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More Music Less BS!

GUEST,A Sheepish Blackcatter 20 May 04 - 05:07 PM
GUEST 20 May 04 - 05:06 PM
GUEST 20 May 04 - 04:27 PM
Blackcatter 20 May 04 - 12:11 AM
Once Famous 19 May 04 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 19 May 04 - 11:31 AM
GUEST,MMario 19 May 04 - 09:07 AM
el ted 19 May 04 - 08:53 AM
The Fooles Troupe 19 May 04 - 12:47 AM
GUEST,Art Thieme 18 May 04 - 11:00 PM
ranger1 18 May 04 - 08:23 PM
Blackcatter 18 May 04 - 07:39 PM
Joe Offer 18 May 04 - 04:32 PM
Blackcatter 18 May 04 - 04:15 PM
Manitas_at_home 18 May 04 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,MMario 18 May 04 - 02:58 PM
greg stephens 18 May 04 - 02:54 PM
Wesley S 18 May 04 - 02:41 PM
GUEST 18 May 04 - 02:24 PM
Wesley S 18 May 04 - 01:49 PM
GUEST 18 May 04 - 01:32 PM
MMario 18 May 04 - 01:12 PM
Blackcatter 18 May 04 - 12:40 PM
GUEST 18 May 04 - 11:02 AM
Blackcatter 17 May 04 - 10:09 PM
bbc 17 May 04 - 09:53 PM
YorkshireYankee 17 May 04 - 07:52 PM
Art Thieme 17 May 04 - 12:16 PM
Wolfgang 17 May 04 - 09:43 AM
Wolfgang 17 May 04 - 09:39 AM
GUEST,MMario 17 May 04 - 09:28 AM
YorkshireYankee 17 May 04 - 09:21 AM
harpgirl 16 May 04 - 12:34 PM
Rick Fielding 26 Nov 02 - 09:34 PM
Wolfgang 26 Nov 02 - 03:06 PM
Sandy Paton 10 May 99 - 07:28 PM
Art Thieme 10 May 99 - 11:18 AM
Peter T. 10 May 99 - 10:39 AM
harpgirl 10 May 99 - 09:14 AM
Rick Fielding 08 May 99 - 01:59 PM
dick greenhaus 08 May 99 - 11:59 AM
harpgirl 08 May 99 - 11:46 AM
bbc 08 May 99 - 07:31 AM
Banjer 08 May 99 - 05:17 AM
Sandy Paton 08 May 99 - 02:27 AM
bbelle 08 May 99 - 12:23 AM
katlaughing 07 May 99 - 11:25 PM
Lonesome EJ 07 May 99 - 10:01 PM
Rick Fielding 07 May 99 - 09:35 PM
bbc 07 May 99 - 08:57 PM
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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST,A Sheepish Blackcatter
Date: 20 May 04 - 05:07 PM

Oops - sorry that above was from me. I'm at work.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 04 - 05:06 PM

I started one. Now converse damn you!


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 04 - 04:27 PM

More music. Let the BS take care of itself.

A


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 20 May 04 - 12:11 AM

ok, ok I'll start a music thread.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 May 04 - 02:52 PM

Obviously I wasn't here in the old days.

Really, even though I like to mix it up and stir up the pot in the BS section, my first love and what I was drawn to here was a way to share my music experience.

I started out in the folk boom and migrated to all facets of country and bluegrass many years ago. I am very well read on traditional country music and am somewhat of a historian on it. My perception is that traditional country music and American folk music are much the same.

However, there is not much happening here on this. Quite frankly, American folk music here seems to take a big back seat to the whole British singer/songwriter faux artist thing. I usually want nothing to do with this area.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 19 May 04 - 11:31 AM

I'm not complaining. Just taking note of a fact -- that I'm in other folk music places these days.

Art


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 19 May 04 - 09:07 AM

ART - you rarely complain either.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: el ted
Date: 19 May 04 - 08:53 AM

Q- How many folk singers does it take to change a lightbulb?

A- One, and several thousand to sing about how much better the old one was.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 May 04 - 12:47 AM

Well, it looks like I have to get off my donkey and work on the Accordion thread again then...


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 18 May 04 - 11:00 PM

Folks, my intention is not to say that those here now are better or worse than any other time. They are just different. I don't mean to say the threads are terrible or bad or good or whatever. I was making a personal statement about ME. I, me, moi can't find much I care to look into in these music threads these days. I have been here at Mudcat in times past because there were more threads I could add something to. I was simply saying that few threads now want to know anything I've got to offer. That's O.K. It's just what is. It seems to me that what is being discussed now has little to do with folk music. So be it.

