
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:42 AM

I remember thinking "The Eagle has landed" made a lot more sense although I didn't care for the patriotic/imperialist sound of it.

As I understand what you're alluding to, the "one small step" comment was scripted in advance as"one small step for a man", but Armstrong was nervous and just said "one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind", which made no sense. It was an impressive technological achievement but they shoulda hired a better speechwriter. He kept it short, I'll give him that.

So #3 was the next sentence heard, when he was definitely standing on the moon's surface? I've never heard it before but I kind like it.   

Can't see as it makes much difference. Once they were sitting on the moon's surface, in physical contact with it, they were there. Stepped out of the lander onto the surface, there was still footgear between him and the moon.   If he took off his boots to run barefoot in the dust, well, that just wouldn't work.

W-O


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:04 AM

the words - and the contentious "a" as in 2) "a man" has been ignored (so far).
were to pre-empt the arguement about the "a man" which is not there on the audio and Armstrong has said he doesn't remember that accurately. And the recent documenary with astronauts that knew and worked with him put the script-writer as: one N Armstrong, and the sign on the hatch at the time of coinage was "Apollo 11". Mr Armstrong did not (and does not) say a great deal and then only by e-mail. Available to those with iPlayer loaded "Being Neil Armstrong" (BBC - 4 I think) - you have 5 days left.

The video processing took place in Hollywood with a group delay of about 1 minute. The audio was added during public transmission with somewhat of a guess as to the correct synchronisation.

I did watch it live (?) and all those explanatory programmes at the time.

The New Scientist hinted that they knew the score because their take on it was "as he stepped off the ladder".


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 09:09 AM

The first words broadcast from moon were "SHEEEEEEEEE-IT! Waddaya know, we made it."


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:18 AM

Depends on what's meant by "on". Do you mean when the vehicle landed, or when a person put his foot on the surface? That's sort of like asking whether a commuter is "home" from work when he pulls his car into his garage or when he walks through the door into his house.

Then, supposing we agree that "home" means when he walks through the door, imagine he's saying "Honey, I'm home!" as he opens and walks through that door. Did he say it before or after he arrived home? Or maybe he said part of it before and part after? Did he say "Honey" while he was still in the garage and "I'm home!" while he was in the house?

Who cares? Human activity is a continuum and, while it can be broken down into discrete segments, doing so often serves no meaningful purpose. Whether Armstrong spoke his "one small step" soliloquy while he was on the ladder, after he stepped from the ladder, or part of it while on and part while off makes no difference. All that matters is he didn't say, "Holy shit! What in the hell's that big green thing? Aaarrrggghhh!"


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:23 AM

"Oh!...Hello...greetings. Um....We are from Earth, out that way....ummmm...you guys have names? Hi, I'm Neil...Dejah? No!! Deja THORIS? I've heard of you!!!..."


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: MMario
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:28 AM

Ridiculous Amos! DEjah lived on MARS!


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Stu
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:32 AM

"That's one small step for a man . . . OK - who's moondog left that there?"


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:53 AM

Well, come on, MM--if you were she, and given a chance to meet a real, live astronaut landing on the Moon for the first time ever, surely you would take some personal time off to make the trip??? Where's your sense of adventure???



A


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:12 PM

The first real words on the moon following the Appollo landing were uttered by a picnicing group of Selenite Moon Chimps who had watched, transfixed, as the Eagle landed. They stared silently as the hatch opened. Then, as Neil Armstrong stepped out, one of them was clearly heard to say...

"Damn. There goes the neighborhood. Hide the friggin' bananas and head for the craters!"


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM

http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.html


Landing:

04 06 45 40 LMP (EAGLE)
CONTACT LIGHT.

04 06 45 43 LMP (EAGLE)
Okay. ENGINE STOP.

04 06 45 45 LMP (EAGLE)
ACA - out of DETENT.

04 06 45 46 CDR (EAGLE)
Out of DETENT.

04 06 45 47 LMP (EAGLE)
MODE CONTROL - both AUTO. DESCENT ENGINE COMMAND OVERRIDE - OFF. ENGINE ARM - OFF.



