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Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!

Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Jan 09 - 04:00 PM
Phil Edwards 09 Jan 09 - 03:17 PM
Sleepy Rosie 09 Jan 09 - 03:14 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Jan 09 - 02:55 PM
The Borchester Echo 09 Jan 09 - 02:52 PM
Sleepy Rosie 09 Jan 09 - 02:29 PM
Surreysinger 09 Jan 09 - 01:30 PM
Noreen 09 Jan 09 - 01:23 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Jan 09 - 01:09 PM
The Borchester Echo 09 Jan 09 - 01:01 PM
The Borchester Echo 09 Jan 09 - 12:50 PM
Noreen 09 Jan 09 - 12:48 PM
The Borchester Echo 09 Jan 09 - 12:45 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Jan 09 - 12:28 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Jan 09 - 12:25 PM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Jan 09 - 11:42 AM
Surreysinger 09 Jan 09 - 11:28 AM
Ruth Archer 09 Jan 09 - 09:56 AM
Fidjit 09 Jan 09 - 09:48 AM
Sleepy Rosie 09 Jan 09 - 09:43 AM
Phil Edwards 09 Jan 09 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Jan 09 - 09:19 AM
Spleen Cringe 09 Jan 09 - 09:16 AM
Spleen Cringe 09 Jan 09 - 09:13 AM
The Borchester Echo 09 Jan 09 - 09:11 AM
Banjiman 09 Jan 09 - 09:10 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Jan 09 - 09:10 AM
Ruth Archer 09 Jan 09 - 08:56 AM
Sleepy Rosie 09 Jan 09 - 08:55 AM
Banjiman 09 Jan 09 - 08:54 AM
The Borchester Echo 09 Jan 09 - 08:34 AM
Ruth Archer 09 Jan 09 - 08:21 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Jan 09 - 08:13 AM
Surreysinger 09 Jan 09 - 08:10 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Jan 09 - 08:06 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Jan 09 - 07:16 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Jan 09 - 07:10 AM
Ruth Archer 09 Jan 09 - 06:48 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Jan 09 - 06:19 AM
Harmony Angel 09 Jan 09 - 06:15 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Jan 09 - 05:59 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 09 Jan 09 - 05:54 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Jan 09 - 05:39 AM
Ruth Archer 09 Jan 09 - 05:31 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Jan 09 - 05:14 AM
Sleepy Rosie 09 Jan 09 - 05:07 AM
Ruth Archer 09 Jan 09 - 05:06 AM
Sleepy Rosie 09 Jan 09 - 04:53 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 09 Jan 09 - 04:34 AM
The Borchester Echo 09 Jan 09 - 04:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 04:00 PM

I love you too, Pip! :0) x
    I love you, too, Lizzie - but I think people are right in saying this has become another "All About Lizzie" thread. I'm going to close it. If there's more to be discussed, somebody can start another thread on the same subject.

    Lizzie, talk about music, not about yourself. If somebody says something that challenges you - talk about music, not about yourself. If our Beloved Diane Easby mentions your name - talk about music, not about yourself.
    -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 03:17 PM

"Noreen, I wasn't *quoting* anyone at all, I was merely saying that is what the general opinion seemed to be.
...
Thank you for quoting my words correctly though, it makes a welcome change."

Well, I object most strongly to Lizzie's assertion that everyone who doesn't like Cliff Richard is a tight-arsed tone-deaf snob with a Geordie accent, a wooden leg and a third nipple. Of course, I'm not quoting Lizzie here, but that's what her general opinion seems to be. Those are NOT the actual words used, but it's up there in her comments, somewhere. One helluva lot to trawl through, but you'll find them.

yup, I write a lot, in a short space of time too, I ramble on, and I openly admit it.

Lizzie, you write too much. Much, much, much too much. You swamp the thread. You drive people away. It's boring. Even if I agreed with every word you wrote, I would want you to shut up.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 03:14 PM

"This site used to have links posted to all sorts of helpful "products" and "advice"."

Ahh, such a pastoral ethos!

Of course if the Cat is to become home to "passers-by" seeking help for their 'female problems', only seems fair that we provide compassionate aid for other sensitive areas like 'erectile dysfunction' (or in latin: 'guest limp-dickus'), which I'm also told is a right bastard...


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:55 PM

Noreen..."labelled" "marketed" whatever fits best for you.

From Surreysinger:

"Lizzie - please just give it a rest ... I for one am wondering how you come to be posting on Mudcat again, since I had thought that Joe had "banned" you and told you that your posts would be removed over a year ago."

