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Tuners

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JR 13 Jul 99 - 01:59 PM
Bert 13 Jul 99 - 02:02 PM
Richard Bridge 13 Jul 99 - 02:20 PM
Easy Rider 13 Jul 99 - 02:26 PM
Allan C. 13 Jul 99 - 02:56 PM
Ted from Australia 13 Jul 99 - 06:07 PM
Mudjack 13 Jul 99 - 06:45 PM
John in Brisbane 13 Jul 99 - 08:12 PM
jeffs 13 Jul 99 - 08:41 PM
Roger in Baltimore 13 Jul 99 - 10:28 PM
gargoyle 13 Jul 99 - 11:11 PM
Helen 14 Jul 99 - 03:32 AM
Ted from Australia 14 Jul 99 - 05:10 AM
Allan C. 14 Jul 99 - 08:45 AM
Bert 14 Jul 99 - 10:32 AM
catspaw49 14 Jul 99 - 10:58 AM
Easy Rider 14 Jul 99 - 10:58 AM
Joe Offer 14 Jul 99 - 05:55 PM
gargoyle 15 Jul 99 - 12:09 AM
murray@mpce.mq.edu.au 15 Jul 99 - 02:34 AM
Easy Rider 15 Jul 99 - 09:27 AM
JR 15 Jul 99 - 10:58 AM
Barbara 15 Jul 99 - 12:11 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Jul 99 - 04:51 PM
j0_77 15 Jul 99 - 08:00 PM
Helen 15 Jul 99 - 08:32 PM
murrray@mpce.mq.edu.au 16 Jul 99 - 02:26 AM
hank 16 Jul 99 - 08:49 AM
Jeri 16 Jul 99 - 11:34 AM
j0_77 16 Jul 99 - 01:59 PM
j0_77 16 Jul 99 - 02:00 PM
Legal Eagle 16 Jul 99 - 06:26 PM
Easy Rider 01 Aug 99 - 11:03 PM
Jeremiah McCaw 02 Aug 99 - 12:31 AM
DonMeixner 02 Aug 99 - 12:59 AM
Roger in Baltimore 02 Aug 99 - 06:15 AM
Bugsy 02 Aug 99 - 06:19 AM
Paul S 02 Aug 99 - 07:05 AM
Mark Clark 02 Aug 99 - 01:27 PM
Songster Bob 03 Aug 99 - 12:50 AM
ddw in windsor 04 Aug 99 - 01:27 AM
bseed(charleskratz) 04 Aug 99 - 10:34 AM
JR 04 Aug 99 - 11:10 AM
Rick Fielding 04 Aug 99 - 11:33 AM
catspaw49 04 Aug 99 - 11:45 AM
ddw in windsor 04 Aug 99 - 10:17 PM
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Subject: Tuners
From: JR
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 01:59 PM

My four year old Sabine tuner just died. Apparently they aren't repairable, & I'm one of the unfortunates that need one. Any suggestions for best combination of price/features ? Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Bert
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 02:02 PM

I've got a Korg, cost about $80, works fine.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 02:20 PM

Ive never met one that was perfect but all seem to do it better and faster than I can without one - and tune a guitar too.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Easy Rider
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 02:26 PM

I just discovered the Intellitouch tuner. It is WONDERFUL! It clamps on to your guitar's headstock and displays whatever note you are playing. It's fast and accurate and stable. I wouldn't leave home without it. I'm throwing away my Korg.

Go to: Intellitouch


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Allan C.
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 02:56 PM

Gotta agree with you, ER, a friend introduced me to the Intellitouch a couple of weeks ago. I was really impressed!