(GOSS NET 1) Tape 66/12 Page 317

04 06 45 52 LMP (EAGLE)
413 is in.

04 06 45 57 CC
We copy you down, Eagle.

04 06 45 59 CDR (TRANQ)
Houston, Tranquility Base here.

04 06 46 04 CDR (TRANQ)
THE EAGLE HAS LANDED.

04 06 46 06 CC
Roger, Tranquility. We copy you on the ground. You got a bunch of guys about to turn blue. We're breathing again. Thanks a lot.

04 06 46 16 CDR (TRANQ)
Thank you.

04 06 46 18 CC
You're looking good here.

04 06 46 23 CDR (TRANQ)
Okay. We're going to be busy for a minute.

04 06 46 25 LMP (TRANQ)
MASTER ARM, ON. Take care of the ... I'll get this ...

04 06 46 38 LMP (TRANQ)
Very smooth touchdown.

04 06 46 52 LMP (TRANQ)
...

04 06 47 03 LMP (TRANQ)
Okay. It looks like we're venting the oxidizer now.

04 06 47 06 CC
Roger, Eagle. And you are STAY for - -

04 06 47 08 LMP (TRANQ)
...

04 06 47 09 CC
- - T1. Over. Eagle, you are STAY for T1.

04 06 47 12 CDR (TRANQ)
Roger. Understand, STAY for T1.

04 06 47 15 CC
Roger. And we see you venting the 0X.

04 06 47 20 LMP (TRANQ)
Roger.




The first step:

04 13 23 11 CDR (TRANQ)
It takes a pretty good little jump.

Oh 13 23 25 CC
Buzz, this is Houston. F/2 - 1/160th second for shadow photography on the sequence camera.

04 13 23 35 LMP (TRANQ)
Okay.

04 13 23 38 CDR (TRANQ)
I'm at the foot of the ladder. The LM footpads are only depressed in the surface about 1 or 2 inches, although the surface appears to be very, very fine grained, as you get close to it. It's almost like a powder. Down there, it's very fine.

04 13 23 43 CDR (TRANQ)
I'm going to step off the LM now.

04 13 24 48 CDR (TRANQ)
THAT'S ONE SMALL STEP FOR (A) MAN, ONE GIANT LEAP FOR MANKIND.

04 13 24 48 CDR (TRANQ)
And the - the surface is fine and powdery. I can - I can pick it up loosely with my toe. It does adhere in fine layers like powdered charcoal to the sole and sides of my boots. I only go in a small fraction of an inch, maybe an eighth of an inch, but I can see the footprints of my boots and the treads in the fine, sandy particles.

04 13 25 30 CC
Neil, this is Houston. We're copying.

04 13 25 45 CDR (EVA)
There seems to be no difficulty in moving around as we suspected. It's even perhaps easier than the simulations at one sixth g that we performed in the various simulations on the ground. It's actually no trouble to walk around. Okay. The descent engine did not leave a crater of any size. It has about 1 foot clearance on the ground. We're essentially on a very level place here. I can see some evidence of rays emanating from the descent engine, but a very insignificant amount.

04 13 26 54 CDR (EVA)
Okay, Buzz, we ready to bring down the camera?

04 13 26 59 LMP (EVA)
I'm all ready. I think it's been all squared away and in good shape.

04 13 27 03 CDR (EVA)
Okay.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:41 PM

Bruce:

Thanks for that. The original is more exciting than all the annals of Barsoom.



A


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: frogprince
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:45 PM

The real truth is, for the actual first step Amstrong took, he turned off the mike and said, "This one is for you, Mr. O'Reilly".


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: heric
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:58 PM

04 13 29 06 CDR (EVA)
That's one small leak for a man.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: olddude
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 01:03 PM

I think his first words were, I sure hope I don't step in any wiener dog shit


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 01:19 PM

That's a constant concern around here.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:57 PM

Cool. Anybody know this poem? Somebody's post made me think of it and now I can't find the post to do the correct attribution, sorry!

