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BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN

McGrath of Harlow 30 Oct 08 - 08:32 PM
CarolC 30 Oct 08 - 09:23 PM
Riginslinger 30 Oct 08 - 10:52 PM
Sawzaw 31 Oct 08 - 02:07 AM
Riginslinger 31 Oct 08 - 06:48 AM
GUEST,number 6 13 Nov 08 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,number 6 13 Nov 08 - 08:56 AM
CarolC 13 Nov 08 - 09:17 AM
Ron Davies 13 Nov 08 - 09:19 AM
Ron Davies 13 Nov 08 - 09:20 AM
Riginslinger 13 Nov 08 - 10:13 AM
CarolC 13 Nov 08 - 10:48 AM
GUEST,number 6 13 Nov 08 - 11:09 AM
GUEST,TIA 13 Nov 08 - 11:12 AM
CarolC 13 Nov 08 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,number 6 13 Nov 08 - 11:35 AM
Riginslinger 13 Nov 08 - 11:37 AM
Barry Finn 13 Nov 08 - 12:45 PM
CarolC 13 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Nov 08 - 01:10 PM
Riginslinger 13 Nov 08 - 01:40 PM
CarolC 13 Nov 08 - 03:07 PM
Riginslinger 13 Nov 08 - 03:56 PM
curmudgeon 13 Nov 08 - 04:03 PM
CarolC 13 Nov 08 - 04:14 PM
Riginslinger 13 Nov 08 - 04:24 PM
Riginslinger 13 Nov 08 - 04:25 PM
CarolC 13 Nov 08 - 04:28 PM
pdq 13 Nov 08 - 05:00 PM
CarolC 13 Nov 08 - 05:29 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Nov 08 - 07:12 PM
Riginslinger 13 Nov 08 - 09:08 PM
Joe Offer 14 Nov 08 - 04:35 AM
CarolC 14 Nov 08 - 09:31 AM
Riginslinger 14 Nov 08 - 08:53 PM
CarolC 14 Nov 08 - 09:13 PM
Riginslinger 14 Nov 08 - 09:28 PM
CarolC 14 Nov 08 - 09:45 PM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 07:46 AM
artbrooks 15 Nov 08 - 08:21 AM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 08:39 AM
artbrooks 15 Nov 08 - 09:21 AM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 09:32 AM
CarolC 15 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM
CarolC 15 Nov 08 - 10:49 AM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM
CarolC 15 Nov 08 - 02:06 PM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 03:43 PM
CarolC 15 Nov 08 - 03:50 PM
Riginslinger 15 Nov 08 - 10:22 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 08:32 PM

You really should have been able to do better than that, rig.

Here is what I take to be the ad in question. Very much to the point and effective.

Of course it doesn't say "don't vote for McCain and the Republicans", it just asks people to stop them trying to prevent people entitled to vote from voting, and obviously no one in a democracy should ever try to do that.

If I'd been ACORN I'd have phrased it slightly different - not "John McCain and the Republicans" but perhaps "people in the campaign of John McCain and the Republicans". That sticks to the proved facts. I'd think it more likely that the dirty tricks brigade operate on a deniable nod-and-a-wink basis, rather than relying on direct orders from the top.

But then McCain's very direct accusations against ACORN did rather smack of potential libel, so perhaps that's how you do it in the States. And if McCain and Co haven't been doing everything they can to stop the kind of voter suppression and exclusion that has been reported, which appears to have been the case, that's essentially the same as ordering it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:23 PM

Yup. That ad doesn't tell anyone how to vote. It tells people who are being disenfranchised to stand up for their right to vote. It's a good ad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:52 PM

It's all about funding at this point. If ACORN gets any, there'll be a revolution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 02:07 AM

Lawsuit Adds to Turmoil for Community Group New York Times

In the wake of an embezzlement scandal that rocked the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or Acorn, two of its board members are seeking a court order to force it to hand over financial documents. They also are seeking to sever what they describe as continuing ties between Acorn and its founder, Wade Rathke, who resigned after it became public this summer that his brother had embezzled almost $1 million from the organization eight years ago. They contend that Mr. Rathke continues to direct the staff and expenditures.