Yes, it's a bummer isn't it, Irene, when 'the gang' worked so hard to have me removed. Joe sees beyond..although I'd imagine this thread is stretching even his better nature, but I am trying to remain polite.

"You've managed to turn what was a fun thread into something else again, and not for the first time."

Nope, people are free to 'have fun' slagging off whatever they deem as 'celtic' music (so labelled, marketed, etc..etc) and artists like The Chieftans, The Corrs, Loreena McKennitt and Enya if they so wish, but I happen to love their music, so I'll defend them, vociferously. I also dislike arrogance, narrow-mindedness, lies, spinning, mis-quoting, rudeness and hypocrisy.

We are each entitled to our opinions on music and musicians, me as much as you.

And now...back to 'Dreadful'   :0)


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:52 PM

Vaginal dryness?
OMG, that WOULD be dreadful, not to mention a right bastard.
This site used to have links posted to all sorts of helpful "products" and "advice".
Wonder what happened?


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:29 PM

Is it? You poor old dear!
I suggest you hot foot it to the Dr., I'm told there's all kinds of hormonal help out there for your problem. Good luck with the vaginal dryness, I'm told it's a right bastard.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 01:30 PM

Ralphie ... you are most definitely NOT a crap musician, as quite a few other people will, I am sure, stand up and agree. Whether you are a better cook than a musician, I know not ... but.if you are, Mr Ramsey had better watch out!! I for one am pleased to have the chance to be working with you.

Lizzie - please just give it a rest ... I for one am wondering how you come to be posting on Mudcat again, since I had thought that Joe had "banned" you and told you that your posts would be removed over a year ago. You've managed to turn what was a fun thread into something else again, and not for the first time.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 01:23 PM

Oh, I have read every word of this thread, as I was enjoying it at the start.
I enjoy an interesting exchange of views about music, and enjoy reading other opinions and learning from them.

I think that is why most people are here.

You obviously have your own opinions and want to force them on other people, even when they are not in the least interested. Most other people would go away in such a situation. You are not persuading anyone, just being annoying.

I think a more accurate summary would be that a lot of music marketed as "Celtic" is crap- and with that I agree.

Others have tried above to point out the difference between the two statements, but you must have missed that.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 01:09 PM

"I can, however, point to Simon Care who very bravely put his name to a public bollocking he delivered to MLC because he was so incensed at her constant, long-winded blathering."

Yup, Simon used to have a go at me now and then, as did David. But it was done in good humour. When I went over to Simon's myspace, I wasn't sure of the reception I'd get. He welcomed me very kindly and courteously, Diane. Sorry to disappoint you.

And again, no point in claiming these things if you have no evidence to back them up. I could say a thousand things about you all, under those rules.

I choose not to, because it would not be true.

Noreen, I wasn't *quoting* anyone at all, I was merely saying that is what the general opinion seemed to be. I suggest you read through this thread. you'll find quite a few bits which relate to anything labelled 'celtic' as being rubbish, those are NOT the actual words used, but they're up there, somewhere. One helluva lot to trawl through, but you'll find them.

Thank you for quoting my words correctly though, it makes a welcome change.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 01:01 PM

Celtic crap

I used this expression and I was very clear what I was talking about, i.e. new age, wifty-wafty, commercially-manufactured , tartan- and / or shamrock tinged-lift music with kule'n'weird instruments waved about but not necessarily played.

I posted a clip of Alan Stivell in concert as one example of authentic Celtic music rightfully described as such.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:50 PM

TextEdit ate up some of my sentence:

" . . . tradarts, AND DO NOT, EITHER, HAVE THEIR PERMISSION TO QUOTE THEM WHEN THEY complained . . . ?


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:48 PM

Lizzie, to quote your 'actual' words:
...the general view from some of those from the trad. world that all celtic music is crap...

You are misquoting many people there; there is not one person on this thread, or anywhere else I have seen, who has said that all celtic music is crap.

Please produce your evidence.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:45 PM

I'd be a witness for the prosecution if MLC could be put in the dock for harassment of musicians and defamation of the tradarts.complained about being maligned or just acutely embarrassed by her inane drivelling and fawning. But they exist. Oh, yes.

I can, however, point to Simon Care who very bravely put his name to a public bollocking he delivered to MLC because he was so incensed at her constant, long-winded blathering.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:28 PM

"Lizzie, I do not have their permission to give you their names (perhaps unsurprisingly). I would not seek it, either. But I assure you, I am telling you the truth."

