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What is Acoustic Rock?

Ruth Archer 25 Feb 08 - 07:02 PM
Richard Bridge 25 Feb 08 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 25 Feb 08 - 03:06 PM
The Sandman 25 Feb 08 - 02:26 PM
Ernest 25 Feb 08 - 02:18 PM
PoppaGator 25 Feb 08 - 01:46 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 25 Feb 08 - 11:26 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Feb 08 - 06:29 AM
Folkiedave 25 Feb 08 - 05:24 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Feb 08 - 03:18 AM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 24 Feb 08 - 03:03 PM
Gene Burton 24 Feb 08 - 02:09 PM
GUEST,Nigerl Spencer (cookieless) 24 Feb 08 - 12:06 PM
GUEST 24 Feb 08 - 12:02 PM
M.Ted 24 Feb 08 - 11:27 AM
KeithofChester 24 Feb 08 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,Ruth - arrrgh! 24 Feb 08 - 06:00 AM
GUEST 24 Feb 08 - 05:56 AM
The Borchester Echo 24 Feb 08 - 05:08 AM
The Borchester Echo 24 Feb 08 - 04:57 AM
KeithofChester 24 Feb 08 - 04:46 AM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 24 Feb 08 - 04:16 AM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 24 Feb 08 - 04:09 AM
KeithofChester 24 Feb 08 - 04:02 AM
The Borchester Echo 24 Feb 08 - 02:33 AM
Gene Burton 24 Feb 08 - 02:18 AM
M.Ted 23 Feb 08 - 11:33 PM
Suegorgeous 23 Feb 08 - 10:53 PM
Gene Burton 23 Feb 08 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Clogger 23 Feb 08 - 07:14 AM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 22 Feb 08 - 01:53 PM
Gene Burton 22 Feb 08 - 12:20 PM
Peace 22 Feb 08 - 11:49 AM
GUEST,Nigel Spencer (sans cookie) 22 Feb 08 - 11:37 AM
Peace 22 Feb 08 - 10:09 AM
Green Man 21 Feb 08 - 10:42 AM
Gene Burton 21 Feb 08 - 09:40 AM
KeithofChester 21 Feb 08 - 09:31 AM
Gene Burton 21 Feb 08 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,Nigel spencer (sans cookie) 21 Feb 08 - 09:12 AM
KeithofChester 21 Feb 08 - 08:54 AM
Grab 21 Feb 08 - 08:27 AM
Ruth Archer 21 Feb 08 - 07:41 AM
Gene Burton 21 Feb 08 - 06:34 AM
Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) 21 Feb 08 - 03:49 AM
Richard Bridge 21 Feb 08 - 03:19 AM
Severn 20 Feb 08 - 11:03 PM
The Fooles Troupe 20 Feb 08 - 08:38 PM
PoppaGator 20 Feb 08 - 03:11 PM
Ruth Archer 20 Feb 08 - 02:01 PM
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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 07:02 PM

"who cares?
I would rather listen to Harry Cox,Nic Jones,Roscoe Holcomb and Clarence Ashley."

right there with you, Captain B. except when I'm listening to stuff that's not.

But mostly, right there with you. :)


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 06:01 PM

I think however that we can respect, and treat as historically and culturally significant, not only English Folk music and other Folk music, but also (and without limitation) blues (Delta and Chicago), R&B (correctly so-called) and various forms of jazz.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 03:06 PM

"who cares?
I would rather listen to Harry Cox,Nic Jones,Roscoe Holcomb and Clarence Ashley.
and some folk would rather listen to acoustic rock, which is why this thread was probably started in the first place

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 02:26 PM

who cares?
I would rather listen to Harry Cox,Nic Jones,Roscoe Holcomb and Clarence Ashley.
http://www.dickmiles.com


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Ernest
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 02:18 PM

...and this is probably the reason why contemporary jazz musicians/fans often sneer at New Orleans style jazz...


