mudcat.org: BS: The last days of Thatcher
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: The last days of Thatcher

Related threads:
Lyr Req: Dedicated Follower of Thatcher (21)
BS: What qualities in Thatcher do you admire (130)
BS: Iron lady (100)
BS: Where now Thatcher haters? (453)
BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!! (204)
BS: Thatcher expenses (72)
BS: Nasty Thatcher rightly calls Palin nuts? (113)
BS: Margaret Thatcher's Birthday-13 Oct 1925 (149)
BS: Meryl Streep as Thatcher (37)
Mrs Thatcher's March by Vladimir O'Leary (1)
BS:Thatcher's Legacy (31)
carol thatcher death threats (281)
BS: Margaret Thatcher meets mudcatter (90)
BS: Mrs Thatcher had dementia (89) (closed)
BS: Thatcher is finally finished! (32)
BS: Who Should Play Thatcher ?. (51)
BS: Was Thatcher right? (125)
BS: Happy Birthday Mrs Thatcher-13 Oct 1925 (165)
Obit: thatcher (not) dead (55)
BS: Mrs Thatcher, the glory years. (27)
BS: Margaret Thatcher (43) (closed)
BS: Thatchers Revenge (7) (closed)
BS: Maggie Thatcher Day (122) (closed)
BS: Thatcher Statue Beheaded (42) (closed)
BS: Thatcher speaks no more (116) (closed)
BS: Statecraft - More critique of Thatcher (2) (closed)
BS: Thatcher's statue (64) (closed)
BS: Margaret Thatcher-any comments? (168) (closed)


Bert Fegg 08 Mar 08 - 01:00 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM
Leadfingers 08 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM
Rog Peek 08 Mar 08 - 01:19 PM
Bert Fegg 08 Mar 08 - 01:44 PM
John MacKenzie 08 Mar 08 - 01:52 PM
Bert Fegg 08 Mar 08 - 02:03 PM
John MacKenzie 08 Mar 08 - 02:04 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 08 Mar 08 - 02:06 PM
Megan L 08 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM
Geoff the Duck 08 Mar 08 - 02:18 PM
Bat Goddess 08 Mar 08 - 02:25 PM
John MacKenzie 08 Mar 08 - 02:28 PM
Bert Fegg 08 Mar 08 - 02:41 PM
Leadfingers 08 Mar 08 - 02:42 PM
Rapparee 08 Mar 08 - 02:46 PM
Megan L 08 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM
sapper82 08 Mar 08 - 03:26 PM
gnu 08 Mar 08 - 03:31 PM
sapper82 08 Mar 08 - 03:35 PM
Fred McCormick 08 Mar 08 - 04:03 PM
bobad 08 Mar 08 - 04:12 PM
John MacKenzie 08 Mar 08 - 04:15 PM
autolycus 08 Mar 08 - 04:16 PM
sapper82 08 Mar 08 - 04:24 PM
Bill D 08 Mar 08 - 04:26 PM
John MacKenzie 08 Mar 08 - 04:37 PM
Rog Peek 08 Mar 08 - 04:44 PM
autolycus 08 Mar 08 - 04:46 PM
John MacKenzie 08 Mar 08 - 04:49 PM
autolycus 08 Mar 08 - 05:39 PM
John MacKenzie 08 Mar 08 - 05:42 PM
autolycus 08 Mar 08 - 05:52 PM
skarpi 08 Mar 08 - 05:57 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Mar 08 - 06:55 PM
Art Thieme 08 Mar 08 - 07:41 PM
alanabit 08 Mar 08 - 07:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Mar 08 - 07:59 PM
Richard Bridge 08 Mar 08 - 08:06 PM
GUEST,Gaz 08 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM
Teribus 08 Mar 08 - 08:12 PM
Art Thieme 08 Mar 08 - 08:16 PM
Teribus 08 Mar 08 - 08:19 PM
Peace 08 Mar 08 - 08:34 PM
Big Al Whittle 08 Mar 08 - 11:19 PM
Big Al Whittle 08 Mar 08 - 11:20 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Mar 08 - 12:11 AM
Riginslinger 09 Mar 08 - 12:15 AM
Ross Campbell 09 Mar 08 - 12:21 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Mar 08 - 04:05 AM
Dave Hanson 09 Mar 08 - 04:27 AM
Dave Hanson 09 Mar 08 - 06:02 AM
John MacKenzie 09 Mar 08 - 06:02 AM
Fred McCormick 09 Mar 08 - 06:13 AM
autolycus 09 Mar 08 - 06:15 AM
John MacKenzie 09 Mar 08 - 06:36 AM
GUEST,Jon 09 Mar 08 - 06:53 AM
Teribus 09 Mar 08 - 07:04 AM
Dave Hanson 09 Mar 08 - 07:24 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 08 - 07:28 AM
GUEST,Appaloosa Lady 09 Mar 08 - 07:35 AM
Big Al Whittle 09 Mar 08 - 07:54 AM
Teribus 09 Mar 08 - 08:39 AM
mandotim 09 Mar 08 - 08:42 AM
John MacKenzie 09 Mar 08 - 08:52 AM
autolycus 09 Mar 08 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,Appaloosa Lady 09 Mar 08 - 09:12 AM
mandotim 09 Mar 08 - 09:31 AM
John MacKenzie 09 Mar 08 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 09 Mar 08 - 09:43 AM
autolycus 09 Mar 08 - 10:19 AM
Big Phil 09 Mar 08 - 10:19 AM
Richard Bridge 09 Mar 08 - 10:34 AM
Mr Red 09 Mar 08 - 10:43 AM
Big Al Whittle 09 Mar 08 - 12:21 PM
Bert Fegg 09 Mar 08 - 02:08 PM
John MacKenzie 09 Mar 08 - 02:16 PM
Bert Fegg 09 Mar 08 - 02:24 PM
John MacKenzie 09 Mar 08 - 02:27 PM
Bert Fegg 09 Mar 08 - 02:32 PM
Megan L 09 Mar 08 - 02:34 PM
Jim Carroll 09 Mar 08 - 02:46 PM
Bert Fegg 09 Mar 08 - 02:49 PM
Bert Fegg 09 Mar 08 - 02:51 PM
John MacKenzie 09 Mar 08 - 03:21 PM
Bert Fegg 09 Mar 08 - 03:26 PM
autolycus 09 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM
skipy 09 Mar 08 - 07:24 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 08 - 03:53 AM
Big Al Whittle 10 Mar 08 - 04:23 AM
Teribus 10 Mar 08 - 05:22 AM
Big Al Whittle 10 Mar 08 - 06:05 AM
redsnapper 10 Mar 08 - 07:25 AM
Teribus 10 Mar 08 - 07:54 AM
Dave Hanson 10 Mar 08 - 09:20 AM
Teribus 10 Mar 08 - 11:38 AM
John MacKenzie 10 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM
Big Al Whittle 10 Mar 08 - 12:12 PM
John MacKenzie 10 Mar 08 - 12:39 PM
Teribus 10 Mar 08 - 12:42 PM
Megan L 10 Mar 08 - 12:45 PM
Teribus 10 Mar 08 - 12:56 PM
mandotim 10 Mar 08 - 01:05 PM
Bert Fegg 10 Mar 08 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,Mr Red and that ain't no political stance 10 Mar 08 - 02:47 PM
Richard Bridge 10 Mar 08 - 03:18 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Mar 08 - 03:43 PM
autolycus 10 Mar 08 - 04:40 PM
Art Thieme 10 Mar 08 - 04:55 PM
DougR 10 Mar 08 - 05:31 PM
Richard Bridge 10 Mar 08 - 07:12 PM
Rog Peek 10 Mar 08 - 08:08 PM
Richard Bridge 11 Mar 08 - 03:37 AM
GUEST,PMB 11 Mar 08 - 05:02 AM
freda underhill 11 Mar 08 - 05:47 AM
Teribus 11 Mar 08 - 10:03 AM
Dave Hanson 11 Mar 08 - 11:44 AM
Dave Hanson 11 Mar 08 - 11:47 AM
Stu 11 Mar 08 - 12:35 PM
Teribus 11 Mar 08 - 12:40 PM
Teribus 11 Mar 08 - 01:04 PM
GUEST,HiLo 11 Mar 08 - 01:20 PM
autolycus 11 Mar 08 - 01:50 PM
Folkiedave 11 Mar 08 - 01:56 PM
John MacKenzie 11 Mar 08 - 01:58 PM
Teribus 11 Mar 08 - 02:36 PM
John MacKenzie 11 Mar 08 - 02:44 PM
Teribus 11 Mar 08 - 04:20 PM
autolycus 11 Mar 08 - 04:39 PM
autolycus 11 Mar 08 - 04:54 PM
mandotim 12 Mar 08 - 04:03 AM
autolycus 12 Mar 08 - 05:43 PM
Teribus 12 Mar 08 - 06:41 PM
autolycus 12 Mar 08 - 06:59 PM
Jim Carroll 13 Mar 08 - 04:01 AM
Teribus 13 Mar 08 - 05:01 AM
Gervase 13 Mar 08 - 05:18 AM
GUEST,PMB 13 Mar 08 - 07:10 AM
Teribus 13 Mar 08 - 08:43 AM
GUEST,PMB 13 Mar 08 - 08:51 AM
Richard Bridge 13 Mar 08 - 09:10 AM
Teribus 13 Mar 08 - 10:12 AM
Dave Hanson 13 Mar 08 - 11:11 AM
Teribus 13 Mar 08 - 11:24 AM
Dave Hanson 13 Mar 08 - 11:47 AM
Dave Hanson 13 Mar 08 - 11:49 AM
Teribus 13 Mar 08 - 12:07 PM
Teribus 13 Mar 08 - 12:09 PM
theleveller 13 Mar 08 - 01:13 PM
Folkiedave 13 Mar 08 - 01:39 PM
Richard Bridge 13 Mar 08 - 01:46 PM
Richard Bridge 13 Mar 08 - 01:48 PM
GUEST,Appaloosa Lady 13 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM
autolycus 13 Mar 08 - 02:58 PM
GUEST,Appaloosa Lady 13 Mar 08 - 04:48 PM
Art Thieme 13 Mar 08 - 10:41 PM
Dave Hanson 14 Mar 08 - 03:50 AM
Richard Bridge 14 Mar 08 - 04:17 AM
Richard Bridge 14 Mar 08 - 04:18 AM
Jim Carroll 14 Mar 08 - 04:37 AM
theleveller 14 Mar 08 - 08:40 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 15 Mar 08 - 06:51 AM
Dave Hanson 15 Mar 08 - 08:19 AM
autolycus 15 Mar 08 - 09:11 AM
alanabit 15 Mar 08 - 09:46 AM
Jim Carroll 15 Mar 08 - 01:33 PM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:











Subject: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:00 PM

Just heard she's back with the mechanics again.

How will you celebrate when Thatcher pops her clogs?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM

Why blame Thatcher? Better to blame the minority of voters who put her in power, and kept her in power, and a daft electoral system that made that possible.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM

Its not in very good taste to suggest celebrating any one dying Bert - Even The Blessed Margaret !! Though I certainly wont go into mourning !


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Rog Peek
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:19 PM

I was only saying today, "I only hope Arthur is around to see it!" Oh, and also many of those who's lives and communities she ruined

Rog


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:44 PM

Of course it's not in good taste! The words 'Thatcher' and 'good taste' just don't strike a chord somehow.

Why blame Thatcher? McGrath clearly leads a new-town sheltered life.

Personally, I'm planning a mega bonfire and am hoping to invite Jeffrey Archer to sit on the top - I'll tell him it's a book-signing event.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:52 PM

Sick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:03 PM

Why's it 'sick'?

Wouldn't the world have been a better place if Thatcher had never been born (unless you're a yuppie in Wandworth)?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:04 PM

No


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:06 PM

Gee, I can hardly wait to post to "BS: The last days of Fegg."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Megan L
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM

Any so called human being who delights in the death of another is a waste of space.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:18 PM

I think you will find that the thousands of people whose livelihood was destroyed by the cruel machinations of Thatcher would have been mush happier if she had never existed.
Unfortunately the evil cow did.
I personally will have a small celebration on the day I find out that the world is finally rid of her.
I would be even happier if it followed a long period of painful illness where she might be able to reflect on the damage she did to the national health service amongst others. Sick! Not us.
Quack!
GtD.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:25 PM

Thatcher and Ronald Reagan made an ideal "couple".

Hard to believe that in this day of Bush fils, Ronald Reagan almost looks good. (No, that's wrong -- "comparatively less bad" would be more accurate.) Richard Nixon looks almost angelic. Arghhhhhhhh!!!!

Linn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:28 PM

At least your opinion is objective and not blinkered by dogma Linn.

G


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:41 PM

'Any so called human being who delights in the death of another is a waste of space.'