So, let me get this right then, you are 'free' to make any accusation you so choose about me, without producing any evidence, behind the cloak of 'not having someone's permission' to tell me who 'they' are.
In a court of law then, you have no witness for the crime, M'Lud. May I suggest that you therefore stop coming out with something for which you are not willing, or unable, to produce that evidence.

I'm trying to think who it could have been that used to post on the BBC board, who was 'high up' in the folk world. The only person I can recall is Damien Barber and some of the other Demons, and Dave from Mawkin. Now, as you can see from the Sidmouth Folk Week thread above, I love the music of both those artists, and their bands. Damien and Bry were kind enough to give my daughter and I free tickets for Beautiful Days, as I've mentioned before. And Dave often used to natter to me, sometimes to tell me off in a friendly banter, or to come in, as he did on that Dartmoor thread, above, to say "Hello"..and I've met both Damien and David, Bry as well.

I've not been on the BBC board as 'me' for a very, very long time, so why isn't this person back on there, then?

Come on, Joan, leave it out. This is all getting so pathetic. By all means chuck things at me if you can back them up, put links in to words I'm 'supposed to have said'...quote my 'actual' words, rather than those Ralph may want to use, to make me look bad, but you have too much intelligence to sink so low as to be saying these things without any back up.

Tell me, if I were saying such things about you, how would you feel?
And Ralph, if I were misquoting *your* words, how would you feel? Likewise, Diane? Either print the truth, with evidence, or keep lies off the board.

And to the person who took the er...trouble...to count my words, yup, I write a lot, in a short space of time too, I ramble on, and I openly admit it. You don't have to read it..and you too are free to print 7,000 words if you'd like to, I certainly won't count them, nor tell you off for writing them. Besides, I've had a lot to answer in this thread.

And for some good celtic music, try Dom Duff, from Brittany:

Dom Duff's Myspace


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:25 PM

Quote Lizzie.

"Get back to the music Ralph, It's what you do best"

Thank you so much. Actually I'm better in the kitchen, As a musician I'm actually rather crap. Not that you could tell the difference.
I will treat your comment with the contempt it deserves.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 11:42 AM

Hi Rosie.
Welcome.....You have the exact right attitude....
Hopefully see you down the fest season somewhere.
Irene will furnish you with a contact address for me. CD will follow.
Be Kind to yourself.
Hugs Ralphie x


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 11:28 AM

Rosie - welcome to the madhouse, as they say! Fortunately, as I think I may have said in one of our previous emails, you'll find, as I think you already have, that the trad world is actually, despite what Lizzie may say, a very welcoming one, and most people will go out of their way to share songs, tunes and knowledge with anyone who shows an interest. It's certainly not a matter of being a closed-in culty clique ... thank heavens!! If it was, I don't think I'd want to know. Look forward to hearing from you. Look out for another PM, by the way.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:56 AM

Lizzie, I do not have their permission to give you their names (perhaps unsurprisingly). I would not seek it, either. But I assure you, I am telling you the truth.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Fidjit
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:48 AM

Hey Ralphie, Ruth and Diane. Leave some room I up for kicking some butt too !

Well not physically but it grinds on the teeth.

Rosie. I did the Fringe at both Sidmouth and Dartmoor last year and enjoyed every minute. Sure you will too.

Chas


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:43 AM

Surreysinger, cheers for your PM, will get back to you. And Ralphie I'll be sure and chase up your offer of a CD, many Ta's. Yes and yes. And yes. It can get quite barmy here, in a WTF surreal slapstick way...
But that's t'interenet!


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:26 AM

Posters to this thread: 60
Words posted on this thread: 25,000
Words posted on this thread by Lizzie Cornish: 7,000
Average number of words posted by everyone else: 305

I was banned for constantly jabbering on about English folk music, traditional and non-traditional, on the BBC board

You don't say.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:19 AM

Oi You.....You started the bloody thread !!! LOL!!!
As a self-confessed "Newbie" this whole diatribe must seem bizarre to you.
It's been going on for years.
OK. to go back to what I think was your original point. You have discovered traditional singing (Mainly ladies but not exclusively) Yes?
You popped into this maelstrom to get some info? yes?
Hopefully you have had a few insights into the length and breadth of the music that has been forgotten and lost.

