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Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)

The Shambles 08 Mar 01 - 05:03 AM
Callie at work 07 Mar 01 - 07:40 PM
Art Thieme 07 Mar 01 - 07:34 PM
mousethief 07 Mar 01 - 06:58 PM
GUEST 07 Mar 01 - 05:29 PM
Art Thieme 07 Mar 01 - 05:14 PM
catspaw49 07 Mar 01 - 04:43 PM
katlaughing 07 Mar 01 - 04:03 PM
Don Firth 07 Mar 01 - 03:59 PM
Allan C. 07 Mar 01 - 12:44 PM
Art Thieme 07 Mar 01 - 12:43 PM
GUEST 07 Mar 01 - 12:42 PM
wysiwyg 07 Mar 01 - 12:09 PM
wdyat12 07 Mar 01 - 11:58 AM
GUEST,Rich 07 Mar 01 - 10:44 AM
Steve Latimer 25 May 99 - 03:09 PM
hank 24 May 99 - 09:37 AM
Penny S. 22 May 99 - 09:07 PM
Rick Fielding 22 May 99 - 02:30 PM
Perdition express 22 May 99 - 02:05 PM
bbc 22 May 99 - 01:46 PM
The Shambles 22 May 99 - 09:57 AM
Cuilionn 22 May 99 - 09:43 AM
bbc 22 May 99 - 08:41 AM
The Shambles 21 May 99 - 08:03 PM
Fadac 21 May 99 - 05:20 PM
bbc 21 May 99 - 05:03 PM
The Shambles 21 May 99 - 11:31 AM
Rick Fielding 21 May 99 - 11:24 AM
Allan C. 21 May 99 - 10:11 AM
hank 21 May 99 - 09:18 AM
Allan C. 21 May 99 - 06:59 AM
MudGuard 21 May 99 - 03:41 AM
catspaw49 21 May 99 - 02:59 AM
Penny S. 21 May 99 - 02:33 AM
Mark Roffe 21 May 99 - 02:07 AM
John in Brisbane 21 May 99 - 12:21 AM
katlaughing 20 May 99 - 09:00 PM
kb 20 May 99 - 08:42 PM
annamill 20 May 99 - 12:35 PM
kb 20 May 99 - 10:06 AM
Wolfgang 20 May 99 - 08:51 AM
John in Brisbane 20 May 99 - 07:46 AM
Rick Fielding 20 May 99 - 07:45 AM
Allan C. 20 May 99 - 06:50 AM
John Hindsill 19 May 99 - 10:46 PM
BK 19 May 99 - 09:55 PM
katlaughing 19 May 99 - 07:20 PM
Rick Fielding 19 May 99 - 05:35 PM
SeanM 19 May 99 - 01:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Mar 01 - 05:03 AM

There is a part two


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Callie at work
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 07:40 PM

What do you get when you cross a Jehovah's Witness and a Hell's Angel?

Someone who knocks on your door and then tells YOU to f%#@ off!!

I'm always polite to religious door-knocking folk. But I always wonder what would happen if I knocked on their door and asked if I could possibly persuade them that my musical preference is the ONLY musical preference worth having and that THEIR musical preference would not lead to their musical salvation.

Then I could leave them some cds - maybe some Charles Mingus and Tanahill Weavers. Maybe even leave some sheet music after pointing out the beauty of major seventh chords and why a tierce de picardy should be used sparingly.

How many people would tolerate my musical evangelism?

A story to finish. Two salesmen came to our work selling credit cards of some kind. They were so nervous that they kept apologising and stuttering. I felt very sorry for them and explained that if they wanted to sell their product they would have to smarten up their act. I asked them to go outside and enter again - this time with feeling! They did so and were much better the second time. I wasn't interested in buying of course, so they left empty-handed!

Callie


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 07:34 PM

I wrote that song--yes. And nowhere in it did I call you a Nazi.

I still think there was no reason at all to Impeach Bill just because he got a blowjob and said it hadn't happened. God damn, I would've said the same thing over and over ad infinitum.

And now the party you are defending has STOLEN the election in the U.S. of A. Is that Gestapo tactics or what?

If the foo shits...


