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BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?

Wesley S 02 Jul 09 - 01:13 PM
Rapparee 02 Jul 09 - 01:18 PM
Amos 02 Jul 09 - 01:32 PM
David C. Carter 02 Jul 09 - 01:33 PM
Wesley S 02 Jul 09 - 01:38 PM
VirginiaTam 02 Jul 09 - 01:50 PM
Micca 02 Jul 09 - 01:57 PM
Charmion 02 Jul 09 - 01:59 PM
Zhenya 02 Jul 09 - 02:04 PM
Zhenya 02 Jul 09 - 02:07 PM
PoppaGator 02 Jul 09 - 02:17 PM
Rapparee 02 Jul 09 - 02:22 PM
Amos 02 Jul 09 - 02:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Jul 09 - 04:49 PM
PoppaGator 02 Jul 09 - 05:16 PM
robomatic 02 Jul 09 - 05:35 PM
Rapparee 02 Jul 09 - 05:55 PM
Will Fly 02 Jul 09 - 06:03 PM
number 6 02 Jul 09 - 06:10 PM
Bill D 02 Jul 09 - 07:10 PM
jacqui.c 02 Jul 09 - 07:31 PM
Uncle_DaveO 02 Jul 09 - 07:41 PM
dick greenhaus 02 Jul 09 - 09:37 PM
Rapparee 02 Jul 09 - 09:47 PM
Zhenya 02 Jul 09 - 09:54 PM
Bill D 02 Jul 09 - 11:08 PM
Michael S 02 Jul 09 - 11:42 PM
VirginiaTam 03 Jul 09 - 02:42 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 03 Jul 09 - 03:16 AM
Micca 03 Jul 09 - 03:41 AM
Ron Davies 03 Jul 09 - 07:43 AM
number 6 03 Jul 09 - 10:24 AM
Catherine Jayne 03 Jul 09 - 10:42 AM
Bill D 03 Jul 09 - 11:12 AM
Rapparee 03 Jul 09 - 01:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Jul 09 - 02:54 PM
Zhenya 04 Jul 09 - 02:48 AM
Micca 04 Jul 09 - 04:58 AM
Paul Burke 04 Jul 09 - 07:51 AM
Michael S 04 Jul 09 - 10:14 AM
VirginiaTam 04 Jul 09 - 11:51 AM
Joe Offer 19 Nov 09 - 02:03 PM
VirginiaTam 19 Nov 09 - 02:33 PM
Amos 19 Nov 09 - 02:47 PM
Bill D 19 Nov 09 - 03:09 PM
VirginiaTam 19 Nov 09 - 03:22 PM
Bill D 19 Nov 09 - 03:35 PM
Jack Campin 19 Nov 09 - 05:23 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Nov 09 - 05:39 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Nov 09 - 07:31 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Nov 09 - 08:13 PM
VirginiaTam 20 Nov 09 - 02:44 AM
Jack Campin 20 Nov 09 - 09:39 AM
Becca72 20 Nov 09 - 11:23 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Nov 09 - 12:22 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Nov 09 - 12:58 PM
VirginiaTam 20 Nov 09 - 01:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Nov 09 - 01:21 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 20 Nov 09 - 01:43 PM
Charmion 20 Nov 09 - 01:48 PM
Jack Campin 20 Nov 09 - 01:58 PM
Desert Dancer 20 Nov 09 - 03:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Nov 09 - 05:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Nov 09 - 06:27 PM
John MacKenzie 20 Nov 09 - 06:27 PM
Gulliver 21 Nov 09 - 07:37 AM
C-flat 10 Nov 10 - 09:51 AM
gnomad 11 Nov 10 - 09:52 AM
Green Man 11 Nov 10 - 11:26 AM
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Subject: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:13 PM

I understand that sales are brisk on Kindles – electronic books. And as old fashioned as I am I just don't see the point. To me it's like playing air guitar. Sure it has all of the words – but little of the satisfaction of reading. There is a woman here at work that's able to read at her desk when it's slow and it's pretty easy to cover up the "book" when management walks into the room. But that's the only advantage I can see. Maybe if I were on the space shuttle or on a boat or a desert island where space was limited I could understand owning one. And they cost hundreds of dollars.