"Acorn will suffer irreparable harm if the defendants are not restrained from contact with employees, expending and receiving, destroying or prohibiting the review of accounting and other data necessary to fulfill the fiduciary responsibility of the interim management committee," the board members, Marcel Reid and Karen Inman, stated in the petition. Both serve on a committee established to lead Acorn. The suit cites their concerns that money is being spent improperly and that important documents are being destroyed. It was filed on behalf of the entire 51-member board, but Acorn executives and some board members say Ms. Reid and Ms. Inman had no authority to file the suit or to claim to represent the board.

Acorn contends that Ms. Reid and Ms. Inman are trying to engineer a takeover, and on Tuesday, it demanded that the petition be withdrawn. "We found ourselves after the fact having filed a lawsuit against ourselves," said the Rev. Gloria Swieringa, a board member who leads the Maryland affiliate. "It was not authorized nor did we know anything about it until this firestorm over it erupted."

The suit is a sign of the turmoil that has rocked Acorn since the embezzlement by Dale Rathke, Wade Rathke's brother, was revealed to the board in June. The embezzlement, which Acorn said involved $948,607.50, was discovered in 2000 but concealed by senior executives until a whistle-blower told a foundation leader about it in May.

Wade Rathke was forced to step down as chief organizer, the top executive position, but he remained the chief organizer of Acorn International, which shares offices in Acorn's headquarters in New Orleans. The Rathke family pledged to repay Acorn.

"Even though his relationship with Acorn has been terminated," the petition says of Wade Rathke, "he continues to meet with staff members regarding this" — the embezzlement — "and other governance issues which impeded the ability of the interim management committee to perform its function."

Bertha Lewis, who was appointed interim chief organizer when Mr. Rathke stepped down, said the lawsuit was unnecessary. But Ms. Lewis echoed concerns about Mr. Rathke's continued involvement, saying Acorn had asked him to leave its offices. "Mr. Rathke stubbornly refuses to do that, so he sort of haunts that office, tries to talk to folks doing their work," she said.

Mr. Rathke said he had no role in managing Acorn. "I was with the organization for 38 years, and there are many people I hired and supervised, and I have great relationships with them," he said. "I haven't been involved in supervising them. Are they saying that simply because I breathe, I exist, they have a problem?" The suit put the extent of Dale Rathke's embezzlement at "an amount that may exceed one million dollars," more than the amount disclosed this summer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 06:48 AM

Well, hopefully that will be the end of ACORN!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 08:52 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 08:56 AM

Well ... the elections over .. but the issue continues.

Catholic Church cuts off ACORN funding

I really don't think this is a GOP conspiracy, or even a Dem conspiracy at that.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:17 AM

That's kind of not surprising since ACORN has been helping to register voters who are more likely to vote for the candidates that the Catholic Church doesn't want elected. In fact, to me, it looks like it was inevitable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:19 AM

" In nearly every case that has been reported, it was ACORN who discovered the bad forms"--and reported them to the authorities.   Sounds like there must be more to this than the typical knee-jerk anti-ACORN view we've seen from some posters.

This sounds like half the story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:20 AM

Carol has a good point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 10:13 AM

The story I read that had to do with the Catholic Church cutting them off had more to do with the people in charge of the organization stealing money than anything to do with ACORN's involvement in illegal voting and registration.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 10:48 AM

The story I read (which is the one that was posted) said this...

However, he said, the ban on donations to ACORN won't be lifted "until and unless it is clear that CCHD funds will not go to an organization that has engaged in unlawful activities or voter registration fraud."

