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BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia

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GUEST,Penguin Egg 24 Aug 08 - 06:01 AM
GUEST,Miner633 24 Aug 08 - 06:02 AM
Folk Form # 1 24 Aug 08 - 06:30 AM
kendall 24 Aug 08 - 06:44 AM
GUEST,Miner633 24 Aug 08 - 06:46 AM
GUEST,Miner633 24 Aug 08 - 06:50 AM
Ythanside 24 Aug 08 - 07:39 AM
Georgiansilver 24 Aug 08 - 08:37 AM
Georgiansilver 24 Aug 08 - 08:40 AM
Dave Hanson 24 Aug 08 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 24 Aug 08 - 10:25 AM
Megan L 24 Aug 08 - 11:04 AM
Big Al Whittle 24 Aug 08 - 12:11 PM
akenaton 24 Aug 08 - 12:34 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 24 Aug 08 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,Jack the Sailor 24 Aug 08 - 12:55 PM
The Villan 24 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM
The Villan 24 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM
Betsy 24 Aug 08 - 04:02 PM
Emma B 24 Aug 08 - 04:39 PM
Geoff the Duck 24 Aug 08 - 04:47 PM
Geoff the Duck 24 Aug 08 - 05:08 PM
Rapparee 24 Aug 08 - 06:09 PM
Doc John 24 Aug 08 - 06:13 PM
GUEST,A Regular. 24 Aug 08 - 07:18 PM
Peace 24 Aug 08 - 07:24 PM
Emma B 24 Aug 08 - 07:28 PM
Peace 24 Aug 08 - 08:01 PM
Nigel Parsons 24 Aug 08 - 08:24 PM
Richard Bridge 24 Aug 08 - 08:55 PM
Nigel Parsons 24 Aug 08 - 09:08 PM
GUEST,Miner633 25 Aug 08 - 03:26 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 25 Aug 08 - 05:28 AM
Georgiansilver 25 Aug 08 - 07:29 AM
Nigel Parsons 25 Aug 08 - 07:36 AM
Greg F. 25 Aug 08 - 08:08 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Aug 08 - 08:25 AM
GUEST,Miner633 25 Aug 08 - 08:38 AM
Folk Form # 1 25 Aug 08 - 10:47 AM
Georgiansilver 25 Aug 08 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,Miner633 25 Aug 08 - 11:22 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Aug 08 - 11:36 AM
John MacKenzie 25 Aug 08 - 12:01 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 25 Aug 08 - 12:28 PM
The Villan 25 Aug 08 - 02:34 PM
Backwoodsman 25 Aug 08 - 03:13 PM
jacqui.c 25 Aug 08 - 03:33 PM
Peace 25 Aug 08 - 03:36 PM
Wesley S 25 Aug 08 - 03:54 PM
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Subject: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:01 AM

I found this news item today. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/itn/20080824/tuk-carol-thatcher-reveals-mother-s-deme-dba1618.html
Very sad. My mother has dementia and it is soul destroying to see someone you love slowly die inside. I was never a fan of Mrs Thatcher - far from it - but no-one deserves this.


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Subject: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:02 AM

Just going through the papers and I see Thatcher's daughter Carol has revealed details of her mother's dementia.

It would appear she has totally lost the plot and can't even remember Denis !

Well we remember her and the evil she brought to this nation. I hope she lives for a long long time yet.

Rejoice, there is a God !
    Two threads combined. -Forum Moderator-


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Subject: RE: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:30 AM

I personally hate Margaret Thatcher. She is a war criminal who sank the Belgrano. However, we should not gloat over her dementia. She is a person with feelings and with a family.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: kendall
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:44 AM

Both my Mother and her Mother went that way. It's a heart breaker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:46 AM

Any chance of directing me to a link which confirms she has feelings ?

Ummmmmmm, has a family, ah yes Sir Mark admitted breaking anti-mercenary legislation in South Africa. If he had been successful it would have resulted in the loss of possibly thousands of lives.