I'm sure there are other folks who love them. If so – feel free to express yourself. Myself – I'll be over in the corner with a good book.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:18 PM

Well, like any electronic product they're only as good as the length of the power cord or the lifetime of the batteries.

And I wouldn't want to read one in the bathtub or jacuzzi.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:32 PM

I have read over twenty classics in the last few months on my iPhone. They are a delight--readable, highly p[ortable, bookmarkable. I can read in bedin the dark. The whole libray fits in my pocket. I can grab threeminutes and come back later. It's a lot lighter and easier to handle than a book.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: David C. Carter
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:33 PM

Two of these books for reading in the "bathtub or jacuzzi" would be:

"Royal Flash"

"Flashman and the Mountain of Light"

By George MacDonald Frazier.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:38 PM

Amos - That phone screen must be tiny compaired to a real book. Can I assume your eyesight is pretty good?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:50 PM

Kindle pros
    increase the size of text (for visual impairment)
    not as heavy as book (for people with hand and wrist pain)
    doesn't take up space on shelves as a load of books does
    less to dust too
    can read in the dark
    good carbon footprint re trees

Kindle cons
    initial cost
    running cost (batteries)
    bad carbon footprint re plastic and batteries
    can't take it into bath (well I wouldn't)

All being said, I would rather have the book than the fancy piece of tech. Just feels so right to curl up on sofa on cold grey day and read, read, read. The weight of the book, the turning of the pages, and when you are really engrossed and don't want it to end the dread as the unread side of the book gets smaller and smaller.

Can't experience that with a Kindle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Micca
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:57 PM

Well, I would notbe without mine!! on a standard SD or Memory stick you can hold a complete library! as well as the built in memory,I Too love real books and have a large and extensive collection but having said that. The principle advantage to me of the eBook ( I have a Sony)is that in something the size of a DVD case I have currently (downloaded free from Project Gutenberg)
6 complete Rudyard Kipling books
The complete Para Handy stories 3 Books
The complete Richard Hannay adventures John Buchan
an assortmrnt of novels and newly published works bought off line for about 1/2 the price of the "paper" edition
total 43 books
The Manufacturers complete handbook for both my still cameras
the complete handbook for my video camera
all in PDF format so are complete with black and white diagrams
The text can be enlatged (within certain limits) at the touch of a button!!
It has a built in bookmarker that marks you page
Is well indexed by Title or Author
and is perfect for travel, ahich, is on London transport at the moment, so it is easy to carry, read and a library with a choice of what I want available when I want it!!
Yeah I love it and would reccommend it

Oh By the way it has my complete book of Words of the songs I sing or would like to sing also


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Charmion
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:59 PM

I can hardly wait until the Kindle or something just like it is available in Canada. Why? Because I am a volume consumer of detective stories, fantasy, space opry and thrillers, and the paperbacks pile up in corners of the house at alarming speed.

I would like to be able to buy my fix of literary junk in a moment of impulse without having to trail downtown to Chapters. I would be delighted to have bundles of bad reading packed into a machine that fits neatly into my office bag so I can haul it around with me all the time, and thus have something new to read handy whenever I find myself in need of it. I would be thrilled to have all that without the inevitable accumulation of blocks of paper with luridly coloured covers.

Okay, so the publishing industry is in deep trouble if the Kindle goes truly viral. I think it would be great to stop hurling down the softwood trees of sub-Arctic Canada to support the junk reading habits of people like me, not to speak of the romance fan I saw on the bus the other day with the cover of her book turned back as if it were a magazine.

That's another thing I consume in large quantities: magazines. Just think: no more heaps of old New Yorkers on the coffee table!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Zhenya
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:04 PM

I have a Kindle, which I enjoy using, and still read regular paper books as well. Some advantages to the Kindle are:

- You can have several books with you at once - helpful if, like me, you like to have several things going at once and like to switch back and forth as the mood strikes. This is particularly good when you're traveling.

- You can change (in my case that means ENLARGE) the font size! Good for those of us with aging eyes.

_ Built in dictionary. If you want to check a word definition, you move the cursor in front of the word, and a basic definition appears in fine print at the bottom of the page. If you want more, you can click enter and get the full dictionary entry. Once done, you hit the back button, and it takes you right back to the page you were reading.