We already know that ACORN has not engaged in any unlawful activities or voter registration fraud, so I think the Catholic Church is just using that as cover for something they wanted to do anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:09 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Roman Catholics as a whole supported Obama .... they object to the Dem's stand on abortion ... but support their policy in regards to the ending of the war, their stand on immigration, their stand on worker's rights, health care, and the Dems' commitment to the poor, and their stand on the environment etc.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:12 AM

You would think that all the other concerns that match Catholic doctrine would matter...but they don't. The official Catholic position is anti-Obama. Abortion outweighs everything else combined.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:23 AM

The Catholic Church hierarchy was against Obama because he is pro-choice. There were certainly Catholics who ignored what the church hierarchy was telling them, but the church itself says Catholics can't vote for pro-choice candidates and be good Catholics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:35 AM

ok ... thamks guys for the info .... maybe that explains it.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:37 AM

This from the article posted:


The Catholic Campaign for Human Development froze its contributions to the group in June amid allegations that Dale Rathke, the brother of ACORN founder Wade Rathke, had embezzled nearly $1 million.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:45 PM

More Catholic voted for Obama than not, it's the Church that's against Obama not the members. It seems as if the Church is not in step with the members in the same way that our Government for the past 8 yrs has not been in step with it's citizens. Maybe the chruch should become more democratic & allow it's members to vote on who should become Bishops, Cardnails Pope (he,he) rather than electing from within their own self interests.

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM

The Church may have banned donations to ACORN after hearing about the embezzlement, but they said the ban on donations to ACORN won't be lifted "'until and unless it is clear that CCHD funds will not go to an organization that has engaged in unlawful activities or voter registration fraud'", and "the church has "severed ties" with ACORN and there are no plans for further discussion at this time".

Considering the fact that it has already been established that ACORN has not engaged in any unlawful activities or voter registration fraud, the fact that the church is pretending that this is not the case suggests to me that they have a different reason for their ban on donations to ACORN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:10 PM

The concern seems to be about worries about embezzlement and possible failure to be careful enough about avoiding registration fraud, rather than about whom the newly registered voters might choose to vote for, which is entirely up to them.

As the spokesman bishop is quoted as saying there "Non-partisan voter registration, especially in poor communities, is important and needed work. Too often, poor voters are not registered or are not encouraged to participate in the vital choices that affect their families and communities."

The legal status of abortion is an important issue, but it's not by any means the only one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:40 PM

"Considering the fact that it has already been established that ACORN has not engaged in any unlawful activities or voter registration fraud,"


                   It has not. They are still under investigation by the FBI.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:07 PM

ACORN is not under investigation by the FBI. Some of ACORN's former employees are under investigation by the FBI.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:56 PM

Blunt: News of FBI's Investigation of ACORN a Welcome Development
House Republican Whip Roy Blunt
WASHINGTON, Oct. 16 — House Republican Whip Roy Blunt (Mo.) applauded reports this afternoon that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has opened an active investigation into whether the left-wing advocacy group ACORN has violated federal election law by fostering and promoting a national program of voter registration fraud.

Blunt issued the following statement:

"Last week, I was proud to join three former secretaries of state now serving in Congress, as well as our ranking members on the Judiciary and Administration committees, in calling on the Justice Department to stand up in defense of the sanctity of Americans' right to vote -- and, as important, their right to be assured that vote counts.

"I want to applaud the Department of Justice for taking this important step, and associate myself with the efforts of Leader Boehner to ensure not one more dime of taxpayer money is diverted into the coffers of this organization until Justice completes its review and determines whether ACORN's actions merit criminal prosecution."

Advertisement
NOTE: The Associated Press reported today that the FBI is actively pursuing leads in the investigation of ACORN. Word of the investigation comes less than a week after Blunt joined Reps. Candice Miller (R-Mich.), Vernon Ehlers (R-Mich.), Dean Heller (R-Nev.), Tom Cole (R-Okla.), and Lamar Smith (R-Texas) in sending a letter to the Department of Justice urging it to act. That letter is available here,


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: curmudgeon
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:03 PM

That "news" item is a month old!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:14 PM

I think Representative Blunt's pants are a little bit on fire.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/us/politics/17acorn.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin


'But law enforcement officials sought on Thursday to ratchet down speculation that the Federal Bureau of Investigation had begun a broader investigation into the group's activities. Some officials said privately that they were wary of being pulled into a highly partisan controversy so close to Election Day.

