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BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?

Sawzaw 07 Mar 09 - 03:26 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Mar 09 - 03:41 PM
number 6 06 Mar 09 - 02:08 PM
number 6 02 Mar 09 - 03:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Mar 09 - 03:47 PM
Amos 02 Mar 09 - 03:35 PM
Sawzaw 02 Mar 09 - 02:54 PM
Lonesome EJ 02 Mar 09 - 11:40 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 02 Mar 09 - 11:24 AM
Greg F. 02 Mar 09 - 09:59 AM
Riginslinger 02 Mar 09 - 06:45 AM
Sawzaw 02 Mar 09 - 01:57 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Mar 09 - 11:01 PM
Riginslinger 01 Mar 09 - 10:42 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Mar 09 - 10:20 PM
Sawzaw 01 Mar 09 - 09:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Mar 09 - 09:19 PM
kendall 01 Mar 09 - 08:54 PM
Ebbie 01 Mar 09 - 03:10 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Mar 09 - 03:00 PM
Sawzaw 01 Mar 09 - 02:23 PM
Riginslinger 28 Feb 09 - 09:11 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 28 Feb 09 - 03:12 PM
number 6 28 Feb 09 - 01:48 PM
Riginslinger 28 Feb 09 - 12:15 PM
number 6 28 Feb 09 - 11:52 AM
number 6 28 Feb 09 - 11:39 AM
pdq 28 Feb 09 - 11:35 AM
number 6 28 Feb 09 - 11:24 AM
pdq 28 Feb 09 - 10:40 AM
Riginslinger 28 Feb 09 - 10:03 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Feb 09 - 01:23 PM
Musket 27 Feb 09 - 07:22 AM
CamiSu 27 Feb 09 - 12:48 AM
Amos 26 Feb 09 - 11:25 PM
Riginslinger 26 Feb 09 - 11:00 PM
number 6 26 Feb 09 - 10:53 PM
Riginslinger 26 Feb 09 - 10:34 PM
number 6 26 Feb 09 - 09:02 PM
pdq 26 Feb 09 - 08:54 PM
number 6 26 Feb 09 - 08:19 PM
JohnInKansas 26 Feb 09 - 07:51 PM
number 6 26 Feb 09 - 07:40 PM
Riginslinger 26 Feb 09 - 07:37 PM
number 6 26 Feb 09 - 07:20 PM
GUEST,lox 26 Feb 09 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,lox 26 Feb 09 - 06:08 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 26 Feb 09 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,lox 26 Feb 09 - 06:00 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 26 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 03:26 PM

And there was thunder, thunder over Thunder Road
Thunder was his engine, and white lightning was his load
There was moonshine, moonshine to quench the Devil’s thirst
The law they swore they'd get him, but the Devil got him first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 03:41 PM

Saw a diagram of one of the drug cartel's submarines. Very ingenious.

Ciudad Juarez was a favorite place with my parents back before WW2, when it was a quiet little city that boasted fine restaurants and good shopping for fine hand-made leather goods (shoes, boots, purses and horse gear) and lower prices on liquor.
As a child, I loved the hard brown sugar cones, and little wooden boxes with a soft, caramel-like candy inside. A tiny wooden spoon was attached to the box. We made the drive to El Paso-Juarez 3-4 times a year, and I always waited anxiously for these trips.

It was a different world. I remember a truck coming by a bank near a restaurant where we were eating breakfast one morning, and dropping off a large cloth bag full of coins. No one bothered it.
A Mexican official my father knew was very proud of the new jail in his charge. It was for Mexicans only, drunken gringos were put in the old jail overnight with the rats and accumulated filth. I remember the brouhaha when a high school football team, playing in El Paso, crossed the border and became rowdy and destructive- some of them were put in that hell hole overnight. A lesson I doubt they ever forgot. Different days!

Neither the Mexicans living there at that time, or the many visitors, would have forecast the current troubles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 02:08 PM

This is interesting ...