Said it before, and will say it again.
Ask the question, and you will get the answer.
Will happily send you "Flat Earth" You might like it, you might not...All part of the learning purpose, (I think it's crap personally, should have waited 6 months before....But hey!)
I hope you have a nice weekend.
Now...Hunker down.....here comes Lizzie again....Be Good. Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:16 AM

As a public service I've started a new thread in BS section.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:13 AM

Hey Rosie - really, really, really take Ralphie up on his offer. You won't be disappointed. "Flat Earth" is a corker. No discerning home should be without a copy. I only heard it for the first time after it had sold out, again thanks to the generosity and CD burning prowess of one Mr Jordan. Top feller!

Yo Ralphie - check yer emails this weekend! We never followed up on our phone conversation from last year... at least partly because my good intentions keep grinding to a shuddering halt. Confused? Possibly...


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:11 AM

For those who appear to have an interest and for the avoidance of any doubt, my communications with the Cowperson of Ambridge have been limited to the electronic and although we have been close to meeting on a number of occasions, fate or perhaps more deliberate forces have conspired to prevent it. Ralph Jordan and I know each other but it needs to be borne in mind that he is someone with a contacts book the size of a small planet.

I do not know MLC, whatever the impression she tries to convey. Like Ruth though, I've heard from many a musician that they dread her latching on to them (one in a PM just a moment ago . . . )

I also do not know Rosie, but feel I would like to.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:10 AM

Ruth,

Unfortunately my wife agrees.........

Paul


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:10 AM

"And another thread becomes All About Lizzie. There's a shocker. "

Nope, because I have been deliberately misquoted, I have corrected those words and had my say about what has been going on here. Up to that point I'd merely been disagreeing with the general view from some of those from the trad. world that all celtic music is crap, which I think I'm permitted to do, as is anyone else on this board.

"For the record, you had been banned from folk messageboards for your OTT behaviour long before I ever even joined any of them. So again, the conspiracy theory doesn't quite add up."

Yup, I was banned from the BBC, then let back on. Ian Anderson banned me, but then, Ian Anderson bans quite a few folk, from what I've heard, especially if you aren't from the 'inner circle' or are a (shock horror) singer songwriter. The BBC let me rejoin, and then...whoody doo, along came you, Ralph and Diane.

"I DO know artists who find your behaviour very disturbing, because they have told me."

Then PM me their names. I keep hearing this from you and Diane, so own up to these names. I don't want them embarrassed on here, unless they agree to their names being mentioned.

I've never mentioned any artist who has asked me to keep their names quiet, nor would I. I can tell you that Vaughan, Show of Hands manager did ask me, via Myspace, if I'd go quiet, during the release of 'Witness' as he wanted folk to make up their own minds about the CD without any intervention from me. I did this immediately, and cut right back on my posts about Show of Hands from then on. Steve said thanks, via email, through a mutual friend, when I told him that all would be quiet on the South Western Front. He also said a song with a similar title to that may one day appear. It did, on 'Witness'...a damn brilliant song too.

"I also know at least one high-profile artist who used to contribute to messageboards but doesn't anymore, specifically because of your antics. Which is unfortunate, because I feel pretty sure I know whose perspective most people would be more interested in."

Again...PM their name, or reveal it on here, if you have their permission. I have never shirked from honesty Joan. So instead of saying these things to get people wondering, or again, to paint a bad picture of me, tell us.

I am into honesty, so, be honest.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:56 AM

NOTHING is better than the Radio 4 one, Banjiman. Nothing.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:55 AM

"And now, I'll leave you three to continue to welcome Rosie to 'your' world."

Buddy 'ell. This is all starting to sound a bit freaky and cult-like from where I'm sitting... "She's my wife now" Lol!
Just for the record. I've had as good as *zero* interaction with Diane Easby online here. I don't know who she is, and I'm sure she's not interested in me. Though Ruth amongst a few other posters here, has been very accommodating and helpful. And as far as I know, those individuals who I referred to in my earlier post - and who initially welcomed me to traddie-land on those other fora I mentioned - are probably floating around here someplace under alternate ID's (such as Surrysinger below, who I've only just recognised). I've no interest in being cast as being absorbed into some cult-like exclusive clique. I have no real understanding of all the fueding, but I can see that it's not very positive for the music. Even so, it's not my gig.
My mind, suffice it to say, is entirely my own. And shall ever remain so. So be assured, if I ever squabble with you, it'll only ever be because you have *personally* given me genuine cause to do so.. And you'd have to work hard to really piss me off, 'cos I'm usually quite laid back. Though of course I do have periods still... ;-)
Anyway, I don't want to start feeling paranoid. The internet is a weird enough place as it is.... So enough on that!

