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BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN

Riginslinger 10 Sep 09 - 09:50 PM
Donuel 10 Sep 09 - 09:59 PM
Riginslinger 10 Sep 09 - 10:01 PM
fumblefingers 10 Sep 09 - 11:26 PM
CarolC 11 Sep 09 - 01:08 AM
Riginslinger 11 Sep 09 - 07:47 AM
CarolC 11 Sep 09 - 11:36 AM
CarolC 11 Sep 09 - 11:39 AM
Bill D 11 Sep 09 - 01:48 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 06:40 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 06:45 PM
artbrooks 11 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 07:26 PM
CarolC 11 Sep 09 - 07:50 PM
Greg F. 11 Sep 09 - 09:31 PM
Bill D 11 Sep 09 - 09:44 PM
Riginslinger 11 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM
Riginslinger 11 Sep 09 - 09:57 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 10:47 PM
Peace 11 Sep 09 - 11:11 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 11:15 PM
Peace 11 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM
Sawzaw 11 Sep 09 - 11:23 PM
CarolC 12 Sep 09 - 04:57 AM
Riginslinger 12 Sep 09 - 08:49 AM
Greg F. 12 Sep 09 - 09:26 AM
Sawzaw 12 Sep 09 - 11:07 AM
CarolC 12 Sep 09 - 11:13 AM
Sawzaw 12 Sep 09 - 11:56 AM
Bill D 12 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM
Greg F. 12 Sep 09 - 01:23 PM
Riginslinger 12 Sep 09 - 02:16 PM
CarolC 12 Sep 09 - 02:39 PM
Riginslinger 12 Sep 09 - 05:53 PM
Bobert 12 Sep 09 - 06:08 PM
Sawzaw 13 Sep 09 - 12:14 AM
CarolC 13 Sep 09 - 12:38 AM
Riginslinger 13 Sep 09 - 08:48 AM
CarolC 13 Sep 09 - 04:08 PM
Riginslinger 13 Sep 09 - 04:13 PM
CarolC 13 Sep 09 - 04:17 PM
Riginslinger 13 Sep 09 - 09:03 PM
CarolC 13 Sep 09 - 10:15 PM
Sawzaw 14 Sep 09 - 01:44 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 01:55 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 02:12 PM
Bill D 14 Sep 09 - 02:14 PM
pdq 14 Sep 09 - 02:34 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 02:39 PM
CarolC 14 Sep 09 - 02:48 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:50 PM

So now I see that Sean Hannity has video-tape of an ACORN officials helping some people set up a prostitution ring for underaged girls for El Salvador. Subsequently, ACORN fires the officials involved. Hannity says this is the end of ACORN.

               Aside from that, it kind of gives a bad name to community organizing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:59 PM

Indeed ACORN has criminal members. SOme which have aided or abbetted criminal activity and some who actively broken a law or laws.

Now lets use the same fine tooth comb on the military.

Or religious eveangelists.

Or you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 10:01 PM

Yes, please, use it on religious evangelists. The sooner we could get rid of those slime-balls the better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: fumblefingers
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 11:26 PM

Why don't we stay on the subject--ACORN


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 01:08 AM

According to the report I just now read, the tape was edited and goes black in some areas. The report said that ACORN's spokesman isn't going to accept it as evidence of anything until he sees the whole tape.

He also said that these two FOX employees had tried to pull this same scam at other ACORN offices and failed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:47 AM

It probably only has to work once!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:36 AM

Yes, and it may not have even worked that many times. We'll see when they release the whole tape. And if they don't, we'll know that their lack of success led them to fake it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:39 AM

Actually, only working once is indicative of nothing at all.

If they try to pull it on many other offices with no success, and they succeed in only one location, what that means is that it's not a problem with ACORN, but rather a problem with two people employed by ACORN. Many companies and agencies that are good companies and agencies have people in them who do bad things that are not indicative of the legitimacy or the lack of it of those companies and agencies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 01:48 PM

"...video-tape of an ACORN officials..."

actually, they weren't "officials", they were minor employees who were fired immediately. It's sad that people will stoop to such sleazy games, but it's even sadder that critics will USE such examples to attempt to tarnish the entire organization.


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Subject: BS: Census Rolls Acorn Under da Bus
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 06:40 PM

After the revelation of a second Acorn office that gives advice on running whorehouses with underage girls and income tax evasion, The Census Bureau has severed all ties.