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: mousethief
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 06:58 PM


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 05:29 PM

"Now that there's no USSR
To hate "legitimately"
And since Ed Murrow slew Joe McCarthy
And he's rotting away harmlessly
It's to hell with bipartisanship
That's show we're all humanity
Let's dig up crooked Richard Nixon
To revel in this new prosperity.

And add to the list Adolph Hitler
The haters'd love to see him strut
And good old General Franco
Those were the days, sure enough
Repeal all the Civil Rights advances
And Social Security help
'Cause HISTORY, IT NEVER HAPPENED!
AND HARD TIMES ARE YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT!

So, it's impeachment time in Georgia"


So wanting Clinton removed from office for offences that even the venerable Sen Byrd deemed worhty of impeachment=affinity for Hitler.

This thread was recalled at the time we were wrestling the issue of how offensive it was to some on the forum to be referred to as "Folk Nazis"

One man's hyperbole is another man's...


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 05:14 PM

atheist = Someone with no invisible means of support.

John/GUEST, When and where did I say you or anybody was a Nazi??

Kat, when the Witnesses threatened to divide my family and shun my son------well, that was when we had a big fight--to say the least. It's a long story. But that was a few years ago. Things are cool now as long as we don't talk spiritual/philosophical/religious stuff. If we did, the dung would hit the fan for sure. (Deja-merde all over again.) We agree to disagree.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 04:43 PM

Hey Art...... Tell Carol that I really don't mind Jehovah's Witnesses, but any aversion I have to them is genetic I think. Its the Italian side of me. Italians don't like ANY witnesses.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 04:03 PM

Glad you mentioned that song, Art. You know me, very non-Christian, but I've learned that song, from you, and sing it quite often in PalTalk.

Still, when I see someone at my door who is obviously proselytising, unbidden, they've already made assumptions about me (the perception that I may need to be saved) and as is my right, I will have assumptions about them thinking that about me, so I will not be inclined to do anything but tell them I am not interested and close the door.

Meaning no offence to Carol, Art,

kat


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 03:59 PM

Back in the mists of antiquity when I was an English major at the University of Washington, I took a course called "The Bible as Literature." No religion was discussed in the class; that was left up to each individual student's beliefs. The prof discussed the literary form being used (poem, short story, essay, etc.) and we read the assigned sections as such, reading a short story as a short story, not as a loosely connected collection of verses. The only thing that may have touched on religion -- actually, it did, pretty heavily in my mind at least -- was that the prof put things into historical context. Anyway, this stood me in good stead for what was to come later.

I spent a year in a hospital in Denver, undergoing some extensive physical therapy, and during that time, one of my roommates was a Fundamentalist minister. He tried to save the souls of everyone in the hospital, me included. And I couldn't get away from him because we slept in the same room! We had several extensive discussions, and it soon became evident that I knew more about the Bible than he did!. When he quoted a verse or two out of context in an effort to prove a point, I was able to respond, "No, Reverend, that's not what that means." and then I explained it to him! I suggested to him several times that he really needed to read the Bible more carefully, because he was making a mess of it. He soon left me alone and went to work on a Mormon down the hall (no luck there, either).

I've always heard that faith is a gift from God. Even if you have the gift, I don't think you can give it to somebody else by trying to cram it down their throat.

I heard an interesting quote a few months ago: "Reading the Bible doesn't make you a Christian any more than reading Louis L'Amour makes you a cowboy."

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 12:44 PM

Here are some links to other related discussions:

How Do You Handle Telemarketers?

Help - I want my privacy back


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 12:43 PM

To get back to music:

Please check out a song that I was priviledged to be the first one to record -- on Sandy Paton's Folk Legacy-----"The Master Of The Sheepfold".

Basically it says that there is room for everyone no matter what your philosophy/religion or lack thereof.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 12:42 PM

Art Thieme,

When you equated people of my political persuasion to Nazis I posted to you that I was offended. You responded:

"John, I'm certain you're a good guy. Nothing personal was intended."

Maybe you and your sense of being offended were due a more patronizing answer than the lengthy and thoughtful post offered by Rick Fielding.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 12:09 PM

I have this image of one unique human being on each side of the door. Each one, in this little vision, is about to treat the other as if they just popped out of a cookie-cutter mold, made of whatever assumptions each one has accumulated about the world and the people in it.

Not how I'd like things to be. Not how I try to treat people, or like to be treated.

