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BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN

Bill D 14 Sep 09 - 03:02 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 03:11 PM
pdq 14 Sep 09 - 03:16 PM
Bill D 14 Sep 09 - 03:40 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 03:47 PM
Riginslinger 14 Sep 09 - 04:04 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 04:10 PM
Riginslinger 14 Sep 09 - 09:26 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 09:38 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 09:44 PM
Riginslinger 14 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 10:00 PM
Riginslinger 15 Sep 09 - 07:17 AM
GUEST,beardedbruce 15 Sep 09 - 01:28 PM
CarolC 15 Sep 09 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 15 Sep 09 - 02:55 PM
CarolC 15 Sep 09 - 03:26 PM
beardedbruce 15 Sep 09 - 04:00 PM
beardedbruce 15 Sep 09 - 04:10 PM
CarolC 15 Sep 09 - 05:02 PM
beardedbruce 15 Sep 09 - 05:15 PM
Bill D 15 Sep 09 - 06:09 PM
CarolC 15 Sep 09 - 06:15 PM
Riginslinger 15 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM
CarolC 15 Sep 09 - 09:59 PM
CarolC 15 Sep 09 - 10:01 PM
Sawzaw 16 Sep 09 - 08:23 AM
Sawzaw 17 Sep 09 - 12:55 PM
CarolC 17 Sep 09 - 01:12 PM
CarolC 17 Sep 09 - 01:21 PM
Riginslinger 17 Sep 09 - 01:50 PM
Sawzaw 17 Sep 09 - 10:28 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 Sep 09 - 10:54 PM
DougR 18 Sep 09 - 01:02 AM
Riginslinger 18 Sep 09 - 11:45 AM
pdq 18 Sep 09 - 12:06 PM
CarolC 18 Sep 09 - 01:22 PM
GUEST,beardedbruce 18 Sep 09 - 03:06 PM
CarolC 18 Sep 09 - 03:15 PM
pdq 18 Sep 09 - 03:24 PM
CarolC 18 Sep 09 - 03:53 PM
Riginslinger 18 Sep 09 - 06:03 PM
Riginslinger 18 Sep 09 - 06:33 PM
heric 19 Sep 09 - 12:33 AM
CarolC 19 Sep 09 - 12:45 AM
CarolC 19 Sep 09 - 02:15 AM
heric 19 Sep 09 - 10:52 AM
Sawzaw 19 Sep 09 - 11:04 AM
Sawzaw 19 Sep 09 - 11:10 AM
pdq 19 Sep 09 - 11:23 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 03:02 PM

and in any case, I wonder if 'entrapment' is involved in any of this. I have seen no assertions that ACORN employees had suggested any illegal activity of this sort before Fox invented the idea and went out to see if if they could get someone to bite.
The claim by ACORN is that they pulled these 'stings' for several months before they got any suckers. I'd venture that in almost any large organization, 'some' lower level employees could be found who would say similar things. Remember, there is not even any allegation by FOX that ACORN employees did anything more than offer 'suggestions'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 03:11 PM

I would suggest that they didn't find any "suckers". I would suggest (and the evidence does appear to back this up, and ACORN's attorney is threatening legal action on the basis of this) that what happened was that the people who made the films had tried unsuccessfully for months to find a "sucker" and when they couldn't find any, and in their desperation to smear ACORN, they resorted to falsifying the evidence.

There still is zero proof that things happened the way the makers of the video have tried to make them look, and more than ample evidence that they fabricated the whole thing.

That's not entrapment. That's something else entirely.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 03:16 PM

Oh, now it's supposed to be "doctored tape".

No evidence of that. It's just a lawyer's attempt to deflect the heat with a "plausible explanation". We all saw that trick pulled for eight years under Bill Clinton.

The employes are on ACORN time and are clearly advising the young couple to break the law and to lie on their government loan application.

Sounds like federal laws are being broken here. Is Eric Holder listening? Doubtful that he cares.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 03:40 PM

"The employes are on ACORN time..."

C'mon PDQ... you can do better than THAT to connect a couple stupid people's flaws to the principles of an entire organization....