Harrumph.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jIhAM0M_KmmLaHqhwTafQag4nNdQD9ALCUJO0
    Note that threads were combined, since there already was an active Acorn thread.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 06:45 PM

Good news for all Acorn lovers:

Only 2 of 7 Acorn offices gave advice on how to operate a whorehouse with underage girls and how to avoid paying income taxes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM

Well, the AP news report says that a Fox sting got 2 employees in one office to give tax advice to an alleged pimp and prostitute.   That would be one incident in one of Acorn's 1200 chapters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:26 PM

"a Fox sting" Bullshit


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:50 PM

We don't know that yet. We have yet to see the whole tape.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:31 PM

If ya put the veracity of the Associated Press up against that of Faux, 'scuse me, FOX news, well..............


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:44 PM

One ACORN office reported the attempt to police...and despite what SAWZAW says, no "office" cooperated, only a couple of stupid lower level employees.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM

Well, Hannity has found a second office to fall for it, and now he's determined to cut off all federal funding for ACORN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Census Rolls Acorn Under da Bus
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:57 PM

They should not have been involved in the census to begin with. They've proven they can't be trusted from the time of the election.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:47 PM

Keep beating the shit out of those straw men. That way you won't have to admit to the corruption within Acorn.

AP:
LAS VEGAS — A former Las Vegas director for a political advocacy group accused of illegally paying canvassers to register voters during last year's presidential campaign has pleaded guilty to a reduced charge and agreed to testify against the group and another employee.

Christopher Edwards pleaded guilty this week to two gross misdemeanor counts of conspiracy to commit the crime of compensation for registration of voters. He agreed to testify against the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, known as ACORN, and Amy Busefink, a former regional voter registration director.

The case threatens the group's ability to operate in Nevada, with the possibility that the group could have its status as a nonprofit corporation revoked, said Conrad Hafen, chief deputy attorney general for Nevada.

Hafen's said Edwards' testimony strengthens the state's case against ACORN and Busefink.

"It adds to the evidence that we already have," Hafen said Wednesday. "It makes a strong case that much stronger."

Busefink's lawyer, Kevin Stolworthy, said she plans to fight the charges. A lawyer for ACORN did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment from The Associated Press.

ACORN spokesman Brian Kettenring called the plea deal a "desperate attempt to get publicity and grab headlines."

"The prosecution is clearly willing to cut a deal with an admitted criminal," Kettenring said. "Shame on them."

Prosecutors said in court documents that Edwards, Busefink and ACORN created a bonus incentive program that paid canvassers an extra $5 per shift if they turned in at least 21 voter registration cards at the end of the day. Prosecutors said violates state laws that prevent a system that pays workers based on the number of registrations they turn in.

Stolworthy said Busefink, now living in Seminole, Fla., told Edwards not to use the so-called "blackjack" plan but he did anyway.

"When she found out about it she told him to stop," Stolworthy said. "This guy was the instigator of this and the person who dreamed it up and they're giving him a break to go after others who told him not to do it."

Edwards is scheduled to be sentenced Nov. 17. Under the plea deal, prosecutors are recommending that he receive informal probation, pay a $500 fine and perform 16 hours of community service.

The case is the result of an investigation that began last year into the group that works to get low-income people to vote.

In October, the secretary of state's office raided an ACORN office in Las Vegas after complaints surfaced that the group was turning in bogus voter registration forms. Secretary of State Ross Miller said at the time that some of the registrations included forms for football stars Tony Romo, Terrell Owens and the Dallas Cowboys starting lineup.

ACORN officials at the time said they separated and identified registrations that they thought were fraudulent when they turned them into the Clark County registrar. The group said the law prevented them from withholding registrations they thought were fake.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5isR8VrIHeni2GcKFAiy0OA1WG5kAD9A6AUB00


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:11 PM

The two workers in Florida were found and turned in by ACORN itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:15 PM

Funny thing that this article in the Baltimore Sun does not mention Fox News or Hannity.

ACORN, prostitution and tax evasion

Want to confirm all the negative impressions you may have gotten about ACORN from its many critics? Watch this video.

Yes, taped with a hidden camera, two Baltimore ACORN workers give advice to a man and a woman identifying themselves as a pimp and a prostitute on how to evade the authorities and cheat on their taxes, including how to claim 13 underage El Salvadoran sex slaves as dependents. At no point in the video do the ACORN workers bat an eyelash or give any impression that they find this unusual.