Such a lovely family.

Save your pity PE, It's lost on me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:50 AM

I also watched it in my own family. Understand and take some comfort from the fact suffers die oblivious to their ills.

I dearly hope Margaret will regain her marbles and live for a long time aware of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Ythanside
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 07:39 AM

Ditto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:37 AM

Each one of us enters this sad world... not by choice or we would not bother coming... but we also each try to make our way through it in the best possible way we can. I am sure Margaret Thatcher thought she was doing her best and maybe even acknowledged making mistakes to those close to her. Who made any of us Judge and Jury over her or anyone else for that matter??? I am sure even a Guest who calls theirself Miner633 has made some bad mistakes through life..... doesn't mean that people won't be charitable when that person gets old and maybe needs help for serious illness or just the ageing process......... Maggie did many good things whilst in office and will sadly be remembered more for her mistakes... such is the way of our human world....... Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..........


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:40 AM

Guest Miner633.... your comment are differing
from those on the "Good news for a Sunday Morning" thread... why is that please????


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Subject: RE: BS: Great news for a Sunday morning
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 10:22 AM

Oh yeah ? she taught a whole generation that greed and selfishness are GOOD, this was not a mistake, like Ewan MacColl I hated her with a vengance, but I wouldnt wish dementia on her.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 10:25 AM

Its not Mrs. Thatcher's fault. She was part of a world wide groundswell of so called conservatism which resulted from a backlash against '60s protesters and two oil crises in the 1970's. If she hadn't been Prime Minister someone else would have done the same thing.

One might say that God is punishing her. One might say that it is more than coincidence that she and Reagan have suffered similar afflictions. But I say it is coincidence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 11:04 AM

Some of us also remember all the striking sons of bitches miners teachers and the like who destroyed the education of many young people in the seventies and were to wraped up in them selves to see young people being bullied and injured. My parents spent time taking hot food to old folk in our area that the miners didny gie a damb wheteher they lived or died. Folk were doing a pretty good job of being selfish without one womans help.

Meg who dislikes polititians of any coat and whose uncles were real miners wie a pick crawlin on their bellys.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 12:11 PM

well she got the miners crawling again....if that's what turns you on.

I'm sorry if anyone's ill. Vladimir Putin, The Yorkshire Ripper, anybody. Other peoples misery doesn't make the world nicer for anyone else.

Misery is a great corruptor and despoiler. Life should be good for all of us. Anyway that should be the aim and wish for everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 12:34 PM

Jack's right again....that's twice!! not bad for a yank :0)

Thatcher was a symptom of the disease that most people support and were willing to die for, in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan,Korea,etc etc.

Even here, on what is purported to be a "left wing" site few are prepared to look deeper at the cause of all the political ills which afflict us.

We are still starstruck by Obama,McCain, Blair, Brown, but they are only the bacteria that live on the putrifying beast.

I fear it will be another century before we see the "change" which is so glibly offered by Obama and his like, but surely to christ we can start to look a little further than the bottom of our wage/dole slip......Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 12:38 PM

"...Oh yeah ? she taught a whole generation that greed and selfishness are GOOD..."

No, many people **chose** to live by her values, that was all. They were entirely free NOT to do so.

I didn't.

Tony and Cherie Blair did though.

And the beat goes on......

....within New Labour.

I feel nothing but sympathy for her daughter, for to nurse anyone with dementia is soul destroying, and she is, after all, Carol's mother.




"...Oh yeah ? she taught a whole generation that greed and selfishness are GOOD..."

And Tony and Cherie Blair didn't? How soon we forget.

Just one example

All those speeches she gave, for vast fees? All the freebie clothes she took advantage of? The life of a political spouse 'celebrity' dressed to kill, with her fashion guru, Carol, *always* to hand, with photos of the two of them choosing which clothes she should wear, whilst sitting on Cherie's bed in Downing St.

