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BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...

Peace 21 Feb 09 - 05:20 PM
Peace 21 Feb 09 - 05:19 PM
JohnInKansas 21 Feb 09 - 05:05 PM
GUEST,Peace 21 Feb 09 - 04:37 PM
GUEST 21 Feb 09 - 04:36 PM
kendall 21 Feb 09 - 04:28 PM
Bobert 21 Feb 09 - 03:53 PM
fat B****rd 21 Feb 09 - 03:41 PM
kendall 21 Feb 09 - 03:41 PM
Richard Bridge 21 Feb 09 - 01:40 PM
kendall 21 Feb 09 - 01:27 PM
RangerSteve 21 Feb 09 - 01:22 PM
gnu 21 Feb 09 - 12:00 PM
Bobert 21 Feb 09 - 09:48 AM
Richard Bridge 21 Feb 09 - 08:54 AM
Bobert 21 Feb 09 - 08:02 AM
kendall 21 Feb 09 - 07:18 AM
Anonny Mouse 21 Feb 09 - 06:54 AM
John MacKenzie 21 Feb 09 - 05:31 AM
gnu 21 Feb 09 - 04:26 AM
Richard Bridge 21 Feb 09 - 03:46 AM
Seamus Kennedy 21 Feb 09 - 03:23 AM
frogprince 20 Feb 09 - 11:36 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 20 Feb 09 - 11:07 PM
Bill D 20 Feb 09 - 10:37 PM
Bill D 20 Feb 09 - 10:36 PM
SINSULL 20 Feb 09 - 10:20 PM
SINSULL 20 Feb 09 - 10:12 PM
CarolC 20 Feb 09 - 07:45 PM
Bobert 20 Feb 09 - 07:36 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 05:20 PM

But, then I wised up and got an Aztek.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 05:19 PM

And me with an Edsel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 05:05 PM

Pontiac has had a number of sporty models over the years that were a bit on the "special memories" side, but for many years now the main line of GM cars have been a close "family."

At least in the "family car" main line, in the 80s and 90s, you could get a Chevrolet at the bottom of the line and add the right options to turn it into, from the performance/convenience/comfort aspects of it all, into a Pontiac.

You could also get a Pontiac and add a few things and pretty much have an Oldsmobile.

Go a little further with the add-ons and it was a Buick, and at the top of the heap theoretically you had a Cadillac.

There were minor styling differences, but the functional parts that you could add or subtract were all the same, although some times with "model specific" part numbers. (The same actual part, just different numbers.)

The trick was to buy the one that had all the "standard parts" that were really useful to you, with the least number of "fluff and feathers" options that didn't really get you anything, so that you needed the fewest "extras" to get exactly what suited you.

Outside the "performance models" where Pontiac stood out to some extent, the Buick was the first line "above" a Chevy that added a significant amount of door and body insulation that you couldn't get as an option in the lower tier models, and an "optioned up" Chevy could be built to your spec that was just like the baseline Buick except for the extra door insulation that made the Buick doors slam with a nicer thunk. And the "optioned up" Chevy would end up very close to the same price as the baseline Buick.

Ignoring the styling differences, in the family sedan line that was the core of the family, neither Pontiac nor Oldsmobile really added much (that was really useful) that you couldn't get by pick-and-choose in the Chevy. Buick had a couple of useful things that were standard and couldn't be optioned in on the "lesser models," and Caddys had one or two more; so there were some small "decision points" in picking the one that was best for you. For the most part, with the same parts, they were very close to all being the same price.

From the bottom of the line you had to add (and pay for) options that were "standard equipment" in the higher tier lines, and you couldn't "back down" by taking out what came with the "more expensive" line (at least not easily).

Each line did have "side models" that were a bit different, and in some years the "performance" Pontiacs were fairly distinctive. IMO those are the ones that people may have wonderful (if inflated) memories about when the name fades away.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 04:37 PM

OOps . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 04:36 PM

"Bye, bye, Pontiac..."

. . . and his horse, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 04:28 PM

Damn right my old Chevy will do zero to 60 in 15 minutes, but this time of year it would require about 10 more minutes to get the damn thing started. She's a slow starter but when she gets warmed up she is smooth, sweet and sassy. )Had a wife like that)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 03:53 PM

Yeah, I never got to drive Honkin' Henry because Ford had a "paid" driver for it... But whereever it went I went with the Cobra... Wish I had that car today... They were less money than Vettes in their day but look at what a stock 289 Cobra brings today at auction... Like close to a quarter million bucks!!!

gnu, there's gotta bea wrecked Pontiac van out there with a couple of turn-able rotors... Gotta be... I'm suprised there aren't any after market rotors like from Auto Zone...

Zephyrs??? I remember them... Kinda like litle Mustangs, as I recall... Prolly not 2000 pounds (900 kilos)... Man, a 289 in one of them would have been somethin'...