Mexico pours troops into Ciudad Juarez

Hopefully this will help somewhat. Problem is, when there is a demand for a prodcut, there will be a way to supply the demand. Big $dollars$ always pull ahead in the long run.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:51 PM

"I done two tours of duty in Vietnam
And I came home with a brand new plan
I take the seed from Colombia and Mexico
I plant it up the holler down Copperhead Road
Well the D.E.A.'s got a chopper in the air
I wake up screaming like I'm back over there
I learned a thing or two from ol' Charlie don't you know
You better stay away from Copperhead Road"


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:47 PM

During prohibition, a famous judge in New Mexico, originally from Kentucky, was a connaisseur of the squeezin's. When a still operator was brought before him, the important question was the quality. Producers of poor or contaminated offerings were hit with the full force of the law; if the product was pure, a technicality was invoked or the lightest possible sentence if that couldn't be avoided.
There have always been good and bad moonshiners, a good one is still respected in many parts of the conservative south and southwest.

The long clip by Sawzaw mostly at the moonshine joints that sell illicit liquor as places where guns and drugs are also dealt.

I won't do cut and paste, and I never read it fully out of principle, but a good excerpt from "Pigs Don't Fly" is:
"The Baptists and the Bootleggers," Dec. 2007
http://www/indiauncut.com/iublog/article/the-baptists-and-the-bootleggers/


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 03:35 PM

Get you a copper kettle,
And get you a copper coil,
Cover with new made corn-mash
And never more you'll toil....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 02:54 PM

Has moralizing crime ever worked?

And I ask again, what are the drug dealers going to do when drugs are legalized?

Right now, 75 years after the repeal, G men are still pursuing bootleggers in rural parts of America.

A lot of the good ol' Mountain Dew they produce is toxic with things such as lead and antifreeze from auto radiators used to condense the stuff.

Just good ol' boys
never meanin' no harm
beats all you never saw
been in trouble with the law
since the day they was born.