Oh purleeze!

They thought they were the Posh and Becks of politicians (and politicians' wives) whilst behind them both, skulking in the shadows, lay Alistair Campbell, pulling all the strings he'd so easily been able to attach to The Tony Puppet he'd found, designing his Designer Britain, with the label of 'Orwell 1984' being embossed upon everything he touched...

With the Blairs came 'Cool Britannia' and The Age of the Celebrity, who they hung out with at every given opportunity. It was the age of the Luvvies..mwa mwa kisses and Cherie posing at any and every opportunity that came her way.

And yet, Tony promised us all a more 'compassionate Britain' when he first came into 'power'...

Yeah, right...

They all sicken me....as does Gordon, who, despite losing/messing up the pensions of millions of people, leaving them struggling for the rest of their lives, is now 'our leader'...And we're all supposed to conveniently forget what a catastrophe he created in the lives of so many? Sheesh! WHERE have our brains gone? Maybe the country is suffering from Dementia En Masse?

Blame Mrs. Thatcher for her part, but not without blaming those who came after..right alongside any of those who follow/followed them all, with 'eyes wide shut'


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 12:55 PM

Keep in mind that when given the chance people will vote for easy answers and others, especially the next generations, paying the tab.

That is the main appeal of Reagan/Thatcher/Mulrooney "conservatism".


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: The Villan
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM

Well she was a darn sight better than that [rat called Brown, who is leading us to destruction.

My mother has just been upped on nursing to dementia. Its not nice, but I would wish it on Brown more than Thatcher. I wouldn't wish it on anybody really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: The Villan
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM

{rat should have been prat


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Betsy
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 04:02 PM

She is and was social vandal . She probably can't remember Belgrano, stopping free milk for children and turning much of the nation into selfish individuals.
Where are we now when we are getting held to ransom on Gas/fuel prices?
She shit on a hard working bunch of miners - and we'll never get those lads down a hole again.
She may have forgotten - but Britain will remember her misdeeds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 04:39 PM

In 1987, the Thatcher ministry proposed to impose charges for periodic dental and eye checkups.
The proposal was seen as a violation of the principles of preventive medicine that might be further extended in the future.
The British Medical Association declared its opposition.
They complained that the Health Service was 'under funded, undermined and under threat'
The nurses made well justified claims for pay increases, many were leaving the NHS for the private sector.

The nurses resort to a strike to protest their low pay'

From The Thatcher Revolution by Earl Aaron Reitan

1988
"
Health workers totally demoralised and dejected"
Rodney Bickerstaffe, general secretary Nupe

Nurses protest for better pay
Nurses across the UK have taken part in a day of industrial action to secure more money for themselves AND the NHS.

In London, they were joined by patients, pensioner groups and Labour MPs in the 40 hospitals across the capital.

In the House of Commons Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher condemned the health workers' strike saying it was prolonging waiting lists and deserting patients

A South Yorkshire pit, Frickley Colliery, was brought to a standstill when nearly 200 day-shift workers refused to cross the nurses' picket line at the pit gate.'

BBC 'on this day' 3rd Feb


"Some of us also remember all the striking sons of bitches miners teachers and the like"
- like those very nurses who care for patients with dementia !


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 04:47 PM

So Carol Thatcher is using her mother's dementia to sell books.

VERY ADMIRABLE, I am am sure.

She is obviously just as heartless and unprincipled as her mother was.

Qack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 05:08 PM

Hang on!
Who was it shut down all the old folks homes and care facilities which looked after ordinary people who had dementia?
Oh Yes - Margaret Bloody Thatcher! Because it cost taxpayers money, and poor people didn't deserve to be cared for because "there was no such thing as society" and only rich people who could pay for medical care deserved to be treated.
I expect that she will be in private care with one to one nursing 24/7 unlike the people she robbed of any chance of dying with dignity under NHS hospitals or local council care.