Okay, Kendall, GTO's did rat Falcons... Just not my next door neighbors and not my Falcon... I'll show ya' pics of mine during yer visit with a younger me standing next to it holding a trophy... Might of fact, I don't recall what the "Goats" were running back then but they were alot heavier than the Falcon so even with the 389 tri-power I'd dare say that most were low 14s machines...

Unlike yer Chevy which I'm sure runs in the 13s.... Minutes that is... Awww' jus' funnin' wid ya...

Anyone remember the Grand-deville??? What a boat... Prolly top out at 150 mph but might take awhile to get there... Nice ride...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: fat B****rd
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 03:41 PM

In 1968 The Leicester band Family came to my Mother's house for a drink -it was my 21st birthday- in a huge dark blue Pontiac. I have no knowledge of the type but I felt great as neighbours suddenly emerged to discreetly stare.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 03:41 PM

My brother bought a 340 Duster when it first came out and I was test driving it on the Interstate. He said, "If you can hold her on the floor for 30 seconds, I'll give it to you". I thought, "You just lost your new car." I managed 20 seconds but didn't have the guts to go 30. That damn thing would fly.

Barracudas eat meat. Mustangs are meat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 01:40 PM

I remember reading of Honkin Henry. The 7 litre Galaxies were the weapon of choice for a lot of UK saloon car racers and I remember seeing Jack Sears campaign one. There was a UK tribute called Hirise Henry - in a UK Mark 2 Zephyr. I think it ran a 289 with a big GMC supercharger on top of it. It was very very yellow in colour!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 01:27 PM

My Nephew had a GTO that ate Falcons and shat Escorts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: RangerSteve
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 01:22 PM

I never had a Pontiac. My first car was an Olds F-85. It was ten years old when I bought it. I probably replaced everything related to the cooling system twice in the two years I owned it. It had lots of other problems and I probably put three times the money into fixing it than what I paid for it originally. But it made two trips from NY to Tennessee.
My second car was an AMC Hornet. The transmission never seemed to work right and no one ever fixed it properly. I love American Motors cars. They were ugly, but in a kind of glorious way, as if the designers were saying "we have no talent and we're proud".


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 12:00 PM

Minds me.... last fall, I had The Crawler in fer some work. An old buddy was working on a Pontiac Montana van in the next bay.

Can't recall exactly (no pun intended), but I think the front rotors were shot.... not just shot, warped, so no way to even try to turn them. The van was just over three years old and he was pissed off because he had to tell the owner, sorry, can't get them. The company that was making them for GM stopped because they weren't getting paid by GM for those replaced under warranty.

Just over the three year warranty and the Montana was dead in the water. Would not pass safety inspection and no way to get rotors. Only option... custom made at a machine shop. Price... at least $500... each. (Yeah, price gouging, but, whaddya gonna do?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 09:48 AM

Well, Richard... I've got the time cards somewhere... I also drag raced an AC Cobra which was only about 500 pounds lighter than the Falcon and it ran in the low 12's with an occasional 11.90s
at 114 mph... The 271 hp engine was the same engine as was in the Cobra..The Cobra was Top Dog the summer of '64 in the C/SP class and never lost to a Corvette...

Oh, BTW, the AC Cobra ate 350/350 Corvetes up at evry track I raced with that 271 engine... We raced it in exhibition with a AA/Stock '64 427 Galaxiw named "Honkin' Henry" which was Top Dog on the east coast, was then sold to a racer in Californina who took the winter nationals in Pamona with that car under a different paint job and name...

Believe me, I remember those days well... Hey, I was 16 years old, my dad worked as a district rep for Ford, Ford was into racing, and I had a best summer of my life until I finally got nailed by the Fairfax Country police for drag racing the Cobra on the streets late that summer and lost my license for 6 months...lol...

But when I got it back, all the kids wanted Mustangs... I thought they were ugly so I had my dad get that Falcon built... Burgundy, Futura, black guts, front bench seat... I don't remember the 271 hp even being an option... Yeah, you could get 'um with 427's which would turn in the 9s with slicks and traction bars but my old man thought that was too much motor...

Tell ya' what, if I ever find my old time cards I'll make a copy and send it to ya'... Okay...

BTW, yeah, I remember those 1/4 miles times that Car & Driver put out for various cars... I remeber their driver couldn't even get the AC Cobra into the 12s... Shoulda let the skinny 16 year old drive it...

LOL...

Stroker Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 08:54 AM

12s on 271 HP? No chance. I know people with 350rwhp, dynoed, who can't get into the 12s.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 08:02 AM

Yeah, Bill, I think Kendalll has it pegged... I woulda guesses '48... But then again that was yer second guess...

Well, f-prince, that Falcon was no ordinary Falcon... It was a special order Falcon with the Cobra engine (271 hp) and a Borg-Warner 4 speed and it was one badass Ford... I took it to four local drag strips and brough home 4 trophies... How's high 12s and right at 105 mph sound for a quarter mile... Kids didn't want to ride with me a second time in that car unless they were flat out nuts...

But back tp Pontiacs...