It seems to me that the doubtful "plausible explanations" started with the rigged 'sting' in the 1st place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 03:47 PM

It's been doctored all along. It is obviously edited and overdubbed. There are blank parts and obvious edits. Until the makers of the film can show that they didn't fabricate the "evidence" they say the video represents, it couldn't possibly stand up in a court of law. And if it can't stand up in a court of law, it can't be taken as fact. It's an obvious fake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 04:04 PM

If the tapes are fake, the people who were fired are probably lining up to file a suit against ACORN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 04:10 PM

No, it looks like there were probably grounds for dismissal. They were counseling people to not be entirely honest. But the part that was probably fabricated (and that the employees themselves say was fabricated) was the assertion that the employees were told that the people they were talking to were a prostitute and a pimp who were going to start a child prostitution ring. That's the part that was fake. And it's pretty obvious when listening to the questions and the responses that the employees were answering different questions than the ones we heard on the video.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 09:26 PM

They've got a third tape now and some other things. My guess is they've had this material for a while, and now they are dribbling it out. They are demanding the government de-fund ACORN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 09:38 PM

Doesn't matter how many tapes they have if they're all fabricated hoaxes. They can have a factory in FOX's basement cranking the SOBs out 24/7, and it still won't make any of it true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 09:44 PM

And if they had any real evidence of the things they are accusing ACORN employees of doing, and they sat on it for several months, they would be accessories to the crime of trafficking in child prostitution. If they knew that ACORN employees were counseling people on how to set up child prostitution rings and they didn't go immediately to the authorities with that information, they would be aiding and abetting that crime themselves.

That's why they are only calling for the government to defund ACORN. They know they haven't got any real evidence of anything like what they are accusing ACORN employees of doing and they know that the authorities would not accept their fabricated "evidence".


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM

I don't think they sat on it for months, but days. What I think they did was to anticipate that ACORN would come out, as they did, and proclaim the first incident to be a fluke and say it could never happen again, and then fire the employees.
             That's exactly what they did, so the journalists came out with a second tape. ACORN floundered around for a while, and then became indignant and threatened to sue. I think the journalists anticipated that as well, and then un-canned a third tape while announcing that they have even more evidence.
             Now it looks like ACORN can either go away quietly, or face the wrath of the additional evidence. The ball is in ACORN's court.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 10:00 PM

More like they're just cranking out the fabrications as fast as they can doctor them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 07:17 AM

Well, I guess we'll see where it goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 01:28 PM

" Exclusive: ACORN Illegally Operating in Maryland

by Mike Roman

Last week, we saw some pretty disturbing activities revealed in the undercover footage from ACORN Housing's Baltimore office. By any measure of conduct, the actions of ACORN's employees should never have happened. It turns out the actions shouldn't have happened for another, very simple, reason: ACORN can't legally operate in the state of Maryland.

According to the following documents, ACORN, Inc.–the parent organization of all things ACORN–forfeited its corporate charter in Maryland in 2006. ACORN Housing forfeited its corporate charter in 2008. Any ACORN office in the state of Maryland is potentially operating illegally.

The Maryland Attorney General has made noise about prosecuting the intrepid journalists who undercovered the misdeeds of ACORN employees. Perhaps he should focus instead on how ACORN was able to operate without a license in his state."


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 01:45 PM

According to what documents? The post above says according to the following documents and then doesn't provide any documents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 02:55 PM

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/11320897/ACORN-Illegally-Operating-in-Maryland


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 03:26 PM

Seems like if that were true, they would have been closed down for business in Maryland in 2006.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 04:00 PM

Did you even look at them?

You MUST be kidding- MD has a Democratic gov. and legislature.


You asked for the documents, I gave them to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 04:10 PM

"CarolC - PM
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 10:00 PM

More like they're just cranking out the fabrications as fast as they can doctor them"





Waiting for you to provide some documentation of your accusation, or a retraction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 05:02 PM

I've already provided documentation for my accusation.


I saw the documents, but I have no way of knowing if they are genuine or not based on what I saw. They aren't on a government website.