The officials said their investigation of Acorn's activities would, for now, focus on reports of voter registration fraud that have surfaced in several states...

...In a statement, Acorn said it had not been contacted by federal law enforcement agencies, and the group's leaders expressed confidence that "any legitimate review of Acorn by any law enforcement entity — be it local, state or federal — will determine that the organization has conducted itself properly."'


The FBI is not investigating ACORN. They were (I don't know if they still are or not) investigating specific reports of falsified registrations.

The FBI is also aware of the political nature of the reports against ACORN, and that's why they're downplaying their investigation into those reports.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:24 PM

Frankly, I don't see any difference between announcing that the FBI is investigating reports about falsified registration forms related to ACORN's activities, and simply saying, "The FBI is investigating ACORN."


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:25 PM

I can appreciate the political problems related to the whole thing, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 04:28 PM

They have to follow up on the reports regardless of whether or not they have any validity. That's not at all the same thing as investigating ACORN itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 05:00 PM

"... allegations that Dale Rathke, the brother of ACORN founder Wade Rathke, had embezzled nearly $1 million..."

One might assume that the FBI has every right to investigate this chap since ACORN has received at least $32 million dollars of Federal taxpayer money in the last few years. This outfit also operates in more than one state which should trigger a Federal investigation as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 05:29 PM

I would think that in that case, the FBI would be investigating Wade Rathke, and not ACORN, since ACORN was the victim of that crime and not the perpetrator of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 07:12 PM

The same would apply if people had been defrauding ACORN by falsifying registration forms.

In both cases there would be a possibility that the organisation had been at fault for not having spotted it earlier etc, and that would merit investigation to find out whether that is the case or not. But there's no justice in treating such an investigation as proof of the organisation being at fault.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:08 PM

Well, McGrath, I would agree. Proof is proof and nothing is certain until or unless we have it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 04:35 AM

There's actually a fairly wide spectrum of opinion about Obama among American bishops. Only the most extreme conservatives would say it was wrong to vote for Obama. While American Catholic bishops are probably 100 percent opposed to abortion, some believe Roe v. Wade is here to stay, and it's time to start reducing the number of abortions by "changing hearts and minds" and by encouraging alternatives to abortion. It's just that the extremists are the ones who get the press coverage.
You will find a good number of Catholic priests and a huge number of nuns who supported Obama. The bishops tend to be more conservative - managers usually are.
Number 6 is correct in saying this:
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Roman Catholics as a whole supported Obama .... they object to the Dem's stand on abortion ... but support their policy in regards to the ending of the war, their stand on immigration, their stand on worker's rights, health care, and the Dems' commitment to the poor, and their stand on the environment etc.
But a fair number of bishops think that abortion trumps all other issues, even though the Republicans haven't ended abortion although they have held the White House for most of the time since Roe v. Wade.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:31 AM

In 2004, the Republicans tried to suppress votes (a form of election fraud) and cast doubt on the outcome of the election should the Democrat get elected, by doing the same thing to ACORN that they did during this election. This was the result in 2004/5. I expect we will see the same result this time around...


http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/1214-09.htm

'WASHINGTON - December 14 - Today, Project Vote congratulated the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) on the dismissal of the third and final voter registration fraud lawsuit brought against the group in 2004. ACORN, in partnership with Project Vote, ran the largest non-partisan voter outreach program in the 2004 election cycle, registering 1.15 million low-income and minority citizens in 26 states and contacting 2.3 million through Get-Out-the-Vote efforts. In 2004, several politically motivated law firms brought baseless charges of voter registration fraud against ACORN in an effort to inhibit its work to register low-income and minority voters.