Tell that to the crew of the Belgrano.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:42 PM

So the Palestinians who celebrated the deaths of eight young scripture students were doing the right thing ?? NOT in my book !


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:46 PM

I will celebrate no one's death. I do not have to mourn them, however.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Megan L
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM

Or the Sir Galahad all on both sides young men with mothers sisters wives and sweethearts who mourned them


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: sapper82
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 03:26 PM

Given the state of the UK during the '70s thank god she got elected.
a lot of people were heartily pissed off with the antics of the Left during that time.

Regarding the Falklands, why not blame Galtieri? He was the one who ordered the invasion of the place.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: gnu
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 03:31 PM

I want my Falkland Islands back!

Was quite the joke back then. But, young men died. No joke.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: sapper82
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 03:35 PM

Agree Gnu and, as the BBC refused to show, she did weep over the lads who were lost. At least, thanks to her, the Argentine got rid of Galtieri. Had she not had the corouge to take that gamble he'd still be there.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:03 PM

And what about Pinochet? Would he have remained in power if Thatcher had anything to do with it? I was ecstatic last night, and I hope I am again, very soon.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: bobad
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:12 PM

Man, there sure are some hard hearted people around here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:15 PM

Socialism is supposed to be caring


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:16 PM

I liked the story told by one of her aides the other week on the Beeb.

The one time she went to the opera during her premiership, it was about Mozart. Now Mozart is believed to have had Tourette's syndrome.

After the performance, she said she loved the music, bur disliked all the swearing. Her host said it was historically accurate.

"No,no," she said,"With all that lovely music, the swearing was quite wrong."

her host patiently explained that Mozart h'd had tourette's syndrome.

She responded, "Didn't you hear what I said?"

    Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: sapper82
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:24 PM

So which Mozart opera has all the swearing? Or was this one of the "Modern" productions where the producer used the music to put forward his own political message?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:26 PM

We will soon be getting GW Bush out of office...THAT is a cause for celebration. He can go sit in Texas and contemplate how many people dislike him.....Thatcher has been doing that for a number of years, now.(well...not in Texas) Her death will not make anything 'better'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:37 PM

Funny how few people look in the ranks of their own party for the architects of this country's disgusting state.
It's not like things have improved in Britain since Maggie's departure from number 10 is it? If anything it's a lot worse.
How long has this ersatz socialist party been in power now?
They'll blame the right person one day.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Rog Peek
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:44 PM

Never thought of myself as a waste of space. Ah well!

Rog


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:46 PM

i So which Mozart opera has all the swearing? Or was this one of the "Modern" productions where the producer used the music to put forward his own political message?

Don't know but from the evidence of the anecdote, the opera could not have been BY Mozart

i Funny how few people look in the ranks of their own party for the architects of this country's disgusting state.

Yes I know, but this knockabout stuff is simply a reflection of political, economic, theological, philosophical, sociological, biological (???) disagreements.

Meantime, I remeber that when it was too far into the Thatcher years to continue blaming it all on the miners or the 70s, she and they started blaming everything on the 60s.

Who likes admitting errors, if doing so will mean opening floodgates to a torrent of criticism? And one characteristic I've noticed about the Right is their unremitting relentlessness.

Ivor

Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:49 PM

Like the left's unremitting hatred of Maggie is that, Ivor.

G [who is neither right nor left wing.]


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 05:39 PM

i Like the left's unremitting hatred of Maggie is that, Ivor.

That's just one tiny steady moan, 'Giok'.

I mean how once the right has an enemy, then the attacks go on unremittingly and if one line/channel gets blocked/answered, then alternatives are found for the attack to continue. For example, the Right's hatred of the Beeb (BBC).

Ivor ;who is a liberal if rather conservative red-green anarchist often found muttering 'a plague on all your houses' and 'to know that you do not know is the beginning of wisdom'.]

   Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 05:42 PM

Well we all know the BBC is full of Lefties, don't we Ivor?

G ¦¬]


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 05:52 PM

Say more, G.

Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: skarpi
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 05:57 PM

who says its her last days ?? she home now , keep on fightin
girl .

ATB skarpi


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 06:55 PM

For this thread I think you "had to be there." Though the wishing for her death is extremely mean-spirited.

Her pal Ronnie's long gone now, but his legacy lives on in many of the problems we have today (and that Dubya has managed to exacerbate.) I still wouldn't have wished the dementia on him. Just get his sorry backside out of office.

SRS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 07:41 PM

Bury her with her bum sticking out of the ground so all who want to can kiss her goodbye!

The rest, do what you will!

Art


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 07:51 PM

Thatcher the politician was an anathema to me. She has been out of power and unable to do any more damage for some eighteen years now. Against Thatcher the private person, I have no axe to grind. I hope she can live out her days quietly. It should be enough to know that one's opponents pose no further threat. Revenge will not enhance any of our lives and will only make us poorer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 07:59 PM

McGrath clearly leads a new-town sheltered life.<.I> Thatcherism wrecked Harlow (and new Labour carried on the process.)

But Thatcher would have been nothing without the people who voted for her. That's where the responsibility lies.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 08:06 PM

I am sorry but I am going to put shift lock on. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THAT WOMAN. NO SUFFICIENT APOLOGY.

SHE WAS AND IS EVIL. SHE SHOULD BURN FOR DECADES, INDEED CENTURIES, BEFORE SHE IS ALLOWED TO REST. SHE DESTROYED THE WELFARE STATE AND EVEN THE IDEA OF NOBLESSE OBLIGE. SHE DESTROYED SOCIAL HOUSING. SHE SET THE TRAIL THAT IS DESTROYING THE NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE. HER PLANS LAID THE TRAIL THAT DESTROYED THE NATIONAL RAIL INFRASTRUCTURE, OVERGROUNS AND UNDERGROUND. HER PLANS ARE WHY OUR ROADS AND INFRASTRUCTURE ARE IN DECAY. SHE GROUND MILLIONS OF BRITISH INTO POVERTY AND SHE DID SO INTENTIONALLY TO MAKE THEM MORE MALLEABLE TO HER RICH CRONIES. SHE DESTROYED BRITAIN AND THE CONSENSUS POLICIES THAT MIGHT HAVE ENDED THE CLASS WAR.

MAY SHE WRITHE IN PAIN FOR DECADES BEFORE SHE IS PERMITTED RELEASE. IT SI NO LESS THAN WHAT SHE HAS CONDEMNED SO MANY BRITISH TO.

IF THERE IS JUSTICE, I WANT TO HEAR HEAR SCREAM AND BEG.

I NOMINATE HER WORSE THAN POL POT, THAN HITLER, THAN STALIN, THAN BUSH.

LONG MAY SHE SUFFER.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,Gaz
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM

In the spirit of the nastiness of this thread, I'd like to wish all those preparing to celebrate a long, lingering, and painful death from cancer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 08:12 PM

Art Thieme - 08 Mar 08 - 07:41 PM

"Bury her with her bum sticking out of the ground so all who want to can kiss her goodbye!

The rest, do what you will!"

Art Thieme, some American Wanker who has got no Fucking idea of the mess that this Lady had to take over and turn about. She did it Art Thieme and made Britain the driving force of European recovery.

I'll give you a clue Art there is not one single one of her policies that ANY government in Europe has rescinded to supposedly reddress all the harm she has supposed to have wrought.

Hey Art the dollar to Pound/ Euro is at what at the moment? Please tell us where we got it all so wrong.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 08:16 PM

I was glad to see Franco suffering at the end too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 08:19 PM

I am sure you were Art. You were probably as clueless about that situation too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Peace
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 08:34 PM

Well, I certainly enjoyed Bert's book, "Nasty Book for Boys and Girls."

C'mon folks. Some jackass member starts a thread and everyone bites? This dumb fuck has posted half a dozen times to Mudcat under the name Bert Fegg. Gee, all today. WHAT a coincidence.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 11:19 PM

'the driving force of Europe.....'

he's got all the polari, hasn't he Jules?

I wonder where he spends his evenings.

We got it wrong. getting rid of our manufacturing base. monetarism. the national curriculum. tax cuts for the super rich. fundholding general practitioners. allowing beggars on the streets and hard drugs everywhere where previously there had been industry. multiplying the number of unemployed . shitting on the very communities people who had kept her and black marketting dad safe from the nazis. deregulation of staple things in the environment like water. general bloody ruination of everything decent and idealistic and wholesome in our society for the profit motive.

we can't rescind it, anymore than we can rescind the work of the Yorkshire Ripper.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 11:20 PM

I'm sorry she's ill though. I wouldn't wish anyone pain or sadness.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 12:11 AM

Sounds like a good match for Ronnie. He did the same destructive nonsense for the banking and savings and loan folks here so his rich friends could get richer.

But Art, ignore Teribus. The rest of us do. He is nastiness personified.

SRS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 12:15 AM

Reagan and Thatcher, the world may never recover from them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 12:21 AM

I'm with Elvis Costello on this one

Elvis Costello - Tramp the Dirt Down

LYR ADD:- TRAMP THE DIRT DOWN
(Elvis Costello)

I saw a newspaper picture from the political campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young child's
face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
coming down on that child's lips

Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the Lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When England was the whore of the world
Margaret was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
the black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn't
haunted by every tiny detail
'cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
all she thought of was betrayal

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just squeezed the life from his
only son
And how it's only voices in your head and dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up for punishment
And then expect you to say "Thank you" straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because you've only got the symptoms, you haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose head's like a tin-can
filled up with dreams then poured down the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being blown to bits or beaten and
maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the Lord your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life could be so cheap
but when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down


Ross


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 04:05 AM

Don't wish her dead, painful or otherwise - just delighted she's long gone.
My happiest political memory was to see her drive away from Downing Street in tears - would that this happened to many other politicians.
It says everything for me that she counted among her friends, mass murderer, torturer and dictator Auguste Pinochet.
"who's lives and communities she ruined"
"Society - there is no such thing as society", (unquote).
Jim Carroll (ex non-yuppie from Wandsworth)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 04:27 AM

We are still suffering the after effects of Thatcherism to this day, although this so called socialist government we have now is slightly to the right of Thatcher.

The Falklands ? she sent British soldiers to their deaths to re-vitalise her flagging politcal carreer.

She had a paranoid hatred of trade unions, particularly the NUM, she paid a feckin American hit man to close all the pits and spent more money fighting the strike than the cost of keeping the pits open.

Everything which had a value was sold off to benefit Thatchers rich friends, which is why today we have total chaos in our public transport system and why OAPs sit huddled in several coats every winter because they daren't turn the heating up while the privatised utilities pay more millions to the shareholders.

I wouldn't like to see Thatcher die, I hope she lives to a great age, in pain and misery.

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 06:02 AM

Oh and not to mention the notorious ' poll tax ' Thatcher found a way to make the poor subsidise the rich, she inflicted this firstly on Scotland to punish them for returning no Scottish Tory MPs but at least it caused her downfall.

Ewan MacColl hated her with a vengance, I'm with Ewan.

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 06:02 AM

Rail closures by year



At its peak in 1950, the mileage of the British Railway's system was around 21,000 miles (33 800 km) and 6000 stations. By 1975, the system had shrunk to 12,000 miles (19 300 km) of track and 2000 stations; it has remained roughly this size thereafter.

Closures of unremunerative lines had been ongoing throughout the 20th century. Numbers increased in the 1950s, as the Branchline Committee of BR also looked for uncontentious duplicated lines as candidates for closure. Approximately 3000 miles (4800 km) of line had already been closed between nationalisation and the publication of Beeching's report.[10] After publication, however, the closure process was accelerated markedly.

    * 1950....150 miles (240 km) closed
    * 1951....275 miles (440 km) closed
    * 1952....300 miles (480 km) closed
    * 1953....275 miles (440 km) closed
    * 1954 to 1957....500 miles (800 km) closed
    * 1958....150 miles (240 km) closed
    * 1959....350 miles (560 km) closed
    * 1960....175 miles (280 km) closed
    * 1961....150 miles (240 km) closed
    * 1962....780 miles (1 260 km) closed
    * Beeching report published
    * 1963....324 miles (521 km) closed
    * 1964....1058 miles (1702 km) closed
    * 1965....600 miles (965 km) closed
    * 1966....750 miles (1 207 km) closed
    * 1967....300 miles (480 km) closed
    * 1968....400 miles (640 km) closed
    * 1969....250 miles (400 km) closed
    * 1970....275 miles (440 km) closed
    * 1971....23 miles (37 km) closed
    * 1972....50 miles (80 km) closed
    * 1973....35 miles (56 km) closed
    * 1974....0 miles (0 km) closed

This is what I mean about the lack of objectivity, and the bile which accompanies the unreasoning hatred of Maggie Thatcher by the left.
Richard said, "HER PLANS LAID THE TRAIL THAT DESTROYED THE NATIONAL RAIL INFRASTRUCTURE "
Margaret Thatcher was PM from 1979 to 1990, you can see for yourself how that corresponds with the dates in the above list.
Like all of us, Maggie did good things and bad things, it is however unfair to scapegoat her or anyone else just because you can.
To rejoice in the demise of anybody is to join the ranks of those who ran the Gulags in Soviet Russia, or the death camps in Poland, it removes one from consideration as a person of humanity.
Love thy neighbour doesn't come with a contingency clause like, unless it's Margaret Thatcher, does it?
I thought socialists were also humanitarians?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 06:13 AM

Eric,

You took the words out of my mouth. I can only add, it is my belief that without parliament to hold her back, she would have emerged in her true colours as one of the most callous tyrants in history. Right up there with Hitler, Stalin, Amin, Ceacescau and, yes, Pinochet.