The suggestion that having a Democratic governor and legislature would cause them to not enforce the law in the case of ACORN is, however, without any basis in fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 05:15 PM

"CarolC - PM
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 03:47 PM

It's been doctored all along. It is obviously edited and overdubbed. There are blank parts and obvious edits. Until the makers of the film can show that they didn't fabricate the "evidence" they say the video represents, it couldn't possibly stand up in a court of law. And if it can't stand up in a court of law, it can't be taken as fact. It's an obvious fake. "


Not documentation. It is opinion. Until YOU can show that it has been faked, I have to consider it undocumented.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 06:09 PM

Two different issues: whether ACORN is still legally operating in MD, and whether it is 'responsible' for actions some of its employees may or may not have engaged in in several states.

IF it needs to re-do its charter or permits, that should be decided by proper authorities and dealt with. I see that document, but I have no way of knowing what it is about.

The other issue is whether Fox and their 'crew' created a fake story to entrap someone and what the relevance is. It is so obviously an attempt to get something...anything... 'on' ACORN,,,but it sure doesn't look to me like anyone at ACORN is guilty of anything except a couple of employees being stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 06:15 PM

I don't know why anyone would think I would be stupid enough to fall for a tactic like quoting one post of mine in a thread, ignoring all of the others, and try to suggest that that one post proves that I haven't provided any documentation.

On the other hand, its the responsibility of the people who made that video to prove they didn't make it all up by showing all of the footage they took, including the parts that were edited out, and blacked out, and to prove that they didn't overdub the real words that they were speaking to the ACORN workers - that the words we hear in the video are the same words that the ACORN workers are hearing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM

"...its the responsibility of the people who made that video to prove they didn't make it all up by showing... that the words we hear in the video are the same words that the ACORN workers are hearing."

                   I don't think they'll have any trouble doing that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 09:59 PM

I guess that's what we'll find out later one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 10:01 PM

Oops. I guess that's what we'll find out later on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 16 Sep 09 - 08:23 AM

Strike four, the Senate rolls Acorn under da bus: WSJ

On Monday, the U.S. Senate voted 83-7 to strip Acorn, the premier community organizing group on the left, of more than $1.6 million in federal housing money meant to assist low-income people obtain loans and prepare tax forms. This dramatic step followed last Friday's decision by the U.S. Census Bureau to sever its ties with the organization, one of several community groups it was partnering with to conduct the nation's head count.

Both of these actions came after secretly recorded videos involving employees in Acorn's Brooklyn, N.Y., Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Md. and San Bernardino, Calif. offices were televised on Fox News. The videos were recorded by two independent filmmakers who posed as a prostitute and a pimp and said they were planning to import underage women from El Salvador for the sex trade. They asked for and received advice on getting a housing loan and evading federal taxes.

In response, Acorn has so far fired four of the employees seen on the videos. But it claimed the videos were "doctored" and accused critics of a smear campaign and "racist coverage" of the incidents.

Such rhetoric in the past has deflected scrutiny of Acorn tactics, such as street demonstrations and boycotts against banks to force lower credit standards for home loans, which a congressional report found contributed to the subprime loan mess. But now Acorn may be finally running off the rails.

Last week, 11 of its workers were accused by Florida prosecutors of falsifying information on 888 voter registration forms. Last month, Acorn's former Las Vegas, Nev., field director, Christopher Edwards, agreed to testify against the group in a case in which Las Vegas election officials say 48% of the voter registration forms the group turned in were "clearly fraudulent." Acorn itself is charged with 13 counts of illegally using a quota system to compensate workers in an effort to boost the number of registrations. (Acorn has denied wrongdoing in all of these cases.)

A growing number of people once affiliated with Acorn want nothing more to do with the group. Marcel Reid, for example, was one of eight national Acorn board members who were removed last year after demanding an audit of the group's books. She notes that Acorn received $7.4 million in contributions from the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) between 2005 and 2008 but actively fights unionization efforts by its own employees. Ms. Reid also notes that Acorn was sanctioned by the National Labor Relations Board in 2003 for illegally firing workers trying to organize a union.

