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New Penguin Book of English Folk Song

Related threads:
Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued (89)
Folklore: Penguin Books (14)
Mudcat Companion to the Penguin book? (20)
Penguin Book of English Folk Songs (36)
Index - Penguin Book of English Folksongs (17)


Richard Bridge 17 May 09 - 04:56 AM
The Borchester Echo 17 May 09 - 06:24 AM
Matthew Edwards 17 May 09 - 07:02 AM
Richard Bridge 17 May 09 - 04:07 PM
Richard Bridge 17 May 09 - 04:08 PM
johnadams 18 May 09 - 05:41 AM
Richard Bridge 18 May 09 - 06:03 AM
GUEST 18 May 09 - 06:10 AM
Richard Bridge 18 May 09 - 06:12 AM
matt milton 18 May 09 - 06:49 AM
johnadams 18 May 09 - 07:03 AM
Folkiedave 18 May 09 - 08:15 AM
Richard Bridge 18 May 09 - 08:29 AM
Phil Edwards 18 May 09 - 11:00 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 May 09 - 11:09 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 May 09 - 11:13 AM
Richard Bridge 18 May 09 - 11:26 AM
Joe Offer 18 May 09 - 11:37 AM
Phil Edwards 18 May 09 - 11:43 AM
Ed Pellow 18 May 09 - 03:11 PM
Richard Bridge 18 May 09 - 04:46 PM
Ross Campbell 19 Jan 12 - 03:10 PM
Pete Jennings 19 Jan 12 - 04:24 PM
Ross Campbell 19 Jan 12 - 06:26 PM
Desert Dancer 19 Jan 12 - 07:47 PM
Reinhard 19 Jan 12 - 10:45 PM
Brian Peters 20 Jan 12 - 04:27 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 20 Jan 12 - 06:16 AM
Brian Peters 20 Jan 12 - 06:28 AM
Desert Dancer 24 May 12 - 11:22 AM
Jack Campin 24 May 12 - 11:45 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 24 May 12 - 12:37 PM
Jim Carroll 24 May 12 - 01:21 PM
Steve Gardham 24 May 12 - 01:22 PM
Steve Gardham 24 May 12 - 01:36 PM
Big Al Whittle 24 May 12 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 24 May 12 - 01:46 PM
Steve Gardham 24 May 12 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,Brian Peters 24 May 12 - 07:37 PM
Surreysinger 24 May 12 - 08:26 PM
Big Al Whittle 24 May 12 - 09:22 PM
dick greenhaus 25 May 12 - 01:04 AM
Surreysinger 25 May 12 - 05:36 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 25 May 12 - 05:51 AM
Jack Campin 25 May 12 - 05:57 AM
Jim Carroll 25 May 12 - 06:24 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 May 12 - 06:28 AM
Jack Campin 25 May 12 - 06:43 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 25 May 12 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 25 May 12 - 06:53 AM
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Subject: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 May 09 - 04:56 AM

I think it was revised and republished in 2004.

It used to be available throught the EFDSS.

Does anyone know if it is still in print? I can't find it on the EFDSS site.

Secondly, is the Mudcat MIDI library of the tunes for all the songs in it still here somewhere?

Thirdly, is there any other good but not too exotic expensive and hard to find source book?

I should explain, I am present-hunting...


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 May 09 - 06:24 AM

Depends whether you mean The Classic Book Of English Folk Songs which was an update of the original RVW and AL Lloyd publication, which was edited and updated by Malcolm Douglas a few years ago, or the very recent one which Penguin suddenly decided to republish.

There was a thread on both a few months ago but I can't find it.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 17 May 09 - 07:02 AM

Derek Schofield did say on the thread Penguin (UK) reissue 'English Folk Songs that The Classic Book of English Folk Songs is due to be reprinted by the EFDSS. At the the time he still had a few copies available for sale. This is the edition worth getting, and worth waiting for as it contains some really valuable information about the songs and their singers researched by Malcolm Douglas.
The new Penguin issue in their 'English Journeys' series is simply a reprint of the original 1959 edition - it is a nice copy to own but the print is very small (to my elderly eyes!) and while the songs in it are just as good as they were 50 years ago the notes are seriously out of date.
If you are looking for other good song books the newly redesigned website at EDFSS has a wonderful choice on offer. 'Still Growing', 'Dear Companion', 'Traveller's Joy' (with CD), and 'Marrrow Bones' (revised by Malcolm Douglas and Steve Gardham) are all good buys.