Here's a small and, compared to most of the evils that woman perpetrated, extremely trivial homily. I worked for Cheshire County Council throughout the period of Thatcher's tenure, and for several years afterwards. I watched helpless as her policies slowly and remorselessly crippled and bankrupted local government; as the endless round of cuts and closures and redundancies took their toll of social services, education, old people's homes, libraries. Everything which brought a little dignity to and improved the standards of life of, the people who paid her salary, and in some misguided cases voted for her. Everything in fact except the armed forces and the police.

After Thatcher left office, she published her memoirs, and then went on a tour of the UK to promote same. That means sales royalties to you and me. One of her venues was Chester Gateway Theatre, which backs on to the town's main car park. On the day she visited Chester, the car park was closed and surrounded by armed police. She was flown in by helicopter, addressed the party faithful, sold a whole pile of books, and was then flown straight out afterwards, leaving Cheshire County Council to pick up the tab of £100,000. This at a time when the authority was practically bleeding to death, and we were on the knife edge of being rate capped by this bloody woman's policies.

Yes, compared to what she did to the miners, the unions and the NHS, that is a very small incident. But I look foward to the day when I can either dance on the bitch's grave or piss on her ashes.

(Apologies for the vitriolic nature of this post. I don't normally believe in using Mudcat for launching attacks against anyone. But once in a while an exception comes along which cannot be ignored.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 06:15 AM

Now, John, can you give evidence of left-wing bias in the BBC?

We can all assert. our readers need proof.


   Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 06:36 AM

Well if like me you listen to Radio4 you may have heard the letters of complaint to Feedback about the left wing bias of the regular guests, The correspondent quoted Mark Steele as their example, Jeremy Hardy was also mentioned 'en passant'.
However as this thread proves beyond reasonable doubt, all political parties work on the age old principle, 'If you're not for us, you're against us'
G


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 06:53 AM

If I did celebrate the demise or suffering of people, I'd hold a bigger party for Tony Blair's than I would for Maggie's.

It wasn't Maggie who undermined our (traditional) labour /conservative voting choice.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:04 AM

"Reagan and Thatcher, the world may never recover from them."

Well the evil that was Soviet Russia certainly won't

With regard to Margaret Thatcher - we're being a little selective here aren't we?

But come on; please do tell us all how wonderful things were in the UK throughout the 1970's

Tell us all about how democratic was the application of the power of the block vote as used by the Trade Unions to dictate to the elected Government of the United Kingdom exactly what it could or could not do.

Explain to us all the economic sense of subsidising grossly inefficient industries and paying £250 per ton for a commodity you could buy and have delivered from the other side of the world for £8 per ton.

The trouble with the UK is that nobody is prepared to pay the taxes required to keep the welfare state running. The mantra of the left - "It's always somebody else's fault" - "Somebody should do something about .......... (Fill in whatever)". Wrong, if there is anything that needs fixing get the fuck on with it and fix it, you are responsible, nobody else.

The Welfare State as envisioned by its creators has been corrupted and abused to create a culture of dependence in the UK. Everybody in the UK can tell you and reel off their "rights" down to the last dotted 'i' and crossed 't' - None of these fuckers however are so forthcoming about telling you what their responsibilities are and that is why the country is going to hell in high gear. Anything that is good is knocked and dragged down to the lowest level, as a country we revel in self-abasement and mediocrity. The politically correct, socialist, trendy left seem to delight in advertising promoting the desirability of being as thick as shit and proud of it.

Oh LWD, about he inability to rescind decisions taken by the Thatcher's Government. Your comparison to the murderer The Yorkshire Ripper is patently ridiculous. Tell me in these last three Parliaments and Labour Governments, how many coal mines were opened? How many Steel Mills were built? How many shipyards opened? How many car plants opened? Are you trying to tell me that it was not in their power to do any of that?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:24 AM

Oi Teribus, read my first post again, I said this current government is to the right of Thatcher, in fact the worst socialist government I can remember, I'm 61

I worked with Alan Johnson when he was [ then ] UCW Outdoor secretary and I was a Branch secretary, he was right wing then, he introduced a bonus scheme that sold jobs for money, what a twat.

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:28 AM

Giok, apply brain, if any, before mouth. Who started the privatisation gravy train? What happened to the national rail infrastructure, track, and trains? Who got the gravy? Who pays for it in train fares and crap service.

Teribus, nice to note you prefer the ex-soviet countries to be run by the local equivalent of the mafia. Try living there yourself sometime. I suggest Siberia.

And, yes, everyone should be happy to pay their taxes for the bebefit of the country. Funny it's only rich foreigners who get given the option, isn't it? Up against the wall.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:35 AM

Margaret Thatcher is no different from Tony Blair or Alistair Campbell (I always put them together, as for me, they were like siamese twins) All three are to be despised. I have no leaning to right or left in my politicians, I only care for the politics of humanity, and none of those people cared about their fellow human beings.

Alistair Campbell has now written his memoirs, Tony Blair his, and no doubt Gordon Brown will too. Where are the dissenting voices about that? Gordon Brown is responsible for more pensioners having no pensions, or vastly reduced ones, but that is never brought up by those on the extreme left. Why not? Why weren't you up in arms at Cherie Blair? A woman who spends vast amounts on her image, who makes vasts profits from being Tony's wife, and who thinks that being 'just a mother' is a terrible thing. She is one of the most patronising, two-faced, using people I've ever seen in a prime minister's spouse.

Don't any of you look at what has happened over the last decade and a half? Do you think this country is any better?   Margaret Thatcher left a long time ago, and thank goodness she did, but how long does the hatred carry on for? It is that hatred, that 'division' which has ripped this country apart. It is that hatred that stops the wound from healing over too.

There are many people who don't give a damn about their fellow humans, other than those close to them, Margaret Thatcher was just one, although even her children struggled to love her it would seem. Blair and Campbell are right beside her in my view.

On the day that a young soldier was brought home from Iraq, in his coffin, to his small Devon village, Tony Blair was to be seen on 'Red Nose Day' doing a 'comedy sketch' with Catherine Tate, because that was 'Our Tony' part of 'Cool Britannia'...the prime minister who thought he was 'a celebrity' Can you imagine what the family of that soldier must have felt? I felt absolute outrage that any man could be so insensitive.

There are many politicians that we are far better off without, she is just one of them, Blair is another. There are many others who deserve the voice of the far left aimed at them, just as much. Sadly many of those are in their own politicial party. I'd suggest they now use their voice to bring them out into the open, although they'll find their freedom of speech to be somewhat gagged by their own party.

I was on the march in the West Country against the Poll Tax, but you try and orgainse a march like that nowadays, in every city centre, as happened at that time...and see how far you get! Life has become even worse under her successors and they should be hanging their heads in absolute shame for what they have done, with their greed, their insensitivity, the craze for power and control. It was all going to be so very different wasn't it? Is Pinochet any worse than Bush? Bush just controls his population and kills some of them in a different, more subtle way. Blair was his yes-man though, his 'buddy'.

Thatcher/Pinochet - Blair/Bush ?

Tell me though, WHERE are the Unions now? WHY were they not given back their powers the moment New Labour came in? There are no voices now raised in anger, there are no strikes for a population that is paid a pittance, yet who live in an increasingly expensive country, way beyond their financial means! Yet, no-one is on the streets protesting. No major strikes are being organised. There are no strong 'Union Men' around. They'd all be arrested these days anyway. You can't even get within one mile of The Houses of Parliament, protest-wise, without being arrested now.

???????????


Maybe this thread should be called The Last Days of Apathy, because then, it could mean that rather than waste time vomiting up words of bile about Margaret Thatcher, the far left has finally seen the light and realised that the way forward lies with openess, honesty, integrity and compassion, with them taking the lead, turning their hatred for Thatcher into something useful, which starts within their own party, as well as all the others, for never have we lived in more controlling and dangerous times as we now do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:54 AM

The unions had that power because the work they did was servicing those big industries and services which are no longer there. It has to be said that the power was not always handled responsibly, but that was noexcuse for the destruction that followed,

labour's better because more people are working. and a lot of social good flows from that. Blair followed Bush because he saw Wilson picking pieces out of his ass for the next ten years after becoming a refusenik over Vietnam.

that's the world we live in. we tried putting in holy fools to lead the labour party with Michael Foot - it doesn't work.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:39 AM

Come on now Richard don't be shy tell us all how great it was back in the 1970's, or has your memory conveniently erased that period so that you can fill your brain ("if any") with the usual politically correct, socialist, trendy left-wing claptrap you come out with?

Margaret Thatcher - without any shadow of a doubt one of the best Prime Ministers the United Kingdom has ever had.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: mandotim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:42 AM

Interesting thread, this. Aside from all the obvious hatred stuff, I think history will be particularly harsh on Margaret Hilda Thatcher (although it's probably to soon to tell just how harsh). Not because of the dogma and revenge driven inhumanity, but because of the strategic mistakes that have left the nation so weak in so many crucial areas. A short list;
Destroying the coal industry. This left the industry without the means to raise investment capital to clean up emissions, and removed a strategic asset by rendering most of our immense coal reserves (aka dependable energy) unrecoverable due to neglect.
Destroying the fishing industry. Another strategic reserve gone.
Abolishing Industrial Training Boards and the associated levies on employers, leading to the almost complete loss of apprenticeships, which we now see as the gross skills shortages in many important trades.
Raising European integration as a spectre in the minds of the population, with no actual gains. (All the alleged 'money back' gains were surrendered later). Given the current trend towards globalisation, there is a clear strategic advantage in being part of a large trading bloc.
Reducing the level of manufacturing industry to 30% of the pre-Thatcher level, leaving Britain dependent on an increasingly unreliable global market for imported goods.
Creating a society where cooperation and support for the less able was anathema; any form of collaborative or altruistic effort was seen by Thatcher as potential socialism, and was ruthlessly discouraged. This has led to Thatchers Children; a generation where many lack the moral code that places a duty to help ones neighbour. All that matters is self-enrichment, and people's worth is judged by their wealth, not their value.
The Internal Market in the National Health service; I was part of this one, and it has led to the siphoning away of huge amounts of resource into non-patient related activity.
An assumption that the best way to reduce crime was to lock up more people. The evidence discredited this, even at the time, but dogma won the day. As a result we have one of the highest prison populations per capita, and one of the worst re-offending rates.

I could go on and on, but the arguments are already well-rehearsed. Perhaps the biggest damage of all was the setting of a political agenda that has led all subsequent administrations into the trap of trying to be 'tougher' than the last, in the belief that a right wing, low-wage/low tax liberal economy is the only way to be competitive in the global marketplace. It's far from the real situation, but dogma has now become accepted wisdom, and seems irreversible; people have been conditioned not to vote for any party that seems to have the potential to tax individuals to enrich the common good.
Enough for now; Thatcher will die in her own good time, and I wish her peace, as I would for any other human being. What matters is what we make of her legacy; do we allow it to persist, or take the brave step to change course?
Tim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:52 AM

The final betrayal of Britain's fishermen was confirmed in 2003, when British waters became a European Union (EU) asset, under the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP).

Edward Heath in his haste to get Britain into the Common Market fell for a swindle, conceived just days before negotiations for us to join began. It gave the other member states freedom to fish in our waters by making them a 'common resource'. Having exhausted their own fishing grounds, they wanted to get their nets into the rich fishing waters inside the British 200-mile limit. In accepting it, Heath betrayed British fishermen and gave other EU nations a licence to rob, loot and pillage our fish forever.

Since then, the ongoing process of taking control of our fishing waters by stealth has continued unchecked.

DID YOU KNOW THAT UNDER THE COMMON FISHERIES POLICY:

More fish are now being thrown back dead in discards, or landed illegally, than are landed legitimately.

Britain provides three quarters of the stock, two thirds of the waters, but gets only a third of the catch and an eighth by value.

The fish nearly all hatch, grow and spawn in British waters but are a 'Common Resource", the only one. So everyone else can catch our fish and land it in their own ports, destroying the British fishing industry.

Every EU nation has "equal access" to this "Common Resource" and new entrants with big fishing fleets, but few fish, seek catches in our waters. Spain was the first and our fishing fleet has been cut to make room for them.