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 06:07 PM

The Intellitouch sounds great -- but it looks kinda flimsy and I wouldnt like to clamp anything like that to my guitar head so tight that it would not fall off
I have had a Boss TU 12 for about 12 years It's TOUGH having seen me through countless gigs.
It works acoustic or plug in or in line. (You can lend it so another, tunerless insrumentalist with ANY instrument can get in tune)
It has a meter needle and indicator lights (for those dark smokey pubs)
Can be set for A440-A445 (Not often used but sometimes you run across the odd piano pitched to A445)
More importantly it can be set for GUITAR as opposed to fully chromatic(you will have to look at other threads about tuning guitar to find out why this can be so crucial)
OK OK I'll stop sounding like a commercial and tell you that in OZ at least they are EXPENSIVE, but if I lost mine I would buy another straight away. (Shit :-) I'm still sounding like a commercial) I'm sold

Regards, Ted.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Mudjack
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 06:45 PM

I use a LocOn . It has a wooden case and small enough to velcro it right on the guitar. Best feature is it is a chromatic tuner with an input jack. I can tune all my instruments, and with a piezolectric cord, can tune in the most adverse noisy conditions. It gets my highest recomendation. The intellatouch looks like it should do the job. Cost might give to the choice. Mine cost about $60.00 which was discounted by 10%.
Mudjack


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 08:12 PM

Ted, I can pick you up a Boss at lots of porn (did I spell that right?) shops in Bris for around $45 - $50 Australian. Someone may have to tell me the difference between the models TU-12, TU-?. I believe that there are some feature differences.

Regards
John


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: jeffs
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 08:41 PM

I have an intellitouch and a boss-12h. The big advantage of the intellitouch is that you can use it in a noisy room. It's also small and light enough to put in a shirt pocket and best of all it shuts itself off automatically. It's chromatic, autoranging (but I don't know what it's lower range is, I use it on my fiddle), and you can set A to something else. I think you can find them for about $45 USD.

The boss is a pretty nice tuner. The things that I don't like are the size and weight and the fact that it will eat batteries if you leave it on. This is not hard since there isn't a power on light. I think there's a guitar (standard tuning only) version but I wouldn't swear to it.

jeff


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 10:28 PM

I have not tried a lot of tuners, but I have been completely happy with my Sabine AX 2000 tuner. It sticks on your guitar (or other instrument) with a Post-It Note like sticky. It comes off and goes on with ease. Sabine suggests you not store it on your instrument since it could get really stuck. It also may be troublesome for vintage instruments that have some checking (might pull the finish off). You store it in a little plastic box to keep the sticky part from collecting dirt. It is easy to clean when necessary however.

It is chromatic with a 12 note even tempered scale. When you strike a string the appropriate note lights up. If it is red, it is sharp, if it is yellow it is flat, and of course if it is green, you are dead on.

If you aren't working at A440, you can strike a string and set it to work at that pitch. I find that useful if I capo high on the guitar and I know all of the strings are slightly out of pitch.

It runs on two lithium batteries and turns itself off (sometimes quicker that I can tune).

Because it basically uses a contact mike, you can tune in a crowd of other players. It is easy to lend to others or to switch from instrument to instrument.

I find it easy to use at gigs. It is about 1 1/4 inches wide and 2 1/2 inches long. Comes in black of fake wood grain.

The only drawback is it looks like your guitar has developed a goiter.

Being tune deaf, I love it.

Big RiB


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: gargoyle
Date: 13 Jul 99 - 11:11 PM

PRACTICE...playing by ear....just snipits here and there, in the morn, in the eve.....

Two years down the road

You will THROW AWAY YOUR TUNER>>>>>>>


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Helen
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 03:32 AM

Ted,

I use a Boss TU-12H for my 34 string Celtic harp. The "H" refers to the top octave which isn't on the 12 model, so I need that for the harp. I have found it to be very good, except it does chew up batteries if I accidentally leave it on - or when I lend it to someone else and forget to check the power button, but I like being able to plug a lead into it from the pick up for noisy situations.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 05:10 AM

John

The TU12H has a white meter surround The TU12 a black< Helen has pointed up the differences.

