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Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!

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FAIRYTALE OF NEW YORK


Related threads:
Fairytale of New York (21)
Fairytale of New York (57)
BBC3 The Fairytale of New York (11)
Lyr/Chords Req: Fairytale of New York (9)
Chord Req: Fairytale of New York (14)


Steve Shaw 18 Dec 07 - 06:05 AM
Mr Happy 18 Dec 07 - 06:14 AM
Mr Happy 18 Dec 07 - 06:21 AM
Emma B 18 Dec 07 - 06:22 AM
The PA 18 Dec 07 - 06:23 AM
Mark Dowding 18 Dec 07 - 06:38 AM
Emma B 18 Dec 07 - 06:58 AM
Folk Form # 1 18 Dec 07 - 07:01 AM
Folkiedave 18 Dec 07 - 07:04 AM
Liz the Squeak 18 Dec 07 - 07:08 AM
Emma B 18 Dec 07 - 07:14 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Dec 07 - 07:24 AM
theleveller 18 Dec 07 - 07:28 AM
John MacKenzie 18 Dec 07 - 08:16 AM
Shaneo 18 Dec 07 - 08:36 AM
GUEST,sparticus 18 Dec 07 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,Ruth at work 18 Dec 07 - 09:06 AM
Liz the Squeak 18 Dec 07 - 09:10 AM
John MacKenzie 18 Dec 07 - 09:20 AM
The Borchester Echo 18 Dec 07 - 09:29 AM
Liz the Squeak 18 Dec 07 - 09:33 AM
John MacKenzie 18 Dec 07 - 10:13 AM
GUEST 18 Dec 07 - 10:16 AM
Liz the Squeak 18 Dec 07 - 10:21 AM
GUEST,everyone loves christmas 18 Dec 07 - 10:46 AM
Emma B 18 Dec 07 - 10:57 AM
Brakn 18 Dec 07 - 11:08 AM
Mr Happy 18 Dec 07 - 11:14 AM
GUEST,Ruth still at work 18 Dec 07 - 11:14 AM
GUEST,harrys girls 18 Dec 07 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,me again 18 Dec 07 - 11:31 AM
Rog Peek 18 Dec 07 - 12:02 PM
gnomad 18 Dec 07 - 12:20 PM
Jim Lad 18 Dec 07 - 12:24 PM
The Borchester Echo 18 Dec 07 - 12:25 PM
Folkiedave 18 Dec 07 - 12:40 PM
GUEST 18 Dec 07 - 12:47 PM
Jim Lad 18 Dec 07 - 02:09 PM
Geoff Wallis 18 Dec 07 - 02:20 PM
Backwoodsman 18 Dec 07 - 02:31 PM
MuddleC 18 Dec 07 - 02:38 PM
skarpi 18 Dec 07 - 02:47 PM
jacqui.c 18 Dec 07 - 02:49 PM
s&r 18 Dec 07 - 03:33 PM
Tootler 18 Dec 07 - 05:13 PM
CET 18 Dec 07 - 05:52 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Dec 07 - 08:49 PM
Jim Lad 19 Dec 07 - 03:35 AM
GUEST,Wayne 19 Dec 07 - 06:08 AM
Hawker 19 Dec 07 - 07:08 AM
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Subject: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 06:05 AM

I hear that the BBC is going to bleep out the word "faggot" from the song so as not to offend the gay community.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 06:14 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7149525.stm


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 06:21 AM

They won't need to censor McGowan though, his diction says it all - not!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NrAwK9juhhY


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 06:22 AM

Seems it just applies to Radio 1 - 'a station by station decision'

'But the ban does not apply across the BBC. Radio 2 said it would be playing the full version of the track.'

BBC News 24


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: The PA
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 06:23 AM

I cant imagine the usual Radio 1 audience being the slightest bit interested in this at all. The word 'fagot' is quite polite in comparison to some of the expressions I've heard. Our son is 17 and has never head of the expression. Radio 2 are continuing to play the unedited version.