Once the video became public, ACORN promptly fired the two workers, though it's hard to know how seriously to take the organization's reaction. Baltimore ACORN board chairman Sonja Merchant-Jones told WJZ-TV that "We've investigated and we found nothing that they did to be illegal. Absolutely zero." Really? Advising someone to claim girls trafficked into the country illegally as sex workers as dependents on her tax returns?

At the end of the day, though, what does this prove? Certainly that these two ACORN workers displayed astonishing stupidity. But does it show that ACORN is as lawless as its critics contend? It's important to note that the two filmmakers, Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe, were turned away when they tried the same stunt in other cities. If they wanted to prove something about the organization as a whole, they might have tried a less salacious scenario. Of course, that would have been much less likely to rocket them to YouTube and Fox News stardom.

UPDATE: There's a second video out now of the same pair doing the same thing at the Washington ACORN office. In this case, the workers suggest a way that Ms. Giles could set up a phony business to conceal the nature of her earnings.

SECOND UPDATE: For those of you criticizing me for defending ACORN here, I'd like to say the existence of the second video has erased what little benefit of the doubt I was willing to extend before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM

Sorry. That should have read "11 workers".


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:23 PM

For all the Acornistas:

Liens on ACORN in New Orleans


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 04:57 AM

But if the people making the videos are editing them to falsely portray the actions of the ACORN workers, then it really doesn't matter how many offices they appear to show this kind of activity. And we don't know yet whether or not that is what they did. There has been obvious editing and there are areas where the film goes black. So far I have not seen any legitimate explanation for this, and editing a film of this sort does make it look suspicious.

Until we know what editing was done and how faithful the end result was to what actually happened, we won't know whether or not anyone did anything illegal. If the videos couldn't stand up in a court of law, they also shouldn't stand up in the court of public opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 08:49 AM

Probably the people who originally founded ACORN had all the best of intentions. But the organization seems to be so loosely constructed that anybody and everybody can just drift in and out at will. Some of these players are bound to be bad actors, working for themselves and not for the organization.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 09:26 AM

Yo, Sawz!

You want to rant about whorehouses & prostitution & all that, check into the doings at the C Street House of Rep. Chip Pickering, Sen. John Ensign, & Tim & David Coe of "The Family".

There's something to get upset about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 11:07 AM

The Washington Post:

..Although Barney Frank [avid defender of Acorn] and Gobie differ in some details of their relationship, they agree on the story line. They met on April Fool's Day 1985. The representative answered a classified ad in the Washington Blade, the local gay weekly. "Exceptionally good-looking, personable, muscular athlete is available. Hot bottom plus large endowment equals a good time."

Then in his third term, the 45-year-old representative had not yet stated his homosexuality publicly. He paid Gobie $80 in cash for sex.

Gobie, then 28, was one of many young men "freelancing" in male prostitution. Gobie said he was born in Boston and grew up in a military family. He has felony convictions for possession of cocaine, oral sodomy and production of obscene items involving a juvenile.

Gobie and Frank say they became more friends than sexual partners. Gobie says he attended a bill-signing at the White House, and helped coach and played left field for Frank's team in the Congressional Softball League. "I was the star player," Gobie said.

Frank began to help Gobie financially, paying his attorney and court-ordered psychiatrist. The House member also said he hired Gobie as a personal aide, housekeeper and driver, but Gobie said that was a "cover story" concocted for probation officers.

In late 1985, Gobie says, he began to use Frank's apartment and two other locations for prostitution. Frank knew about the prostitution all along, but it was never explicitly discussed, Gobie says.

"He knew exactly what I was doing," Gobie said. "It was pretty obvious. If he had to come home early {from work}, he would call home to be sure the coast was clear . . . . He was living vicariously through me. He said it was kind of a thrill, and if he had been 20 years younger he might be doing the same thing."

Frank denies that he knew, saying he learned from his landlord and kicked Gobie out in August 1987. Gobie supports this part of Frank's story.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 11:13 AM

Republicans are not in a position to point fingers at anyone for either engaging in Gay sex, or for paying for any kind of sex.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 11:56 AM

So Whom do you claim is pointing a finger at whom?