- May be cost effective for those who replace paper subscriptions or frequent book buying with cheaper Kindle versions. Until a few weeks ago, I was buying the New York Times on the newsstand each day. (Subscriptions and home delivery don't work out well in my apt. building.) When the price increased in June to $17 a WEEK, I decided to get the Kindle subscription instead, for $14 a MONTH. I figured even if I were to still buy the paper Sunday Times and one paper weekday edition, I'll still save enough in a year to have completely recouped the cost of the Kindle itself. I don't mind reading the paper on the Kindle, and it's still portable this way. For people who like to buy hardcover versions of books as soon as they're released, these are usually available right away on the Kindle for a much lower price.

- There are thousands of completely free legal books, mainly older classics, available through Project Gutenberg and other sites. These have been online for some time, but now you can read them portably in a book like device.

- Instant free wireless delivery. Good to use if you want a book right away, and don't have time to get to a store or order it.

- I've read comments from people who previously had to give up reading due to some physical impairments, but are now able to read again using the Kindle.

The battery life on the Kindle is very good, by the way. I usually charge mine about once a week, at which point the battery's usually a bit below the halfway point. If you don't turn on the wireless function, it will last even longer. The first day or two I had mine, it felt a bit odd to read it, but now it feels like reading a regular book. That is, I'm focused on the reading itself, and not noticing at all that I'm reading it on an electronic gadget.

Having said all this, I feel the Kindle is still at a fairly primitive stage.

- There's no built in file management system. (I need to use a 3rd party program called Calibre to handle things.)

- Many books are not available yet, so if you're seeking a specific book, you may not find it. (No novels by William Faulkner, for example and only a few of John Updike's novels.) I've had no trouble finding plenty to read that I like, but it depends what types of things people want to read. This is one of the main reasons I'm still buying paper books.

- It's still too expensive for many people to consider buying, and would not be cost effective for many people.

- Kindle books from Amazon have DRM restrictions. (But all those free books don't!)

Well, that's (more than) a few thoughts off the top of my head!


For anyone who wants more information about the Kindle's pros and cons, check out the forums here:
Kindle Boards


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Zhenya
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:07 PM

Looks like a popular topic! - as I was writing, I cross-posted with several people. Sorry for any repetition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:17 PM

Whatever "carbon footprint" these devices may have, they do save trees, don't they?

I love to read but hate to buy books. I'd rather save the money, and I have no interest in accumulating stacks of paper and binding that I am unlikely ever to re-read. I'm not a collector ~ of anything.

My strategy has been to patronize the library regularly. As an old dog with some degree of resistance to new tricks, I may not ever switch over to electric books, but then again I just might.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:22 PM

There is definitely a place for e-books and e-ink. There is also a place for regular books.

My wife has perhaps 50 books and god alone knows how much music on her audio player. They're fantastic when she's traveling, as she is now (she'll be in Mulhouse, France tomorrow).

The optical e-books are good for what has been mentioned. I have no quarrel with them at all.

It's just another way of getting information to people, another format for information circulation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:30 PM

No, my eyesight is just average, but the iPhone is backlit and the reading is just as easy as it is on a regular page--they format the page content to about 1/3 a full book page. But to make up for it all you have to do is tap to turn the page either way.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:49 PM

I think it will be a long long time before they have electronic books that come within a light year of the real thing for reliability and convenience.

I've books on my shelves that are well over a hundred years old, and they work just as well as they did when they were first printed, without anything ever being done to keep them that way. Somehow I can't envisage electronic books measuring up to that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:16 PM

Mulhouse, huh? My grandma came from there. (It's in Alsace.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:35 PM

Zhenya:

What's it like to do the NYT Sunday Crossword on a Kindle?

just askin'.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:55 PM

Sounds like a song to me: Mulhouse must be heaven 'cuz my granny came from there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:03 PM

Electronic book readers, like the Kindle, have a lot going for them - a has been pointed out above.

What hasn't been mentioned is the comforting feeling I have when I walk into my lounge, into the spare bedroom and into my music room. Because they are full of old friends - my books. Their bindings and covers, their sizes and smells, their arrangement - some tidily in rows, some heaped up on their side on top of rows, some on the bedside table - are old, familiar, long-loved friends. And some are new friends.