Countries, whose fishing fleets are too large for their quotas can register their vessels as British, get European money and catch our quotas. A fifth of the British registered fleet is now foreign owned and these quota hoppers catch more than two fifths of our hake and plaice.

Policing at sea falls mainly to Britain but we can't discriminate against the vessels most likely to offend and our efforts are not supported by control at most European ports where small fish "over quota" and illegally undersized fish are all landed with impunity.

Nations outside the EU have built powerful fishing industries within their 200-mile limits. Britain isn't allowed to do this because of the CFP rules.

Not Maggie but Ted,and the EEC killed the UK fishing industry.

Giok


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:52 AM

John,

We'll just have to run ain a parallel universe for a bit.

Yes I do listen to lots of radio 4. Is your last post the whole of your reason for saying there's that BBC bias? Is that the actual totality of your evidence?

If yes, you do seem to require remarkably little to come to your view. There's got to be more.


Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:12 AM

The main reason for the state our country is in, is the total apathy of the British people themselves, their willingness to give in, their acceptance of the dumbing down of their children and grandchildren, their refusal to challenge, to ask questions, to take an interest, their acceptance of often deeply crooked politicians and every other damned crooked thing that is thrown at them.

As a nation, we have lost our integrity. As a nationm we have lost our anger. As a nation, we have the plot.

But worst of all....

As a nation, we have lost ourselves.

It is time for the good men and true to return once more.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: mandotim
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:31 AM

Hi Giok! I agree about fishing, that the initial problem was Heath; but when all EU fishing fleets were struggling most member states found ways of keeping their fleets together, usually by paying generous subsidies to 'mothball' parts of the fleet. (Spain is a good example) As a result of this strategic view, these assets were still available when the rules on quotas were relaxed. Contrast this with the standard Thatcherite approach that said that struggling industries should be left to go to the wall, in the interests of 'the market', and thus subsidies were withheld. I should have said; Thatcher was primarily responsible for the rampant short-termism of British capitalism as well.
Very best; how's that lovely old Martin doing?
Tim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:41 AM

Well Ivor the original remark was somewhat tongue in cheek, and as we both know, it is incapable of concrete proof.
There have been complaints about a perceived left wing bias within the BBC for years, but nobody has ever walked or been pushed as a result.
Apart from the departure of Rod Liddle for writing an article entitled 'Marching back to Labour' in the Spectator. He was told to either resign his job with the Spectator or the one with the BBC, so he left the BBC. Ever since which he has written an awful lot of derogatory stuff about the corporation. methinks he has a problem with them :)

This might amuse.

Giok


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:43 AM

Her ethos made the British Railway system into the mess it is today, because of privatisation & the prolification of separate companies, the government subsidy is now, I believe, 5 times what it was previously!

Still, if it hadn't been privatised, I might still be working for them & not enjoying early retirement & living in Ireland. Thanks for that Maggie, but I'm truly sorry for what chaos has been rained on the railways.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:19 AM

Giok, thanks for that. I can see the t-i-c aspect, tho' that's oft tricky in posts.

I suspect the relentless complainers of that supposed bias are exactly the sort of right-wingers who manage relentlessness so well until they've won. They just can't stand anything being in public ownership.

Of course we can find the occasional leftie on the beeb. For each one of them, i'd be happy to provide two from the right. I don't think that means the Beeb has a right-wing bias either. The remit of its constitution is to be even-handed.

But quoting a very few examples in order to assert, as others try to, about the 'bias of the BBC', simply doesn't stand up to a moments scrutiny.

personally, I like it for a quite conservative reason; choice. I want a choice between commercial and public service broadcasting.

Those further right who can't see beyond their pockets want to make money out of everything they can lay their hands on. They're completely not averse to getting money out of you and me via the government, in the way of 'selling the family silver'(c.Harold Macmillan)[railways,P.O.,et cetera ad nauseum; you know - assets we used to own]

They think, amazingly that there's no difference between a country and a company/corporation.


Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Big Phil
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:19 AM

Multiculturism has done more damage to this once great country than maggie ever did. Pushed to its extreme by Bliar and his acolytes.

Phil*


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:34 AM

The 70s were in fact a great time to live. They were wrecked by the greed of the capitalists who would rather close a business than see the workers receive a fair share of receipts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:43 AM

Well I for one won't be celebrating but I may heave a sigh of relief.

Ditto King Arthur.

Sadly I see the "ME" generation so well nurtured by the Thatcher years creeping into the Folk Festival circuit. Festival goers as opposed to folkies. But regrettable just the same.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 12:21 PM

Strange though how little Thatch was liked by her own party. Most of the policies were quietly dropped rather than noisily 'rescinded'.

They knew bloody well she was a wrong 'un.

I wonder which pearl of genius Teribus values so highly....the monetarist economic policies that closed down 30% of manufacturing capacity in her first 18 months, the handling of the hunger strike which handed Ulster over on a plate, the national curriculum that had inner city kids who couldn't read and write studying two foreign languages and Shakespeare (because Keith Joseph did that at his prepper)...........the sacking of really good men like John MacGregor, and the preferrment of lickspittles like Gummer.

Perhaps Teribus has fantasies about her being his nanny and giving him a spanking. Can't think what else it could be.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:08 PM

Oooh, I just knew this would be a great thread!

Good to see some of the regular Mudcat wombats nailing their very blue colours to the mast and proving once and for all that not all folkies have developed sensible opinions since the French Revolution. Did all those songs of rebellion go in one ear and out the latter, lads and lasses?

I'm off to stoke the bonfire in readiness and hoping to invite the Hamiltons to light the blue touchpaper, though I won't be asking them to step away rapidly.

Grrrr,

Bert


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:16 PM

Missing you already Bert, or whoever you are, please come back to see us when you can't stay so long.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:24 PM

Well, at least I can spell 'Jock'.

Grrrr,

Bert


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:27 PM

Nope too long, try shorter next time


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:32 PM

Ooh, Jock, you are a wag! Pity there's not much substance between your ears though.

Do you have a life outside Mudcat?

No, I thought not.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Megan L
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:34 PM

Jings boy you must have been looking in the mirror there.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:46 PM

"Ewan MacColl hated her with a vengeance, I'm with Ewan."
Peggy said one of the great tragedies of MacColl's life was that he died when she was at the height of her power.
Watched the programme on Enoch Powell last night - they're all a shower of bastards.
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:49 PM

Ah no Megan

Just rejoice, rejoice!

Grrrr,

Bert


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:51 PM

I couldnt have put it better myself Jimbo and worst of all some of them seem to inhabit this site.

Grrrr,

Bert


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 03:21 PM

Some people have great difficulty in telling the difference between a desire to see fair play, and their own doctrinaire views.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 03:26 PM

Oh dear Jockie baby if you think that Thatcher and her drones had anything to do with 'fair play' you'd be better off mowing the lawn for the next 30 years.


Even bigger grrrr,

Mr. Fegg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM

i Some people have great difficulty in telling the difference between a desire to see fair play, and their own doctrinaire views.

Quite agree.

Then there are those who can see the difference, and prefer their doctrinaire views. I have in mind the right-wingers I was talking about.


:-)

      Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: skipy
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:24 PM

Oooh, I just knew this would be a great thread!
Perhap you could tell me the dates that your parents died so that I can organise a couple of parties! This is a sick idea for a thread & a disgrace to "the cat".
I am 100% pro Thatcher, but I will not celerbrate the death of Kinnock or even Blair, because it's sick!
Skipy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 03:53 AM

"I am 100% pro Thatcher,"
Oooo - have just heard the first cuckoo of the year
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:23 AM

"I am 100% pro Thatcher,"

In fact this guys still paying Poll Tax.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:22 AM

"In fact this guys still paying Poll Tax." - WLD

What are you paying in Council Tax WLD?

Odd thing is if Poll Tax was introduced now to replace Council tax it would accepted as a far fairer tax in a second.

"Teribus, nice to note you prefer the ex-soviet countries to be run by the local equivalent of the mafia. Try living there yourself sometime. I suggest Siberia." . Richard Bridge

Funny thing about the leftists in Europe and in the UK. For some reason they are totally blind to the evils of the type of communist regimes spawned by Russia and China. Must have something to do with having the word "socialist" included in the title, but then again the Nazi Party was a "National Socialist" Organisation. Tell us Richard how many people were killed by the Communist Regimes of Russia, China, North Korea, Cambodia and Cuba - give you a hint Richard it runs into tens of millions. And guess what Richard - not a squeak of protest, or murmur of objection from such as yourself and your fellow travellers. You do however have the absolute afrontery to come up with, "Teribus, nice to note you prefer the ex-soviet countries to be run by the local equivalent of the mafia." - old militant trade union leftist tactic - don't put words in my mouth then try to take me to task them. Interesting that you suggest that I might like to try living in Siberia - so I take it Richard that you do have some sort of clue where it is, what as an area it was used for, and how many died there.

And by local equivalent of the mafia I take it you mean the ex-Communist Party Bosses and KGB Officers. Another little question for you Richard - What percentage of the population of Russia or China were Members of the Communist Party? - I think that you will find that it was a fairly exclusive club, which could only be joined by invitation only.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:05 AM

less than I was in poll tax. Poll tax meant my rates bill went up by 350%. Its reasonable these days.

It was all based on scare tactics - you got old people saying things to like - there are 30 pakistanis living in one house some places and they all use the toilet and get free spectacles. Then the poor old sods dropped dead with shock when the poll tax bills arrived.

Teribus I will accept Thatcher was a slight improvement on Josef Stalin and pol Pot. And I think that shows I am a reasonable man and willing to concede a point whilst debating.

What do you want to go down as though - the man who supported the nearest thing we had to Stalin and Pol Pot?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: redsnapper
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:25 AM

I've been following this thread but haven't contributed before. I consider myself fairly left wing but, to me, the main premise of this thread seems pretty sick. I personally wouldn't wish harm on Margaret Thatcher although I disliked her intensely as a politician right back to her milk-snatching days.

I would debate politics with anyone on a respectful basis below the line here at Mudcat but let it be about the politics and policies rather than "burning" or "pissing on" and other venomous phrases about a specific individual. That is just sick and not really worthy of anybody with half a claim to a brain.

RS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:54 AM

Poll Tax was brought in to replace what was known as Rates, Council Tax was brought in to replace Poll Tax. So what your Rates were is of no relevance, Poll Tax was brought in because Rates income did not cover the expenditure, so I am not in the least surprised that Poll Tax bill was greater than your Rates bill. My Council Tax Bill has always been higher than what I was required to pay as Poll Tax.

"It was all based on scare tactics - you got old people saying things to like - there are 30 pakistanis living in one house some places and they all use the toilet and get free spectacles. Then the poor old sods dropped dead with shock when the poll tax bills arrived."

Utter Crap WLD - what was said by the old folks was perfectly true but their very legitimate gripe ran more like this (Taking your example):

"There are 30 Pakistanis living in a house exactly the same as mine. There are fifteen wage earners in that house compared to me living on my own on my pension. They have a far greater call on the services provided by the council and on those jointly funded by local and central government, yet I have to pay exactly the same amount."

Don't know how your maths is WLD but given your chosen example, under Rates and Council Tax you got two people paying, under Poll Tax you would have sixteen paying - so for arguements sake if the total amount required to run the place was divided by the number of people earning in that community or by the number of houses being lived in under which scheme do you pay less.

Your next one was absolutely priceless - So:

"Thatcher was a slight improvement on Josef Stalin and pol Pot. And I think that shows I am a reasonable man and willing to concede a point whilst debating.

What do you want to go down as though - the man who supported the nearest thing we had to Stalin and Pol Pot?"

Now what was that I said to Richard Bridge about putting words into peoples mouths? Oh yes, "old militant trade union leftist tactic". Now go back over any previous post of mine on this thread and show me where I have mentioned Joseph Stalin or Pol Pot.

So Maggie was a "slight" improvement on Joseph Stalin, Communist dictator and tyrant credited with having caused the deaths of over 20 million. A "slight" improvement on Pol Pot who killed, depending on sources between one quarter and one third of his country's population.

Absolutely frightening that with that as an illustration of your firm grip on reality that you were actually involved in education.

Richard tells us what a marvellous time it was in the 1970's, tells us all about those greedy capitalists.

- Not a single word about the mess the country was in because it was being held to ransom by totally irresponsible Trades Union Leaders.
- Not a word about the 3-day Week and the power cuts
- Not a word about the almost continuous wild-cat strikes which did more to ruin British Industry than anything
- Richard doesn't seem to be able to recall the sight of Dennis Healey and the British Government going cap in hand to the IMF for a loan to tide the nation over for six months.
- Nothing about it being in the hands of striking hospital porters as to whether or not you could be admitted to hospital
- Nothing about the rubbish left lying in the streets or the dead left unburied in the morgues.