Matthew Edwards


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 May 09 - 04:07 PM

It was teh Malcom Douglas updated one that I wanted. Although an updated Marrowbones would be nice too...


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 May 09 - 04:08 PM

PS - and the MIDIs of the tunes.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: johnadams
Date: 18 May 09 - 05:41 AM

I have a couple of copies available for sale. Anyone interested can PM me.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 May 09 - 06:03 AM

Cheque in post John.

And now - the MIDIs?


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 09 - 06:10 AM

All the MIDIS are linked from this thread


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 May 09 - 06:12 AM

Thank you Guest - I hadn't found it.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: matt milton
Date: 18 May 09 - 06:49 AM

worth mentioning though that the recent Penguin paperback reprint has the virtue of being only 4.99, probably even less on Amazon.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: johnadams
Date: 18 May 09 - 07:03 AM

But sadly without the virtue of Malcolm Douglas's wonderful annotations.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 May 09 - 08:15 AM

Whilst not particularly knocking Penguin and its reprint - it is unreliable as a source - although the authors said they had indicated what they had revised/altered/added to - they only did this in a few cases.

What is really needed is the "Malcolm Douglas" version - "Classical English Folk Songs" which gives chapter and verse.

Incidentally to produce a version which people can use for singing does require collation.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 May 09 - 08:29 AM

What would be REALLY nice (planning ahead) would be a version that didn't need dot reading - so one option would be for it to come with the MIDI's all on an included CD, and better still would be a version with a "preferred" vocal rendition of each song (or even two versions, one unaccompanied and one accompanied) on an included CD...


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:00 AM

What would be REALLY nice (planning ahead) would be a version that didn't need dot reading

ABC!


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:09 AM

What's really nice about ABC is that you can feed it into a cyber machine and so generate proper notation.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:13 AM

Or, of course, generate a MIDI. What I don't understand is how some people claim that sightreading ABC is easier than sightreading real notation when the stave shows you how far to go up or down . . .


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:26 AM

Er... Wot?


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:37 AM

By the way, it was Ed Pellow who transcribed all the Penguin tunes to MIDI, almost ten years ago now. Alan Foster of Australia posted the background information and the lyrics, when we didn't have them already. Malcolm Douglas posted many of the preliminary notes from The Classic Book of English Folk Songs.
As stated above, the index to this information is in this thread.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:43 AM

This:

X: 1
T: My Bonnie, Bonnie Boy
C: 19th Century English, from Broadwood and Fuller Maitland, English County Songs, London and New York, 1893
M: 3/4
K: C
L: 1/4
E | F E D | dcd | A> B c/ A/ |
FE D/E/ | F F F/A/ | G/F/ E/F/ G |
A3-|A z E | F E D | d c d/B/ |
A>B c/ A/ | FE F/ G/ | A d c/B/ | A D E |
F/G/ A B/G/ | A2 (3A/B/c/ | d A/B/ c |
BA/G/ A | D3-|Dz||

To see how it works, go to Folkinfo ABC converter, copy everything from the "X:" to the final "||" into the big white box and press "Submit". If you're reading or writing tunes on a computer, ABC is an incredibly lightweight, portable format. I've got an ABC file containing four different versions of My Bonnie Boy; it's 8 KB.

For me, the advantage of ABC over dots is that I can't sing from dots, and I can barely sight-read with an instrument. So a single format which can generate both dots and MIDI - and which can be edited or transposed quickly and easily - is ideal for me. Plus the files are about 1% of the size of Noteworthy tune files, and they're plain text, so that you can tell by eye if anything's gone wrong.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 18 May 09 - 03:11 PM

By the way, it was Ed Pellow who transcribed all the Penguin tunes to MIDI, almost ten years ago now.

Blimey, I'm getting old! I still read Mudcat a fair bit but tend to post as GUEST (because I'm a stubborn cuss! Indeed I posted above to point Richard toward the index thread). It's nice to be acknowledged though so thanks for the post, Joe.

Cheers,

Ed


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 May 09 - 04:46 PM

Thank you.


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Subject: New New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 03:10 PM

Just came across this by accident:-

New Penguin Book of English Folk Songs - Steve Roud due for release 7th June 2012, £20

The synopsis says:-

"One of the great English popular art forms, the folk song can be painful, satirical, erotic, dramatic, rueful or funny.They have thrived when sung on a whim to a handful of friends in a pub; they have bewitched generations of English composers who have set them for everything from solo violin to full orchestra; they are sung in concerts, festivals, weddings, funerals and with nobody to hear but the singer.