Regards, Ted.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Allan C.
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 08:45 AM

Gargoyle, my pride had to finally take a back seat a few years ago. I used to be able to tune a guitar in what seemed to be only seconds. A number of people I played with would just hand me their guitars and, moments later, I would hand them back properly tuned. However, like many others, the years are catching up with me. Some small events - such as drilling with a jackhammer in the confines of a concrete vault (my employer had never heard of OSHA) - have collectively taken their toll.

What I am trying to say here is that, like others, the high end of my hearing has been greatly diminished. I now view tuners as necessities, not luxuries.

I am not at all offended by your suggestion to learn to tune by ear. I just want to illustrate one reason why that may not be an option.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Bert
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 10:32 AM

I'm with you Allen C., I used to be a boilermaker and in a noisy room I can't manage without a tuner. Sometimes I wonder what I must sound like when I'm singing.

Bert


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 10:58 AM

I'm with Bert and Allen----more because I build Hammered Dulcimers, an instrument that's time consuming to tune. With a tuner you can get it done quickly and then go back to be sure the instrument is in tune with itself, minor adjustments, but very important.

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Easy Rider
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 10:58 AM

To clear up any misconceptions:

The Intellitouch is very small and light, but it has a BIG display. Its LCD display is backlit, so you can see it even in pitch darkness. Its clamp protects your instrument's headstock with little rubber pads. It is chromatic and can be calibrated for other standards besides A-440. You don't need a piezo cable or a third hand to hold the tuner. It turns itself off, if there is no input for awhile, but that doesn't help you, if you are playing and it is attached to your instrument. I just reach over and touch the power button.

It's on sale, for $44.96 US, through July 31, at First Quality Music Supplies, on the Internet.

fqms

I just ordered one more for me and one for a friend.

Go for it, EZR


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 05:55 PM

My sweetie doesn't trust my fancy electronic doodads. When I play with her, she insists that I tune my guitar so it matches her accordion. She says she can't tune the accordion, so that means her accordion has to be the standard. I use the electronic tuner when she's not looking...
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: gargoyle
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 12:09 AM

Let me guess>>>

the BIG DISPLAY is helpful for those musicians

that are visually (firework fans and arc welders)

as well as audotorially (jack-hammers and boiler-makers)impaired.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 02:34 AM

I recently got a SEIKO ST-747 for tuning our clavichord. I have to admit that I do slip it into my room and tune my guitar with it. I think it is very accurate and easy to use; however it is definitely not for use in a performance situation. It has no background lighting and there is no convenient way to fasten it to (or ever near) the guitar.

I have noticed one funny phenomenon. This gadget shows when you are off by cents. 20 cents looks like a huge swing on the (lcd imitated) meter. Yet I can't hear 20 cents. It sort-of gives you a distorted idea of tuning. It reminds me of when digital watches first came out. A friend of mine got one and one day I ran into him in the hallway pacing up and down looking at his watch. When I said "hello" he said "the b---rd is 59 seconds late!! It seems he has an appointment with somebody. I don't know if he believed me when I told him that with his old watch 59 seconds would have seemed a trivial, if even noticably degree of lateness.

One related item. The tuners described here seem to all be chromatic (including mine). I am sure these are tuned to a well-temered scale whereas the guitar is tuned to an equal tempered scale. Because of this, once you tune your strings to the tuner, you will find that some fretted notes are a few cents off and with these meters it looks like a lot. Don't get worried that your guitar has faulty intonation. (Of course, if you want to start really picking nits, you should have never tuned your strings well-tempered anyway ;-}

Murray


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Subject: RE: Tuners - Tuning
From: Easy Rider
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 09:27 AM

"One related item. The tuners described here seem to all be chromatic (including mine). I am sure these are tuned to a well-temered scale whereas the guitar is tuned to an equal tempered scale. Because of this, once you tune your strings to the tuner, you will find that some fretted notes are a few cents off and with these meters it looks like a lot. Don't get worried that your guitar has faulty intonation. (Of course, if you want to start really picking nits, you should have never tuned your strings well-tempered anyway ;-}" --------------------------------------------------------

I know what equal tempered tuning is (even distances between all notes), but what is well tempered tuning? The Intellitouch literature says it uses equal tempered tuning.