Absolutely wonderful Richard, I recall it all vividly. I also recall who it was that took the Government of the UK out of the hands of a few unelected Trades Union Leaders and the TUC and put it back firmly in the hands of the duly elected Members of Parliament - A greengrocers daughter, mother of two, name of Margaret Thatcher.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 09:20 AM

You seem to be a Thatcher apologist Teribus, apologise for this , when Thatcher introduced the ' poll tax ' it originally meant that someone living in hovel would pay the same tax as someone living in a mansion, irrespective of their income, a deliberate action by Thatcher to make the poor subsidise her rich cronies.

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:38 AM

eric the red, your comparison is emotive crap and you know it. Irrespective of what their living arrangements are, if two people are paying the same how is one subsidising the other?

As the example raised by WLD with Rates and Council Tax only each Householder pays, the basis for lobbying the tax being an arbitrary assessment of the rental value of your property (The old "Rates") or an arbitrary assessment on the value of your property (Council Tax). Under Poll Tax, or to give it its correct name Community Charge all those earning a living who are elligible to vote and who are on the Election Register pay a fixed amount, after all everybody living in the community benefits from the services provided.

Now while I can see an extremely easy way to determine how much is required for a communities budget and how much everyone should pay under the Community Charge scheme. I cannot see the same simplicity working on assessments on property values or rental potential which never reflect the current situation because they are obsolete the minute they are set. There are always more people working within a community than there are households therefore with a flat community charge everyone who has call on the services provided pays, with the current Council Tax it would seem that quite a number get a free ride at the expense of others.

Had the Community Charge been established the UK might just have some notion as to how many aliens actually reside within our borders. What was it our Home Secretary had to embarassingly admit last year? That he hasn't got a clue. As far as collection of the tax it should be the same as for PAYE, deduction at source.

A "Thatcher apologist", most certainly not - She's got fuck all to apologise for, she definitely put the UK back on track, having pulled it back from an abyss. Not one of her policies has been set aside, or rescinded. Certainly none have been reversed, ask Gordon of Cartoon, he was more than delighted to jump into the Chancellor of the Exchequer's job in 1997, the situation he faced and the funds available were far different than when Maggie's Government came to power in 1979 after Labour and their Trade Union Masters tried their best to completely destroy the country.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM

Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Grantham?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:12 PM

Yeh I was involved in education. Thankfully it was throughout the 1970's when schools were allowed to get on with the job - rather than running to keep up with the Thatcher/Joseph demolition job of the public services.

You think we haven't all heard pile of bunkum that you keep spewing up. The press is owned by right wing turds who keep jabbering about the evils of trade unions and the three day week.

And you know what. people aren't buying it cos it crap, unmitigated bollocks! despite blanket media mogul approval for Thatcher. She is seen as a moral low point for this country even by the people of her own party. her own party recognise that no one will vote for them as long as anybody thinks there is a remote chance of them being associated with that bunch of bastards buggering up the country again. Nearly two decades of the highest unemployment figures ever.

its just you and the Daily mail. Teribus - you're in great company. we're not leftists. My trade union The NAS was known as the Tory Union. there are plenty of decent people who vote Tory and work for the party. She wasn't one of them.

Its just you who's off the scale.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:39 PM

You'll have heard the old aphorism [?] about fire being a good servant, but a bad master.
The same is true of the trade unions, when they can bring down the government of the country the way they did Callaghan's government, then the time had come for a showdown.
Well Labour were never going to bite the hand that fed them were they? So it fell to Maggie to take them on, and Arthur Scargill helped her to win the battle.
Now I'm not against trade unions, very necessary organisations, but like many politicians do now, they thought the rules were for others and not for them.
Tony Blair learned his lesson, he got into bed with big business, and attracted donations from them and reducing his dependence on Trade Union funds. You will note that one of Gordon Brown's first actions as chancellor was to cut the taxes paid by big businesses. This was a quid pro quo for their support, and that of Murdoch as well.
Now the Poll Tax was/is iniquitous, and it is right to castigate her and her government for that one, especially since she chose to pilot the scheme in Scotland.
However the one thing I can say it is fair to blame her for is the swing to indirect taxation, where instead of paying income tax on earnings, we all now pay tax on everything else. If they could find a way to tax farts I'm sure they'd do it.
Put up income tax, and raise the lower threshold, to take pensioners out of taxation, and increase the amount paid by higher earners. Tax the million pound + bonus's of the city traders at 50%. It will cut into the sales of Porsche cars, but then again look who is taking Ken Livingstone to court over his emissions tax!
Sorry if I sound like a Socialist, but then again, Gordon Brown doesn't, so somebody has to.

G ¦¬]


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:42 PM

100 Up


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Megan L
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:45 PM

Ah yes the glorious seventies when striking sons of bitches didnt give a damb about the children they were supposed to be teaching. Leaving them in large groups with little else to occupy them except bullying and physically abusing those they saw as weeker than them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:56 PM

Do everything you say Giok and the amount you take as revenue will plummet.

Now please explain to me what was iniquitous about the Community Charge. I will give you an example:

Four bedroomed house South coast of England.
Owner does not live there and has not done so for 12 years now
His children do, all are in employment, now counting the house-owner himself that is five incomes coming into that home.

Who pays the Council Tax - The absentee householder at full rate because there are more than two people in employment over the age of 18 living in the house. Note the householder is gaining no benefit at all from any service supplied by the Council.

Who would pay Poll Tax - The four people living there who are actually getting the "benefit" of the services provided by the Council.

Now tell me what is iniquitous about that?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: mandotim
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 01:05 PM

Teribus; I'm sorry to disabuse you, but your quote about 'not one of her policies has been reversed' is just a little wide of the mark. Poll tax for starters? Her refusal to institute any sort of minimum wage? Like WLD, I'm not some looney left winger, just someone who is capable of taking an objective look at recent history. Your economic analysis could do with some attention too; the concensus among even right-wing economists is that the need for IMF intervention was caused directly by the 'dash for growth' perpetrated by Anthony Barber. There had to be a reckoning for this foolishness, and the Tories were fortunate enough to be out of power when it happened.

If Margaret Thatcher did have any achievements, (and I doubt that there were many of any lasting, strategic significance)they pale into insignificance beside the damage she did; again, the facts are worth repeating;
- Law and order. When she left office, recorded crime was at a historic high, far higher than when she came to power, and despite record numbers of people in jail.
- Higher education. Universities and colleges received less investment per student when she left than when she arrived, and research funding was slashed
- She presided over the highest sustained levels of unemployment in our history, consigning whole communities to an economically inactive role, and costing the economy huge amounts in benefits.
- She left investment in manufacturing industry at a lower level than when she took office, far behind our competitor nations, and decimated a once powerful manufacturing base. This has caused a concomitant loss of important skills, of which we are now in dire need
- the overall tax burden was higher when she left than when she arrived.
- Despite savage cuts in public services, the full flow of North Sea oil and a rise in taxation, government borrowing rose sharply on her watch, as did national debt.
- Trades Union membership was higher when she left office than it was when she arrived; so much for 'destroying the Unions'. (Oh, and by the way, your comment about 'unelected Trades Union leaders is also incorrect; almost all Trades Unions elect their leaders by a ballot of the membership, unlike the Tory Party of Thatcher's day. There are some exceptions, but not among the big Unions)

Most of the above are objective measures of competence for a government. Perhaps the harshest judgement is a more subjective one; she left a nation divided against itself, with an increasing division between haves and have nots, and the means to close this gap largely removed. The culture of selfishness she propounded as a virtue is still echoing through the society she claimed not to exist, and is at the roots of much of our current difficulty.

Take off the blue-tinted spectacles, Teribus, and get real.
Tim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Bert Fegg
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 02:29 PM

My, it really is amazing how all the Thatcherites come crawling out the woodwork on a Monday morning - obviously her politics didn't provide them with the wherewithal to buy their own computers.

Some of you really do have a ridiculously wrong understanding of the 1970s. I'd suggest getting out, visiting one of those libraries which Thatcher tried to kill off and reading some relevant material.

Oh and I just love that word 'leftist'. I think I'll just pop off and be sick in the woods.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,Mr Red and that ain't no political stance
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 02:47 PM

If you can't beat 'em, Grantham.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 03:18 PM

There you go again, you fascist propagandist.

Go to Siberia NOW and see what happens.
Ask whether the sovbloc worker on the street got richer or poorer when state assets were given away to oligarchs.
Ask the police why they are not allowed to strike now.
Ask why workers were striking in the 70s.

Oh, I forgot, you don't care so long as people do as they are told. Not for you a free country. Just order - as in "orders are orders". You are terrified that the people might actually get a fair share of anything in the country.

The period of consensual centre-left politics in the UK was far far better for the vast majority than the results of Thatcher's greed. And never forget, Bossy Roberts (as she was called at school) had joined the ruling classes by marriage to a rich industrialist.

You have no idea about the miners' strike - the number of people fitted up on trumped up charges, the police state mentality created.

Give me back the 70s anyday. Private capital owns our water, our public transport, our energy. Capital puts teratogenics into our food supply. The rich go to hospital and the poor to the grave thanks to legions of managers charged with emulating the antics of the marketplace. Pensions are stolen to prop up bosses lifestyles (and before you tell me about Robert Maxwell, I actually knew him and he was a cunt of any persuasion). Our media are given over to the enemies of democracy (deliberately and as an act of pique over one TV programme). Plans are afoot to spy yet more on all our communications.

That woman was pure evil. Long may she suffer. It will never match the suffering she caused the country out of her greed and malice. If you want to go with her, may your god go with you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 03:43 PM

I can't help but notice that all her supporters have carefully tiptoed around the part she played in keeping dictator Pinochet out of jail.
Mind you, it can't have been easy for her - having a criminal in the family who only escaped prison because his mother was prime minister (oh, and by grassing his mates up)
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:40 PM

Teribus,skarpi, et al, why would you say you are on the right ?


Some suggested answers. Because you think people are fundamentally in competition; because humans are essentially greedy; because 'to them that hath shall be given': because life is all about accumulation; because the world can be divided into the deserving because hardy-working, and the rest; because there's no such thing as equality or fairness; or other?


Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:55 PM

Kiss away!!!

Art


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: DougR
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:31 PM

Right on, Skarpi!

DougR


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:12 PM

Yo, skipy, you rich bastards never did understand suffering.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Rog Peek
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:08 PM

I always thought Ewan McColl summed the old cow up very well:

Come all you argumentative sods who like to chew the rag
Who'll sit in a bar for hours on end and a beering drinking Jack
Sit down and park your feet a while and give your mouth a rest
And I'll tell you about a Dame they called the guardian of the West

Her hair was the best that money could buy her eyes were china blue
I swear they wouldn't've looked out of place on a frozen Cockatoo
She'd a nose like the blade of a metal saw and a voice like a tungsten drill
And she used it to bore the natives when she'd a couple of hours to kill

When she was a puking babe in arms she read in a magazine
About the Royals and decided she would like to be the Queen
But the job was already taken so she stamped her foot and said
"If I can't be the Queen or the Prince of Wales I'll be the PM instead"

And so she moved to NW4 to a pad in Downing Street
A well kept joint where she and her group of dead-beats used to meet
They'd dance around the table then they'd have a little chat
And in between she'd practice her elocution on the cat

The lady often said she'd've liked to have lived in the golden age
Before the days of the unions or the national minimum wage
She sighed when she thought of Hitler how he'd smashed them all to hell
"What he can do I can do better" she said "And probably twice as well"

And so she set out kill the unions one by one
All except the ETU for that had already been done
Teachers and civil servants workers down the mine
Needed a taste of the ladies whip to make them toe the line

The printers they came out on strike she went for them tooth and claw
Nurses and firemen struck as well she belted them with the law
They may be gallant heroes when they're saving peoples lives
But they're just a bunch of layabouts when they're asking for a rise


Well the lady's reputation plummeted down into the red
But trouble blew up in the Falklands it was jam on her ginger bread
"Thank God for a nice little war" she said "This is Britain's finest hour"
So a couple of hundred squadies died so she could stay in power

The day a Polish shipyard became a casualty
She rushed to Les Welensa crying solidarity
"Oh stay with us my dear" he said but she answered with a frown
"I have to rush back to Glasgow to close a shipyard down"

She doted on brave Colonel North and all that he represents
And she stuck like shit to a blanket to her favourite president
She was madly keen on Bushy Tail of the dear old CIA
And she carried a torch for Botha and General Penishay

Once behind the counter of her father's grocer shop
She sold butter and jam and flour and Spam and everything else the lot
But when the merchants' dice had changed old prices did apply
She sold the nation off in lots to all who wanted to buy

Her days in power were numbered as the election it grew near
It broke her heart to hear those words "You'll have to go my dear"
I'm sure she wakes in a sweat at night and thinks she's on the rack
Dreaming about those bosom pals who stabbed her in the back.

I took the liberty of adding the final verse, I hope Ewan would have approved. I shall treasure always the memory of a tearful Margaret Thatcher leaving number 10 having been thrown out on her ear by her own lot!