Art


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: ranger1
Date: 18 May 04 - 08:23 PM

I have some problems with the search engine, but those all come from operator error, not the search engine. And yse, I'm one of those newbies who posts to frivolous BS threads. I READ a lot of the music threads and learn an enormous amount from them, but I feel that I don't know enough to post to most of them yet. I was wicked excited when I could answer a lyric request once, hopefully, I'll be able to contribute more content and less nonsense as time goes on.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 May 04 - 07:39 PM

I don't have any problems Joe.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 04 - 04:32 PM

I don't understand the complaint about the search engine. If I'm looking for a song, I put a distinctive phrase from the song into the search box, and it comes right up. If I need to narrow things down more, I use the "advanced" link. Is there something more the search engine should do?

As for the Digital Tradition, yes, I'd like to see additions and changes come more quickly, but there are technical considerations that make that difficult. We're working on solutions (by the way, Dick Greenhaus is the founder and editor of the Digital Tradition Folk song Database - Max just gives it an online home). We've tried to supplement the Digital Tradition by crosslinking related threads, and by designating certain threads "Origins" or "DTStudy" when they contain pertinent background information. If you don't find a song in the DT, use our Filter or search engine to look for threads on a song, or go to QuickLinks and use our Song Origins list.

I think the BS/Music division works pretty well, but I do have to say that at times I get peeved with people who feel compelled to start multiple threads on related topics. The current onslaught of "rubbish" and "in every thread..." topics is really getting tedious. I can't figure out how people see humor in that sort of repitition. I guess they do, though.

Anyhow, I really am puzzled about the search engine and what problems people have with it. You'll note that there is a new feature on the search engine that allows you to sort results by date order - I find that feature very useful. I was never able to find any logic to ColdFusion's default "relevance" sorting, and I'm glad Jeff has developed an alternative.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 May 04 - 04:15 PM

Well, clearly GUEST is an idiot. He or she complains all the good people have left - clearly putting GUEST outside that august group of people.

GUEST is no more than a troll whos point here is to stir up people. If GUEST truly disliked the place, GUEST would leave. Instead GUEST tries to sow discord by spewing out lies that might be believed by those who are new to the forum.

It's called poisoning the well. How pitiful must GUEST be?


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 18 May 04 - 03:08 PM

" By the time it was done, most of the truly knowledgeable people were fed up with the clubhouse and gossip atmosphere, and were already gone.

It was squandered by a group of megalomaniac control freaks, who cared more about controlling what posters said about each other, and censoring information that offends them, than they did about the database resource"

You can't have it both ways. If you want it uncontrolled then you have to put up with those who want the clubhouse and gossip atmosphere.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 18 May 04 - 02:58 PM

actually greg - Bruce continued to post up until shortly before his death - he just didn't sign anything.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 May 04 - 02:54 PM

Interesting reading an old thread like this. Very sad to see Bruce O signing out, fed up with BS. I notice he actually struggled on posting for a few months afer that, but he hasnt appeared in these pages since early 2000. I've noticed his contributions often in threads about folksongs( there still area few!), but never clicked he only appeared in threads many years old.
    I'm bored rigid by most of the BS, but I still view Mudcat with the threads mixed, not segregated. I think it gives a better picture of what's going on. (I think actually it's all the pompous self-righteousness and self-admiring clever-dickery on the subject of the iraq war that is so mind-numbingly boring, most of the rest of the BS is OK).
    Anyway. I keep returning to Mudcat. it's a very entertaining newspaper, and covers my main interest in life(folk music) in considerably more detail than the Guardian (my actual newspaper of choice).


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 May 04 - 02:41 PM

What does it cost to start one ?

Signed - Clueless


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 04 - 02:24 PM

Not anymore. Like I said, the quality of all the folk music forums has gone way down from what they were in the late 90s, and I'm certain we won't see a return to that heyday.

DigiTrad is something else entirely, though.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 May 04 - 01:49 PM

So guest - is there a "quality forum for the exchange of high quality information" out there that we need to check out ? Does it exist on the WWW ?


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 04 - 01:32 PM

The problems with Mudcat going down hill has nothing to do with guests.

The decline of the Cat has everything to do with the fact that Max decided a long time ago he wanted a clubhouse for his friends more than he wanted to provide a quality forum for the exchange of high quality information (like Musical Traditions level), so the forum became a BS paradise for flamers and trolls.