To me a house without books is an empty and desolate affair. It's great to be able to download an e-text from servers all over the world on to my laptop. But it's also wonderful to have my books all around me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: number 6
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:10 PM

Reading from a book ... or an electronic device

No difference in either .... your reading.

Same as listening to music from a hi-fi system ... or an iPod

no difference ... your listening to music


biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:10 PM

I can't really afford another gadget...but I often read on the computer, and now that I have a small laptop, I can use this program: Tom's E-text reader
to do much Kindle users do, or as Amos does, though not quite as easily.

"This program lets you read plain text files - e.g. eTexts as provided by Project Gutenberg - in a book-like manner.

Window size, font style and font size are selectable; page breaks are inserted automatically.
You can set bookmarks, find words or phrases, or edit the text with an internal text editor. A table of contents can be created automatically.
Import text from different file types, including RTF and HTML, and open files directly from zip archives.

There is also a 'Find text in files' tool, page history as in web browsers, and more."

It is free, and it is excellent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:31 PM

We have a friend who is unable to hold even the lightest book, due to disability, but is able to operate a Kindle. That gives her the ability to read.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:41 PM

An advantage to a real book which no one has mentioned so far:

Making marginal comments or notes, cross-references (if it's your own book). I don't expect you can do that on Kindle or iPhone or their ilk.

Yeah, yeah, I know--I, too, was taught in grade school never to write in a book. Which is commendable if you're dealing with someone else's book, like the school's or the library's. But if it's my own book I may occasionally make marginal comments.

YMMV.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:37 PM

biLL- I beg to differ. If your hi-fi system sounds like the MP3 files on an IPod, it's time to get a new system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:47 PM

Take a book on a 3 week backpacking trip into, say, the Bitterroots or the Selways. You've got something to read long after the batteries in electronics would have gone dead (unless you carry another gadget to use solar energy to charge up, assuming it doesn't rain). You can read the book and in extremis use it as tinder to start a fire or to wipe with. You can use pages to write notes for help or to keep a diary.

And the weight will be about the same.

As I said, there are good features to both books and electronic reading devices and there is no reason not to use both if you so wish.

You're reading.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Zhenya
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:54 PM

You CAN make notes in your Kindle books! You have to use the Kindle keyboard, so it's not as easy as just writing something in a book, but you can do it. You can also very easily highlight text (I use this all the time to bookmark, so I can indicate the exact line of text to start at next) and you can bookmark pages as well. There's a menu item you can use later to find all your notes and highlights and such.

Robomatic is absolutely correct that the Kindle edition of the NY Times doesn't currently include the crossword puzzle, although I hear there are plans to make it available on down the road. There are also no classified listings or ads. (That can be both good and bad, depending on what you're looking for.) Although I enjoy the Times crossword puzzles, I'm too busy during the week to get to them at all, and only have time once or twice a month for the Sunday puzzles, so for me personally, this wasn't a problem. As I said above, I still will sometimes buy the Sunday paper, partly because I do enjoy the feeling of reading the paper version. For me, that will be enough to satisfy my sporadic puzzling needs. But for Sundays when I'm super busy and not home much, I'd just as soon save the money and just use the Kindle version. By the way, it' possible to get individual copies without a subscription, and the Sunday edition is only 75 cents.

I also need to emphasize again - I still love my paper books as well! I'm not getting rid of them, and I still enjoy the feeling of browsing through a book store. These things coexist fine for me. Just like my iPod, my CD player, and my record player for my LPs.

I'll end with a quote from David Pogue's NY Times (online only) article today about the Kindle Dx:
"From a reviewer's perspective, the Amazon Kindle is one of the weirdest, most polarizing gadgets ever to come down the pike. I mean, people who love it, love it. People who don't get it, *really* don't get it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:08 PM

I have perhaps 4000 'real' books in my house, and a joy they are....but at my age, and with little space left on the bookshelves, it's also very nice to be able to download public domain items that I can't afford to buy and read them on whatever......


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Michael S
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:42 PM

My wife got me a Kindle for my birthday last April. I was pretty suspicious of it. But I've read two novels on it. I've also read several other books the old fashioned way since getting the Kindle. I'll continue to do both, I imagine.

