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BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN

Bobert 26 Oct 08 - 08:46 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 26 Oct 08 - 10:01 PM
Genie 26 Oct 08 - 11:40 PM
CarolC 27 Oct 08 - 12:35 AM
Genie 27 Oct 08 - 12:36 AM
Genie 27 Oct 08 - 12:52 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 27 Oct 08 - 01:13 AM
CarolC 27 Oct 08 - 01:20 AM
Genie 27 Oct 08 - 01:47 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 27 Oct 08 - 02:53 AM
CarolC 27 Oct 08 - 03:49 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Oct 08 - 09:51 AM
CarolC 27 Oct 08 - 10:03 AM
Riginslinger 27 Oct 08 - 10:05 AM
CarolC 27 Oct 08 - 10:08 AM
CarolC 27 Oct 08 - 10:17 AM
Riginslinger 27 Oct 08 - 12:08 PM
CarolC 27 Oct 08 - 12:21 PM
Amos 27 Oct 08 - 12:26 PM
Sawzaw 27 Oct 08 - 01:47 PM
Amos 27 Oct 08 - 01:49 PM
Riginslinger 27 Oct 08 - 02:10 PM
Amos 27 Oct 08 - 03:05 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Oct 08 - 03:09 PM
Riginslinger 27 Oct 08 - 03:48 PM
Genie 27 Oct 08 - 11:59 PM
CarolC 28 Oct 08 - 02:59 AM
Riginslinger 28 Oct 08 - 06:58 AM
Riginslinger 30 Oct 08 - 10:58 AM
Bill D 30 Oct 08 - 12:53 PM
Riginslinger 30 Oct 08 - 12:55 PM
CarolC 30 Oct 08 - 01:06 PM
Riginslinger 30 Oct 08 - 01:20 PM
Bill D 30 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM
pdq 30 Oct 08 - 01:27 PM
CarolC 30 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM
CarolC 30 Oct 08 - 01:33 PM
dick greenhaus 30 Oct 08 - 01:40 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Oct 08 - 01:41 PM
Riginslinger 30 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Oct 08 - 01:54 PM
CarolC 30 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM
Riginslinger 30 Oct 08 - 02:01 PM
CarolC 30 Oct 08 - 02:06 PM
Riginslinger 30 Oct 08 - 02:15 PM
CarolC 30 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM
Riginslinger 30 Oct 08 - 02:24 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Oct 08 - 05:58 PM
Riginslinger 30 Oct 08 - 06:16 PM
Bobert 30 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:46 AM

Yeah, apparently Saez is only interested in quoting Right wing propaganda which leave out the 99% of the folks at ACORN who abide by the law...

That is what is called "over generalization" and "over generalization" is the the basis of racism... Now we are back to the "Big Lies" of the 60's that are being dusted off and reused by the McCain folks...

Sawz will never see himself as a racist but you can take it to the bank that he his furthering racist propaganda here in Mudville...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 10:01 PM

Actually, Barry, I agree with you!..and if ACORN was helping those who can't make it to the polls, or facilitating them, in any way, to exercise their right to vote, well good for them. If it is used for the manipulation of anyone they are helping, to further a party's agenda, for a buck...well, that's a different story. Someone, somewhere can get to the bottom of this, and get it over with!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Genie
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:40 PM

"If Acorn had been smart they would have burned the bad registrations rather than give zealots the opportunity to say that someone who registered as Harry Potter of Grifendor is tearing the fabric of democracy to shreds."
No way.   If they were even ACCUSED of selectively destroying voter registration applications -- much less, observed doing that -- they'd be subject to even more serious allegations, investigation, and prosecution.
Despite the Republican-driven and media-echoed brouhaha over "Mickey Mouse" and dead people trying to register, ACORN has broken no law by turning in those application cards.    In fact, in most states they're required to turn them in.

ACORN is an organization engaged in many projects, not just voter registration.   They do tend to focus their community work (on behalf of education, legal rights, etc.) on urban areas and do a lot of work with lower-income and minority people. In that sense, I guess you could say they tend to be "liberal" and work more with groups who tend to vote Democratic than with groups who tend to vote Republican. But that's not the same thing as being "partisan." Especially when it comes to voter registration drives.