This magical new collection brings together all the classic folk songs as well as many lesser-known discoveries, complete with music and annotations on their original sources and meaning. Published in cooperation with the English Folk Dance and Song Society, it is a worthy successor to Ralph Vaughan Williams and A.L.Lloyd's original Penguin Book of English Folk Songs."

Amazon(UK) have it on pre-order at £17 post free.

The Amazon listing also credits Julia Bishop as author as well as Steve Roud.

Ross


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:24 PM

The original version, second-hand only, is available on Amazon. A bit pricey these days, but worth it IMO.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 06:26 PM

English Folk Songs (English Journeys), Penguin, 2009 has exactly the same content as the 1959 edition of The Penguin Book of English Folk Songs, and is available from Amazon (UK) from £0.01 plus £2.80 postage. (Amazon offers ) Can't find any better bargain today!

Ross


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 07:47 PM

I look forward to more detail about it when someone gets it, like a list of songs...

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Reinhard
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 10:45 PM

The New Penguin Book will probably have a few more songs on its 496 pages vs. 126 pages of the old book.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Brian Peters
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 04:27 AM

So does anyone know whether it's a revamp of Lloyd / Williams / Douglas, or an entirely new collection?


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 06:16 AM

The Steve Roud Penguin book is a completely new collection of songs ... a second Penguin Book if you like.... David Atkinson and Julia Bishop have also been involved, as have EFDSS.

The Classic English Folk Songs (a new edition of the original 1959 Penguin Book, edited by Malcolm Douglas) is still available from EFDSS and elsewhere.

Penguin republished the original 1959 book as English Folk Songs (English Journeys) in 2009.

Hope that all clear now :-)

Derek


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Brian Peters
Date: 20 Jan 12 - 06:28 AM

Thanks Derek - no bugger tells me anything. Given the authors, the new Penguin is going to be a great book, but 'Classic English Folk Songs' is excellent too, especially for those of us who grew up on the original 'Penguin' and are curious about the provenance of songs about which Bert Lloyd was sometimes a little vague...


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 24 May 12 - 11:22 AM

EFDSS now has a page up about The New Penguin Book of English Folk Song, Edited by Steve Roud and Julia Bishop.

It links to a May 12 review in the Times, but that's not accessible for non-subscribers. The EFDSS page has an excerpt.

It also links to the Penguin page on the book. Interesting - they are making available as an e-book, as well.

And there will be a book launch event at C Sharp House on June 12. The event is free, but they recommend advance booking.

via EFDSS on Facebook -- the way we at a distance can be on top of the news... ;-)

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 May 12 - 11:45 AM

I was at a singaround a few days ago where somebody was using the original Penguin. Or rather, part of it - he couldn't read the musical notation and was mostly guessing the tunes from a very timeworn memory. (In principle, that might be a way to create interesting new tunes - didn't happen then, though).

Maybe there's a market for yet another edition...


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 24 May 12 - 12:37 PM

and the new issue of English Dance & Song magazine - in the post to members/subscribers this weekend/early next week - has an interview with Steve and Julia about the new book.
Derek


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 May 12 - 01:21 PM

Pre-publishing copy now available from The Book Depository postage-free to anywhere, at €24 - whatever that is, translated into old money (%24 off).
Just put my order in.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 May 12 - 01:22 PM

151 songs plus extensive notes on each. For most of the songs probably the last word, and where not Steve recommends further research. What is very rare in British anthologies is Julia's well researched comments on the tunes. Nearly all researchers and anthologists are text-bound like me. The only thing it lacks is a list of contents song by song, but there is an integrated index of first lines and titles.

Sorry, Becky, but I haven't got time to type out all 151 titles. If you're looking for a particulkar song or two, I could easily check for you. Generally they are mostly unpublished versions of really well known songs, in fact the selection was based on the most frequently collected 151 trad songs in England.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 May 12 - 01:36 PM

I might add, amazingly cheap at those prices quoted above, when you consider the research, the number of songs and it's a hbk.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 May 12 - 01:45 PM

It was hardly a hot number. I bought one for a quid in a remaindered bookshop in Matlock - you know the sort that flogs editions of Dickens for a quid,

I remember i bought an edition of Swinburne on the same occasion. Must get round to opening those books one day.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 24 May 12 - 01:46 PM

Another scoop from Amazon . They will be selling the book at £16.25 inc p/p. It can be ordered now, for delivery from 7th June.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 May 12 - 05:58 PM

Wow, Fred, that's amazing! It's not a particularly expensive binding but a hardback nevertheless with 542 pages. That's about the same price as the slim paperbacks EFDSS are publishing. How have they done it?