How about you?

~S~


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: wdyat12
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 11:58 AM

One afternoon while siphoning off several carboys of various wines I was producing for home consumption, I heard a knock on my back door. I was feeling pretty good after tasting wine all afternoon, so I went to the door and invited in two ladies who were carrying armloads of religious material. While standing in my kitchen, the older of the two ladies acted as is she didn't see all the mess of winemaking all over the floor and she began her shpeil. The younger lady who was blind just listened and sniffed around. I listened attentively sipping a glass of cranberry wine. I was wrestling with the question of whether or not I should offer these ladies some of my home brew. The older lady, seizing an opportunity, read me the parable of Jesus turning water into wine and some other quotes about all sorts of wickedness. I thought this situation amusing, me being caught in my hour of wickedness by two church ladies. When a lull in the conversation arose, the younger lady spoke up. "May I taste the wine you are making?" the other lady asked to try some too. I immediately went to the cupboard and retreived two more wineglasses, filled them halfway, and presented my finest wine to them with anticipation. I realized that I had an oportunity here to convert these lost souls to a normal sinful life. The ladies were quite impressed with the cranberry wine and I offered them another glass, which they accepted without hesitation. The conversation took a turn from that moment on. They asked me all sorts of questions about winemaking. When the ladies finally left, they gave me all sorts of religious publications and thanked me for a lovely afternoon. The younger blind lady had to help the other lady out the door.

Moral of the story: We would not have had such a lovely afternoon if I had slammed the door in their faces.

wdyat12


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: GUEST,Rich
Date: 07 Mar 01 - 10:44 AM

I don't feel any need to apologize to religious proselytizers (is that a word?)
I don't have a lot of respect for people who don't know me, don't really care about me, and won't remember me 6 months from now-- but who profess to feel great love for me.

As musicians, we don't all hear the music the same way. And certainly we don't all play in the same style, or with the same degrees of complexity.

Likewise, there are many paths to understanding God - Yahweh, The Great Spirit, the Oneness --whatever is your perception of the God principle.
From my former life as a Christian, I believe the strongest commandment is still, for me : Love thy neighbor. Today that means everyone in the world, and it means respecting their choice of philosophy, so long as it does not cause harm to others.

My thoughts, anyway

Rich McCarthy


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 25 May 99 - 03:09 PM

I am not going to got too deeply into my beliefs, but I was raised in the Catholic Church. While questioning a lot of the bible as a teen, I was told by a priest "The Bible is a book written by the people of that time for the people of that time" he went on to say that it was message of God's love that we should be paying attention rather than taking it absolutely literally. I believe in God, I believe that if you live your life trying to do well and good, you will be rewarded. There are those who believe that Mother Teresa isn't in heaven as she was not a member of the "right" church. Sorry, I don't buy it.

Being in the computer business, many telemarketers expect me and my co-horts to be wealthy and we are beseiged with calls from people selling things like time shares, mutual funds etc. One of the fellows in my office came up with one that not only stops them cold but takes his name right off their prospect list. His little white lie is "Gee, I'd love to help you, but I've just declared personal bankruptcy" he never hears back.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: hank
Date: 24 May 99 - 09:37 AM

Just felt to comment on the armies of the Lord accusation (more people are killed in/by that one than any other) Unfortunatly this is true, but only if you accept that an army claiming to be the Lords, led by those claiming to know the Lord really are. If you read the bible it will become clear that not all of those armies over history were. Once in a while there is a need to go to war, but love and war don't go togather, and the Lord claims to be Love.

I thought the Shambles verse stood alone better then it would with any explination. Besides Shambles explination about sin in childeren, I can think of several more. I don't think i'll list them because it would do you better to try to find them yourself, and perhaps then you will find one I missed. Besides, one of them hits a bit close, and I need to take warning.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Penny S.
Date: 22 May 99 - 09:07 PM

Thanks Joe. I'm learning bit by bit.

Penny


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 May 99 - 02:30 PM

Love it, perdition. bring your wicked irony to the "danger..ignore" thread.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Perdition express
Date: 22 May 99 - 02:05 PM

" Quote not the word of God to unhearing ears " Hebediah 1:3. Works more often than not as they turn away, muttering and looking in the index for the book of Hebediah.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: bbc
Date: 22 May 99 - 01:46 PM

Thanks, Shambles.

bbc


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 May 99 - 09:57 AM

Yes it is the first time I have ever used a quote from the bible. I found it when I was surfing on a Quakers site for children.