BTW, there's nothing unethical or illegal about a nonprofit organization focusing most of its efforts on a subset of the community (e.g., Native Americans on reservations, inner-city disadvantaged youth, battered women, unwed teen mothers, African-American youth, etc.). Lots of nonprofits target subgroupds. They're just not supposed to discriminate in administering their services (e.g., refusing to let people register to vote unless they register as Democrats, refusing meals to non-Christians, etc.).

But I blame the Democrats -- and, yes, Barack Obama too -- for not using their media spotlight to set the record straight about the difference between "voter REGISTRATION fraud" (which, apparently, some people tried to commit, either out of laziness, a twisted sense of humor, or maybe even the attempt to sabotage ACORN), "VOTER fraud" (someone ineligible voting or voting twice or buying someone else's vote), and "ELECTION fraud" (the systematic kind, that changes the outcome of elections at the local, state, or national level).   

If the Democrats lose this time, in spite of exit polls that show them winning, they have themselves to blame for not raising bloody hell about the widespread ELECTION tampering that can so easily happen with massive voter registration purges, voter intimidation, inadequate facilities for voting (making wait times long), malfunctioning machines (e.g., broken machines), and electronic voting machines that use proprietary software and provide no transparency or means of checking the accuracy of the count.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 12:35 AM

Yes, I hope the Democrats fight illegal voter disenfranchisement tooth and nail this time around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Genie
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 12:36 AM

The minimum-wage ACORN worker (or whoever it was) who filled in fake voter registration applications SHOULD be prosecuted, mainly to discourage other shirkers and pranksters from pulling similar stunts (wasting ACORN's money, taxpayers' money, etc., and gumming up the important work of letting citizens vote). But that offense probably is, and should be, a misdemeanor, punished by a fine and/or community service.
The important crimes that are, or at least should be, felonies and that really need to be vigorously prosecuted are things like these:
~tampering with electronic voting (or vote-counting) machine software
~falsely "notifying" or advising citizens of changes in precincts, changes of election dates, etc.
~voter intimidation in the form of harassment of would-be voters by "challenging" their eligibility at polling places without probable cause.   (Note: someone's race, apparent ethnicity, gender, manner of dress, etc., or the location of the polling place is not probable cause for questioning someone's eligibility)
~voter intimidation by fraud, e.g., sending messages to students falsely informing them that if they vote at their campus location they will lose their scholarship eligibliity; sending messages to urban residents that if they have outstanding parking tickets or are late on child-support payments they will be arrested on the spot if they try to vote.
~deliberately omitting or distorting the name or party affiliation of a candidate on the ballot (e.g. leaving Bob Barr's name off the ballot, listing Barack Obama as "Barack Osama," or listing John McCain as an Independent).
~state election officials deliberately allocating disproportionately more voting machines to suburban precincts than to urban ones.

The various and sundry serious election fraud tactics are not going to stop or even slow down until some people face serious jail time for them.   (Fines won't do it, because they don't matter to rich people.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Genie
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 12:52 AM

Sawzaw: [[Acorn takes taxpayers money and pays people to register voters. Those people bribe people with cigarettes and cash to fill out multiple registration forms which is a felony.

If Acorn lets the people they pay with public funds from doing this, they are abusing the use of public funds.

"Sometimes, they come up and bribe me with a cigarette, or they'll give me a dollar to sign up," said Freddie Johnson, 19, who filled out 72 separate voter-registration cards over an 18-month period at the behest of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

"The ACORN people are everywhere, looking to sign people up. I tell them I am already registered. The girl said, 'You are?' I say, 'Yup,' and then they say, 'Can you just sign up again?' " he said. "]]

Come on, Sawzaw.   Sweeping generalization from a couple of anecdotal incidents?   Maybe Freddie Johnson's telling the truth. Maybe not. He could be just seeking publicity. He could be one of the people trying to sabotage voter registration efforts. Who knows?
But even if he's legit, it proves nothing except that one, or a few, ACORN workers tried to cheat ACORN.