"For twenty years, we have worked with ACORN to ensure the voices of low-income and minority Americans are heard at the ballot box," said Holli Holliday, National Director of Project Vote. "We have complete confidence in ACORN's quality control process and are not at all surprised these lawsuits and investigations have collapsed. Today, we celebrate this as a victory for voters."

One year after the contentious 2004 election, it is clear that politically motivated law firms and organizations leveled unfounded allegations of fraud against ACORN with the goal of tarnishing the community group's reputation and inhibiting its work. In recent months, three highly publicized legal challenges brought against ACORN staff have been dismissed or withdrawn for lack of evidence. In Ohio, a lawsuit funded by the conservative Free Enterprise Coalition and litigated by the law firm of Shumaker, Loop and Kendrick collapsed on October 28. Two Florida lawsuits, based solely on claims by convicted felon and ex-ACORN employee Mac Start and litigated by Rothstein, Rosenfeldt, Adler of Fort Lauderdale, were dismissed with prejudice. Stuart admitted to making false statements against ACORN.

"This outcome is vindication for our dedicated staff and volunteers who worked around the clock in the 2004 election to make sure the voices of low-income Americans were heard," said Tamecka Pierce of ACORN. "The conservative groups who leveled false charges should be held accountable – this kind of harassment is clearly designed to intimidate community groups who register people of color."

Further, criminal investigations responding to allegations of voter fraud recently ended in Colorado, Wisconsin, Florida, and Ohio after finding no evidence of wrongdoing by ACORN or any pervasive voter fraud. In Wisconsin, U.S. Attorney Steve Biskupic, a Republican appointed by President Bush in 2004, concluded, "We don't see a massive conspiracy to alter the election in Milwaukee, one way or another." In Ohio, a year-long federal, state, and local investigation ended with no federal indictments. "Our investigation is closed. No one was charged…the federal investigation is closed," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Bill Edwards in Cleveland.

ACORN uses a comprehensive quality control program developed by Project Vote. Separate quality control staff visually review the hundreds of collected voter registration applications to identify incomplete or suspicious applications, and then call applicants to verify the information on the applications. Before completed applications are submitted to election officials, they are photocopied (where allowed) and filed in order to create records to assist in the investigation of any concerns. ACORN maintains a zero-tolerance policy against fraud and, by implementing strong quality control procedures, is able to identify and terminate any employee submitting fraudulent registrations.

Project Vote and ACORN's comprehensive voter outreach methodology is regarded as one of the industry's best. In 2004, thousands of volunteers and staff helped register 1.15 million citizens in 26 states, and reached 2.3 million through Get-Out-the-Vote efforts. ACORN and Project Vote staff registered voters at high-traffic locations, such as grocery stores, farmers markets, and concerts, and contacted registered voters with reminders to vote by going door-to-door and calling them on the phone. The results were impressive: Project Vote and ACORN increased turnout by an average of 24% over 2000 turnout in targeted precincts, including an increase of 35% in Pennsylvania (19 points higher than state turnout increase) and 44.7% in Maricopa County, Arizona (12 points higher than the county increase overall).

"We are pleased to put these false accusations behind us and continue our work for voting rights, more affordable housing, better schools, and access to health care," said Pierce. "However, we know we will face attacks in the future from those who are scared that our good work brings power and a voice to our communities."'


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 08:53 PM

"'...said Pierce. "However, we know we will face attacks in the future from those who are scared that our good work brings power and a voice to our communities."'"


                   The problem is, the good work he talks about is partisan Democrat, and that's all right, but he shouldn't expect any additional funding from public sources.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:13 PM

They don't only register Democrats. They register people in other parties, too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:28 PM

And they ran campaing ads against John McCain with public money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 09:45 PM

No they didn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 07:46 AM

Okay, they released information to the media that somebody else turned into an ad. Still, any standing the had of being nonpartisan goes out the window, and so should their funding. See attached:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/... by: Marcus Baram

    ...McCain accused ACORN of "maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy."