The First Men On Mercury

-We come in peace from the third planet.
Would you like to take us to your leader?

-Bawr stretter! Bawr. Bawr. Stretterhawl?

-This is a little plastic model
of the solar system, with working parts.
You are here and we are there and we
are now here with you, is this clear?

-Gawl horrop. Bawr. Abawrhannahanna!

-Where we come from is blue and white
with brown, you see we call the brown
here 'land', the blue is 'sea', and the white
is 'clouds' over land and sea, we live
on the surface of the brown land,
all around is sea and clouds. We are 'men'.
Men come-

-Glawp men! Gawrbenner menko. Menhawl?

-Men come in peace from the third planet
which we call 'earth'. We are earthmen.
Take us earthmen to your leader.

-Thmen? Thmen? Bawr. Bawrhossop.
Yuleeda tan hanna. Harrabost yuleeda.

-I am the yuleeda. You see my hands,
we carry no benner, we come in peace.
The spaceways are all stretterhawn.

-Glawn peacemen all horrabhanna tantko!
Tan come at'mstrossop. Glawp yuleeda!

-Atoms are peacegawl in our harraban
Menbat worrabost from tan hannahanna.

-You men we know bawrhossoptant. Bawr.
We know yuleeda. Go strawg backspetter quick.

-We cantantabawr, rantingko backspetter now!

-Banghapper now! Yes, third planet back.
Yuleeda will go back blue, white, brown
nowhanna! There is no more talk.

-Gawl han fasthapper?

-No. You must go back to your planet.
Go back in peace, take what you have gained
but quickly.

-Stretterworra gawl, gawl...

-Of course, but nothing is ever the same,
now is it? You'll remember Mercury.

Edwin Morgan


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:02 PM

"Neil, feed the meter. Uh, anyone got a gronald?"


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: GUEST,robomatic
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:06 PM

Hope Eyrie
Copyright ©1975 by Leslie Fish


Worlds grow old and suns grow cold
And death we never can doubt.
Time's cold wind, wailing down the past,
Reminds us that all flesh is grass
And history's lamps blow out.


But the Eagle has landed; tell your children when.
Time won't drive us down to dust again.
Cycles turn while the far stars burn,
And people and planets age.
Life's crown passes to younger lands,
Time brushes dust of hope from his hands
And turns another page.


But the Eagle has landed; tell your children when.
Time won't drive us down to dust again.
But we who feel the weight of the wheel
When winter falls over our world
Can hope for tomorrow and raise our eyes
To a silver moon in the opened skies
And a single flag unfurled.


But the Eagle has landed; tell your children when.
Time won't drive us down to dust again.
We know well what Life can tell:
If you would not perish, then grow.
And today our fragile flesh and steel
Have laid our hands on a vaster wheel
With all of the stars to know


That the Eagle has landed; tell your children when.
Time won't drive us down to dust again.
From all who tried out of history's tide,
Salute for the team that won.
And the old Earth smiles at her children's reach,
The wave that carried us up the beach
To reach for the shining sun.


For the Eagle has landed; tell your children when.
Time won't drive us down to dust again.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: frogprince
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:17 PM

Does everyone here already know why Armstrong dedicated that first step to Mr. O'Reilly?


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:53 PM

I don't....


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:59 PM

As that transcript indicates, the answer is "413 is in". Not the most exciting words, but it could win you a bet.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: TheSnail
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:43 PM

the answer is "413 is in".

So "42" was wrong after all.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: GUEST,robomatic
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:10 PM

I hereby request the stupid joke frogprince is about to post be removed from this thread for reasons of mental vacuity.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:31 PM

"Blow me Aldrin, you little religious faggot.......I am the first!!!"