I have noticed that, after I get the open string in perfect tune, some of the fretted notes, on that string, are off by cents (how much is a cent?). I have even noticed that the fretted note, at the twelfth fret, the octave, is off a little, on some strings. My ear isn't good enough to be bothered by this, but I wonder if the intonation should be adjusted for those strings?

EZR


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: JR
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 10:58 AM

Thanks to all for opinions & info. NOw all I have to do is decide.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Barbara
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 12:11 PM

Another reason for buying a tuner when you have good to great pitch is illustrated by Gordon Bok's name for the gizmo: electronic arbitrator.

Sometimes even really good musicians have slightly different ideas about the pitch (as in true vs tempered), and it has been my experience that some people like to sing/play/tune thirds sharper than others.

Dragging out the "arbitrator" at that point can drastically reduce the amount of time you spend tuning, arguing with the other musicians, and save hurt feelings.

Blessings,
Barbara


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 04:51 PM

I believe I have seen tuners advertised which will switch between equal and well tempered, the other one with the name I can't remember, and natural pitch as well. I don't know if anyone has yet made one for the new fangled patented (I'm not joking) tuning which involves a non-straight nut and offsets in the string pitches to roduce sweeter chords in all positions. Mine doesn't have any such features and I'm not sure I'm good enough to need them. To my ear guitarists who use harmonic tunings tend not to tune to true equal temperamant anyway.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: j0_77
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 08:00 PM

Oh dear here we go again - tuning is about pitch which used to be detectd by errrr listening. A harmonic sound does not 'have to' start at any pitch - you can start at any 'tension' for the root note string. Electronic tuners cannot help here. Its up to your ears to make the chord :) If you must use one of these devices after tuning make a chord and check each note in that. Suprised will you be that some of the notes are 'off' and the chord does sound out. I once had the misfortune to sit next to a Martin Guitarist who both used a digital tuner and a bad set up soooo when playing in G (Popular key these days) the root note off of the Bass E String was SHARP - This particular guitar makes a big NOISE on the bass strings sooo the whole chord came out like yeucchhhh. But the player (tone deaf) just kept walloping away. I rest my case. GET RID OF THESE digital lying tuners OR train people how to use em. I prefer the former -


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Helen
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 08:32 PM

jo-77,

I had my first Celtic harp - 36 strings - for at least five years, with no teacher, until I met an American woman staying over here in Australia who could play the harp. For all of that five years I didn't know that there was such a thing as an electronic tuner. Every time I tried to play the harp I would spend at least an hour, usually an hour and a half, trying to tune all of those strings. By the time I got it halfway in tune, at least with itself, but maybe not to perfect pitch I was so frustrated that I would pack the harp away again in the corner and not feel like playing it for another few weeks, by which time it was out of tune again and the whole frustrating process would start again.

As a consequence I made no progress with the harp at all for the first 5 years. I couldn't play anything. When my friend told me about the electronic tuner it completely changed my ability to do some *real* practice and learning on the harp. I could tune up all 36 strings in less than 10 minutes and then check that they sounded in tune with each other by playing some chords and then I was off.

There are some situations where to "get rid of these" tuners also means getting rid of the whole learning and playing experience. I don't think that that is a viable option. We all have different musical needs, and different uses for playing music, so we also have different needs for electronic tuners. I'll never be a professional musician - I'm an amateur, in the true sense of the word. I do it because I *love* it, not because I want to play professionally.

Regards Helen


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: murrray@mpce.mq.edu.au
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 02:26 AM

Easy Rider. A cent is 1/100 of a Herz (cycle per second). When you listen to beats you are usually listening to about one beat per second--so you can imagine how small a cent is in real terms. All of these temperings are compromises to allow us to play our intsrument in a lot of different keys using the same frets (or keys, etc.). Of these Well tempering is the newest and the best compromise. Unfortunately it requires that every sring is used for only one note (like on the piano) so we can't use it for guitars. Lutiers choose the second best which is equal temprament.