Once again, ACORN DOES NOT ISSUE VOTER REGISTRATION CARDS or add people to the state's voter registration rolls. The state is not likely to issue voter registration cards to Disney cartoon characters, dead people, vacant lots, etc.   Especially if those "applications" have been flagged by ACORN as "questionable" or "suspect."   

Given the absurdly careless way that the Help America Vote Act was put together and run through Congress, it's far, far more likely that T. Boone Pickens will be kicked off the voter registration rolls in Texas because he goes by that name for business but the IRS and Social Security bureaucrats insist on identifying him as "Thomas B. Pickens."


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:13 AM

If the Attorney General's office went after ACORN, with the RICO statute, they'd be in a world of hurt!!

One to add to your list, Genie, They found a goldfish, named 'Princess' registered!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:20 AM

They wouldn't be in any trouble at all if they didn't break any laws. And they didn't. The Republicans have been saying all of this same stuff about ACORN since 2000. If there had ever been any truth to the allegations, ACORN would have been shut down years ago. Obviously, they haven't been, and obviously, there was never any truth to any of the allegations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Genie
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:47 AM

GfromS, I would welcome the government using RICO laws, with equal vigor and without bias, to investigate and prosecute any and all organizations suspected of either voter registration fraud, voter fraud, voter intimidation, or election rigging/tampering - or all of the above.

As for "Princess" being involved in "voter fraud," get some footage of her showing up at the polls to vote and you'll make a mint! LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 02:53 AM

As posted before, by yours truly, its the corruption that is our biggest enemy..both in breaking the laws, and not enforcing the ones, that could clean house! The hypocrisy, and selective enforcement depending on the political agenda being promoted, without the will of the people, to me, makes virtually all politicians suspect!!

....As for 'Princess', the goldfish, she wasn't exactly bribed, but she went for it hook line and sinker!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 03:49 AM

That's one of the reasons I prefer Obama to McCain this time around. His funding comes from millions of voters (in small amounts). His campaign has democratized how a campaign gets funded. So that makes him beholden to a lot of regular voters rather than a few special interests. I intend to hold him to a high standard if he gets elected, but at least he will know who he's going to have to answer to if he wants to get re-elected.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 09:51 AM

From today's Guardian this piece about the efforts which are being made to stop people from being able to vote if it's thought they are likely to vote the wrong way:

The manipulation and intimidation that African-Americans must face in order to cast a vote will only get worse this year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 10:03 AM

I guess we haven't progressed as far beyond Jim Crow as we though we had.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 10:05 AM

"His funding comes from millions of voters (in small amounts)."



                        Manipulated by one big media center!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 10:08 AM

Not hardly. He gets his funding through having an incredibly effective organization, both nationally and locally. I know, because I've done some volunteer work for his organization, and I've seen how it operates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 10:17 AM

I'm reading his book, Audacity of Hope right now. He won his Senate seat by driving all over the state of Illinois, just talking to people wherever he could get the chance, and winning them over to what he had to say... mostly by listening to them and then pointing out how much most people have in common and what can be done to bring people together rather than dividing them.

He doesn't rely on others to get his message across. He does a very good job of getting it across himself. That's why his rallies get such large numbers of people attending them. If he didn't have a message that people responded well to, it wouldn't matter how much effort MoveOn put out to try to get him elected. MoveOn is just another way to get information. They don't shape how people think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 12:08 PM

"He gets his funding through having an incredibly effective organization, both nationally and locally."


                  This is kind of a chicken-or-the-egg kind of a proposition. Without massive funding, an effective organization is impossible to construct--at least in America.

                   With the kind of funding that Move.On and others have been able to direct to Obama, there are any number of people who could do as well as he did.

                  If you're getting information about this from reading his book, one would only caution--consider the source.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 12:21 PM

Actually, that's no longer true. The internet has made it possible for Obama to raise a lot of money without having to use a lot of money in the process. Obama's organization is incredibly effective at harnessing the power of the internet, and that's how he has gotten most of his money. With that money he built a large and very effective ground organization that has multiplied the effect of the money he gets online, which allows him to buy advertising, and that generates more financial contributions. But it started with the internet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 12:26 PM

The kind of disenfranchisement the GOP is supporting is criminally abusive to the democratic ideals of the country.