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:34 PM

I've heard it before. The joke that is. But I ain't gonna steal anyone's thunder. Nope. Not me.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: frogprince
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:44 PM

Now I have to do it:

When Armstrong was a kid, he lived next door to Mr.and Mrs. O'Reilly.
One day he was playing ball with some buddies in his yard. A stray ball landed just under the O'Reilly's bedroom window. Just as Neil was picking it up, he heard Mrs. O'Reilly's voice saying, "You want me to do WHAT?; I'LL DO THAT THE DAY THE KID NEXT DOOR WALKS ON THE MOON!!".

It's more fun when you hear how Steve Gillette has made a song out of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:45 PM

To be serious for a moment (which is boring as hell).......A friend and I were discussing this just today and if NASA had had their druthers, Armstrong would not have been the first there. He was an engineer first and a test pilot second and not the kind of the guy (then or now) that you want to make history shattering remarks. Were it totally up to him there would have been no prepared phrase as he viewed that as crap whereas the flight was foremost.

Any number of astronauts would have been better in serving history but that's not how the rotation worked. And there could have been some far worse like Gus Grissom had he lived. Gus might have jumped off the landing pad, thrown a finger to the sky, and yelled, "Fuckin' A right Bubba! Up yours Russia!" So maybe Neil was okay..........



Spaw


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Phot
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 09:28 PM

"Everyone remember where we parked!"

Wassail!! Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 09:16 AM

You know I listened to the recent programme intently and I heard "Its one small step for man......"
"Its" - did I mishear?

And I was listening for an audible break where the artefacts of the transmission could have removed the apocryphal "a" and that contentious arguement is not that credible.

Maybe my hearing and memory are not what they should be - next time I will keep the recording.

I was expecting someone to know where to get the transcript, and a load of humorous suggestions. Thanks guys.

I though Armstrong might have looked straight at the camera and said "Green Cheese" - or is that a British thing?


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 09:29 AM

Actually, he said "It's". You can distinctly hear the apostrophe.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 09:34 AM

or was it tits, my hearing is not so good LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 09:41 AM

Considering that dachshunds had been there first, it might have been "Shits!"


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: goatfell
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 10:27 AM

now that is what I call a cover-up, tell our families we'll home for dinner


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 10:50 AM

Sorry, 413 is 12 seconds AFTER landing.


Landing:

04 06 45 40 LMP (EAGLE)
CONTACT LIGHT.

04 06 45 43 LMP (EAGLE)
Okay. ENGINE STOP.

04 06 45 45 LMP (EAGLE)
ACA - out of DETENT.

04 06 45 46 CDR (EAGLE)
Out of DETENT.

04 06 45 47 LMP (EAGLE)
MODE CONTROL - both AUTO. DESCENT ENGINE COMMAND OVERRIDE - OFF. ENGINE ARM - OFF.

04 06 45 52 LMP (EAGLE)
413 is in.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: goatfell
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 11:01 AM

but did they really land there?

I'm not so sure


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 11:19 AM

Goatfell:

There are small mirrors on the moon today. They are used by scientists to reflect lasers aimed with great precision, conducting experiments relating to light-speed transmissions and such. If the landing on the Moon was rigged, how do you suppose they got there? HElpful seraphim?


A

Reference:

"Ringed by footprints, sitting in the moondust, lies a 2-foot wide panel studded with 100 mirrors pointing at Earth: the "lunar laser ranging retroreflector array." Apollo 11 astronauts Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong put it there on July 21, 1969, about an hour before the end of their final moonwalk. Thirty-five years later, it's the only Apollo science experiment still running.

University of Maryland physics professor Carroll Alley was the project's principal investigator during the Apollo years, and he follows its progress today. "Using these mirrors," explains Alley, "we can 'ping' the moon with laser pulses and measure the Earth-moon distance very precisely. This is a wonderful way to learn about the moon's orbit and to test theories of gravity."

Here's how it works: A laser pulse shoots out of a telescope on Earth, crosses the Earth-moon divide, and hits the array. Because the mirrors are "corner-cube reflectors," they send the pulse straight back where it came from. "It's like hitting a ball into the corner of a squash court," explains Alley. Back on Earth, telescopes intercept the returning pulse--"usually just a single photon," he marvels.