Helen, I think the contraversy as to whether an electronic tuner should be used usually applies to instruments with a few strings--guitars, banjos, violins, etc. where the situation you describe of spending your life tuning doesn't exist. By the way, how do you tune if you are playing with somebody else. What do orchestral harpists do?

Murray


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: hank
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 08:49 AM

We give those who break their legs a crutch for a few weeks while they gain the naterual strength to hold themsleves up. We give beginners an electric tuner while they gain the ability to tune. We let them keep it for life because the electronic arbitrator is a useful tool when there are arguments. (A better tool would be someone who everyone agrees has perfect pitch)

When I first started with my Mandolin I didn't have a chance of tuning it correctly without, I tried and broke an E string a couple times. (I knew enough to start with the smallest string, which won't damage the insterment, the G string could do damage in theory at least) Two nights ago I did the tuning and only used the tuner to get the one string on key, and then the last fine tuning at the end (I don't know how many cents, but it wasn't many). I expect that someday I'll be able to tune without it.

If you need a crutch use one. Being perfectly in tune by the tuner is better then being in tune to your tonedeaf ear, and clashing to everyone else. You can build tone deafness into good hearing with practice. (assuming you have good enough ears to begin with)


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 11:34 AM

One other advantage to using a tuner is you can tune in a noisey environment. If you're in a session, you have to get everybody to stop playing, tune loud enough to interfere with folks' playing, or take the instrument somewhere quiet.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: j0_77
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 01:59 PM

Oh no ... when I started to tune instruments we had ...guessss ...yup even in prehistoric times before the Video and Star Wars and Bruce (the mega thwapper) Springstein before Bob Dylan an a whole bunch of now famous folkies there were devices used to tune. A tuning Fork usually 'A' since this is the most difficult to set. Now it is both good and bad thing that chords or scales can be exactly in tune since the listener hears a true harmonic image BUT if the 'key' be changed the notes are not in tune. How it used be done. Set up one exact pitch then use Harmonics to get the next and so on. Occassionaly an additional tuning fork may be required where the user has a 'deaf' spot in their hearing range. I used be weak on 'C'. (Actually I had no tuning fork to begin but used an old piano and later the sound of a Vacuum Cleaner - errr I found it was easier since this sound did not decay like a string. I know you are thinking 'wait a mo you can't tune to a Vacuum Cleaner?? Well I did. ) General comments about tuning and music. Since musical sounds are 'waves' and tunes are made of both notes (little bundles of waves) and rhythm (louder or longer little bundles of waves), it is imperative that a player have some native ability to hear and evaluate these. So if the chord of 'C' sounds like a chainsaw to you probably you should be a lumberjack. Without providing some remote reader with the entire abstract for a thesis I assert if ya can't tune THEN you can't rhythm either- soooo ya will always be playing 'through' yer head (tuners an metronomes -counting etc) and not with yer ears. Here are some tips for the tone deaf. Can you recall the sound of your Fridge? Even if you are in the yard try to imagine that sound :) Now tune some thing to that image. Here you can put that Digital Lying Tuner to some good use. Check to see which note you've tuned :) Tips for people who have problems with Rhythm. Make a sound and WAIT then repeat the process. NOTE After a lifetime of teaching I must say this last lesson is the hardest to learn. In these long times I also observed people who most want to play ON STAGE listen the least(they will talk, fidget and do not pay attention) : and people who listen most are the hardest to get to play or perform. Some folk learn to play in order to get that attention others just 'play' and cannot ever recall learning. Confused? Ask yourself this what does '*P*L*A*Y' mean. For those who need 'attention' - have you ever thought about trying yer hand at acting, juggling, magic, politics TV Radio??? What I am saying is very unpopular - some folk have it when born. It is an attitude - it is a gift - it is a fact because it is true. MUSIC. Others run around the edges for ever but need a crutch - I have no problems with that EXCEPT where I pay $20 to go to a show and have to listen to a Martin Guitar being walloped which IS OUT OF TUNE and the player knows only one 'kind' of music - these days usually bluegrass. Far as I know there IS only one kind of music. There never were any 'other' kinds except in the heads of people who choose to IGNORE certain sounds in their world. Are we getting close to some truths here? People who cannot/willnot listen - Just wondering.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: j0_77
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 02:00 PM