In was in respose to an earlier strand in this thread, about whether our children were filled with sin. It seem to make the point better than I could.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Cuilionn
Date: 22 May 99 - 09:43 AM

Och, we ocht tae become like wee bairns, aye? Och, aye! Bairns, while they micht nae allus be kind, dinnae spend time plottin' th' conversion o' ither folks...they're mair likely tae be discoverin' sumpin' holy in th' cracks o' th' sidewalk or standin' afore a dandelion in absolute awe. I dinnae want tae abide by a faith whae's incompatible wi' jumprope games an' spaghettioes, an' th' anely kind o' "religious" conversation I'd be willin' tae "impose" on anither person is tae ask 'em sumpin' like "Dinnae ye think this plaice is amazin'?!? Dinnae ye think a' this is entirely amazin'?!?

--Cuilionn, jumpin' aff her soapbox tae gae play in th' dirt


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: bbc
Date: 22 May 99 - 08:41 AM

Fadac,

I appreciated your post. I am employed now, but it was a long haul & it helped me empathize w/ others who might not have the options I did. Shambles, you've stopped us dead w/ the Bible quote. I have no idea what your point is. Care to expand?

bbc


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 May 99 - 08:03 PM

Unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter into the kingdom of heaven". Matthew 18:3.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Fadac
Date: 21 May 99 - 05:20 PM

BBC, Yup, you hit the nail on the head. We have freedom in this country as long as, you go to MY church, Sit on MY side of the church, drive My kind of car, wear MY kind of clothes. Now we need to talk about your tie.

I think this goes back to the caveman, Our cave vs. your cave. Remember more people have died in the Army of the Lord than all the other armys on earth.

Been out of work myself. Even got a "no thanks" letter fron Disnyland. (as a technican) Couldn't get a job as a dishwasher. Ended up flipping burgers at Jack in the Box, then drove truck (again). Now I'm back into Computer systems, but it was real dry back in Illionise in the early 80's.

Hang in there, keep swining, something will come along.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: bbc
Date: 21 May 99 - 05:03 PM

Hi, folks,

I read all the posts up to last night & I feel the need to add my thoughts. I think I'll just put 'em down, rather than trying to get fancy.

It is a basic tenet of some faiths that they are the only true way. If the adherents believe that, they have a responsibility to try to share that faith. Their goal is only to help & I don't think we should fault them for that. Refraining from answering the door or a simple "I'm not interested" would suffice.

Here at Mudcat, we are posting to a broad group. I was criticized once in the past for thinking before I post, but I will stand by the practice. I think it speaks more of consideration than dishonesty. It is possible to express a view without belittling or attacking. We wouldn't deliberately hurt Joe or Art, but we are less considerate of those we don't know personally. In a community as large as ours, we are bound to have Jehovah's Witnesses or, at least, Mormons, as Jon reminded us. Why step on toes, when there are so many other things we can discuss?

Many call themselves broadminded, but it might be appropriate to consider whether they are only broadminded toward those whose beliefs/practices are similar to their own?

I usually don't open my door to anyone I don't know, for fear of violence. I've been known to screen phone calls or to be short or even rude to telemarketers, due to a hectic schedule & a disinclination to commit to any transaction over the phone. Lately, though, after a 2-year bout of unemployment, it has occurred to me that most folks probably don't choose telemarketing as a vocation. They are just folks who need to make a living, like the rest of us, & probably deserve the same common courtesy that we'd want in their place.

Guess I can climb off my soapbox now.

bbc


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 May 99 - 11:31 AM

John in Brisbane.

Thank you for your last contribution, I laughed so much it hurts and I am still chuckling.

What Catspaw says about thinking of the right thing to reply, usually too late, reminded me of wish that I used to think would be useful. It was for the ability to stop time, the instant after the original remark was made, to give you all the time in the world to consider your reply. Having then thought of the most brilliant response you could come up with, after consultation with reference books to check facts and quotations, you just click your fingers, time starts again and you deliver your answer...........But then what? I never really thought it through any further, but I suppose it could lead to trouble, couldn't it?

