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Why folk clubs are dying

Jim Carroll 15 Jan 09 - 04:00 AM
Jack Blandiver 14 Jan 09 - 02:46 PM
Banjiman 14 Jan 09 - 11:46 AM
Banjiman 14 Jan 09 - 11:42 AM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 14 Jan 09 - 11:07 AM
Phil Edwards 14 Jan 09 - 11:00 AM
Jack Blandiver 14 Jan 09 - 09:39 AM
GUEST,Ian 14 Jan 09 - 06:57 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Jan 09 - 03:31 AM
melodeonboy 13 Jan 09 - 07:42 PM
Phil Edwards 13 Jan 09 - 10:48 AM
Jim Carroll 13 Jan 09 - 10:06 AM
Phil Edwards 12 Jan 09 - 05:14 PM
Richard Bridge 12 Jan 09 - 04:53 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Jan 09 - 02:47 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Jan 09 - 02:30 PM
Richard Bridge 12 Jan 09 - 02:05 PM
Big Al Whittle 12 Jan 09 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,Ian 12 Jan 09 - 01:52 PM
Will Fly 12 Jan 09 - 01:41 PM
greg stephens 12 Jan 09 - 12:16 PM
Folkiedave 29 Dec 08 - 05:33 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Dec 08 - 03:45 AM
The Sandman 24 Dec 08 - 04:56 PM
TheSnail 24 Dec 08 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,Faye 24 Dec 08 - 10:52 AM
Nick 24 Dec 08 - 05:23 AM
Nick 24 Dec 08 - 04:57 AM
Melissa 24 Dec 08 - 04:23 AM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 24 Dec 08 - 04:19 AM
Melissa 24 Dec 08 - 03:58 AM
Will Fly 24 Dec 08 - 03:56 AM
Sooz 24 Dec 08 - 03:54 AM
Folkiedave 24 Dec 08 - 03:49 AM
Melissa 24 Dec 08 - 03:49 AM
Will Fly 24 Dec 08 - 03:44 AM
Melissa 23 Dec 08 - 10:29 PM
Ian Fyvie 23 Dec 08 - 10:15 PM
Maryrrf 23 Dec 08 - 07:36 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 23 Dec 08 - 07:09 PM
Melissa 23 Dec 08 - 06:46 PM
GUEST,Avatara 23 Dec 08 - 06:28 PM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 23 Dec 08 - 08:33 AM
Jim Carroll 23 Dec 08 - 07:41 AM
Aeola 23 Dec 08 - 07:32 AM
Folkiedave 23 Dec 08 - 03:46 AM
Ian Fyvie 22 Dec 08 - 09:55 PM
TheSnail 22 Dec 08 - 07:34 PM
Ian Fyvie 22 Dec 08 - 02:53 PM
The Villan 22 Dec 08 - 12:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 04:00 AM

"43 (but 44 tomorrow!)....."
Happy birthday Paul
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 02:46 PM

Now you're just making me feel old - I get enough of that of Rachel. Folk Clubs - the one place a 47-year-old bloke can go to feel that priceless sense of sparkling youthfulness - a veritable elixir so it is!


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Banjiman
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 11:46 AM

p.s. nobody seems squirmingly embarrassed (or squirmingly embarrassing) either.

"Weird beards and coffin dodgers"..... we actively encourage goths!


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Banjiman
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 11:42 AM

43 (but 44 tomorrow!)..... don't mind a bit of a croon (as long as it sounds somewhat traditional).

We're starting to get a few more youngsters in at KFFC (2 teenagers, 3 x 20 somthings and a smattering of 30 somethings)..... they don't seem to mind the odd snigger/ snogwriter either. Balance, that's the thing!

Paul


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 11:07 AM

45. Same room (last week, anyway).

Put that in yer pipe, oh bearded one...