Oh no ... when I started to tune instruments we had ...guessss ...yup even in prehistoric times before the Video and Star Wars and Bruce (the mega thwapper) Springstein before Bob Dylan an a whole bunch of now famous folkies there were devices used to tune. A tuning Fork usually 'A' since this is the most difficult to set. Now it is both good and bad thing that chords or scales can be exactly in tune since the listener hears a true harmonic image BUT if the 'key' be changed the notes are not in tune. How it used be done. Set up one exact pitch then use Harmonics to get the next and so on. Occassionaly an additional tuning fork may be required where the user has a 'deaf' spot in their hearing range. I used be weak on 'C'. (Actually I had no tuning fork to begin but used an old piano and later the sound of a Vacuum Cleaner - errr I found it was easier since this sound did not decay like a string. I know you are thinking 'wait a mo you can't tune to a Vacuum Cleaner?? Well I did. ) General comments about tuning and music. Since musical sounds are 'waves' and tunes are made of both notes (little bundles of waves) and rhythm (louder or longer little bundles of waves), it is imperative that a player have some native ability to hear and evaluate these. So if the chord of 'C' sounds like a chainsaw to you probably you should be a lumberjack. Without providing some remote reader with the entire abstract for a thesis I assert if ya can't tune THEN you can't rhythm either- soooo ya will always be playing 'through' yer head (tuners an metronomes -counting etc) and not with yer ears. Here are some tips for the tone deaf. Can you recall the sound of your Fridge? Even if you are in the yard try to imagine that sound :) Now tune some thing to that image. Here you can put that Digital Lying Tuner to some good use. Check to see which note you've tuned :) Tips for people who have problems with Rhythm. Make a sound and WAIT then repeat the process. NOTE After a lifetime of teaching I must say this last lesson is the hardest to learn. In these long times I also observed people who most want to play ON STAGE listen the least(they will talk, fidget and do not pay attention) : and people who listen most are the hardest to get to play or perform. Some folk learn to play in order to get that attention others just 'play' and cannot ever recall learning. Confused? Ask yourself this what does '*P*L*A*Y' mean. For those who need 'attention' - have you ever thought about trying yer hand at acting, juggling, magic, politics TV Radio??? What I am saying is very unpopular - some folk have it when born. It is an attitude - it is a gift - it is a fact because it is true. MUSIC. Others run around the edges for ever but need a crutch - I have no problems with that EXCEPT where I pay $20 to go to a show and have to listen to a Martin Guitar being walloped which IS OUT OF TUNE and the player knows only one 'kind' of music - these days usually bluegrass. Far as I know there IS only one kind of music. There never were any 'other' kinds except in the heads of people who choose to IGNORE certain sounds in their world. Are we getting close to some truths here? People who cannot/willnot listen - Just wondering.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Legal Eagle
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 06:26 PM

My trouble and strife has been playing guitar for 40 years. I've been playing for 35. We're Ok but not brilliant. For a while we had a young lad in our band. He is good - very good. Before that we had another old soak in too, and he's one of the best fingerstyle guitarists in Kent and a damn fine singer too (and uses steel claws and plays a dreadnoughtif anyone wants that argument). We all thought we could tune. The first day one of us brought a tuner to practice we did double the amount of work we had done the previous weeks, most of which had been spent setting one string to a tuning fork, all tuning our guitars (and in my case mandolin too) discovering all the guitars disagreed with the recorder and each other, calling each other names, and starting again. We also played with a guy with a big Tak which went badly sharp in the middle of the neck - but he disagreed. I tell you that tuner saved WW3.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Easy Rider
Date: 01 Aug 99 - 11:03 PM