There was one occasion recently, when I did get it SO right at the time and it was an answer I gave to a tele-sales person. Poor soul (Apologies in advance to all who ply this trade). The conversation went something like this.

Salesperson: Hello, I am from ---- ---- and can I ask you just one question?
Me : Yes
Salesperson: Well, ......
Me : That was it....... Goodbye.
Salesperson: BUT!

I suspect that there may now be a change to the opening pitch?


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 May 99 - 11:24 AM

Alan, after reading the last few entries on the "our friend the gun" threads, I was about to go out to the garden and have a meaningful discussion with some large rocks, when the computer automatically sent me here (well I did push a button or two) and I saw your post. Thank you, voice of sanity.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 May 99 - 10:11 AM

I feel compelled to paste here a post from the Funny Bumper Sticker thread: Adamant Agnostic - I don't know the answer and neither do you!

I think back to high school, when there were those in my class who somehow KNEW what they wanted to be in the adult world. I marveled at this phenomenon! How could these fifteen-year-olds possibly really know? I later realized that they didn't. Some of them actually followed the path of their choosing all the way into a career. Perhaps some of those were even happy because of it. Maybe this was the proof that they were somehow "right" at fifteen. I think of it more as a manifestation of blind faith.

I marvel similarly at those who are even more convinced that they have "the answer" to questions of religion/philosophy or whatever. I see a parallel here. Each of us can only see the present and the past. Most other things must be dealt with on faith. We each arrive at some point where we find for ourselves something in which to place that faith. It is an extremely personal choice. Yes, it is often influenced by one thing or another. But ultimately the question of where to place our faith is ours. Do we then have "the answer"? Yes. Or maybe, no. We each only know what we have decided to know.

I love to discuss possible choices with folks who know that "I don't know the answer and neither do you!" The rest can take a hike.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: hank
Date: 21 May 99 - 09:18 AM

Well kb, I have to disagree with your comment about adam and Eve. I won't argue that people are filled with sin, but it our choices. (ANd I don't think a two year old can make a choice to sin, though a en year old could. I would never accuse anyone of being a sinner unless I knew of a specific sin, AND by pointing out the sin I could help that person)

Just because Eve was the first to sin does not mean that if she hadden't we would all be living sin free in the garden of eden. She could make the wrong decisions, and her decendants could have done it too. Would they have? I don't know, but I tend to think that someplace along the way someone would have.

I have enough sins of my own, without adding on a sin that I wasn't even around for. Fortuntly I beleive in a loving God who doesn't want to give me the punishment I deserve, and made provision for that. (Rather strange way to do it, but I'm not complaining)

PS, yes I know that we are marked in some way, but that doesn't say marked with sin, rather marked because of the sin. We don't have to add that sin unto ourself.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 May 99 - 06:59 AM

Catspaw, let me just say (perhaps for all of us) that it is so very good to "hear" your voice again!


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: MudGuard
Date: 21 May 99 - 03:41 AM

Catspaw,
what a joy! You are back here!
Very glad to see you posting again!!!!!
Andreas


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 May 99 - 02:59 AM

Well, I've read this sucker and I can't as yet figure if this is a thread that's going to hell or a thread about going to hell or about every salesman's personal hell, the cold call. But I do have a couple of comments anyway.

All the discussion about atheist/theist(JH) beliefs has had to remind some of us of the old saw:

A Philosopher is a blind man looking for an imaginary black cat in a dark room. The theologian finds the cat. The atheist comes along and also finds the cat, but declares it to be an imaginary and dead dog instead. The agnostic cannot find a light switch, figures what he can't see to be a bottomless chasm, throws in a can of catfood anyway, says "Screw It" and goes happily along still uninformed as to the unknowable.

I also find the witnesing types to be basically friendly and innocuous, and I have to thank them for one of my best lines. So often, we come up with a good line, but only a few minutes too late. 25 years ago, I had spent the day hiking with a close friend around Cumberland Falls and enjoyed a day filled with the best nature has to offer. As we approached our car in the parking lot, a couple of Witnesses came up with "WatchTowers" in hand and asked, "Do you want to read about Jesus?" I replied, "No thanks, I got Batman in the truck."