Rog


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 03:37 AM

Certainly the parliamentary savaging by Geoffrey Howe was sweet music!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:02 AM

M. Doigtsdeplombe a dit: "Its not in very good taste to suggest celebrating any one dying"

Stalin? Bin Laden? Mussolini? Pol Pot? Ivan the Terrible? Caligula? Torquemada?

You can take it too far. Some of us who have seen Worksop think that the damage deliberately caused by Mme. Toitdepaille puts her on the far side.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: freda underhill
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:47 AM

the last days of Margaret Thatcher happened in October/November last year... just before the elections in Australia. We suffered under Thatcherism from the mid nineties through to the end of 2007.

we have now turned a road, the new government has closed down the apalling overseas detention centres where refugee applicants were locked up indefinitely. They have apologised to indigenous Australians, agreed to move forward on the environment and are rumbling on about human rights.

They have also changed the funding contracts between community organisations and the government, to remove clauses inserted by the previous government which demanded compliance with their apalling antisocial policies.

Australians feel some hope rising up after enduring the evil empire of the people-haters that comprised our previous government.

so yes, the last days of Thatcher feel good.

freda


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:03 AM

Mandotim

Point 1:
Poll Tax was replaced by Council Tax so anyone who is not a householder does not have to pay for the services provided by the Council they benefit from – a situation that you appear to find as being fair and equitable – I don't, if you benefit from something you should pay your whack. Unlike most in the "socialist" camp I acknowledge the following reality – There is no such thing as "Government Money", the Government has no money, the Government collects taxpayers money and then "manages"/spends it rather inefficiently. Little exercise for you mandotim, look up the numbers of households in your town, then look up the number of people who make up the population, compare that to the electoral role, tell me how many are getting a free ride.

Point 2:
Refusal to institute any sort of minimum wage, or any other legislation hardly falls into the category of having policy reversed.

Point 3:
"Your economic analysis could do with some attention too; the consensus among even right-wing economists is that the need for IMF intervention was caused directly by the 'dash for growth' perpetrated by Anthony Barber."

Really? When exactly were those concerns voiced? Or is this one of those 20 x 20 hindsight things? It was certainly not the consensus at the time the decisions to float the pound, expand the money supply and aim for a 5 per cent rate of growth were widely supported among economists and across the political spectrum.

The Government's whole economic strategy was undermined by circumstances largely beyond its control:
-        The ending of the Bretton Woods exchange system produced great instability;
-        The rise of militant trade unionism posed a challenge to any anti-inflation policy and made the Industrial Relations Act inoperable;
-        The steep increase in commodity prices and the quadrupling of Arab oil prices fuelled inflation.
-        The old Keynesian methods of economic management, so enthusiastically embraced by previous Labour Governments from the time of Harold Wilson, although generally accepted, were approaching their demise.

Thatcher took over three years after the James Callaghan Government had concluded that the Keynesian approach to demand-side management failed to do everything, realising that as the economy is not self-righting and that new fiscal judgments had to be made to concentrate on inflation, a view accepted by the Thatcher Government.

Point 4:
"If Margaret Thatcher did have any achievements, (and I doubt that there were many of any lasting, strategic significance) they pale into insignificance beside the damage she did; again, the facts are worth repeating;"

Yes mandotim the facts are worth repeating, such as:
-        Restoring the rule of Parliamentary Democracy in the United Kingdom
-        Instrumental ally of the United States of America in facing down and ultimately defeating Soviet Russia in what was known as the "Cold War". Look at the millions liberated mandotim, or would you have rather seen them still part of communist Russia and it's trading bloc.
-        Providing leadership, conviction and resolution when British Territory was invaded and occupied by a foreign power
-        Having the courage to prove to the world at large that the UK was not to be trifled with when she ordered the Task Force South to land and liberate the Falkland Islands.

Point 5: - Law and order. When she left office, recorded crime was at a historic high, far higher than when she came to power, and despite record numbers of people in jail.

Fascinating Tim, unfortunately what you state above does not reflect what is presented in the British Crime Survey figures for 1979 and 1990, which shows very little change, your "far higher" actually translates to either a "marginal" increase or decrease depending upon the type of crime committed.

Point 6: - Higher education. Universities and colleges received less investment per student when she left than when she arrived, and research funding was slashed

And yet total government expenditure on education presented as a percentage of GDP amounts to roughly the same. It was 4.98% when Maggie left office and was about 5.4% in 2004 (Figures for 2007 not available).

By the bye Tim have you got a problem for students paying for their university education as they do in almost every other European country? Or should that be done with all that money the Government doesn't actually have, yet another socialist free-ride.

Point 7: - She presided over the highest sustained levels of unemployment in our history, consigning whole communities to an economically inactive role, and costing the economy huge amounts in benefits.

OK then Tim, the alternative was what exactly? Continue to pour hundreds of millions per day down the pan to subsidise and support industries that were doomed to failure because of the restrictive working practices and the "I'm-all-right-Jack" mentality of the British Trades Union Movement – ref Sid Weighell's 1979 "Snouts in the trough remark".

Expend all that money for absolutely no return? Putting off till tomorrow because it presents the more convenient and easier path to follow? That is not the way of responsible Government, besides it would not have prevented the swing of the axe that ultimately had to fall.

Point 8: - She left investment in manufacturing industry at a lower level than when she took office, far behind our competitor nations, and decimated a once powerful manufacturing base. This has caused a concomitant loss of important skills, of which we are now in dire need.

Really? What investment are you talking about Tim? – Government investment (Spending all that Government money again like a good little socialist)? Harking back to Harold Wilson's Keynesian methods of economic management? But they didn't work Tim or had you forgotten that.

Maybe you do wish for a number of large high-tech public sector corporations guided by a Ministry of Technology. Economic planning through the new Department of Economic Affairs, as did Harold Wilson. But you'd be wrong Tim, Nationalised Industries are grossly inefficient because they must continually strive to maintain the status quo for their workers, can't have efficiency cutting the numbers of workers employed can we Tim. Doesn't matter if what we produce is high priced, poor quality, useless crap that nobody wants to buy, we don't have to worry about that as the Government will always bale us out – After all we've got jobs for life – Hell as like!!

Margaret Thatcher was rather good at attracting investment into the UK, damn sight better than any before or after her that's for sure.

Point 9: - the overall tax burden was higher when she left than when she arrived.

On direct taxation? No the Conservatives reduced direct taxation and increased indirect taxation. What you spend your money on determines how much indirect taxation you pay. Anyone who wants to discuss this particular point must also include the "stealth taxes" so far introduced by NuLab's Dynamic Duo, Tony Blair and Gordon of Cartoon.

Point 10: - Despite savage cuts in public services, the full flow of North Sea oil and a rise in taxation, government borrowing rose sharply on her watch, as did national debt.

In what terms Tim:

This is from Hansard - Written Answers to Questions, Tuesday 2 May 1989 - NATIONAL FINANCE - Government Debt
"National Debt is measured annually at the end of the financial year. The total outstanding at the end of 1978-79 was £86.9 billion (47 per cent. of GDP) and at the end of 1987-88 was £197.3 billion (44 per cent. of GDP).
National debt however, is not the best measure of public sector indebtedness, for instance because it covers only central Government debt, not the whole of the public sector. A better measure is net public sector debt, which was £95.3 billion (50 per cent. of GDP) at the end of 1978 -79, and £171.3 billion (38 per cent. of GDP) at the end of 1987-88."
So about the time she entered office National Debt was 47% of GDP/Public Sector Debt was 50% of GDP.
Around the time she left office National Debt was 44% of GDP/Public Sector Debt was 38% of GDP
Ah I can hear Tim saying but the numbers went up. Quite correct Tim but if the numbers went up then so too must the GDP of the country have gone up, which oh! My goodness, my gosh, indicates that the country must have been prospering.

Point 11: - Trades Union membership was higher when she left office than it was when she arrived; so much for 'destroying the Unions'.

Tim I couldn't give a tupenny-ha'penny damn about what the Trades Unions do as long as they restrict their activities to looking after the interests of their members and stay the fuck out of the business of the elected Parliament of the United Kingdom.

Oh, and by the way, Trades Unions Leaders elected by a ballot of the Union Membership, are elected to look after the interests of those members. They have not been elected by those Union Members to interfere with the workings of the sovereign Parliament of the United Kingdom. Involuntary donations deducted at source from Union Members salaries and handed over to the Labour Party does not entitle the leadership of any Trades Union to dictate what the Government of the United Kingdom, duly elected by the electorate of the country, can or cannot do.

Point 12:
As to this "…culture of selfishness she propounded as a virtue is still echoing through the society she claimed not to exist, and is at the roots of much of our current difficulty."

Left-wing Myth. Go take a look at what she actually did say in that interview. I agree whole heartedly with it. She did not propound selfishness as a virtue she propounded self-reliance as a virtue, nothing at all wrong with that. And what is, "at the roots of much of our current difficulty" and our malaise as a nation is the overwhelming "Culture of Dependence" that has been nurtured and the insanity of "political correctness" that has been encouraged since 1997 as part and parcel of NuLab's vision of "Cool Britannia".

Take off the blinkers, Tim, and get real, from 1964 to 1979 the Government of Britain in both Labour and Conservative hands was shambolic to say the least. From 1979 to 1990 Britain was fortunate to have someone at the helm who clearly understood what common-sense and leadership was all about and delivered it in spades.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:44 AM

The Falkland Islands !!!

Thatchers war, she sent British Soldiers to their deaths to re-vitalise her flagging political carreer.

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:47 AM

Incidently Teribus, are you Mad Lizzie the Cornish Binge Poster in disguise ?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Stu
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 12:35 PM

"Poll Tax was replaced by Council Tax so anyone who is not a householder does not have to pay for the services provided by the Council they benefit from – a situation that you appear to find as being fair and equitable – I don't, if you benefit from something you should pay your whack."

Of course, the problem with the Poll Tax is that the 'whack' is the same regardless of what proportion of income it represents to those on whom it is levied. This means someone earning £60k a year pays the same as someone earning £15k a year - and this is what people object to. No one in their right mind would agree this is fair - everyone should contribute no doubt, but taxing everyone in this manner is as ignorant as it is unethical - even by Thatcher's standards.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 12:40 PM

"Mad Lizzie the Cornish Binge Poster" ???

Sorry to disappoint you but mind you with a handle like that I almost wish I was.

Falklands - Troops sent to "re-vitalise her flagging political carreer" - Naw Eric, that was the spin put on it by Labour when they lost the 1983 General Election, Gerald Kaufman, however, had it pegged more accurately. He commented that Michael Foot's 1983 Labour Party Manifesto was "The longest suicide note in history". What was it that the "dynamic" Labour Left were offering the people of Britain again:

- Unilateral nuclear disarmament;
- Higher personal taxation;
- A return to a more interventionist industrial policy - Nationalisation;
- Labour to abolish the House of Lords
- UK to leave the EEC.

(By the bye Eric the red, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were among the Labour MPs newly-elected in 1983 who supported of this crap)

No bloody wonder that Foot's Labour Party lost to the Conservatives in a landslide.

Having been proved right, no self-respecting, left-wing Labour prat could ever actually own up to the fact that they'd got it wrong, or face the rather embarassing fact that the country had rejected them - yet again - so there had to be another reason. And that Eric old boy was where you got that particular line of crap about Maggie starting the Falklands War purely in order to get re-elected from. Plain truth was the country didn't trust Labour and the likes of Foot and Benn. They say that a week is a long time in politics, the General Election in 1983 was held almost one year to the day that British Forces in the Falklands were victorious, so your Labour spin doctors most certainly cannot deny that the Lady believed in forward planning - the whole premise is ridiculous of course.

The Falklands were retaken to protect and preserve the rights of the inhabitants of the Islands who have consistantly expressed their desire to remain under the protection of the British Crown.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:04 PM

POLL TAX - COUNCIL TAX COMPARISON
A town/district council requires £75,000,000 to fund the services it is by law required to provide.

The population of the town/district is 75,000 of whom 40,000 appear on the electoral role

According to the most up to date information there are 25,000 households in the town/district.

Therefore:
•        Number enjoying the benefit of the services provided by the council = 75,000
•        Number who would contribute to the required amount under Poll Tax = 40,000
•        Number who would contribute to required amount under Council Tax = 25,000

Council Tax Bill = £75,000,000 / 25,000 = £3000 with only one third of the population paying for the services enjoyed by 75,000 people.

Poll Tax Bill = £75,000,000 / 40,000 = £1875 with all those of voting age, 53% of the population paying for the services enjoyed by 75,000 people.

So under the Council Tax Scheme there are 15,000 people, voting, wage-earners or pensioners living in that district who take full benefit of the services provided by the Council who vote and have a say in what gets done, who do not contribute a penny. That seem fair to you Stigweard.