The round-trip travel time pinpoints the moon's distance with staggering precision: better than a few centimeters out of 385,000 km, typically.

Targeting the mirrors and catching their faint reflections is a challenge, but astronomers have been doing it for 35 years. A key observing site is the McDonald Observatory in Texas where a 0.7 meter telescope regularly pings reflectors in the Sea of Tranquility (Apollo 11), at Fra Mauro (Apollo 14) and Hadley Rille (Apollo 15), and, sometimes, in the Sea of Serenity. There's a set of mirrors there onboard the parked Soviet Lunokhud 2 moon rover--maybe the coolest-looking robot ever built.

In this way, for decades, researchers have carefully traced the moon's orbit, and they've learned some remarkable things, among them:

    (1) The moon is spiraling away from Earth at a rate of 3.8 cm per year. Why? Earth's ocean tides are responsible.

    (2) The moon probably has a liquid core.

    (3) The universal force of gravity is very stable. Newton's gravitational constant G has changed less than 1 part in 100-billion since the laser experiments began.

see captionPhysicists have also used the laser results to check Einstein's theory of gravity, the general theory of relativity. So far, so good: Einstein's equations predict the shape of the moon's orbit as well as laser ranging can measure it. But Einstein, constantly tested, isn't out of the woods yet. Some physicists (Alley is one of them) believe his general theory of relativity is flawed. If there is a flaw, lunar laser ranging might yet find it."

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/21jul_llr.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 11:20 AM

but did they really land there?

Any amount of this sort of thing on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdMvQTNLaUE


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 11:34 AM

Although he was SUPPOSED to say 'a small step for A man', Armstrong actually fluffed his lines and missed the A, making a nonsense of the whole phrase, as 'man' and 'mankind' are equivalent.... and both examples of the false generic.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: meself
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 12:03 PM

Heard Armstrong interviewed on CBC Radio show "As It Happens" a year or two ago. He insisted that he had said, "for A man". I would give him the benefit of the doubt - it's the sort of little word that might not come out distinctly enough to show up on any sort of audio analysis of the transmission. The word "a" when spoken can sometimes be little more than an exhalation of breath - which might not be heard all the way from the moon to the earth.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: heric
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 12:21 PM

I saw a documentary where he said he thinks he did and tried to but if I didn't I hope you'll cut me some slack in light of the other stuff we did.

I clearly remember being a little kid watching a pre-lauch interview and upon being asked what his first words wouild be, he said he didn't know, and that it would be spontaneous. THEN, during the landing, those words came out and there's me, not even ten, realizing that even astronauts can be full of bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: heric
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 12:28 PM

I read somewhere (I hope it wasn't above) that the landing module computer had 4 kilobytes of RAM.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 01:28 PM

"University of Maryland physics professor Carroll Alley was the project's principal investigator during the Apollo years, and he follows its progress today. "Using these mirrors," explains Alley, "we can 'ping' the moon with laser pulses and measure the Earth-moon distance very precisely. This is a wonderful way to learn about the moon's orbit and to test theories of gravity.""

My teacher in Quantum Physics ( 74-78). He also developed the adjustments top the atomic clocks for GPS.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: 3refs
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:06 PM

Watched a program the other night that suggests that the moon is actually a part of the earth.
Billions of years ago, there was a collision between our little rock and an asteroid. When the dust settled, all the debry that was blown into space, created the earth and the moon.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:06 PM

Yeah, the moon formed pretty early in the formation of the planet. We're listed as binary in many media, although of course to US we're the Earth and they're just the Moon.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:18 PM

U. of Maryland. College Park.

Well, THAT explains a lot of things.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Skivee
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:13 PM