NYT:

Two prominent national nonprofit groups are reeling from public disclosures that large sums of money were misappropriated in unrelated incidents by an employee and a former employee. The groups, Acorn, one of the country's largest community organizing groups, and the Points of Light Institute, which works to encourage civic activism and volunteering, have dealt with the problems in very different ways.

Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. After Points of Light noticed financial irregularities in early June, it took less than a month for management to alert federal prosecutors, although group officials say they have no clear idea yet what the financial impact may be. A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization's founder, Wade Rathke.

The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group's board members and not to alert law enforcement. Dale Rathke remained on Acorn's payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him.

"We thought it best at the time to protect the organization, as well as to get the funds back into the organization, to deal with it in-house," said Maude Hurd, president of Acorn. "It was a judgment call at the time, and looking back, people can agree or disagree with it, but we did what we thought was right." The amount Dale Rathke embezzled, $948,607.50, was carried as a loan on the books of Citizens Consulting Inc., which provides bookkeeping, accounting and other financial management services to Acorn and many of its affiliated entities.

Wade Rathke said the organization had signed a restitution agreement with his brother in which his family agreed to repay the amount embezzled in exchange for confidentiality.

Wade Rathke stepped down as Acorn's chief organizer on June 2, the same day his brother left, but he remains chief organizer for Acorn International L.L.C.

He said the decision to keep the matter secret was not made to protect his brother but because word of the embezzlement would have put a "weapon" into the hands of enemies of Acorn, a liberal group that is a frequent target of conservatives who object to its often strident advocacy on behalf of low- and moderate-income families and workers.

Wade Rathke said he learned of the problem when an employee of Citizens Consulting alerted him about suspicious credit card transactions. An internal investigation uncovered inappropriate charges on the cards that led back to his brother. Clearly, this was an uncomfortable, conflicting and humiliating situation as far as my family and I were concerned," he said, "and so the real decisions on how to handle it had to be made by others."

The executive director of New York Acorn, Bertha Lewis, who has been named director of an interim management committee set up to run the national group's day-to-day operations, said Dale Rathke was paid about $38,000 a year but that none of that money was used to pay back Acorn.

Instead, she said, the Rathke family has paid Acorn $30,000 a year in restitution since 2001, or a total of $210,000.

A donor has offered to give Acorn the rest of what the Rathkes owe, and an agreement to that effect should be finalized in coming days, Ms. Lewis said.

"Now that this is under our watch, we are putting financial auditors in place, legal counsel in place, a strong management team in place to make sure this organization moves forward for another 38 years," she said. "I will not allow and the board will not allow something like this to happen again."

But the fact that most of the handful of people who did not disclose the fraud when they learned of it eight years ago still work for Acorn or its affiliates concerns many of the group's financial supporters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 12:53 PM

Someone is sure going to a lot of work 'researching' this & other stories about flaws in people who happen to be associated with certain groups.

If one likes that sort of research, and is willing to both dig AND design 'stings', it is possible to create salacious and disreputable scenarios about almost any groups....from the College of Cardinals to the Republican National Committee to the Boy Scouts.

It takes a lot more to actually show that a group as a whole is corrupt or seriously flawed1, but these days they aren't trying to get evidence that would stand serious scrutiny....they only want headlines where they can link one or two examples in the same paragraph, then make insinuations that will be believed by those who want ANY excuse to keep pressure on group "X".

It is nasty politics, but it often does what they want.




1(well, except in the case of the Republican National Committee, maybe...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 01:23 PM

Suggested reading:

Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free by Charles P. Pierce. 2009.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 02:16 PM

"Republicans are not in a position to point fingers at anyone for either engaging in Gay sex, or for paying for any kind of sex."

             No, but when it's "sex" is sticks to the Republicans more, and when it's "crime" it sticks to the Democrats. It seems to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 02:39 PM

Considering all of the coverup activity that The Family is guilty of, for instance covering up a Republican lawmaker's affair with one of his staffers (and the wife of another staffer), by insisting that they both be paid quite a lot of hush money, I would say that the Republicans are not any better than the Democrats in that respect, either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 05:53 PM

Carol, I would agree that Republicans are no better and maybe worse than Democrats. After all, they're all politicians.

               ACORN, on the other hand, could have a meaningful role to play in the public arena if it would tighten up its management and maybe limit itself to things in which it has more experience. Much of the public sees it now as a huge loosely affiliated group controlled by political operatives who are simply in it for what they can get for themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 06:08 PM

I love it!!!