But even worse, the owners of the DigiTrad database squandered the resource, by refusing to allow the truly knowledgeable people who volunteered to help with organizing the database to do anything. Blow those people off for long enough, and pretty soon the volunteers quit offering. They should have yanked the database away from Max a long time ago, and turned it over to someone who could have done something with it.

IMNSHO.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: MMario
Date: 18 May 04 - 01:12 PM

of course if the people who constantly complain about not seeing any music threads of interest would:

a) START a music thread occasionally - maybe once a month? Nothing to interest you ? START A CONVERSATION ON SOMETHING MUSICAL THAT DOES!!!!!

b) CONTRIBUTE to music threads - rather then just read them - Gad - if nothing else - ask a question! Know someone who does an interesting variation on the song under discussion ? post the information on where people can find it...

c) learn to use the filters and search engines (they are easier then most web search engines to use)

d) possibly TEACH somebody something?

Post lyrics rather then give the reference to a 60 year out of print book 99.99% of the readers will never have access to! (Yes, Malcolm, I actually AGREE that tracking the references is important - but for most people who come looking for lyrics ANYTHING usable is better then NOTHING.)

Do people realize how many times the ONLY reference to a song that comes up in a web search originates here?

Or how about this? MINE the wealth available in the forum on a song or subject that interests you- index it and post the index!

Locate some of the missing tunes. you don't have to be able to transcribe it yourself - there are people who volunteer to do it.

Hell - I would start more music threads - but you know what? I don't KNOW enough to be able to even ask the right questions!!!!

I don't have access to a library's worth of reference books - (though I am trying to change that)

And don't discount the BS threads - I've learned a lot about various facets of music/musicians from casual comments throuwn off by a BS-er. Probably as much or more then I've learned from some of the "musical" threads that are so arcane or cryptic that beginners can't understand them.


Guest - you say :most of the truly knowledgeable people were fed up with the clubhouse and gossip atmosphere, and were already gone.

I think you are being unfair to a lot of the people who HAVE remained - as far as the depth of their knowledge (not me, but there are a lot of people here with enormous experience and knowledge)


I see primarily two types of fora on the web - there are those with very little traffic at all; and there are those that are more lively - though tending to be "off-topic". At least on those that are off topic there is usually someone to direct a questioner towards the information they seek.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 May 04 - 12:40 PM

It doesn't help when people don't have the guts to post with their name.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 04 - 11:02 AM

This isn't so different from other folk music forums online. Their heyday is long past. The different social groups have settled comfortably in to their own places (ie Mudcat, rec.music.folk, music mailing lists like Folk Alliance, etc). There just isn't the high level of discussion about music that took place online in the late 90s, when a lot of really knowledgeable people spent a lot of time online sharing what they know. And then there is the antagonism and hostility towards the academically trained people who once were all over in the folk music forums, by people who preferred to discuss farting, and other such drivel.

I agree that dividing Mudcat was a good move, it was just too little, WAY too late. By the time it was done, most of the truly knowledgeable people were fed up with the clubhouse and gossip atmosphere, and were already gone.

It isn't just Mudcat that has fallen victim to this syndrome though. All of the forums have their insider groups of old-timers, many of whom have used the net to connect with other people and make new friends. Which is fine, of course, if you want your online forums to be social clubs. Not so fine if you are looking to learn new things, and interact with people who are tops in the field, which is the way the folk music forums were in the late 90s, when lots of knowledgeable people were online, but hadn't yet been cyber-bludgeoned by the rude, the ill informed, and the racist and sexist assholes.

The decision was forcibly made here a long time ago that the social club would rule, hence it's demise as legitimate source of folk music information.

The search engine here sucks for anyone except those with the arcane knowledge of it.

Even if the search engine wasn't so bad, the music information from the forum is still inaccessible because it is so badly organized and cataloguing is a joke.

Initially Mudcat had great potential. It was squandered by a group of megalomaniac control freaks, who cared more about controlling what posters said about each other, and censoring information that offends them, than they did about the database resource.

There is occassionally some quality conversation taking place here, but it seems to only happen in the BS section nowadays, and even there it is pretty rare. I mean, take a look right now where all the clubhouse folk are gathered--the Mother of All BS thread & in every thread someone has to be last thread...the interesting threads are lucky to hit 50 posts.

There is a reason why all the new members are of the ilk we are seeing now. When we see new members, that is.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 17 May 04 - 10:09 PM

I agree with you, Art & bbc.