"This means someone earning £60k a year pays the same as someone earning £15k a year"

That is an irrelevance are costs of anything else determined upon what people earn - a £15 taxi ride is the same irrespective on what you earn.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:20 PM

I must say that I find this aparticularly mean spirited thread. Full of venom and ignorance. Too bad isn't it ?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:50 PM

I'm still looking forward to an answer from one of the esteemed posters to mine 10.3 @ 4.40 p.m.


   Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:56 PM

There is a small flaw in your poll tax maths Teribus. It assumes that the people who owed it paid it.

The fact is that they didn't - it was an easy tax to avoid. Tax on buildings gets paid - the people may move but the buildings don't.

The problem is that it needs to have more bands so that those with the huge houses in the posh suburbs pay more.

Remarkably the old rateable system was complained about loud and long by the rich - it was one of the few taxes they couldn't avoid.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:58 PM

Any tax that is not related to income is bound to be unbalanced, and likely to be unfair as well.

G


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 02:36 PM

"It assumes that the people who owed it paid it." - Folkiedaves stated flaw with regard to Poll Tax.

Bigger and better than that Folkiedave what you have stated there is part of the UK's problem - ALL TAX systems are based upon the presumption that people who owe it pay it. Problem is that far, far too many in the UK want a free ride, like those who should pay for services provided by Councils yet who don't. That is why your services are crap and underfunded. That is why they are being degraded to the point of national embarassment (Any idea how filthy the UK is now Folkiedave - you are living in a dumpster). Those who are not prepared to pay have no right to complain, or demand that others should pay more.

I do not believe that you can avoid Council Tax either, but it is based on the actual value of your home established by arbitrary assessment. Houses that were expensive at the start of the scheme appreciate in value at a lesser rate than cheaper houses, because of supply and demand, so stand-by for the next assessment.

Local Taxes are simple you know how much you need to provide the services and they are the same for all, costs should be the same for all. The differential in taxes where your earnings are taken into account is in what you pay in income tax, this also includes tax at top rate on what your savings earn you. The differential in taxes where what you own is taken into account is what your family has to pay in inheritance tax.

All indirect taxation is a matter of choice, you chose what you want to spend your money on.

OK how many bites get taken out of the cherry before folks with money decide to move? Who pays the tax then? The rich folks have moved so how do you make up the shortfall? You tax the poor - As an SNP member Giok you can ask Shur Shaun, your SNP pal, it'll only cost you a phone call to the Bahamas.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 02:44 PM

Scotland today.


G


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 04:20 PM

Oh Giok I can see that one just sailing through, especially when everybody works out what it is going to cost to implement, administer and collect.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 04:39 PM

It's ok, I'm a patient pwerson, i can wait for a while, quite a qhile before the silence starts to get me suspicious.

Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 04:54 PM

All the time in the world

Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 04:03 AM

Teribus;
Point 1...
No, I just can't be arsed. One-eyed, selective-quoting-the-statistics right wingers should always have the last word. When they have no-one to fight with, they shut up and go away, and the rest of us can get on with living a balanced, fair and just life.
I've had enough of the bile on both sides, I'm out of here.
Tim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 05:43 PM

Still nothing from Teribus, skarpi and co. Hm


   Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 06:41 PM

Ivor:

"Teribus,skarpi, et al, why would you say you are on the right ?"

Can't speak for anybody else, but your question is based one very basic misconception. Just because I am not on the left, it does not necessarliy follow that I must therefore be on the right.

Apart from which it is none of your damn business, there is no way whatsoever that I have to justify myself to you or anybody else on this forum.

Wait over?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 12 Mar 08 - 06:59 PM

Thanks for that.

it's a start.

If we have an argument about politics, I can't quite see what's so terrible about getting down to real basics. SAfter all, our views on anything (especially the political) is surely derived from the fundameentals I was asking about.

I'm asking about the basis of people's views, in my view not really the same as requesting anyone to Z"justify themselves"

I'm not asking about your 'self', but the basis of your arguments.


best wishes

Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 04:01 AM

As Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher was a classical fascist who walked with fascists and used fascist methods to support the privileged.
She used the British Police Force as a private army to oppose any efforts by workers to better themselves. In the words of one of her predecessors she 'pawned the family silver' for the benefit of the wealthy, and in doing so, tore Britain in half.
I agree entirely with people who say that those who came after her are little better than she was, including the present occupants of Downing Street, but without her efforts they would not have got away with it.
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 05:01 AM

"Margaret Thatcher was a classical fascist who walked with fascists and used fascist methods to support the privileged.
She used the British Police Force as a private army to oppose any efforts by workers to better themselves." - Jim Carroll

Complete and utter crap, the above is the typical emotive whining of a bitter militant socialist who has seen his dream of left-wing anarchy disappear in the wake.

Out of curiosity I'd like to know what exactly were those, "efforts by workers to better themselves." that the British Police Force opposed - Did chucking 21 kilo slabs of concrete through taxi windows from motorway bridges have anything to do with it Jim? What were those particular workers improving - their aim?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Gervase
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 05:18 AM

I'm with Zhou en Lai on this - it's too early to tell. My own feeling is that posterity will see her as a necessary evil; a caustic corrective to an ailing system who then went on too long and who ended up damaging the very system she thought she was saving. Her legacy lives on today in the presidential system perfected by Blair, and in the use of 'spin' and attack so adroitly mastered by Bernard Ingham and in the erosion of real democracy while paying lip-service to the voice of the people.
In a hundred years, when the last miner and steelworker have gone to their graves and those who won and lost are merely anonymous names we may well have a very different view, however.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 07:10 AM

Efforts by workers to better themselves Teribus? They were called Trade Unions. They brought people together, gave them a community identity beyond their own selfishness and race group, educated people about history and politics, showed them how their interests differed from those of the rich..... no wonder she wanted to destroy them, and sad that she succeeded. The result was New Labour.

I'll say this for her though- she wouldn't have given in to the fuel tax pickets if she'd decided on that policy- she wasn't a coward like Blair. She was a bastard and a wrecker, but she had courage. So, of course, did the SS, suicide bombers, and kamikaze pilots.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:43 AM

"posterity will see her as a necessary evil; a caustic corrective to an ailing system who then went on too long and who ended up damaging the very system she thought she was saving."

Possibly, however those at the time of her election victory in 1979 were heartily sick of what had gone on for the15 years before. There were three courses of action open to her and her Government:
•        Capitulated to the Trades Unions a-la Ted Heath which would have been very populist and which would have bankrupted the country within the life of her first Parliament.
•        Do a serious bit of "Fence Sitting" to see which way the wind was going to blow then follow along. The end result would have been the same disaster as detailed above only it would have taken just that little bit longer.
•        Realize that things cannot go on simply as they have been, that the British economy is bust and needs to be fixed radically.

Now the first two was basically Wilson, Callaghan and Heaths way in which no "leadership" is exercised at all. Oddly enough the alternatives advocated in 1983 by the likes of Foot and Benn were so reactionary that the country could only reject them.

As for "going on too long", I would tend to disagree, she was replaced by a ditherer aided and abetted by a bunch of buffoons who were completely lacking in ideas or conviction, and it was they "who ended up damaging the very system" she saved. NuLabour has of course frittered it all away, and that is becoming more and more apparent every day.

"Her legacy lives on today in the presidential system perfected by Blair, and in the use of 'spin' and attack so adroitly mastered by Bernard Ingham and in the erosion of real democracy while paying lip-service to the voice of the people."

The "presidential system" was dreamt up by Blair, Mendelson and Campbell. It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Margaret Thatcher or the Conservative party. What Maggie and Sir Bernard were experts of was the controlled "leak" and attack, not "spin" and attack. The "spin" part again came in with Mendelson and Campbell. Margaret Thatcher restored democracy she most certainly did not erode it to the extent that Tony Blair and Gordon of Cartoon have done.

Oh yes, "the voice of the people", very good. If you made up a list of what should be done according to "the voice of the people", I think that you would be rather shocked. The job of those elected is to either govern, or provide an effective opposition to that government. Being in the best position to ascertain all the known facts, they are best equipped to debate the pros and cons. As for "the voice of the people" – the people couldn't even tell you collectively what the country should have for breakfast, they are therefore the least qualified to actually address any problem facing the nation, being unaware of the detailed nature of the problem and totally unbriefed with regard to alternative options available and their respective consequences.

Guest PMB:
"Efforts by workers to better themselves Teribus? They were called Trade Unions. They brought people together, gave them a community identity beyond their own selfishness and race group, educated people about history and politics, showed them how their interests differed from those of the rich..... no wonder she wanted to destroy them, and sad that she succeeded. The result was New Labour."

Trades Unions, as they existed in the UK in between 1945 and 1985 – selfless, enlightened, humanitarians they most certainly were not. Their motto was "We want what's right for us and fuck-the-country".

Educated people about history and politics, did they? Brain-washed them more like. I can remember reading in Jimmy Knapp's obituary of how he often missed school, but never missed a Sunday at the militant socialist Sunday School where he was taught about the delights of living under the idyll that was communist Russia in the 1930's. I ask you how bizarre is that?

The only thing they educated people about were the politics of envy, that excellence was something to be despised and pulled down. They were the ones who preached division, and still do to this day. What was it I said previously about the UK under NuLabour, they have taught us to "revel in self-abasement and mediocrity" – that is what your Trades Unions and New Labour have given you.

By the bye the choice was either New Labour, or No Labour. Politicians, being politicians opted for their only chance to get into power and ditched every principle and promise in order to get there – fuck all to do with Margaret Thatcher, but Blair and Brown knew that her policies were on the right tack.

What you have now is
- A Home Secretary who admittedly is afraid to walk on the pavements near her home at night.
- A senior Police Officer who moved house rather confront a group of teenagers who used to hang around sitting on the wall of his house.
- Drunken fifteen year olds kicking people to death in the street

Now you tell me what happened to all those New labour Election promises from 1997 PMB? Remember "Education, Education, Education", or alternatively do you remember "Tough on Crime". All Maggies fault, a woman who left office nearly 20 years ago - How fuckin' convenient, thank Christ the crowd that's in at the moment don't have anything to do with it, after all they've only been in power with a massive working majority for 11 years.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 08:51 AM

- A Home Secretary who admittedly is afraid to walk on the pavements near her home at night.
- A senior Police Officer who moved house rather confront a group of teenagers who used to hang around sitting on the wall of his house.
- Drunken fifteen year olds kicking people to death in the street


All the direct result of the changes Thatcher deliberately brought about. 1950s? Strong trade unions, high self- esteem, strong social self- discipline. 2000's? Impotent unions, no worker protection, fragmented society, self- valuation in terms of admen's images, selfishness, violence and ignorant daily Mail rants.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:10 AM

Oh wannabee dictator - re-read what you said. She stole from the poor to give to the rich. Even in your own words it is clear. If you don't remember the conservatives actually canvassing in a tank you were not watching.

The problems we now have all stem from the fact that our "Labour" government has not got the balls to undo all of what that gouging bitch did.

As far as local taxation is concerned, it should be based on the principle of movement from those who can afford to those who need. Therefore a simple diversion of income tax and other revenue and gains taxes would be appropriate. VAT should also be removed and replaced by revenue taxes. Anyone living here should pay revenue and gains taxes, and those who live here part of the time should pay our taxes on UK income and a proportion (time apportioned) of their worldwide income subject to treaty double-tax relief.

The prime reason IMHO for current crime levels is that that woman destroyed any idea of social cohesion and replaced it with Gordon Gecko grabbing. We see those who gamble currencies, destroy businesses, using borrowed money and produce nothing of use live like lords and claim to be above the law - "tax me and I'll go away". No wonder there is a substratum who feel that nothing legitimate they do can save them. Eventually the worm turns.

If we don't get society back (remember the "there is no such thing as society" soundbite) then sooner or later, dear dictator, you will get the Molotov cocktails you so richly deserve.   It would be really, really nice if that woman, crippled with arthritis and in pain with the abscesses that her hospital reforms condemned so many others to, watching out of her asylum window, could see the flames start to rise, and know that it was all the testament to her genesis.

I know some who should be in there with her.

It won't be immigration that gives us rivers of blood. It will be exploitation.

And people like you should go up against the wall.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 10:12 AM

"All the direct result of the changes Thatcher deliberately brought about."

Utter nonsense, how what somebody did between twenty and thirty years ago be the direct cause of what a fifteen year old is doing now I find rather hard to believe.

"1950s? Strong trade unions, high self- esteem, strong social self- discipline."

Ah, so it had nothing to do with the fact that the vast majority of adults in the 1950's had experienced the largest armed conflict in the history of the planet, or failing that had all done their National Service. That's where your discipline came from. No shortage of opportunities either, massive amounts of work had to be done to repair the war damage during the 1950's. Attendance at school and respect for teachers in the 1950's compared to 2000's. Church attendance during the 1950's compared to 2000's. Ratio of working women 1950's to 2000's is what? Number of single parent families 1950's compared to 2000's is what?