Another example of the world going mad I'm afraid. Schools not allowed to perform the traditional nativity play, changing the name of Christmas to Winterfest for fear of offending someone somewhere to name but two.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 06:38 AM

I'm sure the word "f**k" which seems to be common place across the airwaves these days causes more offence.

Cheers
Mark


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 06:58 AM

Radio 1 attempts to be a 'youth' station; the official title for the station's anniversary celebrations, "Established 1967", doesn't even mention the actual age the station is going to be!

Like PA I can't imagine that the bulk of its target audience are even familiar with the term, which is essentially a North American (or Australian?) derogatory word leading to a lot of suprised looks in the US to 'I'm going to try and find some fags' when needing a cigarette :)

alternatively I'm very fond of them with onion gravy :)


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:01 AM

"They won't need to censor McGowan though, his diction says it all - not!"

I've heard that McGowan is one his best generations lyric writers. After listening to the Pogues albums, I couldn't possibly say.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:04 AM

Crazy decision.

Dave


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:08 AM

So, the drug references can stay (you're a bum, you're a punk, you're an old slut on junk), but the 'cheap lousy faggot' has to be blanked... says it all really. For the BBC, drugs are acceptable, being gay isn't.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:14 AM

The BBC Radio 1 message board must be in melt-down!

Trying to access the question on the home page 'Is the BBC right to edit lyrics?' just gets a webpage unobtainable message!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:24 AM

From a BBC website poll:
Should radio stations censor The Pogues' Fairytale of New York?
Yes
3.74%
No
96.26%


No point in getting worked up about it. I think this is pretty obviously a publicity stunt by BBC 1, to remind people it exists.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:28 AM

Why don't they play Bottle of Smoke instead?


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 08:16 AM

Isn't the word Mick used in this song as a generic description for an Irishman?
In my mind this is even more insulting than the word that is being blanked out.
I suspect that there may be more homosexuals than Irishmen working at the BBC.
With apologies to Terry Wogan [Sir]
Giok


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Subject: Lyr Add: BOYS FROM THE COUNTY HELL (The Pogues)
From: Shaneo
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 08:36 AM

If the really wanted to stir it up, they could play ''The Boys From The County Hell'', mighty song' Fairytale hasn't got a patch on this one.

On the first day of March it was raining
It was raining worse than anything that I have ever seen
I drank ten pints of beer and I cursed all the people there
And I wish that all this raining would stop falling down on me

And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink
And mother wake me early in the morning

At the time I was working for a landlord
And he was the meanest bastard that you have ever seen
And to lose a single penny would grieve him awful sore
And he was a miserable bollocks and a bitch's bastard's whore

And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink
And mother wake me early in the morning

I recall we took care of him one sunday
We got him out the back and we broke his fucking balls
And maybe that was dreaming and maybe that was real
But all I know is I left that place without a penny or fuck all

And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink
And mother wake me early in the morning

But now I've the most charming of verandahs
I sit and watch the junkies, the drunks, the pimps, the whores
Five green bottles sitting on the floor
I wish to christ, I wish to christ
That I had fifteen more

And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink
And mother wake me early in the morning

And it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink
And mother wake me early in the morning

The boys and me are drunk and looking for you
We'll eat your frigging entrails and we won't give a damn
Me daddy was a blue shirt and my mother a madam
And my brother earned his medals at mai lei in vietnam

And it's lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink
And mother wake me early in the morning

On the first day of march it was raining
It was raining worse than anything that I have ever seen
Stay on the other side of the road
'cause you can never tell
We've a thirst like a gang of devils
We're the boys of the county hell


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 08:44 AM

I wish they would leave it off the playlist altogether, along with Slade and Roy Wood and all the rest that they pull out every year at Christmas!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,Ruth at work
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 09:06 AM

"Isn't the word Mick used in this song as a generic description for an Irishman?"