The Kindle's not at all uncomfortable, you get used to it, and it's just a different experience--not a bad one. It's awfully convenient to carry around. The whole fam's going traveling later this summer and I'm going to be happy to take the Kindle. And you CAN take "margin notes" with it, and finding them is easy. You can look up words without losing your place.

If you find yourself blanking on who some marginal character is, just type the character's name in the space provided. You get a list of references. Just click and you can move temporarily back to the character's first appearance. There's all sorts of neat tricks you can do.

I don't think it will ever replace printed books for me. I still like to own books, real books, on the arts. But it's got a role. And if you do buy books, but don't care about storing them on your shelves, the e-books are cheap compared to the real thing.

Michael Scully


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 02:42 AM

Oh you people are tempting me... carry my lyrics around with me (lever arch file binder full), built in dictionary, easy to find instruction manuals (we keep moving and losing ours), wrist relief from those heavy books, increased text size (my arms aren't long enough) and best of all free books online.

So how is it the UK mudcatters have Kindles because Amazon,UK says it is only available in US? Also how does the free wireless work in the UK? And god! It is expensive in the US. Shudder to think how much it will cost when it comes to the UK because tech is almost always twice as dear in the UK. Apples and IPhones/IPods and Zens when I was shopping were so much more comparatively in UK than in US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:16 AM

Always a real book for me. Can't imagine the sterile feel of a lump of tech. You can't smell the pages either.

Nothing like a good rummage in some fusty second hand bookshop! Can you download second hand kindle? Do you get greeted by a fusty gentleman with his specs halfway down his nose? Do you get to overhear the excitements of a book collector who has just purchased a rare volume of Pagels 'The Origin of Satan'? Nope..


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Micca
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:41 AM

VT as I mentioned above Sony Reader info here which is available in the UK as It is where I live! I have my songbook on it and you can select the font size before loading from your computer and that sets the "Base Line" and then the sizing on the Reader is less a problem ( I am currently resetting my song book to a LARGE Font to this end), if left to its own choice it will import the text size in the program (like Word)which may be too small a start point, the small size text setting on the Reader is NO good to me at all!!
CS I have a rather nice black leather cover for my Reader that feels like a very nice book binding, of course it was sold seperately as an accessory, but IMHO worth the money.
What hasn't been mentioned is also the Reader will play sound files so you can load talking books or music onto a Memory Stick or sdhc card and lsten as well as read,
The battery seems to be fairly long lived and is rechargable from a USB connection( so I just plug it into my computer every week or so) as well as having a dedicated mains adapter


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 07:43 AM

I'm with Uncle Dave and other pro-book people.   I do recognize there are good reasons to use a Kindle.

But in great part it depends on your goal in reading.   Mine is primarily learning--overwhelmingly about history--as well as biographies.   I read virtually no fiction--the last one I read was the first Harry Potter, since I was just about to see the movie with part of my extended family, and I wanted to know how faithful the movie was to the book.   (In fact, the movie did an excellent job).

When I buy a book, I will always potentially use it as a resource--for ever.   I write in the margins, take notes in front of the book, etc.   I intend to remember as much as possible.   

Matter of taste, of course, but I find history absolutely endlessly fascinating--and wonderfully entertaining. I'm not even tempted to read fiction--though there is list of Dickens, Russian writers, Hemingway etc, I intend to read--"someday".

I also have enough gadgets in my life, and don't really need this one (a Kindle).   Nor can I justify the price.

And I already have a whole huge pile of books I haven't yet read--since when I hear about another book on a corner of history I don't know much about, I have no willpower to stop myself from searching it out and buying it--for a good price.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: number 6
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:24 AM

Dick Greenhaus ... surprisingly the sound quality of an iPod is quite exceptional (if used with a good set of ear phones).

biLL (with apologies about this thread drift)


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:42 AM

I think they have their place and would come in handy if you are travelling as books tend to add excess weight if you want to take more than one or two. I remember going away with some friends ( I think Lady P was there, she was suprised at the amount of books I had....about 6)and my bag was SO heavy from all my stuff AND the books. My only concern with the e book is the screen and how it would affect my eyesight, would it give headaches like sitting at a computer screen for too long? Would I have one?...probably, but I like the 'feel' of a real book


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 11:12 AM

One good thing....Silverfish and bookworms and mold won't sneak in and eat a Kindle, as they have books that are not accessed regularly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 01:36 PM

I almost alway buy books when traveling. Of course, I need something to read on the road, too. So a Kindle (or similar) would save weight going for those things I buy during. Hmmmmmmmm....

