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BS: Election fraud

Raptor 01 Nov 08 - 04:50 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 04:53 PM
Barry Finn 01 Nov 08 - 04:58 PM
Sorcha 01 Nov 08 - 04:58 PM
Sorcha 01 Nov 08 - 04:59 PM
Beer 01 Nov 08 - 05:06 PM
Cluin 01 Nov 08 - 05:13 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 05:14 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 05:19 PM
Cluin 01 Nov 08 - 05:22 PM
Riginslinger 01 Nov 08 - 05:24 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 05:27 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 05:28 PM
Richard Bridge 01 Nov 08 - 05:43 PM
John O'L 01 Nov 08 - 05:43 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 05:52 PM
bobad 01 Nov 08 - 05:59 PM
Riginslinger 01 Nov 08 - 05:59 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 06:02 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 06:03 PM
Cluin 01 Nov 08 - 06:04 PM
Barry Finn 01 Nov 08 - 06:05 PM
Sorcha 01 Nov 08 - 06:05 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 06:07 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 06:08 PM
GUEST,Pat Cooksey. 01 Nov 08 - 06:10 PM
Cluin 01 Nov 08 - 06:14 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 06:17 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 06:20 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 06:22 PM
Sorcha 01 Nov 08 - 06:40 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 06:44 PM
Sorcha 01 Nov 08 - 06:46 PM
Cluin 01 Nov 08 - 06:47 PM
pdq 01 Nov 08 - 07:29 PM
Sawzaw 01 Nov 08 - 07:40 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 07:41 PM
Rapparee 01 Nov 08 - 10:04 PM
Riginslinger 01 Nov 08 - 10:30 PM
Rapparee 01 Nov 08 - 10:32 PM
CarolC 01 Nov 08 - 11:11 PM
Sawzaw 02 Nov 08 - 02:55 AM
CarolC 02 Nov 08 - 03:41 AM
CarolC 02 Nov 08 - 03:53 AM
Sawzaw 02 Nov 08 - 04:20 PM
Little Hawk 02 Nov 08 - 07:43 PM
Amos 02 Nov 08 - 08:10 PM
Sawzaw 02 Nov 08 - 10:57 PM
Amos 03 Nov 08 - 04:14 PM
Amos 03 Nov 08 - 04:16 PM
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Subject: BS: Election fraud
From: Raptor
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 04:50 PM

Click here
More proof the Republickers are crooks


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 04:53 PM

It's already started happening. In West Virginia, people voted for Obama, and their votes flipped over for McCain. And it happened with the other democrats they voted for, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 04:58 PM

Hi Carole
can you link to this story?
I wouldn't be suprised.
Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 04:58 PM

Are we surprised? No. So, WHAT CAN we DO about it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 04:59 PM

Also, how do I find OUT if 'my' vote has been 'flipped'?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Beer
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:06 PM

Wow! that is scarry.
Beer (adrien)


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:13 PM

*sigh*

Said it before. Will say it again.

PAPER BALLOTS!


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:14 PM

http://wvgazette.com/News/200810180380?page=1&build=cache

Just like in previous races, they're trying to blame it on the voters. Hopefully people won't fall for it this time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:19 PM

Some people can see when their votes have flipped, like the people in that article I linked to. But a lot of the software, like the kind in the video in the opening post, will flip it after the polls have closed for the day, when someone pushes the correct buttons. When that happens, there's no way for the voter to know it's been done.

I've even heard of software that will cause a machine with a printout to print out the correct vote, while registering a fraudulent vote.

This is why we've been hearing so much about the "Bradley Effect" from the punditocracy commentariat. To get us ready to accept yet another stolen election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:22 PM

What kinda banana republic you got going on down there anyway? Do you need UN observers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:24 PM

No, we just need to get rid of ACORN!


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:27 PM

Nothing done by any ACORN employees has resulted in any fraudulent votes being cast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:28 PM

And yes, we do need some UN volunteers as well as other international observers. As many as can be sent, please. If the Republicans aren't trying to steal the election, they shouldn't have any fear of being observed by the international community.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:43 PM

Maybe this is why you need an armed militia?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: John O'L
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:43 PM

"No, we just need to get rid of ACORN!"

Riginslingeer has degenerated from an articulate debater into a troll. I have never seen any election anywhere cause so many good people to turn so nasty. I suspect it must have been something like this in Rwanda. Get a grip, America.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:52 PM

We're trying, but it's not easy when the fascists have taken over our election processes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: bobad
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:59 PM

If the Repubs steal this election cities will burn and blood will flow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:59 PM

Joe the Plumber could fix it with a Stiltson wrench!


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:02 PM

Well, they've got concentration camps all ready and waiting for the "cities burning and blood flowing" scenarios. And they've got a private mercenary army (with no loyalties to anyone other than the people who pay them) to enforce their decisions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:03 PM

They've also got legislation that authorized Bush to completely take over the government in the event of anything he deems a crisis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:04 PM

Well, but isn't it all justified in the end? Isn't Obama the Antichrist, as I keep hearing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:05 PM

Joe the plumber couldn't fix a leak & wouldn't know a stiltson wrench from an ajustable, you think he's gonna fix the elections?
He needs to get a license first.
He's not even a real plumber, & you're putting your faith in him? You need to check yourself out before trying to inform other.


Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:05 PM

Carol, document those last 2 statements please?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:07 PM

Rapture me up, baby!


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:08 PM

Ok. Working on the documentation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: GUEST,Pat Cooksey.
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:10 PM

I met two people who voted for Obama early last week, they pressed the Obama button and both times the machine registered them as McCain votes, I saw on CNN in my hotel an official looking guy who said this could happen if a voter put a finger less than dead centre on the line, in the event of a recount there seems no way to verify who voted for whom. I know that in other states the voting system is different, but it seems to me that such a system could possibly be allowed in a democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:14 PM

So even the voter who is pure at heart and says his prayers at night, might find his votes going to McCain?

I wonder if any McCain votes could be mistakenly tallied for Obama.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:17 PM

Concentration Camps

Anyone who can't watch that video on their home computer should go to the library or a friend's house or family member's house to watch it.


National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:20 PM

Yeah, one would think that if it's voter error, some of those errors would also swing in favor of Obama as well, but so far, I haven't heard of any cases where it has happened that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:22 PM

Oh, yeah... and the private mercenary army is Blackwater.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:40 PM

Right...thanks Carol. Only 'god' knows what is going to happen and she ain't telling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:44 PM

That's true. We'll just have to see how it plays out. But I think it's good for people to know about this stuff. I think the people who are doing this stuff are less likely to succeed the more people know about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:46 PM

Well, we can only HOPE that is true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 06:47 PM

People know they should eat properly and get exercise too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: pdq
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 07:29 PM

The initial post is refers to a video on Brasscheck.

For fun, here is another piece on "voter fraud" from the same people.

 
 
"Delores Evans' Death Investigation Continues
 
From Brasscheck  
Just days before she was scheduled to be interviewed about the strange happenings at her poll during the stadium bond election in Bayview Hunters Point (San Francisco), poll inspector Delores Evans died along with six children in her care in a suspicious fire. Before the ashes were cold, Mayor Willie Brown who has never been beyond Third Avenue in that neighborhood in his life, was pointing out the building's "faulty construction" to television camera crews.

I have written about this episode at length before. Here's where the citizen investigations stands now according to Doug Comstock. It's a good account of what researchers who seek simple answers to simple questions routinely encounter:
 
"Terence Hallinan finally released the files he promised to provide in May of '98. Though, because we trusted Hallinan's word, our formal request for the investigation into the mysterious fire that killed Poll Inspector Delores Evans and her six children was not made until 2/3/99. The fire occurred in December of 1997 (prior to her expected deposition about the strange occurrences at her poll #3005, which were subject to a separate investigation requested by Germaine Wong in July 1997). The City Attorney still refuses to release the results of that investigation into voter fraud, but it is known that handwriting experts were called in to examine the Roster.
 
Those who have been following the various promises made by the DA regarding these files already know that he promised again at the CSFN to provide them "when Sunshine is passed by the voters." He didn't. Later, while on the hustings before the Harvey Milk Club he told the assembly in an unmitigated lie "Doug, you know that I have already given you all the files you requested." He hadn't.
 
I don't like it when a "friend" pisses on my backside, but when he tells me, with a straight face, that it is raining--I get pissed.
 
Those of you who follow Sunshine battles will be interested to know that, though the formal request was on February 3, 1999, the call came today (March 6, 2000) from the Fire Department, telling me that the DA had released the files and that I could come down to the Fire Department, with my copy machine, and make copies.
 
I am afraid Jennifer Thomas tried to pull that one on the wrong person. Without considering that she was possibly an intern, I informed her, as one of the contributors to the new Sunshine law, I could confidently say that I would not be hiring a truck and bringing my copy machine to her office, "I will be using your copy machine" (the taxpayer's that is). Nor will I be bringing my own generator to plug it in.
 
Unfortunately I do not expect to find any incriminating evidence in the files, but it will be interesting to see what does not appear there. -Doug"
----
 
In what is possibly a first in American history a judge has ruled, and been passively upheld, that a citizen's petition can be removed from a ballot if the wording on the petition does not suit its opponents.
 
You may recall that over 15,000 San Francisco voters signed a petition calling for the 49er stadium election to be re-held due to numerous irregularities accompanying the vote. In any other situation, this would have been enough to have the matter put on the ballot as a referendum automatically. In fact, only 11,000 voter signatures are required.
 
Willie Brown challenged the petition on the grounds it made dishonest claims and the matter was put before a San Francisco judge (who retired a few weeks after making his decision.) Refusing to hear evidence as to whether the claims were accurate or not, the judge decided that they were indeed inaccurate and therefore the petition was invalid and was barred from appearing on the ballot.
 
This is a first in California history and possibly the first time this has ever happened in American history. The case has been appealed up the the State Supreme Court which just denied a petition to review the case.
 