There seems to be little "new" that is of interest to me in the music threads. Today was the first day I actually clicked on one in a week, and it wasn't what I'd hoped it be. There are some threads that are interesting, but on subjects that I've said my piece on more than enough.

It is interesting when someone ressurects a thread that I started years ago, however.

Of course, maybe this thread should be listed as "BS" too.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: bbc
Date: 17 May 04 - 09:53 PM

Yes, Art. I, too, find less of interest to read, but the people contact still makes the site worthwhile! I would not have come to know you or gotten close to the Patons or Rick Fielding without Mudcat. I've discovered new music & countless new friends. I find that, although I might prefer not to, I'm willing to wade through a lot of merde for that! My thoughts have changed little in the past several years. I still find the Internet an amazing resource for connecting ideas & lives. I'd hate to be without it. I find that I read approximately the same number of threads in the so-called music & nonmusic sections of Mudcat--not too many, total--but I do like the division.

Nice to "see" you, Wolfgang. I find that many of the longtimers are still around, but only post to select threads.

best to you all,

bbc


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 17 May 04 - 07:52 PM

Wolfgang, thanks for the link; it was extremely interesting reading.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 May 04 - 12:16 PM

When the Music got separated from the B.S. it was a very good move. Some of us were so tired of wading through the merde to find the music stuff. I was about to leave too.

Now, for some reason, there are very few threads even in the music list that I want to participate in. The B.S. threads do have some thought provoking topics in these sad times we're in. Yesterday I went right to the B.S. threads for the first time ever. I'm not proud of that. But it IS the truth.-------- And I am posting less overall from lack of interest in current thread topics generally.--- It has become hard for me to, as Joe Campbell was fond of saying, "joyously participate in the sorrows of the world."   

To end on a positive note, at least I am still trying to see some good that might come from all the sad world events. I do feel that every coin has two sides.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 May 04 - 09:43 AM

Only my compassion with the faint-hearted has prevented my from following my initial impulse to resurrect that old thread. But perhaps next April?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 May 04 - 09:39 AM

The Mudcat is closing its doors

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 17 May 04 - 09:28 AM

basically that he was tired of it all and was shutting down the site.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 17 May 04 - 09:21 AM

So... for us not-so-oldtimers who hadn't yet found Mudcat in April '99, what was Max's April 1st post that so many have referred to above?


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: harpgirl
Date: 16 May 04 - 12:34 PM

rehash


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:34 PM

Hi Wolfgang, thanks for bringing this back. It IS quite amazing to see in which direction our opinions go over time. What a time capsule this site is.

Cheers

Rick


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 03:06 PM

ATTENTION. THIS IS AN OLD THREAD REFRESHED.

When MMario said I have been hearing the above since the day I started coming here in the 'Sincere plea to Mudcat Oldtimers' thread I thought I'd make the test and read an old thread about this theme.

I think he's right, but the interesting thing is the same old arguments don't always come from the same old people. It is fascinating for me to watch the small changes in position or argumentation over the years, at least in some people.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 10 May 99 - 07:28 PM

Fuel for the fire? Well, maybe… I thought perhaps those of you who have voted to continue the so-called "BS" threads might appreciate the following confirmation of Sue Trump's observation (found on one of her postcards in our files): "What is folkmusic but life itself seeking expression."

Many years ago, Caroline and I were visiting Malvina Reynolds and her husband in their home on Parker Street in Berkeley. We had just finished a pleasant dinner and were talking quietly about various subjects of interest to all of us, when Malvina announced that it was time for the evening news. Everything stopped, and we all sat together in front of the television until the newscast was over. There was no crisis pressing on the national consciousness, just a normal day of normal events, but these were grist for Malvina's songmaking mill, and she would not, could not, miss her daily dose of information.

I believe that discussions of current events, of history, of personal anxieties, etc., among members of this virtual community are important to many of us, and may well influence, in the long run, our musical endeavors. Others, it seems to me, can simply avoid the non-musical threads. What say ye all?

And a quick p.s. to Art: I certainly realize how the 'Cat could be of great importance to you. When I recognize its importance to me (and I am still free to move about the countryside seeking conversations) it becomes additionally clear to me how precious it must be to you. Here are people who share your love for the old traditional songs, and with whom you can share all sorts of thoughts and absurdities, as well as song texts and the like. Cherish the site!

Sandy


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 May 99 - 11:18 AM

Alas...joyous participation in the sorrows of the world.