Here a couple of low level punks might or might not have done something as ACORN volunteeers/employees... Who cares???

I mean, let's keep things in some level of perspective here... Look at the number of Repubs who have been caught doin' stuff that the good reverand said not to do, including trying to solicite homosexual sex... Throw in assholes, who BTW would have been shot or arrested had they been lefties, showing up with guns at protests where the president is speaking... Then you have all the lies... Way too many to keep track of... Death squads and death camps and, henny penny, anything else that anyone can think up and what???

A couple ACORN folks might have........

Beam me up... The Repub apologists have had their brains sucked out by aliens and are now operating completely brainless...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 12:14 AM

Next thing ya know, those brainless jerks will be smoking weed and saying Who cares???


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 12:38 AM

The Republicans are targeting ACORN for one reason only. We know they don't give a shit about any of the things they are accusing ACORN of, because they do many of the same and also many worse things themselves. The only reason the Republicans are gunning for ACORN, is because they register a lot of Democratic voters. Because the agenda of the Republicans is so completely detrimental to the well being of the majority of Americans, and to this country, the only way they can get elected is to suppress the votes of those who vote for Democratic candidates. That's it. That's the only reason.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 08:48 AM

Of course, isn't that reason enough. The other side does the same kind of thing every chance it gets. That's the beauty of a two party system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 04:08 PM

The Democrats don't use suppression of votes as a tactic. That tactic doesn't serve them. It only serves the Republicans. The Democrats benefit from large numbers because the majority of people don't benefit from Republican agendas. That's why it is a specifically Republican tactic - republicans don't do as well as the Democrats when there are large voters turnouts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 04:13 PM

I would agree, the Democrats gain from large numbers of people voting, whether those voters are legally in the country, properly registered, or vote in multiple precincts doesn't seem to concern them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 04:17 PM

Whether or not that is true, it has nothing to do with ACORN. However, while there are a lot of accusations of voter fraud in US elections (in particular, those that benefit the Democrats), the vast majority of those accusations are without any basis in fact. There is far more election fraud being engaged in by Republicans, that effects vastly larger numbers of people, than there is people casting votes fraudulently in favor of Democrats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 09:03 PM

Carol - How would you ever prove that? LBJ used to laugh and joke, and prided himslelf on winning elections with fraudulent votes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 10:15 PM

It's not that difficult to prove that voter fraud is extremely rare. Allegations of voter fraud (one person attempting to cast a vote under someone else's name) are made quite a lot, and almost none of them turn out to actually be legitimate cases of voter fraud. They almost always turn out to be cases of human error or two people having the same name and birthdate, or people voting by absentee ballot before the election and then dying between the time they send in their vote and the actual election day.

On the other hand, election fraud, one example of which would be purging the voter rolls illegally as has happened in recent elections, is a real problem and has resulted in large numbers of people being disenfranchised.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 01:44 PM

Third strike for ACORN:

The scandal surrounding the left-wing activist organization ACORN has spread to New York, with employees at its Brooklyn office caught on video helping supposed ladies of the night get loans for their dream houses of ill repute.

Rather than reminding the women that prostitution is dangerous and illegal and advising them to change their careers, counselors at the social-services group shockingly offer suggestions on how they can launder their earnings.

"Honesty is not going to get you the house," a loan counselor at the offices told two activists posing as a mortgage-seeking pimp and prostitute.

"You can't say what you do for a living."

ACORN workers in two other cities, Baltimore and Washington, DC, had already fallen hooker, line and sinker for the hidden-camera sting operation by two conservative activists.

Four ACORN employees have been fired as a result of the earlier videos, and last Friday the Census Bureau severed its ties with the group, whose members had been hired to do canvassing during the 2010 census.

Mayor Bloomberg spoke out on the controversy today.

"Prostitution is illegal in this state and I don't know why they would -- why an organization like ACORN, who's trying to encourage voter turnout and voter registration, why they're getting involved in any of that stuff," Bloomberg said. "But clearly it's not appropriate and they shouldn't have been doing it. Whether they broke a law or not I don't know. You'll have to talk to the legal (authorities)."............