Beautiful Days, I've heard of btw. And I might take a look into it.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Banjiman
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:54 AM

This thread is better than a soap opera ...... even the radio 4 one!




This is dreadful........but then I don't like pianos in folk music at the best of times.

What you shouldn't do to a folk song/ tune


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:34 AM

A "modern singer-songwriter" is merely a description of performing one's own compositions.
Similarly, a "singer of traditional songs" performs music from a tradition.
They are different.
The Young Tradition was a 60s revivalist a capella band, whereas the "New Tradition" is a wholly contradictory, meaningless term coined by MLC to make a non-existent point, just in case she ceases to be the centre of attention (ha!)
It's very hard to pinpoint what a performer of a not exclusively traditional repertoire on a number of instruments could learn from a songwriter.
A workshop could be done on it, though. Ask the participants what they want to learn about then demonstrate something else entirely. A new and entirely useless genre of performance art.
Gawd, I feel so . . . tired.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:21 AM

And another thread becomes All About Lizzie. There's a shocker.

For the record, you had been banned from folk messageboards for your OTT behaviour long before I ever even joined any of them. So again, the conspiracy theory doesn't quite add up.

I DO know artists who find your behaviour very disturbing, because they have told me. I also know at least one high-profile artist who used to contribute to messageboards but doesn't anymore, specifically because of your antics. Which is unfortunate, because I feel pretty sure I know whose perspective most people would be more interested in.

No one need twist your words to put you into a bad light, Lizzie. They need only read your posts.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:13 AM

'Modern Singer Songwriters' are the New Tradition, whether you like it or not. And you know what, Ralph, you and your mates have a great deal to learn from them.

Never ONCE have any of them been bitchy, unpleasant, belittling, or foul of spirit, to me. Only ever, welcoming, kind, friendly and appreciative. You should hang out with far more of them. They have MUCH to teach the closed English Traditional world.

Now, I'd suggest you swallow your bitterness, then keep it to yourself, because it's not pleasant for others to see.

Get back to the music, Ralph. It's what you do best.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Surreysinger
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:10 AM

I'm on the case, Ralphie! Rosie - hope you got my PM ... I don't think I left my email address on it, but you should find one of them on the "Listen and You Shall Hear" MySpace page.

If you want any suggestions on places to sing at Sidmouth etc we can continue the conversation!! Ralphie isn't QUITE right in suggesting that I live in the Volunteer - I have been known to venture elsewhere, even into the Radway this year on two occasions, having been forced to go there and play concertina by Ralphie (thanks RJ!!) And I DON'T have a specific seat ... what is he insinuating?? I gave up my position as member of the Bay Window Mafia (thanks to Tom Addison for the name!!) in 2008 ... maybe it should be Inglenook Flashmob from now on in ??

Can I say here that I think I may very well be able to claim the privilege of having bought the very last copy of Flat Earth up for sale, having managed to find one on sale by Roots Records in Coventry on the internet. That sale was, of course, nothing to do with Lizzie's postings on the BBC board two years previously. They had just the one, and the proprietor of the company had not realised it was out of print ... I managed to buy that in summer 2008 ... and a very good buy it was too, as I finally got to see the sleeve notes and the cover artwork !! I reckon you should enjoy it Rosie.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 08:06 AM

You know, 'Ruth', I've just been reading that "'Live' from Sidmouth thread" above. It actually brought a tear or two to my eyes. It's filled with happiness, and colours, and bright, bright things.

It's also filled with great memories, for me. Heck, I wrote it...and I *loved* writing it, every single one of those 15,000 words about it, I loved doing all of it. It wore me out that year, I remember, as I was reading it back. Dashing here and there, dashing home to look after my animals and Nanny, back down to town again..etc.etc..

When I got to the end of those words though, there was Diane, pouring cold water on the whole damn lot, and the arguments started. Why? Why can't you three just occasionally say something kind, huh? Everyone else enjoyed those words, apart from one other misery guts who 'had' to make a point about smileys...but nope, down swooped Diane The Dementor, sucking out all the joy and happiness. I truly don't understand.

I don't care if you've actually met each other. I know that Diane and Ralph are great pals, because she's told me. I truly don't care about all three of you any longer, full stop. I just think you come across as unhappy people, determined to belittle and put someone down who once loved 'your' music. Only the three of you know why that is.