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 11:00 AM

at 47 I'm still the youngest in the Folk Club room,

I wish I could contradict you, but I'm 48...

and still bored shitless by the Dylanesque guitar crooners & singer-songwriters

Amen to that.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 09:39 AM

We all used to go folk clubs in the 1960's because we didn't want to stay at home and watch Rolf harris, Val Doonican and The Younger Generation

Born in 1961 I had little choice to stay home and watch Rolf Harris, Val Doonican and The Young Generation. In fact, it wasn't until 1976 that I made my first forays into folk clubs, aged 14, curiosity if not killing the cat then giving it a right good kicking; thus finding myself the youngest in the back room though by then I was already well equipped with the archive - going straight for the Trad. Jugular, the big ballads and the brutal old songs; the Lucy Wans and the McGintie's Meal an' Ales, leaving the Dylanesque guitar crooners & singer-songwriters to what I hoped would be a merciful extinction not too long in the coming. By 1976, the sixties were finally over & the game was well and truly afoot, and over the next few years I saw The Damned, The Ramones, Derek Bailey, Peter Bellamy, Jim Eldon, Evan Parker, The National Health, Rene Clemencic, The Watersons, Lol Coxhill, June Tabor, Sun Ra, John & Sue Kirkpatrick, Joy Division and The Fall, though not all of them in folk clubs I admit, but cultural life in the late seventies / early eighties was pretty cool.

Scroll on 33 years & at 47 I'm still the youngest in the Folk Club room, and still bored shitless by the Dylanesque guitar crooners & singer-songwriters who still think the answer's blowin' in the wind. I still sup from the unfailing blood of the Trad. Jugular - the real meat of folk, which, then as now, I regard as the pure essence of the thing; the Muckle Sangs and the real Traditional Singers, who were always more than fecking source singers for revivalists to plunder, as any self-respecting revivalist would admit. These days I take heart that anyone sings this stuff at all; these exacting enthusiasts and devotees so glibly dismissed as elitists purely because they are in a minority.

There's no point to this by the way, just an autobiographical note from a non baby-boomer Traddy for whom Traditional Song is but one small part of the cultural landscape, however so revived and exclusive that may be, and not without good reason. I often ponder why the folk-revival happened at all - and why it did nothing to encourage, engender or otherwise facilitate a second wave until comparatively recently. It is enough, however, that it happens at all, however so small a thing it might be, however so intimate, however so human, however so defined as much by context as it ever was by content, but there it is, big enough for me. Another 33 years down the line however... feck, now there's a sobering thought!


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 06:57 AM

"Weird beards and coffin dodgers"

Thanks, I was looking for a good name for a band we are setting up!

Hope there are some pubs left for us to play in...

What worries me is that whilst I don't know where Steamin' Willie Hardonn is coming from with his views, he does have one point. Audiences aren't getting any younger in general, despite some of the amazing younger talent on the professional circuit.

Dunno about the squirmingly embarrassing bit though. A mate gave me a tape of me playing at a club in 1980 recently, and I wasn't too impressed, despite taking myself more seriously then than now. (Didn't have a beard then either!)

Melodeonboy has it right. If you get out, you see more and may like what you see. Too right. some clubs are on my list to avoid in future, whilst I can't wait to go back to others.

There is no such thing as a "club" as there is no such thing as a "pub." The variety itself should be enough to keep people at least curious, and if you like the music, you are more than half way there to a great night out.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 03:31 AM

"Oh Mum come quick 'cos I feel very sick and I want to lay down and die..." - Lord Randal, Child 12.
"Steamin Willie Hardonn" - who was that arrogant prick?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: melodeonboy
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 07:42 PM

"All you have is nostalgia."

Speak for yourself!

I've only been back in the country for three years, having spent most of my adult life abroad. I didn't go to folk clubs thirty years ago, so nostalgia doesn't come into it for me. And I'm having a whale of a time.

Not everything out there is good, but if you can be arsed to make the effort and look around, there are great times to be had!


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 10:48 AM

"Oh Mum come quick 'cos I feel very sick and I want to lay down and die..."

I first heard that one from my younger sister, when she was in the Brownies.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 10:06 AM

"Kids! Don't let this happen to you! Learn a Child ballad today! "
Many of them already know at least one- Weela Weela Walya - and maybe even Henry My Son,
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 05:14 PM

Actually, I can answer that. It was a holiday, a holiday, the first of all the year, and Al to the church had gone, all moody and interesting in check shirt and sandals, to see fair ladies there. Unfortunately, his well-established aversion to long ballads left him ill-prepared for what happened next. Fortunately for Al, Lord Barnard eventually saw the funny side, but the post-traumatic after-effects of the experience left him permanently unable to strike his trademark check-shirted moody pose, or to so much as look at a pair of sandals.

Kids! Don't let this happen to you! Learn a Child ballad today!