As I've said, a place and time for everything (even scrolls, which are still used today).


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 02:54 PM

One of the things about Star Trek TNG that I always liked was that every now and again there'd be a scene where reading and holding a real book was seen as important - and it used to strike me that this was one bit where they were probably spot-on right about the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Zhenya
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 02:48 AM

Catherine Jayne,

The Kindle (and I think the Sony eReader as well) uses something called eInk. It feels different from looking at a computer screen, and is very comfortable on the eyes for lengthy reading.

The Kindle, by the way, does not have any built in light. For use in low light situations, you need to use a booklight as you would with a paper book. I believe the SONY eReader does have some kind of lighting, but I could be wrong on that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Micca
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:58 AM

Zhenya, The Sony has a seperate rather innovative lighting attachment that seems to work well without getting in the way or increasing the bulkiness of the eBook Look here for info I have not field tested yet it but I can see it being very useful in situations like on an aircraft as it is not as distracting and instrusive as using an overhead light. BTW it is real easy to upload songs from the DT for use when learning new stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 07:51 AM

I love finding old books, like an 1864 Greek dictionary or an account of the early battles of the American Civil War by William Howard Russell*, the Times reporter who exposed the mismanagement of the Crimean War a few years earlier. Both of them are broken, ragged, imperfect, but perfectly readable. A floppy disk or data tape from 25 years ago is now unreadable by anybody but a specialist in data recovery.

* He got the wrong side of the Federal authorities and was frozen out of access to information. He had made the mistake of telling the facts as he saw them, rather than the official success story. If anyone wants the book, they are welcome to it if they pick it up or pay the postage. It's not even mentioned in the Wikipedia article about him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Michael S
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 10:14 AM

You know, using a Kindle sometimes need never interfere with anyone's love of actual books, new or old.

I'm just saying.

-Michael Scully


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:51 AM

I can't afford it. Got to replace storage heater (with 2 dual control storage heaters) sofa, and car, pay for my daughter's visit here at Christmas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 02:03 PM

I see that Amazon now has a free Kindle for PC program, for those of us who don't want to spend money on the electronic book apparatus. Seems like this would be a good way to read a book on a laptop or netbook.

Being not completely of sound mind and body, I have a hard time remembering stuff I've read before, particularly characters in novels. I spend lots of time looking back through pages I've read, trying to figure out who this or that character is. Oftentimes, I'll write an index of characters in the inside cover of as book as I encounter them. With an e-book, I could easily search for the place where that character first appeared.

Right now, I take the Digital Tradition on my laptop, and explore songs as I travel.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 02:33 PM

Just read in the Guardian that downloads will cost UK and European users 40% more than American users. One reason Amazon gave is that printed books cost less than they do in the Europe and UK, because they are cheaper to produce. I don't understand. Digital data is not printed publication.

Then there was a suggestion that it had to do with Amazon's inability to come to terms with mobile phone companies in UK and Europe and that having to download from AT&T at roaming charge was the reason. Then there was a bit about VAT in the UK.

One WHICH magazine editor views the 40% as little more than stealth tax. whatever that means.

Well, looks like I won't be getting a Kindle this Christmas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 02:47 PM

I love reading scores of fine old novels on my iPhone when I am not busy with something.

I see no need for a dedicated reader--they come through clearly and conveniently.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 03:09 PM

Be forewarned...Amazon requires Kindle for PC to be 'registered' in order to download titles....which means giving Amazon your email and address & phone #. They DO have some free titles, which is what I was wondering....but many of the free titles are also available thru Project Gutenberg, etc. and thus read with the application I mentioned above, which, for the PC, actually has more features than the "Kindle for PC".


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 03:22 PM

I was interested in Kindle, because arthritis in my hands and wrists prevent me holding heavy books for any length of time. Also on Kindle I can adjust the text size, a boon to one with failing vision.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 03:35 PM

That makes perfect sense, VT. I also have 'some' vision problems and in Tom's EText reader, I can also choose font, as well as text size. I often use something called Palatino Linotype to read on the computer. (I...ummm...only have a few thousand other fonts to choose from...)