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 01:46 PM

drift alert...

I agree with Richard Bridge that the current (or perhaps "a" current) usage of the label "RnB" is entirely incorrect. Some current commentators seem to use this term to describe any and all music marketed to the African-American public which is neither rap/hip-hop nor gospel ~ that is, the term is used to classify contemporary ballads, generally heavy with synthesized strings, which is neither rhythmic nor particularly "bluesy."

Historical usage of RnB/R&B refers to a genre of music that first appeared just after World War II in the black community. It was around that time that the title for the Billboard chart intended to tracks sales of such records was changed from "Race Records" to "Rhytm and Blues." At the same time, the availability of amplification, and especially of the electric guitar, made it economically possible (if not imperative) that touring bands now consist of a half-dozen or fewer musicians, not a full "big-band" complement of players. All you needed now to entertain a loud barrom crowd was an electric guitar, bass and drums, plus maybe a single saxophone and/or an elctric organ.

Examples of the music orignally called R&B include the works of Louis Jordan, Big Joe Turner, the less-widely-known Professor Longhair, Huey Piano Smith, Guitar Slim, etc., etc. This music (surprisingly, to some) found an audience among younger white folk, and was soon renamed "rock and roll" (presumably to eliminate the previous racial identification).

Now that "rock and roll," and even the slightly-more-specific "rock," have become very broad categories that include plenty of music that lacks the "roots"/blues intensity of the original stuff, I tend to use the term "R&B" (if only in my own mind, if not publicly) to classify a type of music that I like much more than I like the contemporary black-easy-listening genre that some folks now call "RnB."

Incidentally, my own feeling is that "real" R&B, and specifically 1950s-60s New Orleans R&B as recorded in Cosimo Matassa's studio by the likes of Little Richard, Ray Charles, Fats Domino, the aforementioned Professor Longhair and Huey Smith, et al, is the true successor to the original "trad" jazz music born in N.O. ~ at least as validly, if not moreso, than the cerebral music of Miles Davis, John Coltrane and others and their successors. The first jazz music was dance music ~ physical booty-shaking music ~ and players schooled in jazz provided the backbone of those early R&B recordings. "Modern jazz," on the other hand, is intended to be heard in a polite, meditative manner, with the audience sitting still and listening quietly. Good music, certainly, but not the rowdy good-time sound that Buddy Bolden, Kid Ory, Sidney Bechet, and Satchmo originally had in mind...


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 11:26 AM

yet another musical genre arguement that's going round in ever decreasing circles...or as my late mother was wont to say...going nowhere fast

Charlotte (playing Flight of the Bumble Bee)


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 06:29 AM

The assumption that because the meaning of "rock" changes so does the meaning of "folk" or "RnB" is ill-founded. "Rock" (etc) are stylistic definitions (if they can be called definitions). "Folk" is not. Go and read the 1954 definition again. It depends on source, and on medium of transmission, which are not as subjective as style.

If the expressions "folklore" and "folk arts" and "folk dance" have meaning, why not "folk song" and "folk music"?

RnB seems more arguable. At its start, it was largely synonymous with "race music" which did depend on an objectively (I'll make that "almost objectively" since framers of race laws the world over have found the defintion of race a bit slippery) definable source. If that was the function of the term, then current usage is incorrect.

THe problem with "Acoustic ROck" is two-fold. THere is much current music that is getting called "folk" that in no rational sense can be called "folk" so an attractive label is needed. THe second is that simply by counting examples, one can discern groups of stylistic patterns or formats for known types of folk music. But the adoption of that format does not make music folk music.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 05:24 AM

With respect, anybody who thinks folk is as popular now as it was say in the '60s is IMO a little deluded [.....] or are they merely passive consumers of the "product" in the same way that Winehouse/Mika fans (a hugely bigger group) are? I would posit the latter.