Personally, I'd recommend that you read those words on Sidmouth, that were written during the first Folk Week, then stop niggling away at me and try turning your attentions to ensuring that this year's Sidmouth folk week is as outstanding as the first one was, or perhaps, even more so. I'd have far more respect for you if you did that.

It's obvious, for those who choose to see, that the same gang of people are the ones constantly on my back about the same subject, because your names, along with your words, are on various boards. It truly ain't hard to work out. Personally, I'd have preferred to pm Ralph, but as he always posts on here as a 'Guest' I can't do that.

Read the Sidmouth review though, and see a very 'different' Ralph, one who enjoyed me talking about his band, who enjoyed the Sidmouth review and who enjoyed talking about his music, as he has done once more, on this thread. For some reason that all changed, at least, in relation to me. I wish it hadn't, but there ya go. I'd always got on well with Ralph, as those threads show, giving mention of his band whenever I could, trying to draw people in to their music, and whether you like it or not, I did do that. I've done it for others too, and I'm always pleased when it happens, because I write for that very reason, to tell people about artists whose music I love, in the hope that they too will buy the CDs, help to spread the word.

For some reason, you and a few others have always resented me talking about 'your' music, loving it in the way I once did. Well, now you don't have to worry any longer. There'll be no more reports on Sidmouth from me, so unless you or your friends decide to pick up from where I left off, which I think would be a good idea, all will be quiet on the Sidmouth front, save for a few personal messages swapped back and forth between you all.

And now, I'll leave you three to continue to welcome Rosie to 'your' world.

I hope she discovers much beautiful music along the way, and I also hope she decides never to take part in what the three of you, and your mates, persist in doing.   I am not a victim, never have been, never will be, but I am sorely p*ssed off with no longer being able to write on the BBC about a music I so loved, purely because of petty minded, spiteful, jealous, controlling little minds, who refused to let me just write in my own way about something which was once so important to me. Those minds, even to this day, take satisfaction in getting any new posts from me, removed from the BBC board, completely overlooking the fact that what they are doing is removing words about artists, about music, with links to the pages of those musicians, for others to find and love. No, such is the meaness of spirit, and their perverse hatred of me, that they care not a fig for musicians, not a fig that not nearly enough people write about musicians on that board, as they're too damned busy writing drivel about themselves, which is of no interest to anyone.

And before you come back to me with the usual screams of how artists hide in corners, shivering in fright that I may write about them, you and I know that isn't true. I've been sent many CDs over the years by artists themselves. Go figure. You know well that friends of yours have sent me tickets for festivals. Go figure. Sorry kiddo, I can sell CDs with my enthusiasm, so *just* get over it, and in the past, I've worked damn hard at doing exactly that, not for me, but for musicians.

I'm sorely p*ssed off at the way you, Diane and Ralph have either misquoted or twisted my words in here, to try and make people see me in a bad light, yet again.

In short, just get over it, and move on. Move on to keeping Sidmouth safe for other generations to enjoy.


And now, I'm off to listen to some more music, which for me, is almost beyond beauty, the wonderful Loreena McKennitt again, her 'Mask and the Mirror'CD....and from that CD, here is, imo, the very beautiful and moving:

Mystic's Dream



And I'll leave you with these final words, taken from above..

From Diane:

"Dreadful is perhaps too impassioned a word to use about McKennit-Enya-like tosh."

From me:

"What I can't stand is arrogant viewpoints that 'we' are so much better than 'them', because 'we' know all about proper 'traditional' music.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 07:16 AM

That last line came out wonky!
Should read.

"Have you heard xxxxxx? They/He/She makes me want to play with puppies and watch daffodils growing"

Shaking head sadly!!

And Rosie the offer is still on...You can get my address via Irene (Surreysinger)


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 07:10 AM

And to add Ms Archers comments. (Hi Joan, Long time no see...A year-ish?)
No this is not a monstrous regiment of women (plus one token bloke) ganging up on you. But Please....I think we know who you like in a musical way. Jolly Good. I happen to like Carla Bley, Frank Zappa, Bela Bartok, Stravinsky. Robert Wyatt, Soft Machine, alongside all the Traditional singers and musicians that you seem to have dissed in favour of modern Singer Songwriters.
Do I bang on about my interests incessantly? No I don't. If a topic comes up that is useful, then I contribute, and have met several great friends by doing so.
What I don't do is a sky burst of gooey sicky yucky fandom.
Why not go to a gooey sicky yucky fandom site for that.
And leave the people who want to disseminate and share real ideas alone.