I don't think so...


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Subject: Lyr Add: FAIRYTALE OF NEW YORK (The Pogues)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 09:10 AM

As far as I can see, there is no 'Mick' in the song... see?

It was Christmas Eve babe
In the drunk tank
An old man said to me, won't see another one
And then he sang a song
The Rare Old Mountain Dew
I turned my face away
And dreamed about you

Got on a lucky one
Came in eighteen to one
I've got a feeling
This year's for me and you
So happy Christmas
I love you baby
I can see a better time
When all our dreams come true

They've got cars big as bars
They've got rivers of gold
But the wind goes right through you
It's no place for the old
When you first took my hand
On a cold Christmas Eve
You promised me
Broadway was waiting for me

You were handsome
You were pretty
Queen of New York City
When the band finished playing
They howled out for more
Sinatra was swinging,
All the drunks they were singing
We kissed on a corner
Then danced through the night

The boys of the NYPD choir
Were singing "Galway Bay"
And the bells were ringing out
For Christmas day

You're a bum
You're a punk
You're an old slut on junk
Lying there almost dead on a drip in that bed
You scumbag, you maggot
You cheap lousy faggot
Happy Christmas your arse
I pray God it's our last

I could have been someone
Well so could anyone
You took my dreams from me
When I first found you
I kept them with me babe
I put them with my own
Can't make it all alone
I've built my dreams around you


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
copyright 1988 Shane MacGowan & Jem Finer

LTS


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 09:20 AM

Well I heard it used in the fashion I described in some song of that ilk.
I am just a confused old man, so can't remember which one. However my point is still valid, the deletion is selective. Especially when the word arse follows soon after the faggot one.
It seems that some PC is more important than other PCs.
G


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 09:29 AM

I wish they would leave it off the playlist altogether, along with Slade and Roy Wood and all the rest that they pull out every year at Christmas

And every year you always get someone who, never having actually listened to it, hasn't a clue what it's about.

Thanks to LTS for reproducing it (yet again). FTONY describes exactly what happened to the hopes and dreams of Irish (and other) immigrants to the 'land of the free'. It needs to be compulsory listening for all, especially the punks, bums and sluts on junk who walk around in suits at the BBC.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 09:33 AM

Goik (or should that be 'Jock'?!), I think it's time you had a lie down and took your tablets again...

But you're right, selective deletion is not good.. it should be all or nothing and if you're giving the message that drug taking is OK but being a faggot isn't then it's a bad message.

Besides, what's wrong with being a small bundle of firewood anyway?

LTS


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 10:13 AM

Or a Savoury Duck come to that.

G.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 10:16 AM

I read somewhere recently (Radio Times?) that when the song was done live on TOTP, they made Kirsty MacColl sing "ass" instead of "arse". Why this should be considered less offensive, I really can't imagine. And anyway, as with the above examples) the whole point about that verse is that it's supposed to be insulting, and if you remove any offensive terms it kind of misses the point.

I suppose it could be argued that when they censor "faggot", what they're objecting to is its use as a term of abuse - after all, the n-word is banned not because it's not OK to be black, but because it's not OK to make skin colour the focus of an insult.

But I wouldn't be convinced that this is the reason.

Marje


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 10:21 AM

Almost any word or name can be used as a term of abuse... the words 'bless you' when said with the right inflection (Whoopi Goldberg in 'Sister Act' for instance) can mean exactly the opposite.

I know that we're supposed to live and learn, and that what was acceptable in the past might not be so now, but in this day and age, is it really necessary to censor so much? If they MUST censor, I'd favour more the removal of the drug references than the use of 'faggot', which is less well known. Heaven forefend that a child should look it up in a dictionary.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,everyone loves christmas
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 10:46 AM

god people - talk about PC overload, only last week I was reading about a 70 something grandad being fired as Santa for saying "Ho Ho Ho" - what the hekk is wrong with people today!!! Definition of PC - sad old grumpy idiots who have way too much time on their hands...why not ban the word Fairy from the title, I mean HOW OFFENSIVE!!!!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 10:57 AM

Well good old fair-minded Auntie Beeb at Radio 1 apparently edited out 'slut' too.