The tuner is still on sale for $44.96, at First Quality Music Suplies, till Aug 31:

FQMS Tuners


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 02 Aug 99 - 12:31 AM

I've got the Sabine stick-on. Works pretty good, but is prone to influence from outside sounds; particularly other instruments when you're on stage. Excellent tuner for normal guitar. Unfortunately, I find it's got problems with my acoustic bass guitars. Fine on the 'G' & 'D' strings, usually has to hunt a bit for the 'A' string, and only occasionally can find the low 'E' string at all (even the 12th fret harmonic). One trick 'though - if I'm using my sweet little GK amp as a monitor, I can stick the Sabine right on the side of the metal cabinet and it picks up much better.

Got a Korg tuner, don't know the model, but near the top & about $85 Canadian. Just plain excellent.

Also got a Fender tuner, about $35 with an old-fashioned VU meter display with a real needle. Why? Because none of those lovely devices that use LCD displays are worth diddley-squat if you're trying to use them at an outdoor daytime gig!

That Intelli-Touch sounds intriguing. Gonna check it out, because the idea of having a tuner to refer to at any time during a performance, and not have to have it in the signal path is very appealing.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: DonMeixner
Date: 02 Aug 99 - 12:59 AM

I once had a friend with perfect pitch, not self proclaimed kind of perfect pitch but the real kind that only a very unlucky few people have. John would tune evrything I owned and all the pay he ever asked for was my friendship. John had that with out his talent, or curse, as the case maybe. John had Asperger's Syndrome and was sometimes labeled as autistic.

John's family pulled him out of the group home I worked at because they were sure he was just faking it. I never saw John again. I once asked John what it was like to have perfect pitch. He said he always had it and had no idea what it was like not to have it. He could enjoy live concert because some one was always out of tune. He said perfect pitch was OK but exact change was always more useful. A fact I have come to appreciate.

I use a Korg AT-1. I like it fine.

Don


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 02 Aug 99 - 06:15 AM

Perfect pitch?

In a local duo, "Nancy Moran and Fett", Fett (he must have a real name) had perfect pitch. He could reach over in the middle of a song and adjust Nancy's guitar (while she was playing it) when it was ever so slightly out of tune. Just a little twist of a tuner and he was done. I'm not sure how Nancy could stand it. They have since moved to Nashville.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Bugsy
Date: 02 Aug 99 - 06:19 AM

I used to tune by ear until someone told me how much easier it was to do it with a tuner - so I bought one. Now I rely on the bastard thing and can't tune by ear to save my life.

I wish I'd never got one in the first place.

Bugsy.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Paul S
Date: 02 Aug 99 - 07:05 AM

A friend of my Dad's is a very good old-time fiddler. He absolutely refuses to use a tuner. He lets the rest of the band tune up, then he tunes himself from the guitarist. A quote: "I don't need those things, I just have to make a couple adjustments through the first few songs, then I'm perfectly in tune!".

My response to this: If you had used the tuner, you would have been "perfectly in tune" (or close to it), right from the start.

We drive cars because it's quicker and more convenient than walking. We use a word processor because it is quicker and more convenient than having to write and re-write various drafts of a document.

So what's the shame in using a tuner? I can tune by ear, but I prefer a tuner because (that's right) it's quicker, and more convenient.

P.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Mark Clark
Date: 02 Aug 99 - 01:27 PM

I guess I missed this thread when it was really active. Why didn't Art jump in with his wonderful tuning puns? Maybe they're already posted somewhere else.

I've tried tuning electronically but it is actually slower than doing it by ear and certainly no more accurate. Besides, it gives you one more thing to cart around, keep track of, and buy batteries for.