90's Moonshiners Add Drugs and Guns to the Recipe New York Times
      At the first sound of baying watchdogs, Jay Calhoun, a special agent of the Virginia Alcohol Beverage Control Commission Liquor Task Force, crouched in a thicket of mountain laurel and waited. In camouflage, Mr. Calhoun and two other agents remained motionless, their eyes focused on a corrugated-steel building less than 50 yards away through the trees, where they believed moonshine was being manufactured. As soon as the dogs lost interest, Mr. Calhoun said, "Let's go, the jig's up." The agents were on their feet, moving toward the building, a still house, as it is called. They arrived just in time to capture one suspect who was trying to escape through the woods and another who was trying to flee in a pickup. With their hands in their pockets, the suspects watched as the agents used axes to break up the stills, four 800-gallon fermenting tanks, or black pots, that resemble home heating-oil tanks.
      Moonshining, which endures in numerous Southern rural towns, is not as widespread as it was during Prohibition. But law-enforcement officials say the illegal manufacture and sale of whisky remains a multimillion-dollar business, with ties to gun trafficking, drugs and markets as far north as New York. "I would say that 60 percent of the moonshine being produced here is headed for Philadelphia, D.C. and other cities up north," said Jimmy Beheler, assistant special agent in charge of the state's five-member liquor task force, the lone squad in the country dedicated solely to combating moonshiners. Mr. Beheler estimated that each year 500,000 gallons of moonshine are distilled in Virginia, much of it here in Franklin County, widely considered the moonshine capital of the South, about an hour south of Roanoke, in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. With a street value of $25 or more a gallon for moonshine, the industry in Virginia is a $12.5 million enterprise. "There's still a big demand out there for it, or else moonshiners wouldn't be making hundreds of gallons a week," said Randy Knight, deputy director for operations at the Alcohol Law Enforcement division of the North Carolina Department of Crime Control and Public Safety. Last year, North Carolina officials seized almost 7,000 gallons of moonshine and destroyed almost 60,000 gallons of mash, a syrupy fermented concoction of sugar or corn, water, yeast and grain that moonshiners distill into whisky.
      Some modern moonshiners have built air-conditioned stills outfitted with electric pumps and other gadgets. But the process is not so different from the distilling that Scottish-Irish immigrants introduced to this region in the early 1700's. Steam from a near-boiling vat of mash is drawn off and condensed into a liquid through a coil of three-inch copper tubing called a worm, or sometimes through an old car radiator submerged in cold water. An 800-gallon tank of mash produces around 100 gallons of moonshine. The harsh 80- to 90-proof clear liquor, also called white lightning, is similar in flavor to low-grade tequila. Because moonshining is unregulated, rust from radiators or lead from soldered pipes can contaminate the liquor. Stills are usually run by hired help called still hands, who are paid $100 a run, or batch, which takes six to eight hours to produce. "For a lot of these people, this is all they've ever done," said Chet Bryant, director of the Alcohol and Tobacco Division of Georgia. "It's a way of life and a way of making money."
      Agents in Georgia said they seize about 15 stills a year. The stills are often owned by investors who cover the costs of the operation, which including ingredients and distilling, run about $1,200 a pot. The pots are typically sheet metal wrapped around a wood frame. Added to those expenses are transportation costs. According to the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, moonshine makes its way to metropolitan markets in Southern and Northern cities hidden in trucks or campers. Bootleggers pay moonshiners $35 to $100 for a six-gallon case. The bootleggers, in turn, sell the whisky to the operators of "shot houses," unlicensed after-hours bars where customers can also buy drugs and firearms, law officials say. "As far as we've determined, these kinds of establishments are probably the main consumer of illicit alcohol," said Charles Thomson, special agent in charge of the Washington Field Division of the A.T.F. The possession of illegal spirits is a misdemeanor here, and possession of or operating a still is a felony. The crime of moonshining is basically one of tax evasion, and moonshiners and Government agents have been at odds since the days of Washington and Jefferson, both of whom owned stills.
      To help pay Revolutionary War debts, the new Federal Government imposed the first tax on whisky in March 1791, leading to the Whisky Rebellion. In 1862, the Government established the Office of Internal Revenue to collect taxes on spirits and empowered agents, known to moonshiners as revenuers, to arrest those who tried to evade the 20-cent-a-gallon tax. Today the Federal tax is about $20, and state taxes are usually less than $5. "It can all add up to a fairly large tax loss," said David Wilson, chief of enforcement in the Mississippi Division of Alcohol Beverage Control. Mr. Wilson calculated that the Federal and Mississippi governments had lost almost $1 billion in revenue over 30 years just from illegal operations in Mississippi.
      Today's operators are a far cry from the old-time moonshiner who kept a 20-gallon copper still behind the henhouse and a jug on the shelf. "The majority of the moonshiners we deal with today are felons who've been convicted of everything from drug selling to murder and manslaughter," Mr. Beheler said. Yet, in other ways, moonshiners, who still hide in remote mountain hollows, are every bit as crafty as in the days of the Prohibition. 'They know all the tricks," said Bev Whitmer, an alcohol agent here who is a former police officer, "such as doubling back or having other cars as lookouts. In terms of surveillance, they're definitely more skilled at eluding capture than any drug dealers I ever dealt with."


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 11:40 AM

Legalize drugs. Legislating morality has never worked.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 11:24 AM

I `ad that bricklayer Santiaga Meza Lopez in my cab the other day. `e `ad shed loads of bottles of acid with `im.
I said, "Watcha gonna do with that lot then? You`re normally making walls for adobe haciendas or something"
`e said, " `ere Jim, take my down to Rosie`s Cantina would you please. I`m gonna do them some soup."
I said, "Blimey, that might be a bit on the sharp side. What sort of soup you gonna do then?"
`e said, "That depends on `ow many scumbo pushers are around!!"

Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 09:59 AM

If they cannot make large amounts of money dealing drugs they will find some other criminal activity to enrich themselves with ...

Following Bernie Madoff, Blackwater, AIG, or Peabody Coal, perhaps?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 06:45 AM

The need to turn their efforts into rooting out the real opiate of the people, religion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Mar 09 - 01:57 AM

" No, they went into drug dealing. It was the business opportunity the government left open to them. And the G-men who were chasing them, the government didn't want to lay them off in the middle of a depression, so they made drug enforcement officers out of them. Otherwise, they would have simpy made drugs legal then."

Creative history at work.

They went into illegal gambling, loansharking, labor racketeering, hijacking trucks, protection.