Oh right, as a "socialist" the Government has to give us jobs, the Government has to look after our children - Bollocks. Its the socialist free-ride addiction, "Somebody else's fault, somebody else must pay". You know all your rights but none of your responsibilities, failure to balance that up is what is destroying the UK, nothing whatsoever to do with Margaret Thatcher, but she did highlight that 20 years ago.

Now come on tell us about Blair's, "Education, Education, Education", and his "Tough on Crime". Hey PMB have you still got your little card from the 1997 General Election? You know the one with those ten Labour promises. Score (fulfilled v unfulfilled) was 0 - 10 at the last election, well I mean for fucks sake they've only had 11 years - obviously slow starters, better give 'em a bit of time, eh?. They want to watch because I think they'll come a cropper at the next General Election particularly after yesterday's Budget.

"As far as local taxation is concerned, it should be based on the principle of movement from those who can afford to those who need."

The incentive here Richard, is to do what exactly? Result we all become "those who need", its cheaper, what then?

"Therefore a simple diversion of income tax and other revenue and gains taxes would be appropriate."

That would provide incentive for those with money to move, which would result in you taking in less money than you are taking in now. You still have the same bills to pay so you then must tax the poor.

"VAT should also be removed and replaced by revenue taxes."

Not quite that simple though is it Richard. VAT exists because we are in the EU, that is the money that we shovel across to Brussels so that those unelected EU-Commissioner wasters (Kinnock & Mendelson) can squander it in a totally unaccountable fashion. So think again.

"Anyone living here should pay revenue and gains taxes, and those who live here part of the time should pay our taxes on UK income and a proportion (time apportioned) of their worldwide income subject to treaty double-tax relief."

Again the above would only provide incentive for those with money to move, which would result in you taking in less money than you are taking in now. You still have the same bills to pay so you then must tax the poor.

"If we don't get society back...yak, yak,yak" Did somebody steal it Richard? How do you steal society? This by the way is the full version of that "sound byte" which all you ranting socialist prats refuse to quote for some reason:

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation." - (Prime minister Margaret Thatcher, talking to Women's Own magazine, October 31 1987)

I particularly liked this one from you Richard, it says volumes about you and the political cause that you espouse:

"It would be really, really nice if that woman, crippled with arthritis and in pain with the abscesses that her hospital reforms condemned so many others to, watching out of her asylum window, could see the flames start to rise, and know that it was all the testament to her genesis.

I know some who should be in there with her.

It won't be immigration that gives us rivers of blood. It will be exploitation.

And people like you should go up against the wall."

What you are required to do is take responsibility for your own life and work. The typical militant socialist response - petulant threats of violence. What a pathetic, sorry bunch of motherfuckers you are.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:11 AM

There is no point anymore in replying to the Tory Binge Poster, his mind is made up, stop trying to confuse him with the facts, he knows, greed is good fuck the less well off, scrounging labour bastards.

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:24 AM

Just for the record Eric the red, I am not the one threatening anybody with Molotov Cocktails or with being lined up against a wall - True?

Now then a little test of personal honesty. You point out to me exactly where I have ever stated, "Greed is good fuck the less well off". If you cannot, then I expect a retraction and an apology from you. If you cannot and that retraction and apology are not forthcoming then I will stand by what I stated to Richard Bridge in my previous post:

"What a pathetic, sorry bunch of motherfuckers you are."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:47 AM

Well then ? are all your pro Thatcher pro tory rambling just in the public interest then ? why are you so determined to educate all us non believers ? why do you appear to have an axe to grind in defence of Thatcher, you also appear to have great volumes of tory manifesto/records to quote from, why is anyone who doesn't agree with you a sorry motherfucker ?

Answer this question, why are OAPs shivering and dying of cold in their homes for fear of turning up the central heating [ if they have any ] because Thatchers policy of selling the family jewels to the highest bidder [ ie. privatisation ] while the power companies make vast profits and if you can't pay you can go to the wall ? oh and I agree, aided and abetted by this sorry excuse for a Labour government, for a rich country this is a poor legacy of her race for riches at all cost.

Come on and admit how well you did out of the Thatcher years.

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:49 AM

Oh and by the way, you ought to know that here on the Mudcat people have a very short attention span, and generaly don't read posts that stretch more than one screen.

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 12:07 PM

What's wrong Eric, couldn't you find where I'd said, ""Greed is good fuck the less well off"? Both you and I know full well that you won't be able to don't we.

You have shown how honest you are - you even lie to yourself. The epithet I applied does denote people who disagree with me, it does however go for people who threaten me with violence and those who support them.

Oh those "OAPs shivering and dying of cold in their homes for fear of turning up the central heating". Labour have had eleven years to put that right haven't they?

Have a good Easter, I'm off on a trip, hopefully we'll take in some of the Gosport & Fareham Festival.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 12:09 PM

Correction:

"The epithet I applied does denote people who disagree with me"

Should of course read

"The epithet I applied does NOT denote people who disagree with me"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: theleveller
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 01:13 PM

Teribus wrote:
"Out of curiosity I'd like to know what exactly were those, "efforts by workers to better themselves." that the British Police Force opposed - Did chucking 21 kilo slabs of concrete through taxi windows from motorway bridges have anything to do with it Jim? What were those particular workers improving - their aim?"

Having lived in the Selby Coalfields at the time of the miners' strike, there is no doubt that the force used by the police was both disproportionate and unprovoked. Here is a description of the conflict at Gascoigne Wood, which, having lived just a couple of miles away, I believe to be largely correct:

"The atmosphere had been jovial, the pickets confident of their personal strength against the equally numbered police, as the pickets non-violently but relentlessly pushed forward they were singing. A sergeant after trying to hold back the swell but finally inched off the road conceded good naturedly "I think that's one to you !". Next the police drew back a few paces, a moment passed, then they drew truncheons and charged, swinging and smashing into the packed ranks of pickets. At this moment the pickets fell back into a ploughed field, and having nothing else to hand volleyed the police with lumps of clay and earth. The sky for a few minutes was black with flying mud. Both channels cut and reversed the film to show the clods of earth being thrown and THEN the baton charge, at the same time the pundits announcing:- "Police were forced to draw batons to protect themselves against stone throwing pickets!"

And before you say I'm biased in this, let me tell you that my eldest son is a police officer and that I blame Scargill for the demise of the British coal industry as much as I do Thatcher. The clash of egos is still echoing around this part of Yorkshire. I pass Gascoigne Wood colliery twice a day on the train and it breaks my heart to watch as it is dismantled bit by bit and carted away.

And as for Thatcher's legacy a bit further south in Sheffield....

I dodn't wish the evil old woman any harm but let's hope that we never see that kind of politics ever again; her 'everyone for themselves' approach is, as Richard Bridge said, responsible for the breakdown of social values that we are experiencing today.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Folkiedave
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 01:39 PM

The TV companies also reversed the order of what happened at the Battle of Orgreave as was proved in the ocurts much later when those charged with offences were acquitted.

I did warn people a week or two ago that Teribus holds people to account for what they have written.

And for what it is worth - Teribus does not live in this country so his experience is mostly second-hand. Indeed he did say in another thread that he lived in a high-tax, high-spend country. And enjoyed it.

That still true old fruit?

Teribus the difference between the rich and the poor is that the poor are rarely able to avoid taxes, so when the rich do so. the burden falls on those least able to pay.

Remember the Vestey's?

"In 1980, a Sunday Times investigation revealed that in 1978, the Dewhurst chain paid £10 tax on a profit of more than £2.3m."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 01:46 PM

What I predict is a lot less than the harm that bitch's friends did, and a lot less than she did.

She and they have done the harm, caused the suffering, broken the society. And now you say she does not deserve payback? She you and your ilk made damned sure that those who used legitimate means to oppose you were railroaded. I do no more than condemn the guilty. You've been doing it since the acts of enclosure, since outlawing unions, since outlawing oaths and combinations.

You think there's some sort of injustice in reaping as you sowed?

Incredible hypocrisy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 01:48 PM

PS - yes, I know we can't (unless we leave the EU) replace VAT with a less regressive tax, but that is not a reason why we shouldn't.

We could work round it with a rebate system against other taxes, though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM

I'd say that lawyers have done a great deal to harm our society too. Not just here, but in the USA as well. People are frightened to touch one another, talk to one another as they once did, we can no longer even pick a child up, without fear of being accused of something terrible.

When everyone is treated as a potential paedeophile, or rapist, etc.etc.etc..then society ceases to function in a normal way.

I get so fed up with hearing how ONE woman is responsible for where we are now in society.

Political correctness, lawyers, greed, corporate industry, the crazed corporate education system, New Labour and it's Orwellian Values....ALL are to blame, as is the majority of the British population, who have become so deeply apathetic.

It is 18 years since she was in charge. EIGHTEEN years. And in all that time the hatred that flourishes in the far left and the far right, has divided this country. It is time to get rid of that hatred once and for all, and move on, together.

We are one country, one people.

And by the way, you truly do NOT have to do as Mrs.Thatcher told you, or Tony Blair or Gordon Brown. You are still...but only just about...FREE people with minds of your own.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 02:58 PM

QUOTE All Maggies fault, a woman who left office nearly 20 years ago - How fuckin' convenient, thank Christ the crowd that's in at the moment don't have anything to do with it, after all they've only been in power with a massive working majority for 11 years. UNQUOTE

Well I rmember when Thatch was in, she blamed the previous Labour Govt. for as long as possible, and when that was lossing power, after 15 years or so, she started blaming it all on the 60', "20 years before".i QUOTE We are one country, one people. UNQUOTE

rEMINDS ME OF AN OLD pRIVATE eYE CARTOON OF 2 CITY GENTS TALKING. one's saying, "I look forward to the time we are one country - never did much like the other one."


[No offence meant, nothing personal,Appaloosa]


I still think we should be having a discussion at a deeper level. You know, where the action really is.


   Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 04:48 PM

Absolutely no offence taken Ivor, no worries. :0)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Art Thieme
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 10:41 PM

A definition I've always thought too often to be quite accurate: Power = the extent to which you can inconvenience and discommode others---.

Srt


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 03:50 AM

Hey Teribus, why don't you tell us how well YOU did out of the Thatcher years ?

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:17 AM

Speaking, for the moment, as a lawyer, I would point out that lawyers don't make the law. They merely seek to apply it for the benefit of their clients. Laws are mostly made by our masters in parliament, and indeed since 1972 by our masters in Brussells, and to a pretty limited extent by judges.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:18 AM

PS. The bitch condemned millions to poverty and oppression, and thousands to suffering and death. Just one payback cannot amount to sufficient retribution.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:37 AM

These threads certainly bring the rats out of the wainscotting - very revealing to see workers and their elected representatives being depicted as 'concerte slab throwers'. A handy guide to see where people are coming from though.
Why did Thatcher throw her weight behind keeping Pinochet out of jail? Won't hold my breath for an answer.
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:40 AM

Norman Tebbitt's dad would like the suggestion that she be buried with her arse sticking out of the ground - it would give him somewhere to park his bike.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 06:51 AM

Didn't Mrs T once say "There is no alternative" (TINA)?

TINA to the 'Free Market'!

TINA to a small group of individuals owning most of the world's wealth.

TINA to a world in which a a significant proportion of the world's population is condemned to poverty and starvation.

TINA to a world in which inconceivably huge amounts of money are devoted to the military and ever more destructive weapons.

TINA to a world in which the weapons can be sold to anyone with enough money, even though those weapons are then mainly devoted to the slaughter of defenceless women, children and poor people.

TINA to a world in which torture is seen as a regrettable, but ultimately acceptable, method of oppression.   

TINA to never ending 'economic growth' in which the world's resources are assumed to be infinite and can be used up at exponential rates.

TINA to catastrophic climate change and mass extinction.

If there is no alternative to those things, perhaps we should all give up now - THERE HAS TO BE AN ALTERNATIVE!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 08:19 AM

TINA, yup we're still dancing to Hildas Cabinet Band I'm afraid.

eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: autolycus
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 09:11 AM

One interesting intellectual confusion raised there.

Yes she was always on about TINA.

So what happened to her other theme, the Conservative one about choice.

With TINA, choice disappears.

neat sleight-of-thought.


    Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 09:46 AM

I do not wish ill luck upon anyone. However, I would not wish to become a friend of someone, who consorted unrepentantly with the criminals Jeffrey Archer, Jonathon Aitken and Augosto Pinochet. That is not the sort of company, which I would wish to keep.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: The last days of Thatcher
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 01:33 PM

Having read some of the statements from the Thatcherites contributing to this thread, I think I will will reconsider my first sentence on my original contribution to this topic.
To borrow a line from the ballad about her fellow Tory, Lord Leitrim:
"May the devil eat her rump and stump way down in Donegal".... or wherever she ends her days.
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 26 May 6:03 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Cafι Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.