Accepting the fact that the protagonist of this is on the Pembrokeshire Coastal Path - and good luck to him, I really think he needs to get out more.

There is far more "folk" music far, far more - than there ever was in the "hey day" of folk clubs - and unlike Gene I am old enough to have been at both places. Though we had folk clubs - we rarely had sessions - you could rustle up a few guitar players the odd concertina player, that was it. A few guitar players do not a session make. There were a few festivals, now there are dozens and dozens.

A whole variety of instruments abound - let me mention a few from Cheltenham festival; apart from the obvious fiddles guitars melodeons, flutes accordions and bodhrans - I saw at least three hammer dulcimer players, a couple of saxes, a few recorder players, whistles, an ordinary and a bass clarinet. And as a stallholder I never left the Town Hall so goodness knows what there were out in the pub sessions.

So far from being passive consumers - folkies are active particpants in music making. Far more than there ever were. Folk clubs are less. That's all. (They seem to be growing incidentally)

And there are seem to be hundreds more singer - songwriters than there ever were.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 03:18 AM

I thought it was like Blackpool Rock, but from the Seaside town of Accoustic...

Agree about the usage of the term folk - But isn't it just the same as all the other definitions? The 'new' R&B certainly ain't the stuff that Chuck Berry was doing in the 50's and the Rock produced by Slipknot is a far cry from what I liked in the 60's. Definitions move on. Tastes change. Music evolves. Why categorise any of it?

D.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:03 PM

Still don't understand what you mean. "What it means is what it means" doesn't really clarify things! Not to worry, though. The Pembrokeshire coast sounds a far more enjoyable option. So, yup, let's put this one to bed.

As a by-the-by, I try to keep my posts reasonably civil, even when I disagree with people. So... I kind of resent being called "deluded" for expressing an opinion you disagree with. You'll notice that in my posts even when I'm arguing passionately about something I try not to get personal. Again, just sayin'...

cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Gene Burton
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:09 PM

Nigel, it meant exactly what it means. And no, I assuredly do NOT have myself in mind! (I lack the looks and charisma, and at 27 time, in popular culture terms, is not on my side)   

With respect, anybody who thinks folk is as popular now as it was say in the '60s is IMO a little deluded. We all saw those folk britannia programmes last year, we all saw the archive footage of clubs packed out with young people listening intently to the folk artists of the time...where has all that gone? The festival scene, ah yes, but that's a bit different. Are those audiences being inspired to sing folk songs themselves as the club audiences back then clearly were, or are they merely passive consumers of the "product" in the same way that Winehouse/Mika fans (a hugely bigger group) are? I would posit the latter.

Tha said, we're clearly never going to agree, and I'm too tired to continue arguing about it. Have a pleasant evening...

BTW, people, I'm gonna hit the Pembrokeshire Coast path & enjoy my last week of freedom before (finally!) starting full time work again; so this'll be my last contribution on this thread. Thanks for keeping it going so long...:)


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: GUEST,Nigerl Spencer (cookieless)
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 12:06 PM

Sorry, that was me.

And another thing while I'm at it: Gene, from the same post - "Maybe we need to think long and hard about who on the folk scene is getting the breaks and why..."

Would you mind clarifying what you mean by this? I don't really understand.

Cheers,

Nigel


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 12:02 PM

"...Rather than blaming the decline in UK folk's popularity on the media and Joe Bloke..." to quote from Gene's post a few back.

What decline? I'd say the incredibly healthy folk festival scene indicates that far from being in decline, the folk scene is in the ascendency.

I went to see Bellowhead last year who filled a packed and sweaty hall and played a blinder. Not sure how that translates as an example of a decline.

You don't see to be able to move for ceilidh bands these days yet none of them appear to be sitting at home moping about lack of gigs.

I'm not really interested in folk clubs, but I believe some of them are still doing very well. The last time I went to one, there weren't many empty seats. It was the Bothy in Southport though, which has an excellent reputation.