(I am playing with Kindle for PC, and it is ok, but since I am at home most of the time, the extra portability of a Kindle is not a big deal. I have a small laptop and Tom's reader, and more free books thru Project Gutenberg than I will ever have time for.

It's good to have many options available for people's different needs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:23 PM

The only thing I can imagine doing with a device like that is for displaying sheet music (I have much more of a clutter problem with printed music than I do with books).

For which it would need to be A3-sized, and that isn't going to happen for years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:39 PM

My eyesight was poor (80s) but new lenses installed on the old eyeballs about 3 years ago, and back to better than 20-20. Free, here in Alberta.

I dislike reading a screen for any length of time, and the internet book sellers provide more than I could read in a few centuries, so no thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:31 PM

I don't think anyone has mentioned the fact that books can be deleted from your handy little Kindle without your permission. An example of that happening which made the papers, at least in the UK, was when Kindle users found that Amazon had deleted their copies of books by George Orwell, on some obscure copyright grounds. And no, it wasn't because they ahd downloaded them illegally or anything like that. They'd bought them and paid for them.

Read about it here, before shelling out for a Kindle for Christmas - Kindle readers beware - big Amazon is watching you read 1984


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 08:13 PM

Nearly all George Orwell books can be bought from book dealers for $1.00 or so, and then one can give them away, toss them in the bin, etc. Easy and cheap.

The article linked by McGrath is not quite correct- Amazon did not properly check out Orwell book rights and thus had to delete them or face suit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:44 AM

Jack

I use a little eeepc netbook for my lyrics. There are lots of different netbooks available now, with long batter life. They are not so dear anymore and can do much more than hold music. Just a thought.

Not very good for book reading though as they get hot and still have some weight to them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 09:39 AM

I didn't mean lyrics, I meant musical notation. Small screens can only display simple tunes. Would you like to try sightreading from this on your eeepc screen?


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Becca72
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:23 AM

After reading this thread I can see the value of a Kindle but highly doubt I will ever own one. I like the "feel" of a real book too much. I own hundreds and love having them around. I always have a book with me because you never know when you're going to get stuck and need to occupy your time for a bit.
As for the "carbon footprint" of real books, I belong to paperbackswap.com and goodreads.com and can 'trade' books with people from all over.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:22 PM

The savings on current titles are small.
As a devourer of mysteries, this book, in paperback:
Donna Leon, "Death in a Strange Country"-
Kindle US$7.99
New from Amazon- $11.20
New from other dealers listed by Amazon- $7.89 or higher
Used- $7.00 from Amazon listed dealer
Used- $1.00 up, from Abebooks.com


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:58 PM

"The article linked by McGrath is not quite correct - Amazon did not properly check out Orwell book rights and thus had to delete them or face suit. "

How so? This is what the article said "The books – downloaded from Amazon.com by American Kindle users – were remotely deleted after what the US company now says was a rights issue regarding the publisher"

The point is, Kindle gives them the ability to do something that no ordinary bookseller could do. They are able to remove book from your shelves without your permission. Legalised burglary.

Think of the power this kind of ability would give to a government in some future where printed paper had been replaced by the likes of Kindle, probably for newspapers and magazines as well as books.

We talk about past tyrannies as "totalitarian", but they never had anything approaching the control over their citizens that is now within reaching grasp of governments a few years down the line.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:15 PM

Hi again Jack

Don't think the Kindle can accommodate graphics can it?

But a little net book can and you can increase the size on screen, though you would need someone to scroll down and side to side while you played, so still not very practical.

Hmmm! Looks like there may be a market for what you want though. A Kindle like machine only bigger say A4 size, that holds digital sheet music. Has a sensor to scroll to next page, maybe a foot pedal. If the music has a coda, then pedal needs a previous page function.

Whoa! Another brilliant idea that someone else will capitalise on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:21 PM

A Kindle like machine only bigger say A4 size, that holds digital sheet music. Has a sensor to scroll to next page, maybe a foot pedal. Sounds like an augmented piano...


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:43 PM

I'm with Q (not on the eyeball, but the screen). I personally find reading even a good seventeen inch monitor to be a chore after awhile, very tiring.