Telemarketers......either just say no and cut it off, or play with them awhile, and there's lots of fun things to do to a telemarketer. Just get them off their flow chart and you're all set. "We offer a complete basement dryout and deodorizing service." Really? I've got some odd smells, so maybe if I put down some fresh cement you could seal it and you know..... (The police may arrive wanting a look in your basement) OR..."What kind of windows does your home have?" Uh, glass? What kind do you have? "No, I mean, what frames your windows?" Well basically the walls do. "NO...What is the part around the glass that isn't wall?" I dunno, the guy didn't say. "What guy?" The guy who put them in. "You have new windows?" Yeah, why?.....and on and on you go. If you need ideas write me. I just love messing with their minds, tiny as they may be.

catspaw


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Penny S.
Date: 21 May 99 - 02:33 AM

Kb, I think you are going to get more listeners if you say what attracts you to Jesus, and what his friendship means to you than basing your argument on sin and the threat of hell. One of the points about eternity is that whatever it is, it is not any sort of time, so saying that it is a long one is beside the point. We cannot know what it is going to be like. You are supposed to tell us that, through Christ, we can know what God is like. He said that. And, fig trees aside, he was not someone who I sense was ready to write people off, or to set up what Rabbi Lionel Blue has called a concentration camp from which there is no exit. And, if I am wrong, and God is like that, then God is not worthy of love or worship. Which is not what I know in prayer. God has not drawn me by threats, but by love.
HTML tags closing bold </b> added. Put the slash before the b.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Mark Roffe
Date: 21 May 99 - 02:07 AM

When I was young I was rude to Jehova's Witnesses a few times, but as I developed, I found that they were usually pretty nice people to chat with. Nowadays we usually enjoy each other's company and marvel at our acceptance of each other's differences, I take a Watchtower to read (there's usually something thought-provoking in there), and I usually offer my bathroom for a pit stop. I figure it's tough enough going to door-to-door and getting doors slammed in their faces for doing what they believe in, without having to deal with having to go pee at the same time. I figure that even if we don't practice the same details about how to have faith, we're still all just folks in this world together.

Mark Roffe


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 21 May 99 - 12:21 AM

For completeness I should add to the list:

KB View of Christianity: Shit happens at birth, but only Jesus can free us of this. People, other than Jesus, are free to handle the shit in any way they wish, but should be warned that there is only one brand of shit remover with a perpetual warranty.

Regards
John


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 May 99 - 09:00 PM

Yea, but you already didkb! Enough said.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: kb
Date: 20 May 99 - 08:42 PM

Being the atheist that you proclaim to be you aren't going to believe anything that I say, but here goes anyway: About your children having been accused of being filled with sin, according to the beliefs of Christianity, since Adam and Eve chose to sin, everyone alive save Jesus, has been filled with sin from birth until such time as each of us allows Jesus to free us of the guilt for that sin. Hey, you seem to be intelligent enough to understand the plan of salvation and I'm sure you have heard it over and over until you are rather sick of hearing of it. It seems that you just can't believe it. You have the right to believe anything that you believe and I don't believe that I, or anyone has the right to continue to badger you about it. I believe that we have the obligation to tell everyone about Jesus at least ONE TIME.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: annamill
Date: 20 May 99 - 12:35 PM

Hi,

Now I'm an Atheist and a firm believer in humanity and all kinds of life. This does not mean that I'm a murder or a pervert. In fact, I love the teachings of Christ and have more than once given my shirt to one who has stolen from me because obviously his need is greater than mine. I used to answer the door and be polite to JW people. I have tried to explain to them that on me it was totally wasted. I think the thing that really turned me off and made me curt was one phrase that curdled my stomach. I was told in no uncertain terms that my children, who at that time were 10 years and 2 years old, were filled with sin. Now maybe their idea of sin was different from mine, atheist that I am. I told them that that statement had made me very angry and I didn't want to speak tho them any longer. They continued. I became rude, which to me meant closing the door. Since that time, I've have never allowed a conversation to begin.

Interestingly enough, my daughter, Amy, who is 31 and has three children of her own is a born-again Christian. I allowed my children to make up their own minds about God. She and I have a truce. I respect her feelings, and she respects mine. Religion is not usually something we discuss.