What does his Majesty Mr Chavez and his Excellency, Fidel think about drugs?

They are such great, benevolent shepherds of their common folk in a workers paradise. So down on the rich evil minions of capitalism. Surely they would not deny their loyal subjects the simple pleasures of some dope every so often would they?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 11:01 PM

The military also got into the act, and asked that marijuana be prohibited.
The American Medical Assn. objected to the passage of the Marijuana Tax Act in 1937, which prohibited hemp farming.

In 1992, 330,000 arrests for cannabis possession. Dunno current figures.

I saw figures that marijuana was a major crop in some states and provinces; it grows well in much of North America. Here in Calgary, it is grown commercially under lights. Lots of busts, but the growers (who have rented the house) just disappear, a paid tender arrested.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 10:42 PM

"That is true but when prohibition was repealed, did the gangsters who did the bootlegging and murdering go legit,..."


               No, they went into drug dealing. It was the business opportunity the government left open to them. And the G-men who were chasing them, the government didn't want to lay them off in the middle of a depression, so they made drug enforcement officers out of them. Otherwise, they would have simpy made drugs legal then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 10:20 PM

Many of them went into the labor unions.
(Common belief, but I am unable to quote statistics)

Most bootleggers I knew, in the dry days in Oklahoma, were good church-going citizens, who performed a service appreciated by all who liked their dram. I had one as a next-door neighbor.

A childhood memory, from the Prohibition 1930s before repeal, I remember them delivering Canadian goodies (this was in New Mexico, a long way from the border). Hell, the Elks Club would have been dead without their regular deliveries. Canadian Club was the big seller. At home, a dead Victrola (horn behind the gauze removed) was the storage cabinet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 09:52 PM

"Prohibition of liquor was a failure"

That is true but when prohibition was repealed, did the gangsters who did the bootlegging and murdering go legit, operate breweries and distilleries and start teaching Sunday school?

Try some drug free logic for a change.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 09:19 PM

That also can be read as meaning the people who buy the drugs. If the demand is there, law enforcement can only harrass, never shutting it down.

An unimportant example of this is the market for Cuban cigars. I had no trouble getting them on assignments in the States. (They are, of course, legal in Canada).
I quit smoking years ago, so this is one expense I no longer have. The conduit I remember was from Cuba to Venezuela or Mexico, then to offshore oil rigs owned by U. S. companies and they by helicopter or supply boat to the mainland.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: kendall
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 08:54 PM

When I attended the U.S. Treasury Dept. school of law enforcement and criminal investigation one of the things the instructor was very firm on was, "Organized crime can not exist where it is not wanted." It was a thinly veiled comment about crooked officials.

As long as the cops are as crooked as the drug dealers there will be violence, and drugs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 03:10 PM

I don't do illegal drugs although I do have my drugs of choice: coffee, music, food.

I think that legalizing at least some drugs and near-drugs deserves a serious look.

Marijuana, for instance. It would be hard to make a case for it being a menace to society. Smoke a toke and you're not going home to beat your wife and babies; the same cannot generally be said of alcohol.

And yet, alcohol is legal; regulated and heavily taxed, true, but it is still a killer that is accepted by law and in society.

Chasing the will-o-wisps of drug trafficking has not been shown to be a great success, because there is no way the law can catch up, much less keep up, with the Medusa of drug users.

Take away one of the legs of the stool and see what happens. That's all I'm sayin'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 03:00 PM

Sawzaw is confusing the issue as usual.

Burglary, etc. are contrary to the codes (ten commandments, etc.) that people follow in order to live together.

Prohibition of liquor was a failure, drug prohibition also is a failure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 02:23 PM

I keep hearing "legalize drugs" and the drug dealers will cease to exist.

They are criminals that are currently engaged in selling illegal drugs because it is very profitable.

If they cannot make large amounts of money dealing drugs they will find some other criminal activity to enrich themselves with like theft, kidnapping etc.

Then what? Legalize burglary? Legalize kidnapping?