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 24 May 12 - 07:37 PM

Er, by insisting the publisher grants them a massive discount??


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Surreysinger
Date: 24 May 12 - 08:26 PM

I ordered mine from Amazon on 21 January ... and I see that it's due for despatch on 8th June .... can't wait! :-)


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 May 12 - 09:22 PM

Perhaps you'd be best waiting til the new edition appears in the remaindered shops.

I think they do make too many copies of a lot of books. Amazon is amazing - after a year sometimes you can get a book thats cost £20 for a penny, plus about three quid postage.

I can't work it out at all.

You can get a nearly new copy of the Gordon Bowker book about James Joyce tonite (lousy reviews - so I didn't get it) on Amazon for £4.17 - before Christmas it was over twenty five in Waterstones. Not even six months - so I'd be reluctant to part with my shekels by pre-ordering anything.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 May 12 - 01:04 AM

Most book resellers get a 40% diacount---nice, but not enough to get rich on. Amazon demands 50%.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Surreysinger
Date: 25 May 12 - 05:36 AM

As to waiting till it gets remaindered - always a dangerous prospect in case it doesn't. (I can think of several folk orientated books that are still selling at the full original price two or three years after publication). And anyway, who wants to wait to get their hands on a new supply of songs? Not me! I was recently reading a hardback biography with folk interest ... 164 pages of content for £50. £16.95 is ,as was pointed out, a very reasonable price indeed for a hardback of somewhat academic content of this size.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 25 May 12 - 05:51 AM

Steve G. "......with 542 pages. That's about the same price as the slim paperbacks EFDSS are publishing. How have they done it?"

Probably by buying in bulk. I've had some amazing discounts with Amazon, including the Blind Willie McTell biography and the Alan Lomax biography.

BTW., Amazon and EFDSS are both quoting 608 pages. Not that it matters overmuch. 542 or 608, it's going to be a massive must have, and doubtless edited to Roud and Bishop's usual rigorous standards.

Nice to see, BTW., that it's a completely new selection and doesn't incoporate any of the songs from the original PBEFS. So it hasn't rendered the earlier publication in any way redundant. That's especially great because there's no way I could have brought myself to part with it after all these years.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 May 12 - 05:57 AM

Amazon also pays their workers the lowest wages they can get away with and treat them like concentration camp prisoners. I have never bought anything from them and have no intention of ever doing so.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 May 12 - 06:24 AM

Would still strongly recommend The Book Depository - a company based in the North of England, wide range of stock, reasonable discounts on all books, helpful (and most important of all) contactable staff, and free postage to any part of the world.
Not as cheap as Amazon in this case, but I'm with Jack C on this - Amazon is a soulless giant with a robot mentality.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 May 12 - 06:28 AM

'like concentration camp prisoners'

how do you mean? I buy lots of stuff off Amazon, But I won't if that's true.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 May 12 - 06:43 AM

I'll look for the details tonight- two stories broke in the same week a few months ago, one about workers being locked into a warehouse in New Jersey with inadequate ventilation in blazing summer heat, and another one from Scotland where delivery drivers were locked in windowless sheds with their vehicles with no means of escape in the event of fire.

The firm was a no-unions-allowed shop from the very start, so this was entirely predictable.


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 25 May 12 - 06:49 AM

Didn't I read recently that The Book Depository is owned by .... Amazon?

We all want to get a good deal when we buy anything ... the important thing with this new book is to buy it - wherever we buy it from - and support Penguin's initiative. Same with the Bert biography....

I must admit to being in 2 minds about buying from Amazon ... on the one hand, books and CDs are cheaper, on the other hand, they are screwing the publishers and don't pay (enough) tax....

Derek


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Subject: RE: New Penguin Book of English Folk Song
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 25 May 12 - 06:53 AM

Jack. I've heard rumours of Amazon's culpability before, but nothing concrete. So if you can supply the details that would be excellent. I too buy a lot of stuff from Amazon. But if the facts are as stated, then they've had the last order they'll ever get from me.


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