The 'folk scene' clearly won't be competing with the multimillion dollar excercise in Disnification that is the mainstream music industry but a)it never did and b) why should it anyway?

Cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 11:27 AM

It was actually a droll remark, Gene--


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: KeithofChester
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 06:03 AM

Complain? And lose reading all the comedy postings that result from it. Not likely!


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: GUEST,Ruth - arrrgh!
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 06:00 AM

Guest above is me.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 05:56 AM

As Diane says, EFDSS does not employ me. I am on the National Council, but wasn't at the time of the competition that you won. So I had no allegiance to EFDSS when I saw you sing, and reiterate that, IMHO (which represents no organisation or body except little ol' me), based on my own, PERSONAL definition of what folk song is, I wouldn'ty classify you as a folk singer. I'd call you a singer-songwriter, which in my book is not a pejorative term.

Why the distinction? Purely for reasons of clarity. Otherwise, as I have expressed previously and ad nauseam, I think the F word becomes completely meaningless and we who are genuinely interested in, and somewhat protective of, the tradition need to stop using it and look elsewhere for a suitable term.

BTW, Gene - and this again is only my personal opinion - you really need to get over yourself.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 05:08 AM

Keith seems to be complaining that fRoots doesn't give coverage to the sort of music he himself wants to read about. Fine, buy another mag. At least a stated editorial policy (a conscious decision for matters of space) prevents people from being misled and not finding what they might, for some reason, be expecting to have covered.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:57 AM

New York Mining Disaster 1941

I don't know about classing it as a "f*lksong" but it is certainly rooted in a tradition and Mr Carthy does it (and recorded it on Signs Of Life. Mind you, he's also recorded Rave On, Your Baby 'As Gorn Down The Plughole, My Girl, Hen's March To The Middens, The Harry Lime Theme, Heartbreak Hotel, Hong Kong Blues, I Haven't Told Her She Hasn't Told Me, dozens of Leon Rosselson compositions as well as songs by Gilbert O'Sullivan, Sydney Carter, Leon Rosselson, Dave Goulder, Peter Bellamy, Richard Thompson, David Halton, Mike Waterson, Tommy Armstrong, Ewan MacColl & Peggy Seeger, Kay Sutcliffe, Maggie Holland, Les Barker, Berthold Brecht, Bob Dylan, Cyril Tawney, Adam MacNaughtan, Buddy Holly and by himself as well as contributing to recordings by artists as diverse as Julie Felix and Loudon Wainwright.

So what the hell IS f*lk, and who bloody cares?

As I was saying, it ain't how you do it, it's what you do.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: KeithofChester
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:46 AM

I think the Bassey/Winehouse comparison is a good one, and you can see that especially in the way Amy is being talked up as the potential singe of the next Bond theme.

Ian Anderson's definition of what he does and doesn't want to cover in his magazine matters really to no one other than him and those who choose to buy it. It's just that occasionally certain folk try to impose that definition in other places as a constraint on what should be discussed there too. Anyway, their attempts at trying to tell us what is "rooted in tradition" if it is by one artist whose they like and not if it is more or less the same song by an artist whose they don't can often be most amusing.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:16 AM

Keith, who is taking whose music away? You personally lose nothing as a result of one magazine's editorial policy. No CDs go flying off your shelves and self destruct. No artists are forced to retire.

fRoots, meanwhile, gain a little clarity as to their own function. By sharing that, they ensure that the public is not misled as to that function.

Few music magazines cover music rooted in tradition to any great extent. Plenty of them - Mojo. Uncut, Q spring to mind - cover contemporary singer songwriters.

So no problem, then.

Cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:09 AM

Mika is the new Gilbert O'Sullivan.
Amy is the new Shirley Bassey.

Won't lose any sleep or shed any tears if I never hear a single song by Gilbert or Shirley again, in either their old or new guise.