Sorry "insert band name here) make me want to play with daffodils" needs to live elsewhere. Preferably a long long way from me.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 06:48 AM

Much as I hate to be a pedant...

firstly, you did not "sell" the CDs, Lizzie. Secondly, the thread you have linked to says there were two CDs available - you bought one and someone else bought the other. This does not equate to you selling "quite a few of Ralph's CDs."

"I realise that you, Ralph and Diane are all very, very close buddies,"

I understand that it serves your purpose to believe this, Lizzie, because you can then give credence to the idea that there is a cohesive group of people who are out to get you. Diane and I have never met. Ralphie and I have met a few times in real life, because we've been at the same events. That's it. All three of us have disagreed with you quite strongly in the past, but that means no more than the fact that we, as individuals, disagree with you.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 06:19 AM

Warlock If you don't mind.
Ralph ("In one bar there was Patterson Jordan Dipper, In the other bar, musicians" - Quote Lizzie) Jordan.
PS The only person stirring up stuff here is you.
It was an interesting thread to start with. And then you trampled all over it. What is the female equivalent of Mr Franks I wonder?


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Harmony Angel
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 06:15 AM

Many years ago I bought an LP of Irish fiddle music played by a guy named Dinty McLaughlin (or something like that). Not only did he play the fiddle but he was step dancing while he did so! The resulting noise was truly unbelievable. If that wasn't bad enough, the track grooves on the LP weren't concentric with the hole in the middle of the disk so the pitch of the aforementioned noise went up and down as the record revolved. It's so bad it really makes you laugh.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 05:59 AM

By the way, apologies if many links in the festival messages of mine no longer work, but they were written several years back and the internet constanty changes and updates all the time. (And yes, I'm the 'number' on those posts, as my name was deleted by the BBC waaaay back now, after The Witches won their quest) :0)


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 05:54 AM

From Diane:

"When I challenged Ms Cornish's outrageous claim to have been, singlehanded, a sales agent for Flat Earth, she came out with the following:

"It's your music, you keep it in it's box and then it will always remain the same. No matter that they are simply songs sung by ordinary people from way back. To you, they are almost holy.'"


I said that, yes, but after I had said this:

"Yup, that's right...and I tracked down a few copies..and they then went too after I'd spoken about that CD, but...let's not get in to it all over again, eh.

It's your music, you keep it in it's box and then it will always remain the same. No matter that they are simply songs sung by ordinary people from way back. To you, they are almost holy.

So keep them in your holy book, with its religious rules and boundaries. I'm out here listening and enjoying music that has no boundaries and that belongs to a world where all are welcome.
"

So, far from claiming to have 'singlehandedly' been a sales agent for flat earth, I said that I had merely sold a few copies. Please feel free to read my words above on misrepresenting what people have actually said. (Although as you were once a journalist, I presume this may happen without you realising you are doing it, which is why I feel beholden to point it out) :0)


From 'Ruth':

Having read the threads, it appears that Chris Murray "found" two copis of the CD in question on Amazon (arduous search, that must have been). You bought one and someone else bought the other.

THIS is the basis of the assertion that you've been making for the past few years that you "sold quite a few of his CDs via my enthusiasm on the BBC board"?

I'm not sure that your own assessment of your impact and influence on Ralph's career quite matches the reality, Lizzie.


Sigh...

All three of the Amazon copies went, within hours of me posting. I bought one, Ade bought one, Chris, I presume bought one, and she's on record for saying she has bought CDs after reading my recommendations, from time to time..and Anne was off to try and find another. Whether Anne and Chris actually did buy them, I've no idea, ALL I know is that ALL three CDs were sold. Someone, I assume, therefore was unable to buy one, as 4 into 3 don't go.

I realise that you, Ralph and Diane are all very, very close buddies, but I sure as heck wish the you'd all get off the three seats left vacant by Macbeth's Witches, and let the cauldron cease from Hubble Bubbling all the time.

I have *never* claimed to have done other than what I did, and that was to be able to sell 'a few' of Ralph's CDs for him. I was very pleased that I'd been able to do that, as he and the rest of the band made good music. I'm also pleased, if, because of this ridiculous hulabaloo that Ralph will now be sending Rosie one of his CDs. I'm sure she'll like it.

I'm also sure she'll love Sidmouth, in the same way that I once did.

'Live' from Sidmouth

Dartmoor festy is, as Ralph says, well worth a visit. Far more 'countryfied' than Sidmouth, but equally charming.