Was it the comedy programme 'I'm sorry I haven't a clue' that took totally innocuous songs and, by introducing well timed 'bleeps', created something quite hilariously different


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Brakn
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:08 AM

Radio 1 is probably the one station I will not listen to and I don't think I know anyone who does. It lost it's main audience years ago. The djs are in love with themselves and not the music.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:14 AM

It was Non-Denominational Winter Holiday Eve infant
In the inebriated container
A mature person said to me, won't see another one
And then he sang a song
The Uncommon Not getting any younger Peak Dew
I turned my countenance away
And dreamed about you


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,Ruth still at work
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:14 AM

If they're gonna get tetchy, surely it's the NYPD choir which ought to be edited out, as there's no such thing.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,harrys girls
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:27 AM

I reckon the song should be called the Beep of Beep Beep because I have made a point of editing out all insults in the name of political correctness and it now goes like this...



It was BEEPmas Eve BEEP
In the BEEP tank
A BEEP BEEP said to me, won't see another one
And then he BEEPED a BEEP
The BEEP Old Mountain Dew
I turned my face a BEEP

And BEEPed about BEEP

BEEP I'm on a lucky one
Came in eighteen to one
I've got a BEEPing

This year's for me and you
So happy BEEP BEEP
I BEEP you BEEPby
I can see a better time
When all our BEEPs come true

They've got cars big as BEEPs
They've got rivers of BEEP
But the wind goes right through you
It's no place for the BEEP

When you first took my BEEP

On a cold BEEPmas Eve
You promised me
Broadway was waiting for me

You were BEEPsome
You were BEEPy
BEEP of New York City
When the band finished playing
They BEEPED up the mall

Sinatra was BEEPing,
All the BEEPs they were BEEPing
We BEEPed on a corner
Then BEEPed through the night

The boys of the NYPD choir
Were singing "Galway Bay"
And the bells were ringing out
For BEEPmas day

You're a BEEP
You're a BEEP
You're an old BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP
BEEPing there almost BEEP on a BEEP in that BEEP
You BEEP BEEP, you BEEP BEEP
You BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP
Happy BEEPmas your BEEP
I pray BEEP it's our last

I could have been someone
Well so could anyone
You took my dreams from me
When I first found you
I kept them with me BEEP

I put them with my own
Can't make it all alone
I've built my dreams around you


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,me again
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:31 AM

Mr Happy - you are a scream, I love it, send that to Radio 1 - PLEASE!!!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Rog Peek
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:02 PM

Can't see what the BBC has against faggots, they're delicios!

Ingredients for faggots

pigs liver 450 gm
onions 2 pc
breadcrumbs 100 gm
suet 75 gm
chopped sage 2 tsp
salt   sq
pepper   sq

How to make faggots

Mince the liver and onions into a mixing bowl, this can be as fine or as coarse to suit your own tastes
Add the breadcrumbs, chopped suet, sage and season with the salt and pepper (it should be quite peppery)
Shape the mixture into small balls, if the mixture is too wet more breadcrumbs should be added
Place onto a greased oven tin and bake in moderate oven for about 30 minutes
Remove faggots and add boiling water and a little flour to the tin to make gravy.

Rog


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: gnomad
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:20 PM

Radio 4 have just reported that radio 1 have just reversed their decision.

I am not fond of this record (prefer other versions) but I approve the reversal.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:24 PM

I thought it was a gay song with that whole "Queen of New York" thing going on but I can't see anything wrong with calling someone a bundle of sticks!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:25 PM

Yes, Andy Parfitt having listened to the track has decided it's not homophobic after all. Which it isn't.
Is there another version of FTONY?
Could anyone other than MacGowan/MacColl do it?