Actually, I cannot feel any sympathy for her or her family. They are just as bad as she was. At least when My Grandmother had dementia, we were under an old style true Labour council, who hadn't at that time been forced by the Tories to sell off the local care homes. The homes don't exist any more, so I DO feel pity for the poor people who no longer have the option.

Quack!
GtD.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:09 PM

I feel true sorrow for those in the US who don't have health insurance every time I have to pick up a prescription or see a doctor (both are all too frequent these days).


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Doc John
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 06:13 PM

Hitler, Stalin etc thought what they were doing was for the best too and they too may be considered victims of their times. Thatcher was an admirer of Pinochet and Blair and Brown admirers of Thatcher, and the latter is planning a state funeral for her. As most of the army is occupied with illegal wars, perhaps the route could be lined by former miners. Steve Bell's recent series of cartoons about Thatcher and dementia are very distasteful and superb!


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,A Regular.
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 07:18 PM

There are only three people I hate badly enough to wish dementia on them, and she ain't one of 'em.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Peace
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 07:24 PM

Y'all might want to get pissed off at the folks who voted for her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 07:28 PM

Peace, it's kinda like Bush! - no one will actually own up to it :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Peace
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:01 PM

Yeah. I've been looking for one person who voted for Stephen Harper. No luck so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:24 PM

"Peace, it's kinda like Bush! - no one will actually own up to it :) "

I'll 'own up' to it. (in fact, I'm proud of it)
Prior to Maggie (and I'll admit she was no saint) we had a country working a three day week because of stikes by the miners meaning there was insufficient coal to run the power stations.
The miners were taken to strike action without a vote/mandate from the workers themselves.

Post Maggie there is a requirement for any union to ballot its workers before taking serious industrial action, and that by secret ballot (as with the election of politicians) so that no one is coerced by the militant members of their unions calling for a 'show of hands'.

I find it rather sad that we have people on this site who would wish illness on anyone, irrespective of their political leanings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 08:55 PM

Thatcher was not a reflection but a cause. There is nothing too bad for her to deserve. She had no sympathy for anyone else. Why should we have any for her now? When one considers the suffering she deliberately caused there is a long long way to go before there is balance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Aug 08 - 09:08 PM

"She had no sympathy for anyone else. Why should we have any for her now? "

If, as you seem to claim, she was inhumane, that means (to you) that you, in turn must also be inhumane.

It seems it is not only Maggie that needs our sympathy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:26 AM

I want this old buzzard to live until she is 100. I want her to have periods of remission and regain her senses. I want her to reflect on her hate of the working class, the Irish and the Argentinians.

She was a bastard, simple as that, she ensured a bunch of thieves in white shirts fleeced the country and feathered their nests.

As for the support she has on this thread, Christ look who it's from !

Washed up and jumped up come to mind.

F. her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:55 AM

Strangely enough she ignited something within the tory party. My Aunt, was a tory councillor for years, and was quite apalled by her - and longed for a return to the 'one nation' toryism of MacMillan and co. But the die was cast.

However what every other tory you speak to, seems to find inadequate about every subsequent leader is that they are NOT Thatcherite enough.

I go along with Richard Bridge. She was an extremely charismatic person.

And I use 'charismatic' in the sense my old sociology lecturer did - someone who changes society.

None of the other leaders available at the time (whom it has to be said she only narrowly defeated by means of dirty tricks from the Spycatcher gang) would have done things her way.

I think her biggest tragedy was that she was unable to work with the men of talent and integrity in her party - Hesseltine, John MacGregor, 'the Wets' - and she coralled alot of yesmen and no hopers to act as cyphers for for her policies Keith Joseph, Kenny Baker, Lawson, Whitelaw - absolute tripehounds the lot. So when she did go - there was a total vacuum at the top in the tory party. Also - surely better people around her would have moderated the disatrous social effects of her reign.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 05:28 AM

I hope she's paying her way and not depending on the State and the taxpayer to look after her!