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 04:53 PM

Gosh Al, what happened since?


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:47 PM

Personally I figured I looked good in check shirt and sandals, and with a beard. You can put up with any amount of folk music to make the right fashion statement. It was 'ban the bomb' chic

With all this shite music going (long ballads, jigs and reels) I thought - this is my chance to strike a pose and look moody, sexy and interesting - give the room a chance to focus on something attractive, but with unmistakeable allure of depravity - me.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:30 PM

"We all used to go folk clubs in the 1960's because we didn't want to stay at home and watch Rolf harris, Val Doonican and The Younger Generation."
Another theory bites the dust.
Some of us took to folk music because we liked it - some of us still do no matter what kicking it gets from 'wannabe folkies'.
jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:05 PM

And the threat superseded by the threat of SKYTV the brainkiller.

Run!

While you still can!

While you still realise that you should!

You have been delivered from ennui to brain death!


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:59 PM

I have this theory.

We all used to go folk clubs in the 1960's because we didn't want to stay at home and watch Rolf harris, Val Doonican and The Younger Generation.

The shadow of the threat of Jake the Peg (with an extra leg) has been lifted for ever.

We have been delivered.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:52 PM

I have had a good read through this (and other) threads on similar subjects.

there are many dedicated people, who thoroughly enjoy their hobby, lifestyle and cultural relaxation, and work hard to ensure others have a chance to enjoy it also.

That said, if venting your spleen on these pages is to have some benefit, then it is a good idea to try and sum up (ok, based on my views which may not be everybody's..) what the observations have highlighted.

There are some subscribers who if they re read their posts, may perhaps accept they are a little precious? Rather than ask why clubs are not the tour de force of 30 years ago, defend things that others criticise. No problem with that, it would be awful if we all agreed.

But ask why people do not attend in the droves they used to? Perhaps they have moved on. Perhaps they sometimes feel uncomfortable with the sentiments in many popular songs? Perhaps they look for nostalgia but find they are a different person now, so the nostalgia is for a different them as well as a different time?

Perhaps we have been replaced by Virtual Folk CLub II, available for PSIII, PC and X Box. From the comfort of your own home.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:41 PM

Well, I wish them every success! I hope you remembered that charity begins at Stoke, and mentioned a certain band to them...


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:16 PM

Here is an interesting fact of relevance to the discussions on the moribundity of clubs etc.
I have just had an email from two trendy young twenty-somethings asking for advice on acts to book: they are going to OPEN A FOLK CLUB! In London!
So, how about that eh?
A Happy New Year to one and all.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Folkiedave
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 05:33 AM

As ever Jim, an excellent post and I echo all of the sentiments. It must be the Edinburgh air!

I have been extremely fortunate in my own life (thus far - though I suspect more is behind than in front) to have met some wonderful people and shared some memorable times with them. The vast majority of which have involved some sort of generous hospitality.

I hope in some small way to have reciprocated.

You wanna see backbiting at its best? Try sport at any level.

And a happy New Year to you all.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 03:45 AM

Don't panic; don't panic - it is not my intention to re-open a subject which I believe has been given a sufficient enough airing to suggest that arguments such as this do not change anybody's minds - it would be extremely naive to suggest that they do. After all, most of us have given the subject enough thought and gone through enough experiences at the 'folk face' in the past to have fairly firm opinions and knowledge on whatever we discuss on these forums.
The best we can hope for is that we arrive at some understanding of each others opinions and bear them in mind when forming our own - that's how it has usually worked for me anyway.
"The nit-picking, sneering, mean-spirited comments here are NOT good advertising"
It is this, and similar statements I wanted to comment on.
The world of folk - 'folk' even - includes one of the friendliest, co-operative, generous and dedicated group of people it has ever been my good luck to encounter (try the theatre, or classical music, or thumb through some of the pop-mags if you want snide, backbiting, self-interest/promotion/indulgence/importance - whatever).
This forum is full of contributions which offer advice, help and material - often to a staggering degree in my experience.
For me, and I suspect, for a few others, the music that we have spent quite a long time attempting to promote to a position we believe it deserves, is under threat of disappearing as a performed art. That some of us feel passionate enough to be prepared to risk ruffling feathers and frightening a few horses on occasion, is a strength and nothing to do with nastiness or mean-spiritedness - it means we care enough to speak our minds - long may that continue to be the case.
I am extremely grateful to the original questioner for her thought-provoking question - the only disagreement I have with her is that she felt it necessary to apologise - it wasn't; nor has it been for those who have gone before and hopefully, will come after.
A Happy New Year to all - including those whose noses we have got up.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 04:56 PM

ubject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: GUEST,Faye - PM
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 10:52 AM

Yes, I think that organisers should impose quality control. That's not a criticism though. I am aware that organisers have to allow the crap singers to get up and sing because they come every week and bring their mates and family with them.