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 01:55 PM

Statement from Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer, ACORN Regarding Recent News Reports

The relentless attacks on ACORN's members, its staff and the policies and positions we promote are unprecedented. An international entertainment conglomerate, disguising itself as a "news" agency (Fox), has expended millions, if not tens of millions of dollars, in their attempt to destroy the largest community organization of Black, Latino, poor and working families in the country. It is not coincidence that the most recent attacks have been launched just when health care reform is gaining traction. It is clear they've had these tapes for months.

We are their Willy Horton for 2009. We are the boogeyman for the right-wing and its echo chambers. If ACORN did not exist, the right-wing would have needed to create us in order to achieve their agenda, their missions, their ideal, retrograde America. This recent scam, which was attempted in San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia to name a few places, had failed for months before the results we've all recently seen. I am appalled and angry; I cannot and I will not defend the actions of the workers depicted in the video, who have since been terminated. But it is clear that the videos are doctored, edited, and in no way the result of the fabricated story being portrayed by conservative activist "filmmaker" O'Keefe and his partner in crime. And, in fact, a crime it was - our lawyers believe a felony - and we will be taking legal action against Fox and their co-conspirators.

We will not be intimidated by this international conglomerate, which has made as its mission the destruction of our organization. ACORN members are committed to the empowerment of their communities - Black, Latino, poor, and working families – at the deepest level. We are an organization committed to halting the foreclosure crisis and keeping people in their homes. We are an organization committed to ensuring quality, affordable health care for every American. We are an organization that will not be stopped in our commitment to our members and our communities...


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 02:12 PM

Letters from Acorn's attorney to Roger Ailes, FOX president...


Dear Mr. Ailes:

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now ("ACORN") has begun a careful investigation into the doctored videotape being played by FOX News, on line and on the air, allegedly showing an ACORN staffer in Baltimore giving dubious tax advice to people claiming to be a pimp and a prostitute.

It is very clear that the questions being asked are a voiceover, placed on the tape by the film maker. The staffer involved claims that the questions she was asked were not the questions asked by the voiceover online. In face, she denies ever giving tax advice to people identifying themselves as a pimp and a prostitute.

These tapes were clearly filmed several months ago. They are not "news"; they are a form of "art". FOX News certainly had time, if it believed that the tapes had news value, to ask ACORN to review the tapes and to comment about their accuracy.

It is ACORN's position, at this time, that the videotape is doctored and that the voiceovers change the real dialogue. We demand, as counsel to ACORN, that FOX cease publication of these tapes unless it can produce proof that the conversations actually took place.


Dear Mr. Ailes:

As a follow-up to my letter of September 10, 2009 concerning FOX News' publication of videotapes purporting to show ACORN staffers giving tax advice to an actor posing as a prostitute.

After looking at the law, it is our conclusion that the filming and broadcast of the conversations at the Baltimore ACORN offices violates (...)10-42(a)(1) of the Courts and Judicial Proceedings Article of the Maryland Code, which makes it unlawful to willfully intercept, endeavor to intercept, or procure any other person to intercept any oral conversation unless all parties to the communication consent. FOX News, the filmmakers, and the producer of the videos have clearly violated this statute. It is also our belief that the tape broadcast today, involving ACORN's Washington, D.C. office, violates (...)23-542 of the D.C. Code in that the conversation was recorded for no purpose other than to cause injury.

ACORN and the women whose conversations were taped have authorized us to commence an action for damages and injunctive relief addressed to FOX News, the producer of the videos, and the filmmakers. We demand, in advance of that litigation, that FOX immediately withdraw the videos from the air and from the internet until a court rules on the lawfulness of the distribution and broadcast of the videos.

(Links to PDFs contained in the ACORN link in my previous post.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 02:14 PM

Go to the page Carol C links to and read the PDF files at the bottom, from ACORN's law firm to Fox News.

You will soon see that there is more to the story.
Fox 'may' have broken the law itself by making ANY videos that all parties did not consent to, and possibly by altering them before broadcast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 02:34 PM

There is a fine line here that some people are blurring.

I believe it is illegal to record voice and conversations. It is not illegal to record images or then all video survaillence
cameras, such as in a banks or convenience stores, would be illegal.

Also, if this is illegal, 60 Minutes has been breaking the same laws for over 40 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 02:39 PM

But doctoring a tape for the purpose of making it look like something happened that didn't, and then using it to defame people certainly is actionable in court.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 02:48 PM

On the other hand, the video contains both images as well as conversation. Surveillance cameras do not record sound. So ACORN may have some grounds for action in that regard as well.


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