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:40 PM

Errrr...Christy Moore has recorded it. (On the CD Live at the Point).

I didn't have the Pogue's version anyway.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:47 PM

According to Wikipedia, Cait O'Riordan was originally intended to sing the female part but left the Pogues before the song was completed. I could imagine her doing a good job.

How about Cliff Richard/Kate Rusby?


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 02:09 PM

I was thinking more..... Elton John!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 02:20 PM

There are numerous cover versions, several of which involve self-censorship by the musicians concerned.

There are two plausible candidates for the worst version.

1) The blessed St Ronan of Keating's offering changed 'cheap lousy faggot' to 'you're cheap and you're haggard' and his accomplice in the crime was Máire (aka Moya) Brennan of Clannad. It sold like lead courgettes.

2) The Irish Tenors' rendition omitted the crucial verse concerned, all in the interest of maintaining the trio's clean-living, chicken-in-a-basket and send-them-home-to-their-mums-in-clean-underwear audience.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 02:31 PM

I'd be happy if they banned it altogether. The worst record ever made. In my humble opinion.   :-)


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: MuddleC
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 02:38 PM

I think that the final word must rest with the Catholic Church..
and their Craggy Island spokesman,err, spokespriest?
'Father Jack, what do you think about dis sorta ting?'
>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Arse!...Feck!...Gurls!...Drink!"


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: skarpi
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 02:47 PM

beeb,beeb,beeb,beeb,beeb.

beeb,beeb,beeb,

beeb

beeb, beeb ,beebed,beed,beebeds.

beeb, beeb ,


.beeb.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 02:49 PM

I love the song but, having heard it done by a couple of other performers must say that the only version I like is the Pogues and Kirsty.

Terrific tune, whatever the words.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: s&r
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 03:33 PM

They've withdrawn the censorship on the grounds that the audience have sufficient wisdom to realise that the words will not cause offence in context... or something like that.

Stu


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:13 PM

They've withdrawn the censorship on the grounds that the audience have sufficient wisdom to realise that the words will not cause offence in context... or something like that.

Or:

They've demonstrated that they are a bunch of complete pillocks and are trying to save face.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: CET
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:52 PM

Something my cat coughed up on the rug could sing it better than Shane McGowan. I listened to a few seconds of the You Tube video, and was beginning to feel ill and had to turn it off so I never got to hear Kirsty MacColl. Great song, though.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 08:49 PM

I like Shane's songs. They seem to me, very poetic.

I remember years ago Karl Dallas wondering in print in the Melody Maker, why the Irish were so keen to embrace the national stereotypes in folksong; at the very time the American black people were turning their backs on blues songs, with their crude racial stereotypes.

Either way, you could pick a hole in Bottle of Smoke or Fairytale of New York - every line of them - for just those faults. Surely you accept it, in its totality, or not at all.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 03:35 AM

I actually like Kristy Moore's rendition of the song.
The man has talent and the song is relevant to my younger years in Australia & Canada.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 06:08 AM

For me, Shane MacGowan's voice may be ragged & harsh but it is also soulful and heartfelt. His version of She Moved Through The Fair is by far my favourite. Fairytale has become a bit of a Christmas cliche but it remains a superlative song. Indeed, I reckon that Shane is one of the best songwriters of the last thirty years. But then, I like Gilbert O'Sullivan so what do I know?


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Hawker
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 07:08 AM

Now then, this has got me worried! every year on New Years eve, in our household, we burn the ashen Faggot!
Oh F*!K are we going to be raided by the PC police for this? One year we piped the faggot in and the vicar blessed it before we burned it!
I'm going straight to hell methinks!
Please somebody get a grip!
Stop the world I want to get off!


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Mudcat time: 23 July 8:08 AM EDT

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