OK, I wrote my first post at a time when I was feeling very heated. Sorry about any misunderstandings. I'll cool down before I post next time, promise.
yes, always a good idea to calm down before posting,and also to read posts properly.
to accuse me of not having a respect for the music is laughable,still I dont expect I will get an apology.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: TheSnail
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 11:38 AM

Is that the real "Guest Faye" or someone pretending to be "Guest Faye"?


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: GUEST,Faye
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 10:52 AM

Yes, I think that organisers should impose quality control. That's not a criticism though. I am aware that organisers have to allow the crap singers to get up and sing because they come every week and bring their mates and family with them.

OK, I wrote my first post at a time when I was feeling very heated. Sorry about any misunderstandings. I'll cool down before I post next time, promise.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Nick
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 05:23 AM

We probably don't have many 'famous' people visiting us but we have a reasonable number of people who play regular gigs who come and visit our singaround. I think without exception they just fit into our ways. Looked at from the other side it's a bit much to expect them to give you a free performance. From my experiences where we play - and other similar places - most of the 'famous' people just fit in and play and enjoy themselves. I had a lovely evening in Sidmouth this year in the company of a highly respected music person, who didn't know me from Adam, who was there to play his bodhran and have a few beers.

We had a guy from Canada who came and visited earlier this year called Dan Mackinnon (fine singer and player). He was playing a gig in York the following night and came and joined us for a sing and a play and 'got it' immediately. Joined in with the choruses, joined in on the tunes and took his turn as it came round; played one and moved on to the next. From what I gather had a thoroughly enjoyable evening and it probably swelled the audience for his gig the following evening!


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Nick
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 04:57 AM

Ian

The 'I'll start a second one' type (relative of the 'you know this one don't you, Steve?' as they launch into another one of their own favourites) gets dealt with very simply where we have our singaround. Almost in unison he/she will be met with about half a dozen plus people going "whooaa, hold on a second that's not how we do things here" and life continues along as we want it to be. United we stand etc etc And at the end of each time round the room we make sure that anyone who has been missed or just come in can tag on the end.

Melissa

Why can't people be ready? Search me. It's a complete mystery. It's a difficult concept to grasp isn't it, this "have a go after the person on your right has gone" thing?
Personally I like music to fill the evening rather than an evening of conversation interspersed with occasional music which battles against the well of noise that builds up when the music stops, but that's just me. A typical evening probably sees us get through 40 or 50 tunes and songs so I do like to keep things moving. Hate raffles which get in the way (surely it's easier to stick a quid in a bucket?) and carry on playing tunes through the food...


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Melissa
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 04:23 AM

That's my basic rant, Tom..I like to call it "This is Bad Advertising!"


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 04:19 AM

"Anyway, does us good to have a real rant occasionally - before we're sent off to bed..."

Hi Will - yes it probably does an individual good to have a rant, but it doesn't do us as a group much good, at least not when that rant rudely attacks other people's innocently held beliefs, or seeks to deny them some basic rights and freedoms.

I fear Melissa is in a minority, not in her revulsion at some of the things she reads here, but in her willingness to stay around long enough to tell us about it.

The internet may be all you say it is, but as you correctly say 99% of people involved in the music championed here are charming, inoffensive, reasonable, polite and broad-minded in real life.

Given the general state of things today, it would be good if people who care about this music could try to remember that whenever they drop into their chairs in front of the glowing screen.

"Hangman stay your hand..."

Tom


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Melissa
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 03:58 AM

Not yet, but I'm still thinking about it.
I might just try biting out one to start with..to sort of see how well it goes.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 03:56 AM

Melissa:
I (mostly) agree Will...can you guess what my rant is?

This forum, I would guess... by the way - have you bitten your own eyes out yet?