For people not familiar with the story, the "pro stadium bond" forces outspent the "anti-bond" forces $4,000,000 to $100,000 and enjoyed the benefit of a *weekly* private meeting with the editors of the city's two papers. Going into election day, the "anti bond" forces were ahead 20% in the polls and the early count showed the polls were more or less accurate. In its history, San Francisco voters have never approved a tax payer funded cash grant to a private business for the purposes of building a sports stadium.
 
Late election night, the ballot boxes stopped coming in. The delays - some up to 3 hours - were attributed to "rain caused traffic delays." It didn't rain that night and the city of San Francisco is only 49 square miles. A person can walk from one end of it to the other in less than 3 hours.
 
Reports came in in the scores of ballot boxes with their seals removed, intimidation in the polling places, and blatant electioneering by poll observers. When the votes from the delayed ballot boxes came in the "pro stadium" side ended up winning the election by less than 1%.
 
A few days after the election, the mayor of San Francisco, Willie Brown, directed that a $300,000 grant be made to the business of the man who ran the campaign for Bayview-Hunters Point, the district that supposedly voted 90%+ for the stadium. In one polling place in that district, a review of the polling book showed that many of the voter sign ins had been signed with a single hand. The woman in charge of that polling place died along with five children in her care in a suspicious fire a few months later, the largest number of fire fatalities in San Francisco in over a decade.
 
The last time election fraud was credibly charged in San Francisco, Willie Brown and his close political ally Jim Jones of Jonestown infamy were involved."

{continued at Brasscheck website}


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 07:40 PM

"It's already started happening. In West Virginia, people voted for Obama, and their votes flipped over for McCain. And it happened with the other democrats they voted for, too."

Why?

Did dome dumbass Democrat neglect to calibrate the touch screen voting machine they demanded?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 07:41 PM

Did Democrats demand touch screen voting machines in West Virginia?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 10:04 PM

ELECTION fraud is very uncommon. REGISTRATION fraud is common, but almost always (except in Chicago) caught before the registration is complete.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 10:30 PM

Which would probably explain why Obama advanced onto the political stage in Chicago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 10:32 PM

Hardly. You obviously don't understand Chicago politics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 11:11 PM

Voter fraud is extremely uncommon. Registration fraud is rare but more common than voter fraud. Election fraud is the most common of all of the three. It is exceedingly common and comes in many forms, primarily voter disenfranchisement (millions of voters were illegally purged from voter roles and were disenfranchised in other ways in the last two elections), voter intimidation, and hacked voting machines.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 02:55 AM

Did Republicans demand them?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 03:41 AM

I didn't realize Harlem, New York was in West Virginia. Learn something new every day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 03:53 AM

Oh, tricky tricky. Put a video in there that doesn't have anything to do with the question. I see now that the message the person who posted that video is trying to get across is that Black people are stupid. That's a winning argument if ever I saw one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 04:20 PM

Why inject race into every discussion? Are you a racist?

Thanks for the geography lesson anyway.

Polling stations using electronic voting systems suffered more voting discrepancies than polling stations using traditional paper votes in four recent French elections, according to a study sponsored by two groups campaigning for free and transparent elections.

Chantal Enguehard, a researcher at the University of Nantes who specializes in electronic voting, looked at discrepancies between the number of electors who signed the electoral register to confirm that they voted and the number of votes subsequently counted for each polling station. The study compared discrepancies at 6,427 polling stations using electronic voting machines and 14,624 using paper ballots, in both rounds of the 2007 presidential election and two subsequent elections.

There were discrepancies between the number of signatures and the number of votes at around 29.8% of polling stations studied using electronic voting machines, compared with just 5.3% of those using paper ballots.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:43 PM

A very useful link you provided at the beginning of this thread, Raptor.

The amazing thing is that it is not front page news every day. It should be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Amos
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 08:10 PM

"Counsel for Change: Protect the Vote
by Molly ClaflinSunday November 2 2008 12:41:39 PM

Are you a lawyer? Law student? If so, volunteering for our voter protection team is a great way to have a huge impact on November 4th.

There are efforts out there to suppress the vote, and having attorneys at the polls is going to be vital to making sure that every eligible person gets to cast a ballot, and that every vote counts.

Our attorneys are carefully monitoring the voter rolls, and have already defeated Republican efforts in Michigan to keep voters whose homes have been foreclosed from voting. But with so many first-time voters expected at the polls, we're going to need help.

We want to make sure every eligible American gets to vote on November 4th.   

If you live near a battleground state or have some frequent flyer miles you can cash in, join us this on Tuesday and use your skills to protect the vote.

Remember why you went to law school? Make that J.D. count on Election Day, and make a difference for the next four years.

Go to Counsel for Change to sign up. "

(From the Obama campaign website)


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 10:57 PM

The solution


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:14 PM

An extensive interview on mechanisms of vote fraud perpetrated by the Bush machine.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Election fraud
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:16 PM

Vote EVEN IF THEY SAY YOU CAN'T.

Some advice for new voters,.



AQ


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