Not saying they're not good at what they do. Not saying they have no talent. Just saying I have no interest in their careers or music. Or their underpants. And that whole 'in the friggin' Mirror every friggin' day' business seriously turns me off. I don't care who they're sleeping with.

I have very eclectic tastes and I check out loads of new stuff, folk and non-folk. I've just never been drawn to and rarely been moved by mainstream pop. If I do hear something I like I'll generally own up.

I still miss John Peel.

Cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: KeithofChester
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:02 AM

As to that FAQ, to amend the words of a rather fine set of songwriters.

It's only words and words are all I have
To take your [music] away


I'd love to know how they would have classified New York Mining Disaster 1941 on a blind hearing.

IIRC, Martin Carthy does classify it as a folk song.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:33 AM

Quote from fRoots FAQ:

As a simple guide, what fRoots covers is music, however ancient or modern, that has some clear roots in a tradition. Neither the instruments or level of technology employed nor an artist's nationality are particularly relevant. For example, neither the act of playing an acoustic instrument or singing in a language other than English have a major significance either way. It ain't how you do it, it's what you do!

EFDSS & Joan Crump

The EFDSS is in the business of letting out its halls to absolutely anyone who pays the hire fee and is, apparently, not at all choosy about who enters its competitions. And Ms Crump is not an EFDSS employee but a member of its National Council.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Gene Burton
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:18 AM

Oops, think I inadvertantly revealed more than I intended to there :)

M.Ted, no.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 11:33 PM

So it all comes down to that fRoots magazine, saying "We don't review music from Acoustic Rock Singer Songwriters, we are only interested in Folk Artists' Recordings of Tradition music." Jolly good.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 10:53 PM

Gene

Really...how interesting....*flutter, girly giggle* :))


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Gene Burton
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 07:05 PM

A few more thoughts ('cos I be a thinking man, though oft times I wish I weren't)...

Firstly...of the three acts Nigel mentions in his last post, only Leona can justly be called a manufactured pop idol. Winehouse, whatever you think of her lifestyle, has clearly paid her dues and worked extremely hard not only on her image (which doesn't hurt her sales, I admit), but also on her writing and delivery. Be honest, how far do you have to go back to find another British female vocalist (in any genre) with as unique and instantly recognisable a voice? Mika, similarly, is plainly an extremely accomplished musician (check out his piano work on the recent, pared down version of "Grace Kelly"-that's hot!) AND an incredibly elastic vocalist. Again, how many acts on the folk scene have either his vocal range or charisma? Maybe we need to think long and hard about who on the folk scene is getting the breaks and why, rather than blaming the decline in UK folk's popularity on the media and Joe Bloke...seriously, how many of our leading lights are as original or as interesting (to the general music fan) to listen to as these two?

...secondly, (and far less importantly, I admit!), anybody who still thinks I'm an acoustic rock act should have a look at the Fo'c'sle's gig listings for the year...I'm too lazy to do the hyperlink, but google "southern counties folk federation" and you'll get there. They really aren't in the business of booking any rockers! While you're at it, you might also wish to consider whether the EFDSS (ironically, Ms Crump's employers) are in the business of recognising acoustic rockers...I won their songwriting prize last year, doncha know...(BTW, the EFDSS are a fine organisation doing valuable work and I have absolutely no beef with them- in fact I'm a life member)

...and finally, just to totally undermine my last point, I've spent the greater part of today finishing a song which DOESN'T draw melodically on the tradition, is backed (unlike the bulk of my work) with plectrum-driven guitar work and actually sounds an awful lot more rock-like than just about anything I've previously come up with! Which just goes to show, creativity trumps genre stereotype every time. And that my detractors are 100% right and I should purchase a codpiece, re-grow the handlebar moustache I shaved off just the other month and develop a keen interest in motorbikes and fat bottomed girls...although if the truth be told the latter has ALWAYS been an abiding interest...

ROCK ON!!!

VROOM, VROOM!