Today, the group fired back by releasing a report, "ACORN vs. McCain: The Real Story of the Financial Crisis 1999 to 2008," attacking McCain for his lack of warnings about the impending subprime mortgage crisis last year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 08:21 AM

That report is dated October 16th, Riginslinger. It's interesting that it is just about impossible to find any report on the web dated after the election on the investigations into alleged registration fraud by ACORN employees. I wonder if they were all quietly dropped as no longer being important to the complaining parties?


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 08:39 AM

The report is dated 10/16 because that's when it happened. There isn't much point in going forward with registration fraud now. The local authorities will simply have to sort out what they have, and they have all the time in the world to do it now. If the election had been closer, I suspect there would be more attention paid to it.

                     What is important now is to discourage any further attempt to generate public money for ACORN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 09:21 AM

Well, considering that most, if not all, of the allegations originate with the Republican party or points further right; considering that none of these allegations have been verified (although there may certainly be some ACORN employees at fault, many turned in by ACORN itself); and considering that "innocent until proven guilty" is a basic legal concept, I personally see no reason why they should be automatically excluded. Of course, that fact that everyone is entitled to his own opinion is also a basic concept.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 09:32 AM

I think the Republican Party -- of which I an not a member -- feels pretty sorely used by ACORN after this election. I would be very surprised if they didn't try to head off any funding directed towards ACORN. It could be they don't have the numbers in Congress to prevent it.
                  On the other hand, if the Democrats feel strongly enough about it to push funding through, I think ACORN is going to look worse to the general public than it does even now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM

The Republican Party, as I have shown already, has always tried to prevent ACORN from registering voters. Because when the majority of the population of this country votes, the Republicans don't do very well, and they know it. They have to try to suppress votes in order to get elected. What they're doing it illegal, and I think the real issue at this point, is to start pressing charges against the Republican operatives who are fraudulently trying to suppress votes, like the ones who, in every presidential election, try to prevent ACORN from registering new voters.

The Republican Party hasn't been sorely used by ACORN. They have been defeated by ACORN. And that's as it should be. ACORN is acting entirely within the law, and the Republicans have been blatantly violating it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 10:49 AM

Here's the report that ACORN put out in response to John McCain's advertisement which fraudulently accused ACORN of being responsible for the economic meltdown. ACORN wasn't engaging in partisanship when it defended itself from those fraudulent accusations. If McCain doesn't like people defending themselves against his fraudulent accusations, he shouldn't be making them in the first place...

http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=12439&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=22393&tx_ttnews[backPid]=12384&cHash=c4cb0b9840

http://www.acorn.org/fileadmin/Reports/McCain_Report.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM

Carol - Unless ACORN is found guilty of fraud--with the exception of the folks who are being accused of theft--they didn't do anything illegal. It only comes into play when we are talking about rewarding them with tax payer money to conduct partisan activities. They should never see another dime of tax payer money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 02:06 PM

That's where we disagree. McCain was trying to undermine ACORN's ability to do its work during a critical time in an election cycle. ACORN came to their own defense. That's not the same as campaigning against a candidate. ACORN should continue to receive whatever public funds they have received in the past.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 03:43 PM

That's the problem, ACORN's work is partisan out of the gate. McCain was doing his civic duty as a sitting senator to make the ACORN efforts known to the public.

                      In any event, nothing more will probably come of it unless ACORN comes back to the public trough for more money.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 03:50 PM

It's not partisan out of the gate. The effect of their work may benefit Democrats more than Republicans, but that's more because of the way Republicans govern than because of any bias on the part of ACORN. ACORN works to help people in moderate to low income areas, and because of the basic philosophy of the Republican Party, moderate to low income people are almost always hurt when Republicans are in office. For this reason, people in those income groups tend to vote for Democrats (but not all of them do by any stretch of the imagination).

ACORN is not partisan. It is oriented to income levels and not political affiliations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 10:22 PM

Okay, Carol. I'll take your word for it, but I'll watch the development of future ACORN funding with interest.


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