I was just talking yesterday with the P-Vine about how nice it would be to go to the city for supplies in a big wagon... Seamus's Paresianne station wagon would be perfect... The Caprice or Impala station wagons are about the same car... Might check out ebay next time I have some extra dough...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 07:18 AM

I owned one Pontiac, a 1963 Bonneville. Hell wouldn't start it in winter.

Bill, that looks like a 1946-48 to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 06:54 AM

Bought an '09 Vibe, AWD w/"Monsoon" Sound System (300w/with a sub-woofer, MP3 capable); also has the power moonroof/sunroof. Absolutely LOVE it (it is actually a Toyota Matrix, build on the Corolla platform, with a Pontiac signature grill and skin).

First longish drive I got 35mpg on the highway; city? about 22+, and it "knows" when to kick into 4WD; also has electronic traction control. These are great cars for the winter weather we get bombarded with. It has the larger engine, and is plenty peppy, with a ton of interior space. We really like it. Sad to see Pontiac go, but GM has too many repetitive lines more suitable to the 60's and 70's.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 05:31 AM

Looks like Vauxhall may go to the wall here. Another GM owned company.
It will be a disaster for the town of Luton, where it's a major employer, if it does happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 04:26 AM

The 74 LeMans my old man had was huge. And, it stalled a lot in winter, which was a great learning experience for me as a young driver, especially losing the power steering and power BRAKES on snow and ice.... yeeehaaaaaw!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 03:46 AM

If I remember right one of the Catalina Bonneville GTO 2+2s (but I couldn't say which year, maybe 66 or 67) was running 0-100 in about 10 seconds. Another, which I think Pop Mechs dubbed "the boss wagon" so it must have been an estate, and I think it had the heavy duty towing suspension not the "sports suspension" went round the test track they used (could it have been Palm Beach) 2 seconds faster than an Aston Martin. The earlier ones, before they made the lines so fussy, were very good looking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 03:23 AM

I've had 3 1986 Pontiac Parisienne station wagons.
Basically an aircraft carrier on land.

Little F-16 jets used to land on my hood when I'd be driving on the highway.

Great car for carrying PA speakers, amps, instruments, etc.

And I could stretch out and sleep in the back of it when necessary.

Drove 'em till they died.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 11:36 PM

Somebody brought one of the first little LeMans to the cruise nights here last summer; I hadn't seen one of them alive since God knows when. They had a flexible drive shaft, bowed down to minimize the tummel, running to a rear transmission. I always wondered if those driveshafts lasted at all well.

Just in terms of style, I always liked the early Grand Prix, and at least a couple of versions of Prix over the years. The last ones looked..okay, but blanded-down by comparison. I think the oddest thing from Pontiac was the two tailfins on each side on the '59. We have one of those around town here, too.

Bobert must have been the only living human being to outrun a GTO with a Falcon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 11:07 PM

The last car my ex-wife and I owned together was a Pontiac Bonneville, purchased new in 1984. It left when she did, about a year later. Good riddance to both of 'em.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:37 PM

Maybe it was a 48...heck, I forget..


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:36 PM

"Favorite" Pontiac? My family had this when I was about 12. (a 52, I think)It replaced the '37 Chevy...for about 2 years. It went to Colorado & back, but was mostly trouble.

(oh...the dog's name was "Tippy")


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:20 PM

and Saturn


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 10:12 PM

Say goodbye to the Saab and the Hummer (NO! Don't even think it!) and the...more to come.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 07:45 PM

I never had one, and I never particularly wanted one, but JtS really likes the Vibe. He's going to be very disappointed.


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Subject: BS: Bye, bye, Pontiac...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 07:36 PM

Well, word on the strret is that Pontiac is on its way out...

Sniff...

My second car was a 51 Pontiac... Okay, it was the only Pontiac I ever owned and traded it and $10 for a '49 Studebaker... Both were junk but, hey...

But over the years I had many friends who had Pontiacs... Some were cool, others weren't...

Of the cool ones, my next door neighbor who was at the Naval Academy got a nrw '65 GTO, 389 tri-power... Nice car, really... It was too bad for him that he really was afraid of it 'cause we got talkin' tarsh and I had a '65 Falcon with a h.p. 289 (271 h.p.) and he kinda challenged me to a drag race in the middle of town one night and the Falcon tore it up... I don't think that boy ever had been in a car over a 100 mph... But it was a nice car... Much cooler than my little Falcon...

Fast Forward... Claude Simpson had a big ol' 69ish Grand Prix Convert with a 455 in it... It wasn't quick but really felt good to ride in with the top down...

I liked the Fieros... Especially the ones with the 231 V-6's... Reak nice little cars... Okay, not all that well built but hey...

But it looks like this is the end of the line...

Actually, I thought the end of the line came a long time ago with the Pontiac Sun-Chicken... It was junk right off the assembly line...

So, what was your favorite Pontiac???

B~


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Mudcat time: 2 June 5:37 PM EDT

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