Notice that they typically do not seek to disenfranchise the apathetic know-nothing voters who vote every year based on no information except the last burst of rumor.

They seek to disenfranchise those for whom a more equitable national organization would be beneficial.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:47 PM

Bobert cannot carry on a conversation with out injecting race into it.

He is the racist. He believes people of one race deserves different treatment from people of another race.

His type will keep racial prejudice alive forever.

If somebody does fraudulent things, race has nothing to do with it.

The organization that hires people that do fradulent things is responsible for the actions of the people they employ.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:49 PM

Donna Brazile remarks:

"...The so-called ACORN scandal is no more than a few canvassers trying to meet their quota and make easy money by cheating the system.

Ask yourself how likely is it that someone would go through the effort and risk of submitting multiple false registration forms, find an accomplished forger capable of producing IDs of sufficient quality to trick election officials, and then spend Election Day racking up a couple extra votes at the potential cost of spending a decade in jail?

A simple cost-benefit analysis tells us this is not a reasonable or significant threat. The real threat here is the Republican Party using attacks on ACORN as a calculated strategy to justify massive challenges to the votes cast in Democratic-leaning voting precincts on Election Day. And this is what is truly outrageous, but where is John McCain's concern when it comes to people being harassed at the voting booth?

The same Republican Party shouting "Voter fraud!" is also furiously trying to prevent Ohio from registering voters at early voting sites and suing to shut down some early voting sites in Indiana.

Just as the GOP will use the so-called "Bradley effect" to explain away voting irregularities it created through voter suppression, it will use allegations of voter fraud to cover its efforts of voter suppression.

McCain and Republican candidates up and down the GOP ticket don't want increased voter turnout.

Let them sputter and fret. A swelling of the voter rolls strengthens our democracy. The more eligible voters we have participating in the process, the stronger we are as a nation -- and the more accurately the results on November 4 will reflect our nation's choice for president.

We must be vigilant in protecting people's right to vote, not vigilant in suppressing it. We must be vigilant that new voters aren't threatened, harassed or turned away. And we must be vigilant that resources like voting machines and poll workers are distributed appropriately to accommodate the projected influx of new voters.

Finally, we must be vigilant that this election, unlike 2000 or 2004, doesn't return conspicuous voting irregularities, and that those irregularities aren't left unchallenged.

We must be vigilant in the protection of our democracy because the way things are going in the United States right now, democracy may be the only valuable left in our national treasury."...

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Donna Brazile. (CNN)


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 02:10 PM

"Spread the Truth About ACORN"


                The Republican Party and Fox News alreayd have!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 03:05 PM

Rig:

I assume your eyes have always been brown?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 03:09 PM

It's an interesting kind of drift, isn't it - starts off being passionate supporter of one Democratic candidate. When she fails to win, switches to "nothing to choose between McCainn and Obama", moves on to "on balance McCain"; ends up praising Fox News, demonising Obama, and looking forward cheerfully to the prospect of Sarah Palin as president.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 03:48 PM

Spread the wealth, that's what I always say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Genie
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 11:59 PM

This report in the NYT says that a hight percentage of voter registration applications gathered by ACORN were either not new registrations or were rejected for one reason or another, but it doesn't suggest widespread fraud of any sort -- especially not "vote fraud" or fraud deliberately perpetrated by ACORN.

And perhaps the most important aspect of the Republican's assault on ACORN's legitimacy is the diversion of voter rights lawyers' funds and efforts away from protection of the public from ELECTION FRAUD and DISENFRANCHISEMENT and toward defense against ridiculous "voter fraud" charges.

This report also describes the criminal investigation of Mark Jacoby, of Young Political Majors, a firm hired by Republicans for voter registration. Jacoby allegedly used a fraudulent address to qualify for gathering signatures on petitions and registering voters in California and is accused having deceived Democratic party registrants into registering as Republicans. The firm of another Republican operative, Nathan Sproul, has also been investigated for voter registration fraud in several states.

[[ Group's Tally of New Voters Was Vastly Overstated

October 24, 2008
By MICHAEL FALCONE and MICHAEL MOSS

On Oct. 6, the community organizing group Acorn and an affiliated charity called Project Vote announced with jubilation that they had registered 1.3 million new voters. But it turns out the claim was a wild exaggeration, and the real number of newly registered voters nationwide is closer to 450,000, Project Vote's executive director, Michael Slater, said in an interview.