My son, James, is an Atheist. He's not a murder or pervert either. At least I don't think he is!! Mothers are always the last to know, you know. ;-) He's beautiful to me.

This has become a very interesting thread and I just wanted to put in my two cents.

Annap


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: kb
Date: 20 May 99 - 10:06 AM

John in Brisbane You may be right, but here's one you need to add to your list: kb says, "Eternity is forever and that's a long, long time." kb


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 May 99 - 08:51 AM

Sorry, folks, for intruding this thread with a link to music, but I think some might like to read the recently posted The Knock-on-the-door-in-the-night Squad

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 20 May 99 - 07:46 AM

Just to make sure that I don't discriminate in my prejudice, here's a complete list of dogma espoused by door knockers:

Regards John

Taoism: Shit happens.
Confucianism: Confucius say: "Shit happens".
Buddhism: If shit happens, it's not really shit.
Islam: If shit happens, it's the will of Allah.
Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
Hinduism: This shit happened in my last life too.
Protestantism: Shit happens cause you don't work hard enough.
Catholicism: Shit happens because you are bad.
Zen: What is the sound of one shit happening?
Moonies: Only happy shit happens.
Christian Science: Shit is in your mind.
Agnosticism: Maybe shit happens, maybe it doesn't.
Jehova's Witnesses: Let us in and we'll tell you why shit happens.
Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit.
Hare Krishna: Shit Happens, Shit Happens, Shit Shit Happens Happens, Shit Happens, Rama Rama.
Atheism: No shit.


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 May 99 - 07:45 AM

My late (and missed) Dad used to say "Ricky" it's rude to ask a man (this was the fifties) about his politics, his religion, and his income!" Whoah! I wonder what he'd say about mudcat! He didn't know I'd become a musician, so he probably assumed I'd HAVE an income!


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Allan C.
Date: 20 May 99 - 06:50 AM

Whenever anyone asks me what religion I adhere to, I usually answer, "I'm a Confirmed Pedestrian." They often back away with questionmarks in their eyes. But at least they back away!


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: John Hindsill
Date: 19 May 99 - 10:46 PM

Just you wait BK. Some Reform Jewish groups are considering proselytizing. Hope it never happens. -- John


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: BK
Date: 19 May 99 - 09:55 PM

Tried discussion; when younger & had time, it worked; this technique even sent a poor arctic circle native, just finishing training to go home as a missionary, off in tears (later felt guilty abt that, but some of my friends who were very religious sent him to me as a sort of joke & test for him, really poor idea..).

Now I have very little time & no patience for anyone - if they are grossly insensitive to my right as an American to choose my own beliefs & what I will listen to. (When I have time, may be anything - I'm a Unitarian now, no limits!)

Having said that, I must say a lot of good friends are very religious, & from various religions - Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Muslim, B'Hai, etc... I only desire that they give me my Rights as above. Very often, sweetie 'n me agree w/their moral stance on a wide variety of issues.

My wife & I think that we, like the Mudcat, are best when we are "tolerant" (I don't always like what that word SEEMS to imply, at times) - better yet, cherish the uniqueness - of a wide variety of people & viewpoints. It's the intolerant, grossly disrespectful proselytizing that gets my hackles up. - & also USING kids as tools... My jewish friends NEVER proselytize...

Cheers, BK


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 May 99 - 07:20 PM

rick....you stole that from Art, didnja!!! Oh, well, his lyrics ARE a little different....huh, okay, nevermind!**BG**


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 May 99 - 05:35 PM

"Had a rotwieler, and his name was Blue.
Betcha five dollars he could eat you too.
Chew up your carcass, spit out the bones.
He's a whole lotta muscle and dog hormones.

Yo Blue, yer a good dog you.

just trying to put a bit of music in.
rick


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Subject: RE: Religious (or otherwise) Doorknockers. (BS)
From: SeanM
Date: 19 May 99 - 01:03 PM

Good for you, Penny!

Talk about Thread creep, though...

Had a very similar experience with a Rottweiler in my home town. Ended up winning as I was bigger and scarier than it was. Stared it into submission, and then was chewed out by the owner for 'frightening his poor dog'. We exchanged a few choice words on the subjects of guard dogs being loose on public streets (and maybe one or two on the owner's matrimonial lineage), and I toddled on my happy way to have a few words with the local police.

M


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