Criminal activity must be dealt with by the law, not by the false logic of legalizing crime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 09:11 PM

That's got to be the stupidest part of it, Q. At least in my opinion. The American tax payer forks over millions and millions of dollars a year to keep drug users locked up, when they aren't a threat to anyone else, and with treatment could be doing something constructive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 03:12 PM

In Calgary, drug shootouts have killed at least one bystander; I haven't checked into the number of drug gang members killed. These dealers are citizens of Canada, not Mexican; many are Asian in origin. The same thing is happening in most cities across the U. S. and Canada; home-grown gangs and citizens, not illegals. Nothing on the scale of Mexico, but appalling just the same.

Increasing amounts of drugs are made in dangerous labs in homes and business tracts.

Our drug laws are designed to make drug suppliers rich and continue the carnage. Legalizing, followed by setting up effective treatment and education centers, would be a first, important step.

Effective treatment of addicts in a joke in many areas, where incarceration in prison is the main prescription.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 01:48 PM

I agree with ya all the way Rig.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 12:15 PM

I suspect you're right, number 6, but there is a way to stop the violence. All you have to do is legalize drugs. We don't have people running around in Pierce-Arrows shooting at each other with Thompsons in Chicago any more, sice we lifted prohibition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:52 AM

"I wonder, how long will it be before the drug wars spill over into these areas"

In regards to that question Rig ... wherever there are large populations of gringos with money to spend on hedonistic pleasures there will be drug wars for distribution rights.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:39 AM

No it aint pretty pdq ... this whole drug business f@*k fest brings to mind the movie "No Country for Old Men".

Nothing can stop it. Just way too much money feeding human's lust for greed.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: pdq
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:35 AM

To be fair, the problems on the US border with Mexico are not new. I was there in parts of Arizona and Texas many years ago and saw things "first hand". Ain't pretty.

It isn't limited to the border anymore. The police chief of Union City, California, was assasinated by Mexican street gang thugs. That is a middle class town in the SF Bay Area, probably 500 miles north of Tijuana.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 11:24 AM

Whew ... scarry stuff pdq ... sounds like Vancouver, L.A., New Orleans Montreal (a few years ago when the Rock Machine bike club controlled the city).

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: pdq
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 10:40 AM

Drug Gangs Drive off Cops, Terrorize Mexican Town


Since police quit, Mexican town defenseless against the terror of drug gangs


By JULIE WATSON Associated Press Writer

VILLA AHUMADA, Mexico February 17, 2009 (AP) The Associated Press

"For people caught inside Mexico's drug corridors, life is about keeping your head down and watching your back, especially when the sun dips behind the cactus-studded horizon.

No town knows this better than Villa Ahumada, where the entire police force quit after 70 cartel hit men roared through last spring, killing the police chief, two officers and three townspeople.

Residents were left defenseless again last week when gunmen returned and kidnapped nine people, despite the soldiers manning checkpoints far outside town.

"This was a mellow town where we would walk along main street at night. But now we're too scared to even go out," said Zaida de Santiago.

For this lanky 14-year-old, everything changed last May 17. She was dancing at a neighbor's ranch when gunfire shattered the night. The party's hosts turned off the lights and silenced the music. The guests stood frozen, ears trained to the sound of automatic weapons as the gunmen raced down gravel streets in their SUVs.

When the sun rose hours later, the party guests learned that armed cartel commandos had killed the police chief and five others. Soon after, the rest of the 20-member force quit in fear.

"That day will always remain burned in my mind," Santiago said.

Federal investigators say Villa Ahumada is a key stop along one of Mexico's busiest drug smuggling routes, where the Sinaloa cartel has been challenging the Juarez gang for control. The military staffs checkpoints miles outside town, and soldiers and federal police roll through each day, but residents are largely left on their own.

Sliced by a railroad and the Pan-American Highway heading straight to the U.S. border, the town is one of many outposts across Mexico — many of them too small to appear on maps — that cartels need to dominate in order to ensure passage of their U.S.-bound loads of marijuana and cocaine. The town of 15,000 is about 80 miles south of El Paso, Texas..."

             more here


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 10:03 AM

"There is nothing insane about it--thousands of Americans around Gudalajara, Medina, Veracruz own houses and live..."