In 1995, Acorn unsuccessfully sued California to be exempt from the minimum wage, claiming that "the more that Acorn must pay each individual outreach worker . . . the fewer outreach workers it will be able to hire." The decision to file that lawsuit was made by Wade Rathke, who founded Acorn in 1970 and was its long-time leader. He was forced by the group's board to resign last year after it found that he'd engaged in a cover-up of a nearly $1 million embezzlement of Acorn funds by his brother Dale, then the group's chief financial officer.

Mr. Rathke now the chief organizer of a New Orleans-based local of the SEIU, a key Acorn ally is out with a new book, "Citizen Wealth," in which he touts a vision of "maximum eligible participation" by Americans in welfare programs as a way to force radical social change.

Regardless of the wisdom of that vision, it's time to follow the lead of the Census Bureau and cut the government's ties to the highly dubious characters surrounding Acorn. (The group has taken in more than $53 million in direct funding from the federal government since 1994, and substantially more indirectly through states and cities that receive federal block grants.)

Acorn's allies in Congress have long stopped every move to rein it in. Rep. Steve King (R., Iowa), for example, has tried six times to get House floor votes restricting Acorn's access to federal funds but has been blocked by Speaker Nancy Pelosi's hand-picked Rules Committee members. Some Democrats have grumbled. Michigan's John Conyers, chair of the Judiciary Committee, urged a hearing be held on Acorn abuses in March, but later told the Washington Times "the powers that be decided against it."

There is a chance the latest scandals will convince Democrats that Acorn is too toxic a political partner. And President Barack Obama, who once ran a voter-registration program for an Acorn partner (Project Vote) and then worked for Acorn as a lawyer on key cases, has every incentive to distance himself further from the organization.

Former Acorn board members tell me the group has always been confident it will be protected. After the Nevada voter-registration fraud indictment last May, Bonnie Greathouse, Acorn's chief organizer in the state, told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that "we've had bad publicity before" and survived. "People always come forward to our defense. We're just community organizers, just like the president used to be."


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 12:55 PM

Strike 5, The Governator rolls Acorn under da bus:

AP: LOS ANGELESâ€"Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger called on California's attorney general Wednesday to investigate ACORN, the community organizing group that has recently come under fire in videos produced by conservative activists.

The videos show the group's workers offering advice on how to set up prostitution businesses, the activists have said.

Schwarzenegger sent a letter to Attorney General Jerry Brown asking his office to look into ACORN's activities in California, the Los Angeles Times reported.

The advocacy group was criticized after employees were caught on camera appearing to advise a couple posing as a prostitute and pimp to lie about the woman's profession to get housing help.

The most recent video, released Wednesday, was filmed in San Diego. A man appearing to pose as a pimp asks a worker if Tijuana, Mexico, is the best place to bring underage girls into the U.S. The man replies, "yes," saying he has a lot of friends there who can assist.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 01:12 PM

One of the videos shows the worker telling the client that she had shot her husband to death. All of her ex-husbands are still alive and well, according to the local police. LOL She nailed 'em.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 01:21 PM

By the way, investigation is a good thing. But if ACORN is not found to be guilty of all of the things the propaganda machine of the right wing is throwing at them, I expect that the people smearing them in this thread will somehow forget to inform us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 01:50 PM

"Schwarzenegger sent a letter to Attorney General Jerry Brown asking his office to look into ACORN's activities in California,..."


                Does anybody seriously think Jerry Brown will do anything to investigate ACORN?


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 10:28 PM

The House throws Acorn under da bus:

(UPI) The U.S. House, by a wide margin, voted to bar the community organizing group ACORN from receiving any federal funding.

The House, on a 347-75 vote, passed the bill cutting off federal funding to the controversial Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, The Washington Post reported. The organization came under heavy, bipartisan criticism last week after a surreptitiously recorded video emerged in which two conservative activists posed as a prostitute and pimp and received advice from a Baltimore ACORN employee on how to avoid paying taxes.

All House Republicans present for the vote backed the measure, as well as 172 Democrats. Seventy-five Democrats opposed the measure.