The best approach to tuning is to practice doing it, just like we practice any other aspect of playing and performing. If you really practice tuning by ear, you'll get very good at it in a surprisingly short time.

Don't use harmonics or fret matching or any of that, just practice hearing how adjacent open strings are supposed to sound and getting the sound right. There is a quiet "beat" you can listen for that helps in the learning. You don't need perfect pitch to do this and the effort invested will pay you back in many ways.

- Mark


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Songster Bob
Date: 03 Aug 99 - 12:50 AM

One thing I recently learned about using an electronic tuner for strings -- the tuner works best when it "hears" a fundamental with few overtones, so the "pluck near the bridge" -- which I learned to do when tuning by ear -- has been replaced by "pluck at the 12th fret." Your ear tells you the note you get isn't "rich" enough to use to tune, but the electronic gizmo eats them vibrations up, and gives you a much quicker "result" on the dial.

Honest.

Bob Clayton


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: ddw in windsor
Date: 04 Aug 99 - 01:27 AM

Easy Rider....

I intended to jump into this thread when it was first posted to ask a question about the Intellitouch tuners, but got sidetracked and didn't get back to it.

The question is: Does it work outside the normal range of guitar tuning? For instance, if I wanted to go into an open D or open C, would it give me a readout when I take the bass E string down that low?

If it does, it sounds perfect for what I need -- which is the ability to retune quickly during a concert. It sure would save the effort of carrying around two or three guitars just so I don't have to fiddle around in the middle of a set.

Hope y ou -- or anybody else who has an Intellitouch -- can answer this for me. I'll check back in a day or two.

thanx

ddw


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 04 Aug 99 - 10:34 AM

ddw: the intellitouch instructions claims that it can tune over a six or seven octave range (I can't remember which) (for that matter, I can't find my intellitouch, either. I go through tuners--what would Thpaw thay here: like castor oil goes through a rabbit with diarrhea...would you thay that, Thpaw? --theed.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: JR
Date: 04 Aug 99 - 11:10 AM

BSeed.. I was heading toward getting an intellitouch, but went into a store to check out prices, & got talked into a Matrix. I still may get an Intelletouch also, but the Matrix does everything my old Sabine did, finds low E every time, and (I'm embarrased to say) only cost $ 14.95. If you going to go thru them THAT fast, you might get a few Matrix.


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Aug 99 - 11:33 AM

Just pick up the phone and listen to the dial tone...it's a perfect "F". Haven't tried this in other than Canada and USA, so I don't know if it's universal.
Rick


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 99 - 11:45 AM

Yeah, I'd thay that. And now for a little mandatory thread creep.

SEED--There was (and still is) an English Prof at Berea who had a serious lisp which he was sensitive about and which was worse when he was angry. Unfortunately his name was (and is) SEARS. So....first day of class, my dumbass and very unworldly roommate goes in and sits down and begins listening to "Dr. THEARS"........Sorry to say Dale had never seen his name in print (we were freshman and Dale had a hard enough time finding the classroom) and well........you got it. About 20 minutes in, Dale has a question, which he begins by saying, "MISTER Thears, I wanted to ask"......and that was as far as he got. Sears was only about 25 with sandy, red hair and a temper to go with it. Sears leaped from behind his desk and yelled, "That's Thears, like in Thears and Roebuck and it's DOCTOR Thears to YOU!!!" This is not the punchline though. As Dale walked down the hall he remarked to my friend (later my longterm roommate) that HE didn't know that "Thears" was a Doctor! Dale graduated and is teaching in Virginia. What must his classes be like?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Tuners
From: ddw in windsor
Date: 04 Aug 99 - 10:17 PM

Seed....

Thanx. Sounds like the Intellitouch is just what I need, having a tin ear and a very bad case of cocktail party syndrome as I do. I've been working with a 20+-year-old Seiko Tunemaster and while it's accurate enough, if there is any ambient noise it's useless.

cheers,

ddw


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