                I wonder, how long will it be before the drug wars spill over into these areas?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Feb 09 - 01:23 PM

Gun emporia in the four border states are the major suppliers of guns to the Mexican gangs. There are more than 6600 dealers, too many to police properly.
See NY Times editorial, "The Drug Cartels' Right to Bear Arms," Feb 27, 2009.
http://nytimes.com/2009/02/27/opinion/27fri3.html?_r=1&th&emc=th

Art. 27 of the Mexican Constitution sets out the regulations on land ownership and leasing to foreigners. One provision is that the Mexican States can vary the rules; see post by Amos, above.
Leases originally were for 30 years, now extended to 50, and renewable. As Amos says financial stability is necessary, and a trust established with a Mexican financial institution.
In addition to sites mentioned by Amos, the old silver towns are popular with foreigners because of the fine climate at a few thousand feet in altitude. As well as Americans, many UK and EU citizens have settled in Mexico.

Years ago, Vera Cruz was very popular with tourists before the west coast got the publicity and the big tourist hotels. A fine old city, and cheaper now than the west coast for expatriates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Musket
Date: 27 Feb 09 - 07:22 AM

"The radio said, they're just deportees"

Woody Guthrie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: CamiSu
Date: 27 Feb 09 - 12:48 AM

I'm not always certain we notice dead anybodies! I still wince when I hear x number of people were killed and y Americans... They are all PEOPLE! And, yes we are sending the guns down there and so many could be stopped at the border, if the crossing police checked the cars going south, (with small #'s of guns to avoid detection,) AND if dealers would not sell to people who are ignorant of what they are buying and pay in cash--2 major tip-offs that people are buying for the cartels and gangs. We should particularly notice the dead when we are primarily responsible for the situation that causes the deaths.

CamiSu


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Amos
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 11:25 PM

You can buy land in Jalisco. It is well removed from the coastline. There are restrictions on ownership of coastal land. In addition the stable income is a qualification for a residential visa, which allows you to live in Mexico indefinitely and also work there, I believe. There is nothing insane about it--thousands of Americans around Gudalajara, Medina, Veracruz own houses and live on their Social Security or retirement savings in better style than they possibly could stateside. But there are many ins and outs to learn about the lifestyle. I met plenty of Americans who had managed them successfully int he year I lived outside of Guadalajara.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 11:00 PM

Frankly, I don't think many of us do!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 10:53 PM

Like the in the U.S. and Canada not all the streets are dangerous to walk through ... and like many towns in the U.S.and Canada they are populated by fine human beings .... below is a link to prove it

3 amogos

Yes ... we should notice dead Mexicans

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 10:34 PM

biLL - Yes, you're right that we don't pay attention to people decimated by American culture. Why, I wonder?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 09:02 PM

Not 100 .... it's 50.

"Buy land in Mexico? Get your head examined."

Buy land in the U.S. ... well .... :)

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: pdq
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 08:54 PM

You hear lots of opinions on the ability of foreign nationals to buy land in Mexico.

As far as I can tell, unless you are a Mexican citizen, you are prohibited from owning land that is less than 100 kilometers from am a national border and 50 kilometers from the coast. That is actuallly 64 miles and 32 miles respectively.

The "100 year lease" is actually two "50 years leases" with automatic renewal. Since the present lease system is (correct me if I am wrong) less than 50 years old and no "automatic renewal" has yet been done, it really does not exist (yet).

Buy land in Mexico? Get your head examined. A shrink may be expensive but will save you big bucks in the long run.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 08:19 PM

Canadians / Americans can buy property in Mexico ... there are restrictions on foreigners buying coastal property though ... you also have to prove that you do have certain amount of income.

As per per corruption ... well, are not the canadian / U.S. governments corrupt and inept in many ways ... it's easier to point the finger at a poorer nation ... the richer ones just package their corruption and dysfunctional processes in a more deceptive wrapping.

As per the statement .. "among things lacking is the ability of the poor or middle class to "own" something in any provable way. If someone richer wants it, you lose it since the "courts" will uphold the claim that the rich already owned it." ... whoa there buddy ... this kind of stuff happens all the time in the U.S. and Canada ... I have even witnessed here in good old New Brunswick where the powerful can easily kick you off paying a minimum value for your land.