Now THAT would be a show-stopper. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Sooz
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 03:54 AM

We paid a visit to Louth Folk Club last night and were surprised to find the room already full when we arrived about half an hour before the start time. We had a cracking (if crowded) night.
The club was forced to find a new venue at short notice recently and on the first night a few of the pub regulars poked their noses around the door to see what was going on. They have been to every club night since!


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 03:49 AM

Or before the nurse comes.........


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Melissa
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 03:49 AM

I (mostly) agree Will...can you guess what my rant is?


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 03:44 AM

Hi Melissa - it's always remembering that this is the internet - not real life! Many discussions forums are disputatious - many so much more than this - and one of the effects of cyberspace communication is that people are far more outspoken with each other than they perhaps would be in real life.

The fact is that many people in the folk/traditional world are passionate about what they do and what they believe in, and will defend their position vehemently - even to the point of personal rudeness - and you need a bit of passion sometimes. I've never yet been to a folk/traditional, be it a club, simgaround or session where I wasn't welcomed and made to feel at home - that's real life.

Anyway, does us good to have a real rant occasionally - before we're sent off to bed...


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Melissa
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 10:29 PM

Ian:
Why can't the next person be primed and ready to start their song immediately when the too-long-turn guy finishes his first one..jumping before he has a chance to begin another?


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 10:15 PM

FolkieDave

"I am not sure which "well-known singers" you have around you way - but...."

You're probably right in the vast majority of cases with well known singers.

The problem more likely stems from organizers who knew Johnny Famous was around - and said "Darling come along and sing for us any time you want". Johnny perhaps gets his parachute spot in all innocence (but of course with an 'oven ready' Resident's guitar neatly placed in his hands at an appropriate moment).

Where a club is run by a status driven clique then its going to happen more often; where they're trying to peck their way up the folk ladder - gaining favours and kudos wherever they can.

Last point whilst here!: another stunt to watch out for. He who fancies himself sits in the circle at the singaround - has his song - then launches straight into a second one. It's more aggro than its worth to stop him and get the next listed singer started - so he gets away with it.

Any answers to this except miss him out completely next time?

Ian Fyvie


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 07:36 PM

Hi Melissa,
I agree that if you just judge by these threads it sounds like the entire folk world is rotten, but that isn't the case. I have visited several folk clubs in the UK, both as a performer and as a 'punter'. The atmosphere has always been welcoming, the standard of performance in the floor spots varied but I can't recall any evening when I didn't hear singers I enjoyed. On occasions where I called the organizers ahead of time and said I was a visiting American folkie they invariably and graciously offered me a floor spot. Turning up as a stranger I was always warmly welcomed and I enjoyed every folk club I went to or performed at. I think there is a lot of venting going on in this thread and you're hearing about everybody's 'issues', but if you were to attend a folk club you probably wouldn't run into any of that. On the contrary at most of the folk clubs there seemed to be a lot of camaraderie and fellowship. A great deal of hard work goes into organizing a folk club. Not all organizers are perfect but I really think most of them make a concerted effort to provide great entertainment at a reasonable price for club members and anybody else who wants to drop in and pay the modest admission fee. They aren't in it for the money and I sincerely doubt that the performers are either - there really isn't a lot of money to be made on the folk club circuit. There's a good side to folk clubs too. I wouldn't stay away from folk clubs or venues based on these discussions.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 07:09 PM

I've just come home from one of my regular "BULLSESSIONS" at the Bull in Snodland.

We had a mix of performers ranging from twenty to myself at sixty seven.

We had singer songwriters with material to make any folk club organiser want to hear more. We had traditional folk, sixties and seventies contemporary, and newly composed, in roughly even measure.

It was the best evening we have had, BAR NONE.

Folk clubs dying?.....B*****ks.

Our audience tonight (non singing) was in the region of thirty, most of whom had to stand all evening, due to limited space.

They loved all that we did INCLUDING TRADITIONAL MUSIC, and in fact we gained a new traditional singer who surprised us all, because he is a regular who has never performed in public before, but realised tonight that he WOULD be welcomed.

INCLUSIVITY works!!

Try it
Don T.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Melissa
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 06:46 PM

nah, I'm not shocked.
I just can't figure out why anyone would like being involved in something that's populated by such obnoxiousness..and if the repetitive threads here are in any way an accurate reflection of the way things are, I just don't see the charm.