Sandy, you know my situation here well. This wormhole into the folk world is a lifeline of sorts. I'm where you are on this. We value the old songs and the traditional folkie road that brought us from then to now. We also know the real value of community, of smalltalk, of humor and a good laugh. Again, please, everyone, go see __LIFE IS BEAUTIFUL__!!!

Art


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 May 99 - 10:39 AM

Apart from the obvious fact that Mudcatters have varied and uncompartmentalized lives, this all does raise the question of what role music plays in one's life. It seems to me that for some people music is the magnetic centre that orders most of the rest of what they do, and that includes conversation, community, and the rest. They are held together by music. Nothing can really be outside it. For others it is more of a subject, or something to listen to when you are tired, or an intellectual puzzle (How does Bach do that?). It is a space in your life, but not the ordering of all your space. It may be actually very important to you -- I had an uncle for whom Mozart was God, but I can't say that music was central to his life. It was a touchstone or a place he went to for solace or healing. But it wasn't what ordered his life, I think.
I think that for some people Music encompasses B.S., and for others it doesn't.
Yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: harpgirl
Date: 10 May 99 - 09:14 AM

Dear Bruce O.,
I too, have enjoyed your scholarship and I agree with you that weaving our way into the music on Mudcat is more difficult. I for one have tried to redirect my own focus to the music in more of my posts. If you initiated music discussions you might be more satisfied with the conversations...just a thought...harpgirl


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 May 99 - 01:59 PM

Think your right about the April fool's scare Barbara. A lot of folks removed their hearts from under their Mudcat T-shirts and placed them prominently on their sleeves. That can be a bit intimidating to some (me for one) and downright annoying for a very few. Once the old ticker is on display though, a lot of fine things start to happen. I've become less cynical in the last few weeks and I like the change. And I sure don't have any trouble finding the MUSIC.


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 08 May 99 - 11:59 AM

Bruce- COME BACK! PLEASE! WE NEED YOU!


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 May 99 - 11:46 AM

Gargoyle is that you???


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: bbc
Date: 08 May 99 - 07:31 AM

I'd like to say "Thank You" to Max for the scare he gave us on April 1st. I think, for many of us, it made us aware how much Mudcat has come to mean to us. Look at the tone of the postings since then. There has been an outpouring of love, support, & concern for each other--prayer & hugs intermixed w/ lyrics, midis, etc. We no longer think of ourselves as members of a blues/folk music bulletin board, but, increasingly, we describe ourselves as friends & a community. This is one of the best uses of the Internet--promoting the exchange of information & the building of worldwide community. I have met few of you in the flesh, so far, but I would do anything for you which I could. And I hope to meet & hug many, as time goes on! And now an ad for the website--to promote & maintain that sense of community, please access/join!

mudcat resources

my best to you all,

bbc (Barbara in NY)


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Banjer
Date: 08 May 99 - 05:17 AM

Hear, hear, Sandy....It has all pretty much been said, but as Sandy points out, the Mudcat does serve a purpose, fill a void if you will for many of us. Leej and Kat and many others have shown a need and a purpose for our cybervillage...Long live Mudcat!!


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 08 May 99 - 02:27 AM

I hope you reconsider, Bruce, because your scholarship has been very valuable to me, personally, and (I'm sure) to all of us. I'll still be able to reach you through that other listserve you led me to join (and to which I have yet to make a contribution, although I read it every day), but the rest of the concerned 'Catters will be deprived as a result of your departure. But you must admit that even that very academic listserve group enjoys some friendly banter now and then.

Still, I realize how important this community has become to me in the less that six months I've been here. Perhaps if I were surrounded in "real life" by good friends with whom I could discuss issues of great concern to me, and also share musical experiences and ideas, I would not find the Mudcat Cafe as essential to me as it is.

My wife, who is vision-impaired, gets most of her news from television, and a little from what I can read to her from daily papers and news magazines. When we got home from a lecture the other night, she immediately turned on either CNN, CNBC or MSNBC. I went upstairs and tuned into the Mudcat. She laughed and hollered up the stairs, "You're an addict!" I agreed, and replied, "So are you!"