I don't like the name 'Kindle'; it puts me in mind of books as kindling ala Nazi Germany, or "Fahrenheit 451"


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:48 PM

You might think of it as being more like "in kindle", which is the traditional expression for pregnancy in a rabbit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:58 PM

I suggested the same thing as VirginiaTam on rec.arts.books a while ago, pedal and all. But it would have to be A3, at least - any substantial score opens that big when you're using it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 03:22 PM

Another contender: Barnes & Noble's "Nook" -- here's their comparison chart between Nook and Kindle click. Can't do Word documents, so not so good for those song lyrics, unless they're converted to pdf...

Both B&N and Sony got their publicity out before they had much product available, so both have delays on Christmas orders.

Here's an NY Times video - amusing, but without much depth - comparing the Kindle, Sony e-reader and Cool-ER: click.

Here's a much more comprehensive comparison chart -- with way more models than I realized were out there: click.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:59 PM

If Kindle takes back material that they sold to me which had a copyright they missed, or if there was another legal matter involved, they are welcome to do so, as long as they refund.
I see nothing wrong. They are correcting an error.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:27 PM

As I see it, if you sell something you don't have a right to sell, that's your problem. It doesn't give you the right to just walk in and take it away from the person you sold it to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:27 PM

I have a Sony Reader, and I love it. I am reading Gulliver's Travels at the moment, which I downloaded free. It's a book that bypassed me as a child, and it's fun catching up.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Gulliver
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 07:37 AM

I just noticed my name being mentioned in the preceding thread ;-)

I've been reading ebooks for over ten years. It started when I had to travel abroad on business, so I loaded lots of novels, short stories, documentaries, sound files, etc on my laptop for those trips. I got rid of about half my paper books (still have almost 2,000) and bought very few over the past few years. I've taken a small laptop on most of my travels (hence my moniker!) so whether in an Indonesian jungle, on a mountain-top in Japan, on an island off Italy, I've had lots of reading matter, including travelogues, dictionaries, photos, song lyrics, etc. I can also keep up my travel diaries and prepare emails. Luckily I have no problem reading from the screen, and particularly like it for reading in bed.

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: C-flat
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:51 AM

As both me and the current "Mrs flat" are avid readers, I can see the Kindle as a solution to packing books when we are travelling.
Not only that, I'm due to undergo surgery fairly soon and anticipate being laid up for a couple of months so, again, I think this might be just the thing!!
I love books, even the smell of them, but sometimes they can be a bit on the bulky side to hold for any length of time and a dozen or so in the bottom of a suitcase can use up a fair bit of your luggage allowance.
I think a few subtle hints to my other half and we'll see what Santa brings!


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: gnomad
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:52 AM

Re removing stuff already sold: no-one can pass on a better right to goods than they themselves hold. If Amazon are in breach of copyright in making the sale then you have no right to continue to hold the electronic goods sold. No more than you can keep stolen goods such as a bike, even if innocently purchased.

Nemo dat quod non habet, as the legal eagles will say.

Of course if such a sale took place and Amazon refused to refund the money when deletion happened a case for action would arise.

I also quite agree there is something sinister about the ability to amend or erase the goods post-sale. It might tempt some to immediately back up any possibly controversial works on a separate device inaccessible to Amazon. I don't know if the devices are set up to allow such backups, but I'll bet some hacker can make it possible if it hasn't been done already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Why read an electronic book/Kindle?
From: Green Man
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:26 AM

Lying in bed, finished my last Cussler novel, switched on 3g browsed to Kindle bookstore on Amazon bought another book started new story. Total time about 4 minutes. 50% CHEAPER than a paper book and I didnt have to pay for diesel or a bus fare to get to the shop. I can do the same from my caravan in the middle of a field and I dont have the storage problems that a lot of books would generate. I have a home with 8 book cases and several shelves full of professional books on I.T. and lots of music and photgraphic and art source files.

Kinlde is for reading and for that it is very good. The other books are visual aids to my job or the graphic arts and they are what they are.

Kindle is brilliant at what it does, it's a means to an end, it will never replace my big book of Tall ships or a Gutenberg Bible but it is convenient. Its especially nice with the leather cover with a built in light. So far battery life between charges is about three weeks.

Live long and prosper. :)


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