The remainder are registered voters who were changing their address and roughly 400,000 that were rejected by election officials for a variety of reasons, including duplicate registrations, incomplete forms and fraudulent submissions from low-paid field workers trying to please their supervisors, Mr. Slater acknowledged. ]]

NOTE: Lots of voter registration applications, regardless of who collects or submits them, are rejected, at least temporarily, because of incomplete information, clerical errors, or duplications.   (If you've sent in a voter registration application and not yet received your card a month later, you might well send in another one, just in case your earlier one was lost or destroyed.)
Also, part of the job of a voter registration drive is to help make sure people's registrations are up to date, so submitting new cards for people who have changed their names or addresses is quite valid and important.   Those voters would probably not have been able to vote without updating their registration info.


[[ In registration drives, it is common for a percentage of newly registered voters to be disqualified for various reasons, although experts say the percentage is higher when groups pay workers to gather registrations. But the disclosure on Thursday that 30 percent of ACORN's registrations were faulty was described by Republicans as further proof of what they said was ACORN's effort to tilt the election unfairly.

"We were wondering how many were Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse," said Danny Diaz, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee. "The group is really tainted, and any work they do is suspect."]]
This is, of course, silly.   Donald and Mickey aren't going to be issued voter registration cards or ballots, much actually vote or even try to.

[[Republicans had been prepared for months to make an issue of Acorn's registration drive. A year ago, the party's national committee anticipated the surge of new registrations by putting a map of the country on its Web site, labeled "You Can't Make This Up! Vote Fraud."

Democrats and officials with ACORN accuse Republicans of trying to manufacture a controversy to deflect attention from alleged voter suppression activities in several states. Election officials and experts say there is little chance that significant numbers of supporters of either party would actually try to vote through a fraudulent registration.

Over the last few weeks, the ACORN registration drive has become a flash point in the campaign when the flood of new voter registrations prompted complaints from election officials about the high number of improper submissions. State and local officials have begun investigations into possible fraudulent activity in at least 10 states.

If interviews with two dozen voters in the swing states of Florida and Ohio are any indication, Republicans' efforts appear to have resonated with some members of their own party as well as with some independents and Democrats.

"I'd have to see how bad it is and what happens," said Dorrie Cohen, an 82-year-old Democrat in Boynton Beach, Fla. "If it's very organized fraud, I think that I would question the election. If it's just a few people trying something, I don't think I would. However, there's so much on the newspapers and the TV about it, I imagine it will be organized."

Mr. Slater and ACORN officials have defended their voter registration work. They said that it remained technically difficult to weed out duplications without better access to election records, and that their internal auditing identified many of the fraudulent registrations, which they flagged for election officials to review.

"Everybody knows that when 1.3 million applications are submitted, not every single one of them gets on the rolls," said Brian Kettenring, a spokesman for ACORN. "That's common sense."

The Republican drive to publicize ACORN's problems has had another less visible impact on the race, shifting the focus of election lawyers in the homestretch to the Nov. 4 election. Much of the Democratic team of lawyers and operatives who had intended to work on monitoring voter rights at the polls has instead played defense the last two weeks, responding to accusations of fraud.

The Obama campaign has also sought to deflect Republican efforts to tie ACORN's registration campaign to the Democratic presidential nominee, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois. The Republicans highlighted a federal election filing by the Obama campaign that showed an $832,598 payment last February to an ACORN affiliate, Citizens Services Inc., for "staging, sound, lighting." The Republicans suggested that the payment was actually for voter registration. But the Obama campaign said it had mislabeled the payment, and it filed an amended report that reflects the money was for get-out-the-vote efforts.
In a letter on Thursday to Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey, the general counsel for the Obama campaign, Robert F. Bauer, said he worried that Republican Party officials or candidates would pressure the Justice Department to improperly involve itself in the election.

Accusations of impropriety by a Republican voter registration campaign surfaced this week in California, where the authorities arrested the owner of a firm hired by the California Republican Party to register voters. Officials said that the owner, Mark Jacoby, fraudulently registered himself at a childhood address to qualify for gathering signatures on petitions and registering voters.