Dartmoor Folk Festival - 'Devon Heaven'

And of course, as Rosie likes 'sparkles' something tells me she may also love The Levellers own festival, which again, is well worth going to. Sadly though, you can no longer buy 'day' tickets, unless they've changed it back, for this year, which I sure hope they do one day.

Beautiful Days Festival


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 05:39 AM

Oh Ruthie, don't be so modest!!
But hey, It's a good thing that Ms Sleepy Rosie has found people like you!
Later Ralphie xx


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 05:31 AM

I was the Programmer at my last festival - Artistic Director sounds dead posh.

And don't I feel ever so posh, writing out all these contracts...it's all glamour, dontcha know.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 05:14 AM

Well Sidmouth is the place to go. !! Not just for the big events, but do check out the Volunteer which runs every lunchtime. Enourmous fun, and powerful singing. No idea who's on the bill as yet, but a guaranteed hit. lots of traditional singing. (Irene almost lives there so, be warned, don't knick her seat!!)
You'd be welcome in the Radway (opposite the cinema), which is where I mainly hang out. All caliber of musicians, and bring your mandolin too. I might bring mine and we can Duet!

Oh and in case you didn't know Ruth Archer (Joan Crump) of this parish has just been appointed artistic director (or some other weird title!). No doubt she'll be able to inform you as to whats happening when as the months pass by. She's not bad for a Yank!

And if your coming down Sidders Why not stay on for Dartmoor Fest (follows on from Sid). Very different, and hey you might want to enter the step dancing competition! Not quite confirmed but my band Housewives Choice might be doing the Saturday night dance. Always a hoot!
Onwards and happy listening/singing/playing....God I hope you've got a large credit limit!!


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 05:07 AM

Ooops, hey Ralphie, I'll take you up on that, ta! Gotta dash now though...


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 05:06 AM

"I certainly don't believe that they want to keep their arts away from the people, but I can I think understand why they would wish to preserve the integrity of the tradition that they work with."

And she's got it in one. :)

Rosie, there are people who have been on this forum for years who still haven't got their heads round this idea. All I can say is, welcome aboard!


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 04:53 AM

Hi Ralphie, just quickly I aughta say I don't personally know Johnny Adams, he ran the forums which first introduced me to the 'traddie community'- including SurrySinger/Irene there. And as I said below, everyone there were so nice and encouraging that I wanted to offer my own somewhat brighter take on traddies.

I can't even begin to pretend to understand all of the issues which lead to such heated debating jon the Cat, but if my personal experience was anything to go by, I certainly don't believe that they want to keep their arts away from the people, but I can I think understand why they would wish to preserve the integrity of the tradition that they work with.

I'm learning to sing a bit... Specifically what caught my interest a couple or so months ago, was the (until then unknown to me) tradition of *unaccompanied English song*. So I'm picking up the odd song here and there, even though frankly I haven't sung hardly at all this winter since discovering trad song, due to various lingering coughs, flue, and asthma!! Typical huh!! So my 'reportoire' is still dreadfully shabby and meagre. But hey, there's plenty of time left in the rest of my life to learn more songs. Apart from singing, I've also got an old mandolin, which I'm starting to learn, and keyboards, and a Viol. Bit of a bizzare mix now I think on it.

Looking forward to going to Sidmouth festival this year, amongst perhaps one or two other forays into the folk fest scene. So I expect I'll get to learn a lot more about folk and the people that populate this board, this Summer. Very pleased to be here I am too.


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 04:34 AM

Thanks Diane!
Oh and Rosie, happy to burn you a copy....It's really quite nice, (well I think so!).
Nothing to listen to online (as far as I know) but you might find leads to some reviews by searching Wildgoose Records...


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Subject: RE: Oh My God, That's Dreadful!!!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 04:25 AM

When I challenged Ms Cornish's outrageous claim to have been, singlehanded, a sales agent for Flat Earth, she came out with the following:

It's your music, you keep it in it's [sic] box and then it will always remain the same. No matter that they are simply songs sung by ordinary people from way back.

I'd have put this into Rosie's "recomendations" thread but the band ain't playing and the CD's O/P. For those who may want to listen to this work if it ever gets its 3rd pressing, the entire point is its arrangements, updates and innovations which render the trad tracks fresh and new and quite unlike previous renditions, and showcase new compositions which point to where English music is today.

In contrast to most of the bedraggled copyist offerings MLC drags out, there's not not a phrase in it that's derivative or remotely resembling "dreadful". Be carewell where you get your "assessments" from.


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