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: GUEST,Clogger
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 07:14 AM

Just as a 'by the way' - I once visited the famous Wakeley Clogs in Yorkshire to watch a demonstration of dance clog-making. There were only two of watching the clog-maker. The other one was Mark Owen from 'Take That' and he was making a purchase. My two children were too star struck to come forward and just stood in the doorway, open-mouthed and pinching themselves.

I expressed some surprise that he should want some dance clogs and wondered aloud whether he would wear them on Top of the Pops. He reminded me that he was principally a dancer and that he had grown up in Oldham - a place with strong dance traditions (English and Irish).

So there you have it. Some of those Take That dance routines may have been inspired by the English clogging tradition.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 01:53 PM

No-one, was, Gene. Just sayin'...

Cheers

Nigel


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Gene Burton
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 12:20 PM

"I'm not gonna change my listening habits to fall into line with mainstream public taste."

Forgive me, but who on here was asking you to do that? Have I missed something?


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 11:49 AM

Thank you for the clarification. I see what you mean. And I agree.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: GUEST,Nigel Spencer (sans cookie)
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 11:37 AM

Bruce, of course the public decides what it likes, but there's a world of difference between a particular, self-selecting portion of the public who wants to listen to, for instance, a Canadian singer songwriter of a certain vintage (!) and the public as a whole. The public as a whole is a bloody awful critic, because it nearly always gives the highest praise to the lowest common denominator, usually after being led by the nose by a tabloid press more interested in the colour of a singer's underpants than the quality of their product...

The three bestselling UK albums of 2007 were Amy Winehouse, Leona Lewis and Mika. Fine if you like that sort of thing: personally, I don't, and I'm not gonna change my listening habits to fall into line with mainstream public taste. Not because I'm any better than people who like that sort of music, just because it doesn't float my boat and there is plenty of stuff out there that does.

I don't have to worry about pleasing audiences because I'm just a member of the audience. As an audience member I do hope that there will remain enough artists out there who are wilful enough to do their own thing rather than just give us what they or the multinational music & light entertainment industry think we all want...

By the way, I should add that I am a complete musical snob and I have far better taste than anybody else.

Cheers,

Nigel


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 10:09 AM

Nigel,

You saying that the public--read audience--doesn't decide what it likes? That you don't 'tailor' sets to get audience approval? Huh, must be nice . . . .


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Green Man
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:42 AM

Definition of Acoustic Rock Pratchetised.

This is a sweet substance usually obtained from menacing vendors on seafronts, it's hard and requires stron jaws. When bitten it says Ouch Gerrof and things like I will tell my mum. (Hence the word acoustic)

And being hard it like rock.

:)

GM


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Gene Burton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:40 AM

"Robbie is just Seth Lakeman + a few more tatooes and less fiddle after all."

Keith, you'll be on the F*** Police hit list for saying that! Broadly true, though.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: KeithofChester
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:31 AM

I still can't abide that gurning Williams man, though...

Now even HE is OK so long as Guy Chambers writes the songs for him. Mind you, Neil Tennant did a good job yob on She's Madonna (shame about the video).

Robbie is just Seth Lakeman + a few more tatooes and less fiddle after all.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Gene Burton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:22 AM

I agree, Back For Good was always quality pop single. And the way Barlow's voice segues effortlessly between his normal range and falsetto is worth the admission fee alone, IMO.

Nigel, (chuckle), when you manage to get hold of any rare TT b-sides or bootleg live recordings, will you burn me some??

(I still can't abide that gurning Williams man, though...)


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: GUEST,Nigel spencer (sans cookie)
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:12 AM

Yup, there it goes. The last one finally melted.

Nice clean empty CD racks, ready to recieve the collected works of Gary and his chums.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: KeithofChester
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 08:54 AM

...I genuinely submit that there was some quality songwriting on Take That's latest album; and one can't deny Gary Barlow has a great voice. There's actually been a great deal of musical development, even sophistication, creep in since their boyband days.