Mr. Jacoby's firm, Young Political Majors, is also facing accusations of tricking residents into registering as Republicans by having them sign petitions seeking tougher penalties for child molesters.

Mr. Jacoby's lawyer, Dan Goldfine, said that the charges against his client were "baseless," and added that although the authorities have been looking into accusations that Mr. Jacoby's firm improperly registered voters, they did not charge him with those violations.
In June, federal election records show, the California Republican Party paid $175,000 for voter registration work to the firm of a Republican operative, Nathan Sproul, who has been investigated for voter registration fraud in several states. Mr. Sproul could not be reached for comment.

In interviews this week, ACORN officials said they had an extensive program to detect fraudulent applications, which included calling the registrants to verify information provided on the forms. They also said they had combed through electronic records from the group's field offices across the country, and that their internal audit did not show evidence of pervasive voter registration fraud.

Most of the registrations that were rejected were duplicate forms, followed by incomplete forms. The ACORN officials said their investigation found about 9,000 voter registration cards that were determined to be fraudulent. A lawyer for the group estimated that perhaps 5,000 to 6,000 more cards employees turned in were fraudulent. ACORN officials said that 20 percent to 25 percent of the applications it submitted were likely duplicates, 5 percent were incomplete, and 1 percent to 1.5 percent were fraudulent. Mr. Slater said the estimates were based on past registration drives and a sampling of this one.

ACORN officials said they were unable to provide a state-by-state breakdown identifying where the fraudulent voter registrations were submitted, but a spokesman said that at least some bogus cards cropped up in all 18 states where the group had major registration drives. ACORN conducted smaller drives in three other states.

Mr. Kettenring, the ACORN spokesman, said the number of fraudulent cards did not vary widely from state to state, but he identified Acorn's office in Gary, Ind., as a particular trouble spot. After ACORN officials identified the percentage of problematic cards to be "unsatisfactorily high," they shut down the office for three weeks beginning in late August, and brought in new management and canvassers before reopening it.

The group also said it was forced to fire 829 of the 10,000 canvassers it hired during the election for job-related problems, including falsifying registration forms. ACORN officials say they pay canvassers an hourly wage and not by the number of forms they obtain.
Mr. Kettenring said ACORN intended to change the language on its Web site to reflect that 400,000 of the 1.3 million registration submissions would likely be rejected by election officials, but said the group did not intend to be misleading.

In Las Vegas, where state officials raided ACORN offices this month to seize records, the county registrar of voters, Harvard L. Lomax, said his workers had found hundreds of potentially fraudulent registrations beyond those identified by ACORN.

"What this has done is undermined confidence in the system, because voters don't understand that we have checks and bounds," Mr. Lomax said. "I'm confident in the integrity of elections here."

Echoing other election officials, Mr. Lomax said registration fraud could be sharply reduced if registration workers were all volunteers. "I have a solution: Make it illegal to pay people to register to vote," Mr. Lomax said. "Money is the root of evil."

But ACORN officials say that paying workers helps their voter registration drives succeed in signing up large numbers of minority and low income voters.

Joseph Hickson, an automobile designer from Naples, Fla., who is registered as a Democrat, said the voter registration issue would be made moot by a large margin of victory for Mr. Obama.

"It really depends on how much of a landslide he has — if he has one," Mr. Hickson said. "If it's close there may be some questions."

Renee K. Feltz contributed reporting.

Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company]]

Sounds to me like "voter fraud" could only swing the election if a state's electoral college votes were "won" by a mere handful of votes.   
Even if voter registration fraud -- registering the same voter multiple times or registering dead people or fictional characters -- were widespread, it's hard to see how this could result in a lot of actual VOTES being cast fraudulently.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:59 AM

If people are responsible for the people they employ, then the Republican party is responsible for those two guys who were arrested recently for falsifying voter registrations for the Republican Party. Which means that the Republican party is a corrupt, criminal enterprise.   I guess that means we need to purge millions of Republican voters from the voter rolls now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 06:58 AM

And the Democratic Party is responsible for those two guys in Tennessee who were trying to make a martyr out of Obama.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:58 AM

Any illusion about ACORN being non-partisan can be put aside. They are now running ads agains McCain on television.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:53 PM

Most reasonable people KNOW that Acorn's leaders and political action committee are more liberal and supportive of Democratic ideals...which, in case you missed it, INCLUDES registering all voters, including Republicans! Being against the particulars of McCain's candidacy is not in conflict with believing that all Americans should register and be involved in the voting process.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:55 PM

It is, however, in conflict with being non-partisan!