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 07:29 AM

Amazing the comments that crawl out of the woodwork on threads like this.... I feel sorry for the woman and moreso her family.... whatever she did in the past.. As the saying goes... "There but for the grace of God go I".... I wonder how many people in her position would have done exactly the same... or perhaps messed up even worse????????
I hope Maggie and her family cope with this problem adequately... Best wishes to them all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 07:36 AM

GuestMiner633:
"As for the support she has on this thread, Christ look who it's from !"

If you're referring to me perhaps you can share what you think you know about me. Or are you just making assumptions based on the fact that I have voted Conservative?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 08:08 AM

Has dementia NOW? To quote Dorothy Parker on Coolidge:

"How can you tell?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 08:25 AM

' I wonder how many people in her position would have done exactly the same'

I think very few. When I worked at British Leyland in the late 1960's, the workmen complained that they were having to work with 60 year old plant.

There was a choice - what to do with with once in a millenium bonanza money from North sea oil.

We have yet to really to get to grips with Thatcher's legacy. Instead of updating British manufacturing industry with all its archaic practices and attitudes - she had the idea of discarding it totally.

Now whether this works in the long term - we have a long time to find out. No use casting Blair and Brown as disciples of Thatcher - they are just living in her shadow. - living with what she destroyed and created.

A friend of mine is a buyer and deals with the Chines and Indonesian and New Zealand factories all the time. Could such high tech, high skilled jobs have been created in England - the sad truth is that we never even tried.

Those old attitudes beat us from every direction. Thatcher was part of that. But a revolutionary thinker of the process.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 08:38 AM

Georgiansilver "I feel sorry for the woman and moreso her family.... whatever she did in the past.."

Sorry it doesn't work that way in life. A few old guys from Europe headed to South America and Britain sixty years ago and people pursued them. A certain bearded guy was issuing rubs for aches and pains in the mountains of Bosnia up until recently. Please don't give this serpent respectability.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:47 AM

Her legacy is that she broke with the concensus, which needed doing, but not in her way. That is my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:20 AM

Guest Miner633 I guess that's where we differ as people.... whatever someones politics were or whatever their mistakes in life... I don't see fit to judge or condemn them.... I tend also to look at Politics as a seperate issue to peoples health.... I feel sorry for anyone who is suffering, or a member of whose family is suffering from dementia or any other serious illness.... whoever they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:22 AM

Georgiansilver, you may recall what SHE did to the health service in the mid eighties.

It's payback.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:36 AM

There is no payback ....suffering is just suffering. we don't need it for anybody.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 12:01 PM

There are some real poisonous bastards posting on this thread. I hope it happens to you too, those who rejoice at the suffering of a fellow human.
Let he/she, who is without sin cast the first stone!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 12:28 PM

I think this thread should be closed.

What purpose is it serving, other than to encourage those who love to hate, over to Mudcat?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: The Villan
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 02:34 PM

>>Let he/she, who is without sin cast the first stone!!! <<

What is a sin, if you are not religious?


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:13 PM

Here we go again. Guest poster winds up the members by the use of bile and vitriol, applied in liberal quantities. Come on guys, we've been around here long enough to know the answer - ignore the flamer.

FWIW, I'm with WLD and Georgiansilver. She has a far higher power than us to answer to when she finally gets there. Rather her than me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: jacqui.c
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:33 PM

I think that she did what she thought was right at the time. Whether that was correct I don't know but I would like to see those who slate her so much do better.

Having seen two beloved grandparents go through this I would not wish this on any family. If I ever get to that stage and are aware, at times of what is happening, I will do my best to take myself out as painlessly as possible.

I hope I never get nasty enough to wish such a fate on anyone else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Peace
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:36 PM

Ditto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 03:54 PM

Expressing joy in someone elses pain shows us more about who the troll is than the quality of the person suffering.


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Mudcat time: 26 May 9:43 AM EDT

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