I've spent plenty time around theatre folk. The competitive crap there made sense because there are limited parts available and they didn't pretend to hide their egotistic strutting and they didn't point hateful fingers at their audience to blame them for bad productions.
Music is not limited..there's enough for all of us.
Theatre is competitive.
Music can be cooperative.

Sneering with superiority at organizers, performers, audience and such doesn't shock me..it revolts me.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: GUEST,Avatara
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 06:28 PM

Melissa, this is a digression but you seemed quite shocked! People do need to know the truth; I sincerely wish folk clubs could be all sweetness and light, but what you have to bear in mind is that, like it or not, artistic pursuits are competitive - especially the performing arts. You'll always get the prima donnas and organisers' favourites.
             If you really want to see the feathers fly and dodge the claws then go along to any local drama group. They are ten times worse!

                                                    AVATARA


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 08:33 AM

I `ad a bloke in my cab the other day with a squeezebox.
`e said, "Would you take me up "The Old Maltshovel" please, its Folk Club Night?"
I said, " You got a gig there, then?"
`e said, " Nah. I`m just one of the "punters". We `ave a good old sing-around until they wheel out some tedious "gut-strangler" for the lions share, but it aint so bad. Gives us time to get our breath!!"

What`s `e like??


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 07:41 AM

Tom and all,
Sorry Tom, still have things to say if this thread is still alive in five days time (hope this doesn't spoil your holiday too much 'Tom wearily').
Am off to try out a bit of sun, sea and - malt whiskey (Edinburgh)
All the best to you all,
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Aeola
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 07:32 AM

The beginning of this thread sais that '' the audience seemed to be aged 50 and over!'' I went to my first folk club in 1988 and the audience was exactly as quoted, however, I am still going and funnily enough the audience locally seems to be generally aged 50 and over!! Some things never change.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 03:46 AM

I am not sure which "well-known singers" you have around you way - but around here they are the most unpretentious bunch of lovely people you could ever wish to meet.

And would no more think of wanting to do a spot at a singers club in front of others than they can fly.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 09:55 PM

Howard - re Johnny Famous.

If a well known singer showed up at our singaround, of course we'd want to recognise the fact he may not be in town again for a while and see if we could get them an extra song.

If they arrived late and unannounced however - they'd have to take their chances to a degree with anyone else arriving near the end of Club Night.

It would involve a quick consensus on fitting them in AND ALWAYS with the concent of anyone who had already been lined up to sing soon.

In practice things would work out. But one could imagine a singer rolling up who thought that they were more famous than they are, or had a "superior" attitude which simply generated resentment. Such visitors would be advised to try again next time they're in town - but ring first.

And Snail.....

Best wishes for Saturday's farewell at the Lewes Arms - I'll announce it at our Boxing Day Special Singaround. Your new venue. the Elephant and Castle also has excellent beer I seem to remember!

Ian Fyvie


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: TheSnail
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 07:34 PM

Ian Fyvie

A bit off message but the Lewes Arms folk Club has featured in this thread a lot - and now has to move.

What a shame - it's a fantastic club room with a distinctive shape.


The same has been said of some of the residents.

Last night at The Arms on Saturday 27th December with Matt Quinn and Dogan Mehmet and as many as we can cram in. Let's make it a night to remember. First night at thr Elephant and Castle on 3rd January, an open night ironically on the theme Great Escapes which we honestly chose before we knew any of this.


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: Ian Fyvie
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 02:53 PM

A bit off message but the Lewes Arms folk Club has featured in this thread a lot - and now has to move.

What a shame - it's a fantastic club room with a distinctive shape.

I'd add though that the format at a Fundraiser Event I played support for in the Summer (not connected with the Lewes Arms Folk Club) worked better than the format used by the Club by having the stage at the opposite end of the room to the Club night.

I'm sure The Folk Club also used to have the stage at the wider end in old days.....

Hope the new venue worked well.

Ian Fyvie


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Subject: RE: Why folk clubs are dying
From: The Villan
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 12:30 PM

Spot on Backwoodsman.

Poeple get so upset when I have to tell them we are full. What we do is allow sufficient space for all long legged people. That ios one thing I will not economise on. Poeple need to be able to stretch their legs out.

We are only allowed to have 100 people in the hall and we restrict it to 90 (which includes performers and the people running the event) for safety reasons.

One thing I will never do is have standing.


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