The Senate earlier this week passed a bill, 83-7, to bar ACORN from receiving federal housing grants from the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Post reported. Officials said the upper chamber is considering a total ban similar to the measure passed by the House.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 09 - 10:54 PM

I wonder how many ACORN representatives showed these folks the door before they found a few bad apples? I'm coming into the conversation late, but it's clear that the GOP is working now to try to minimize Obama's grass roots support early to hamper him at re-election time.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: DougR
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 01:02 AM

Based on recent reports, I would say, Alice, that the "truth" about ACORN has finally been spread.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 11:45 AM

At long last, the mainstream media is finally getting around to the issue of recognizing the many mortgages that were issued to illegal immigrants. It turns out that ACORN was in the middle of that too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 12:06 PM

Some investigative reporters are suggesting that ACORN is the umbrella organization for about 300 Left-leaning groups and are (were) in line for over 8 billion dollars in next year's budget (starting 1 OCT this year).

The hidden inter-related control of so many qustional groups would make Meyer Lansky proud.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 01:22 PM

Just because they're left-leaning doesn't make them questionable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 03:06 PM

Just because they're left-leaning doesn't make them immune from questions, either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 03:15 PM

I never said they should be immune from questions. But people shouldn't be drawing conclusions before the questions are even asked, much less answered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 03:24 PM

"...people shouldn't be drawing conclusions before the questions are even asked, much less answered..." CarolC

How glib.

Perhaps the same standards should have been used for the last ten years concerning the false accusations made against a host of non-Democrats?


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 03:53 PM

Oh, definitely. More questions should definitely have been asked, and LOTS more things investigated. No-one will get any disagreement from me on that point. Fortunately, Attorney General Holder is starting to correct this oversight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 06:03 PM

What's interesting is the way the journalists set this up. For instance, it doesn't really bother me that somebody proposes to run a prostitution ring, but it really bothers me that they would bring illegal aliens in from Honduras to do it.

            They insult the sensiblities of a much larger group of people that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Sep 09 - 06:33 PM

And then stating that the girls would be underaged enraged a whole different set of people, probably a lot of women.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: heric
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 12:33 AM

LMFAO!! I just came to this issue today.

Have you watched the Baltimore videos? It doesn't MATTER what anyone else said.

And ACORN brass is permitting ACORN legal to threaten lawsuits for not obtaining permission to record them counseling crime! There's your "officials." OMG


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 12:45 AM

I watched/heard it when the story first broke, but didn't pay enough attention to notice if it had been edited. All of the articles I read about it while it was first breaking on that first day (in the mainstream press) said that the tape had been doctored and edited, and I didn't bother to go back and watch it again to make sure. Considering all of the lies that FOX News has been telling about ACORN for years, I consider it perfectly reasonable expect them to be lying now. But I will go back and watch it again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 02:15 AM

Apparently the House has not yet defunded ACORN. The bill it is attached to hasn't been passed yet, and the amendment has still has to make it through the conference committee. And there is a rather big problem with the amendment. It's unconstitutional...


WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Congressman Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), Chair of the Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, denounced a Republican Amendment adopted by the House of Representatives to deny all federal funds to ACORN as blatantly unconstitutional and a threat to unpopular organizations everywhere. The Republican initiative, entitled the Defund ACORN Act, singles out a specific organization by name for exclusion from participating in any federal program, in direct violation of the Constitution's prohibition against Bills of Attainder.

"Today's Republican Amendment is in blatant violation of the Constitution's prohibition against Bills of Attainder," said Nadler. "Congress must not be in the business of punishing individual organizations or people without trial, and that's what this Amendment does. Whatever one may think of an organization, the Constitution's clear ban on Bills of Attainder is there for the protection of all of our liberties."

The Supreme Court, in decisions dating back to the Civil War era, has held that the Constitution prohibits all legislative acts, "no matter what their form, that apply either to named individuals or to easily ascertainable members of a group in such a way as to inflict punishment on them without a judicial trial…." During the McCarthy era, for example, Congress enacted legislation prohibiting the use of funds to pay the salaries of three federal employees who Congress deemed subversive. The Supreme Court ruled this legislation unconstitutional as a Bill of Attainder.