That made me realize that I was actually lonely for the kind of chat I find here. I find that I also share much of what goes on here with Caroline. We live in a very conservative real-life community; I work at home and have almost no contact with others who live here. We smile and say hello to folks at the grocery store, but our social life is limited to our many folk music friends, and they are scattered around the country. Mudcat has filled a void in my life, and for that I am very grateful.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: bbelle
Date: 08 May 99 - 12:23 AM

I have grown weary and humorless reading threads where mature broad-minded individuals are defending themselves against a minority of narrow-minded oafs. Seriously, folks, my feeling is go to hell. Most anyone who visits Mudcat has an interest in folk/blues, but with most of us our music is closely entwined with our politics, social issues, interest in others. We want to know more about each other because most of us walk the fringes and it's reassuring to know others think as we do. For those of us who have been around for a couple of years, the threads have changed and it probably is no longer a site for the purist. So be it. If you don't like the threads, find another web site to exert your aggressions. Sometimes, I'm not interested in the subject matter or political/social rhetoric of a thread, but it certainly gives me food for thought. And I'm not fond of Celtic music, but respect the passion of those who are. If I don't want to go there, I DON'T HAVE TO! Bruce O. ... this isn't directed at you. I've enjoyed your comments and hope after a break you will return. Sometimes, I take a few days away from the Mudcat and am always glad to be back. I won't suggest we lighten up because Ferara said it very well a few weeks ago. If it doesn't assault my ethics or morals concerning humanity, I let it go. Earlier today I suggested ignoring the narrow-minded. When these threads show up, don't respond; they will diffuse themselves. I think the purpose of the nastiness is to cause unrest and arguing the point will serve no purpose. This is my last comment on this situation, for which, I'm sure, some of you are celebrating. If it continues, well, I guess, it continues … moonchild


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 99 - 11:25 PM

Beautifully said, Leej. Thank you. Your writing about your mom was esp. poignant for me, having just lost mine when you posted that. All of you helped me through that very difficult time. If this had been limited to only music discussion, whatever THAT is, I would be the worse for having missed the care, concern and comraderie of

The True Mudcateers!

Blessed Be to all,

kat


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 May 99 - 10:01 PM

If this forum had been dedicated to Folk and Blues only

1. We would never have glimpsed the soul of a man named Catspaw, and prayed for his recovery

2. In the very hard days after the Columbine High School shootings, I would have had few people who I could rant and rave at, and whose feelings mirrored my hopes and fears.

3.I would never have read "The Second Coming" by WB Yeats in its entirety, and really thought about it, as if for the first time.

4. I would have missed some of the most life-enhancing humor that I have ever read courtesy of Kat, Banjer, Frank, Art and so many others.

5.I would never have rooted for someone like Nightowl, living a life dedicated to care for others, to break through to his patients.

6. I might never have found the place where I could put into words the story of my Mom's last days.

But because this Forum is a free and open one, these things were possible. And because of comments and information from people like Rick F, and Wolf, Sandy and Joe, yes and Bruce O, I have taken my music back towards my roots. Sorry to see you go, Bruce. But thanks for teaching us so much about the origins of traditional music. Your scholarly presence will be missed.

LEJ


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 May 99 - 09:35 PM

Hi bbc. Sorry, gotta disagree with you. It takes very little bravery to shout the minority view anonymously and then disappear from a thread. Speaking of bravery, you've got a chunk of that in you, for what you've shared with us over the last few days. ( and remember, I disagreed with several of your points, so I'm not being a sycophant here) As far as starting a thread about what mudcatters want, well that doesn't take any boldness. I'll be happy to (if no one's done it already)


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Subject: RE: More Music Less BS!
From: bbc
Date: 07 May 99 - 08:57 PM

I've got to stop visiting Mudcat on my lunch hour. First, I heard about catspaw being in the hospital. Then, today, I read the "BS" thread. Both made me cry. As one who has started a few of the recent non-musical threads, I felt sensitive to the idea that I may have offended Mudcat members. My 1st reaction was that I would just stop posting altogether, at least for a time. Although I only count approximately 4 1/2 who spoke against BS (as opposed to approximately 40 in favor), it takes some bravery to voice the minority view. I am not a musician, at least not an instrumental/performing one. Perhaps, that's why the sense of community means more to me than to others. During the work week, I don't have time for friends in the flesh (I barely have time for my family!), but I take the time to visit Mudcat 1-3 times a day & I have come to care deeply for many of you. The idea that I should give up my cyber-community hurt me almost as much as April 1st did. On the other hand, I respect Wolfgang & gargoyle & I wonder how many others share their views. Perhaps, if someone feels bold enough to post yet one more non-musical thread, it would be worthwhile to take an anonymous poll--those who favor all-music vs. those who favor/can tolerate mixed threads. For the record, I liked the thoughts that kat, Banjer, & Big Mick expressed, as well as many others. I find a place for both forms of expression & pick & choose as I see fit.

best to you all,

bbc


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