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:06 PM

I'd like to see some documentation for the assertion that ACORN is running ads against McCain on TV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:20 PM

ACORN Releases TV Ad Accusing McCain Of Suppressing Votes
KTNV Las Vegas - Oct 29 3:43 PMThe national voter rights group has released a 30 second television ad accusing John McCain of trying to suppress the vote. ACORN is the target of several federal and state investigations for possible voter registration fraud.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM

Their specific major goal: registering voters - IS non-partisan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: pdq
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:27 PM

"...an analysis showing that the left-wing group ACORN, currently under investigation by the FBI for a "coordinated national scam" of voter registration fraud according to the Associated Press, has received at least $31 million in federal funding from various federal agencies since 1998. This total does not count the untold millions more that ACORN has received indirectly through state and local agencies that receive federal block grants."

And no, they do not register Republicans at all if they can avoid it.

In fact, many of the few Republicans registered are Democrat activists who are trying to make the count "look better". They will never vote Republican.

No group should get one penny of federal taxpayer's money to register voters unless they are non-partisan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM

They didn't tell people to not vote for McCain. They're accusing him of disenfranchising voters, which is entirely consistent with their mission of helping people vote. That's not partisan. It's their job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:33 PM

It's easy to make charges without substantiation. So far, all of the accusations made against ACORN have proven to be fabrications and distortions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:40 PM

Has anyone commented upon the Republican Rout-the-Evangelical-Vote efforts?

I'm in favor of anyone trying to get everyone to vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:41 PM

McCain made a direct accusation against ACORN on TV, accusing them of trying to undermine democracy in the way they were registering voters, virtually accusing them of treason. The accusation, presented as if it were a proven fact, has been been repeated many times. It's not unreasonable that ACORN should seek to rebut those charges.

The voters registered by ACORN will be free to vote for whomever they choose to vote for. Presumably a good number will in fact be voting for McCain, assuming they don't get disenfranchised as a result of the tactics adopted by people in his campaign.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM

"They didn't tell people to not vote for McCain. They're accusing him of disenfranchising voters,..."


          They can't do that and take public money as a non-partisan organization.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:54 PM

Why not? The voters concerned could just as well be Republicans as Democrats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:58 PM

They can definitely level charges of vote suppression against someone who is trying to suppress votes, regardless of whether or not he is a Republican candidate, and still receive federal money. That's their job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:01 PM

Let's see, it's 4 days before the election, and they charge one candidate with vote tampering and not the other, while at the same time, they're under investigation by the FBI.

         If any Congress person votes to continue funding these jerks after the election, they ought to be locked up and never heard from again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:06 PM

McCain has been throwing around fabricated accusations against ACORN in order to discredit Obama and suppress votes. McCain has the bully pulpit. ACORN definitely has a right to defend themselves and the voters against these tactics of McCain's. If he didn't want them defending themselves so close to the election, he shouldn't be spreading lies about them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:15 PM

They've crossed the line and should never receive another dime of public money. That's all I'm saying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Whether or not those responsible for the legal side of the issue will agree with that opinion remains to be seen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:24 PM

Yes, well we can agree on that. But it will be interesting to see what happens the next time a bill comes up in Congress and ACORN funding is tied to it in some way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:58 PM

Wouldn't it make sense to give a link to the ad or ads in question, rather than arguing in abstract terms?

No doubt they are somewhere on YouTube, along with lots of other stuff about this which are not ads.

We've got all this wonde4rful information technology. Why not use it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:16 PM

That's the best I can do!



http://www.ktnv.com/global/story.asp?s=9261997


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Subject: RE: BS: Spread the Truth About ACORN
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM

200???


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