3Refs, oddly enough, considering the larger subject of this thread, you may be amused to hear that the proof of the theory is the chemical composition of the moon rocks brought back by the Apollo program.
Prior to this, the theory was considered an "also ran"; with capture and accretion theories leading the pack. Once the chemical analysis was available, capture and accretion were as dead as flat Earth.
The laser retro-reflectors are actually at still working well at many of the landing sites. They are a bit dimmed dust kicked up electrostatically at each lunar sunrise by charged particles in the solar wind, but they remain a verifiable proof of the missions.
The last time I heard... about 6 months back, a careful analysis of the mission tapes shows that Armstrong ommitted the "a". It wasn't a drop-out in transmittion. Armstrong has agreed that he dropped the word. It also doesn't seem to be profoundly important to him. More like, "gee, I thought I said the "a". I wish I had. Okay, can we get back to substance, now".
I think that, considering he was deeply involed in the technicalities of staying alive while 1/4 million miles fromv Earth, he should be cut some slack.
The fact that he has eschewed the scarf-wearing-noble-stanced- surrounded-by-an-entourage sci-fi image of the great space explorer speaks well about the man's character.There are plenty of self-promoting loud-mouths in the world.
His first words on the moon were the LEAST important part of the mission.

PS Spaw, large chunks of what your friend said is hooey.
The moon landings were not run by the NASA Public Affairs Office( the staff of which I knew fairly well during the later Apollo era).
The choice of who would be the first man on the moon was made by Deke Slayton, head of astronaut operations. Aldrin would have been the first out, but Slayton changed the mission plan.
Armstrong was well regarded by fellow astronauts and the Agency heads because of his cool-headed handling of several emergencies...The Lunar Lander Training vehicle crash, and the Gemini 8-Agena reaction control motor incident stand out.
This same coolness served him well when he found that his landing site had an unaccepatble debris field. He flew the Eagle in a gliding hover over the moonscape for a looooong time, burning fuel and looking for a better area.
When they landed, he had 30 seconds to empty tanks. If he had run out of fuel or even aborted at such a low altitude, they would have died. The changeover of systems would have taken too long when he was down among the weeds. The point is that he wasn't being reckless; he was being precise.
All the astronauts were top notch. None of them were just "engineers" or just "test pilots". Check out the programs that Armstrong was deeply involved in: X-15, F-100, F-101 Voodoo, F-104, KC-135 testing and others. Most of pilots in his group had similar qualifications.
They endured crap that most folks have no idea of. Did you know that most of them had their fingernails peeled back by their EVA glove fingertips til they bled? How about the discomfort of normal body functions while unable to clean up with anything but baby wipes for about a week while in a can the size of a WV bug with two other fetid guys in the same boat? There's more, but I'll spare you. You're welcome.
So here's the question. Would you rather have had the astronaut known for history shattering remarks at the controls, or the guy who knew exactly how much of a calculated risk to take to accomplish a history shattering event?
The truth is that ANY of them could have done a good job. The were the best we had. Slayton chose the one he thought was the best of the best.

Grissom, being mostly 2 1/2 years dead at that point, was not in consideration for mission commander.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:52 PM

I don't think there would in fact be any discernible difference between saying "A small step f'r'a man" and "A small step for man". Any difference would lie purely in the intention of the person saying the words, and in the expectation of the listener.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Skivee
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 09:54 PM

I rather like Armstrong's suggestion of the parenthetical a.
It shows his intent, but also what he actually said.
And yes, MoH, you're right.


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Alice
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 11:28 PM

Dats one small step for a kitty..........


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Subject: RE: BS: The real first words on the the moon???
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 04:59 AM

I have studied the documentary broadcast here in the UK and I didn't hear any hint of the "a" but wasn't looking for "fr'a" - I still have the recording.

And I did re-run the whole sentence to see if I could determine the first word. Even allowing for the nature of clipped transmissions which was the character of the time, the first word is "It's". If it were "That's" I would have to hear "at's" and I don't. The other possibility (which I can't hear) is that the clipping was so bad that all we hear is "t's" making it sound more like a glottal stop. But not to my ears.

So "it's one small step ............"

Of course a documentary is not fact, and if you knew what they do - (arrogantly in the name of entertainment). But when I hear the audio in one long run I don't perceive any falsification unless NASA did it originally.

And I still say the synchronisation of audio and video is not automatically precise. We will never know.


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