I will not argue the violence of these cartels ... but there is a big flow of money coming from above the Mexican border fueling the brutality if these mobsters. These guys will do anything retain their their greed for $money$.

yes ... it is spilling across the border ... whey wouldn't it.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 07:51 PM

thinking of buying a retirement abode down in state Jalisco Mexico ...

My understanding from previous small flaps about retiring in Mexico is that you must be a Mexican citizen in order to own property. Foreigners can only lease a place; and a few years back many retirees found their leases "forcibly vacated" (no refunds) when local businesses decided they wanted the property "for other purposes."

Mexico has lacked a reliable system for ownership of property of any kind for a very long time, and with almost built-in corruption throughout all their legal systems, among things lacking is the ability of the poor or middle class to "own" something in any provable way. If someone richer wants it, you lose it since the "courts" will uphold the claim that the rich already owned it.

The 6,000 or so drug murders last year came on the heels of a lament that one province had more than 500 murders of women, with many of the cases nearing the expiration of the statute of limitations with none solved. (Yes, Mexico has a statute of limitations on MURDER.)

Newpaper and media workers are under threat of death even for reporting anything "negative" about the drug cartels (or even about some "successful busines persons").

There is evidence that some are attempting to clean things up; but there seems to be no office in Mexico where one is immune to being shot on the street, if someone else is "offended."

And it is spilling across the border into the US.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 07:40 PM

Unfortunately we don't even notice our own dead and half dead addicts lying in the street.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 07:37 PM

"Do we notice dead Mexicans?"


             Only if they're laying around in the street!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: number 6
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 07:20 PM

We are seriously thinking of buying a retirement abode down in state Jalisco Mexico. They are trying in earnest to control the drug cartels. Over a 1000 Mexican military have lost their lives in the last year trying to put a stop to this drug violence.

IMHO Kendall's statement is correct ... The U.S. sells the weapons to the Mexican Cartels ... the Cartels in turn makes a very large amount of $$dollars$$ from the never ending thirsty demand for the drugs up in the U.S. and Canada. As long as this market exists, the gangsters will thrive unfortunately.

So ... should we care ... yes, because our drug tolerant society is partly responsible for this shameful violence.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 06:15 PM

Hmmm

I'd be curious to read any comments from catters on a thread entitled "what is the solution to the problem fo Taleban hiding out in Pakistan?"

Of course that title would have to be abbreviated considerably ...

A destabilized Pakistan is a much more serious prospect altogether.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 06:08 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 06:01 PM

WARNING: Cut and Paste follows- people hiding heads in sand should not read.


.................................................................
AP: Mexican President rejects 'failed state' label
         
Traci Carl, Associated Press Writer – 36 mins ago AP – Mexico's Federal Attorney General Eduardo Medina Mora speaks during an interview with the Associated …

MEXICO CITY – President Felipe Calderon on Thursday rejected U.S. concerns that Mexico is losing control of its territory to drug cartels.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Calderon said his government has not "lost any part — any single part — of the Mexican territory" to organized crime. He also called "absolutely false" the idea that Mexico is in danger of becoming a failed state if the violence continues.

That concern has been a major topic of discussion in Mexico and along the U.S. border since the U.S. military first raised it in November. The Pentagon report on potential future threats singled out Mexico and Pakistan as countries where state control is at risk.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090226/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_mexico_drug_battle


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 06:00 PM

Maybe - maybe its just the same age old disparity and it will carry on forever, pausing only to let each successive generation of pigs take over the farm.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do we notice dead Mexicans?
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 26 Feb 09 - 05:50 PM

Lox,

When I visited Oaxaca, back in the mid 70's, the police were armed with machine guns, and we were warned not to go outside town after dark.

Of course, since we came into Mexico on a visa issued in Washington, DC, we had no problems at all.


And that was when the peso was 12 cents, and a real silver coin.


The poverty of the people that I saw, compared to the wealth of the upper class, gave me a view of where we might be headed. IMO, the lack of a strong middle class, and oppurtunity for the poor to advance into it, have provided a situation that will eventually blow up.


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