I pointed out to several friends about 12 months back that their earlier single Patience (another Gary Barlow composition) was structured VERY similarly to Richard Thompson & Tim Finn's Persuasion.

Now of course RT is often venerated in folk circles, but Gary Barlow?

After the initial shock at quite who I was comparing with whom, several of those friends actually admited to liking the said song and saw the similarity.

By the summer last year, even the local Chester buskers weere playing it. They being a discerning lot, they certainly did NOT play Gary Barlow songs the first time round back in the early 90s, even with him a local boy. So yes, independent corroboration that his songwriting has much improved. Although the clues were there, in his earlier opus Back For Good


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Grab
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 08:27 AM

Peace, if it included various small percussion instruments, we could make a film about it: "Shakers on a Plane". A plane full of serious musicians is sabotaged by evil terrorists smuggling on shakey-eggs and tambourines. We could even have Samuel L Jackson shouting "Muthafuckin spoons-players!" before shooting them all.

Nurse, who are these people, and why are they asking me to wear a white canvas coat with such long arms...?


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 07:41 AM

Which award ceremonies have a public vote to decide the shortlist?


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Gene Burton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 06:34 AM

In all seriousness, Nigel, I genuinely submit that there was some quality songwriting on Take That's latest album; and one can't deny Gary Barlow has a great voice. There's actually been a great deal of musical development, even sophistication, creep in since their boyband days.

On the wider issue of public opinion, my perception is that the Brits are more of an industry stitch-up than anything...OK, maybe Joe Punch-Clock gets his say in the final vote, but it's the industry which determines who's on the shortlist in the first place...a bit like those "elections" in Communist countries where you mcan vote for who you like...as long as they're Party-approved.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 03:49 AM

"The public is the only critic whose opinion is worth anything at all."

Did anyone see the Brits last night?...







So's going to be the first to bow to the opinion of the great British public and accept that Take That are the best we can offer?

Cheers

Nigel (throwing away his folk CD collection in deference to public taste)


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 03:19 AM

I have had an inspiration. The issue about whether something is hard rock soft rock garage RnB soul dance trance emo screamo metal death metal heavy metal god rock or acoustic rock is about form and content.

They depend on subjective perception not any determinable parameters and absolute definition is not therefore possible.

"Folk" (correctly used) however is determined not by content but by derivation and state and is therefore definable.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Severn
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:03 PM

I submit "Long Train Gone" off of Marty Stuart's "Busy Bee Cafe" album as a tune played entirely acoustically and with no drums that definitely be said to rock out in its own way just fine.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 08:38 PM

"anyone over the age of 15 who listens to Emo really wants to have a word with themselves"

Pointless really, they're deaf, as well as stupid.... :-P


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 03:11 PM

I suppose the coffeehouse denizens I encountered were "emo" songwriter wannabes, working up their creations acoustically in hopes of eventually performing them at tortuous volume with headbanging accompaniment in other venues at another time.

These were college-age kids, more or less, at least a few years over the age of 15. Maybe they were using the term "emo" ironically.


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Subject: RE: What is Acoustic Rock?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 02:01 PM

Hi Poppagator,

My 14 year old daughter, for my sins, is an Emo. She dresses like a baby Goth, bless her. Last year I took her to a seven-hour long Emo gig (my penance for all those years of folk festivals). There was no acoustic music to be heard, and nothing that would ever get past the door of a coffee house. If only. It was VERY loud. Very electric. And then, of course, there is the lovely sub-genre called "Screamo", which pretty much does what it says on the tin. That was pleasant. Especially when my ears started to bleed.

None of the Emo music I've heard is remotely acoustic, though it is very self-involved and navel-gazing. But I would say it's more of a post-punk, post-metal phenomenon. At least in the UK.

PS: anyone over the age of 15 who listens to Emo really wants to have a word with themselves.


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