This Amendment, in addition to being clearly unconstitutional, sets a dangerous precedent of Congress punishing politically disfavored groups without any due process.

As Chair of the Judiciary Subcommittee charged with defending the Constitution, Nadler spoke out on the House floor against the Republican Amendment, delivering the following statement:

"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A little while ago, the House passed an amendment to the bill that we were considering that says no contract or federal funds may ever go to ACORN, a named organization, or to any individual or organization affiliated with ACORN. Unfortunately, this was done in the spirit of the moment and nobody had the opportunity to point out that this is a flat violation of the Constitution, constituting a Bill of Attainder. The Constitution says that Congress shall never pass a Bill of Attainder. Bills of Attainder, no matter what their form, apply either to a named individual or to easily ascertainable members of a group, to inflict punishment. That's exactly what this amendment does.

"It may be that ACORN is guilty of various infractions, and, if so, it ought to be vetted, or maybe sanctioned, by the appropriate administrative agency or by the judiciary. Congress must not be in the business of punishing individual organizations or people without trial.

"That's what this Amendment did. It is flatly prohibited by the Constitution, and once we ignore the Constitution we ignore constitutional principles. Whatever one may think of the subject matter or the organization, the Constitution and the ban on Bills of Attainder are there for the protection of all of our liberties. It is unfortunate that we passed this, and I hope it is removed in the conference committee."

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny08_nadler/Acorn091709.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: heric
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 10:52 AM

Ouch. I would think that receipt of federal funds is a privilege not a right, absent discrimination, so that they could refuse to allocate funds and even rescind authorization. But to revoke any right to apply for funding for all time does seem hysterical and unprofessional. You'd think these folk would know their jobs better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:04 AM

The organization mobilized a get-out-the-vote effort to support Obama's presidential bid last year, but it was tainted when nearly a third of the 1.3 million voters the group registered were rejected.

Last week, authorities in Miami announced the arrests of 11 former registration canvassers on allegations that they had submitted nearly 200 falsified forms.

A preliminary hearing is scheduled for this month in Nevada, where state prosecutors have accused ACORN and two former top officials of using an illegal incentive system to motivate people registering voters just before the 2008 presidential election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:10 AM

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs called the conduct of some of the organization's employees "indefensible."

"The administration takes accountability extremely seriously," he said. The U.S. Census Bureau's decision to sever ties to the group reflects that, he added, with their view that the group "could not meet the bureau's goal of achieving a fair and accurate count in 2010."


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 19 Sep 09 - 11:23 AM

"Guess which left-wing group is at the center of the worst case of voter-registration fraud in Washington state history? Yep, you guessed it: ACORN. The same ACORN tied to massive voter fraud in Missouri. And Ohio. And 12 other states.

Here's the Washington state scoop via Seattle's KOMO TV: "King County prosecutors filed felony charges Thursday against seven people in what a top official described as the worst case of voter-registration fraud in state history, while the organization they worked for agreed to keep a better eye on its employees and pay $25,000 to defray costs of the investigation. The seven submitted about 1,800 registration cards last fall on behalf of the liberal Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, which had hired them at $8 an hour to sign people up to vote, according to charging documents filed in Superior Court."

Prosecutors didn't sugercoat the fraud: "This was an act of vandalism upon the voter rolls of King County," said Dan Satterberg, the interim King County prosecutor. But officials tried to give ACORN some benefit of the doubt, noting that the defendants were motivated by financial gain rather than intentions of sabotaging the election.

However, in interviews with King County Sheriff's Detective Chris Johnson, several of the defendants – while freely admitting they forged the forms – insisted that they had been told ACORN would shut down their office in Tacoma if they didn't improve their numbers, Johnson wrote in a probable cause statement.

One, Ryan Olson, said another worker in the office told him "do what you have to do" to turn in more cards.

ACORN's oversight of the workers was virtually nonexistent – to the extent that civil charges could have been warranted, Satterberg said.

In a settlement agreement announced Thursday, ACORN, which cooperated with the investigation, agreed to pay $25,000 and to make improvements in its management, training and oversight of suspect voter registrations throughout the state."


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