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Origins: Songs about women killing men

sbg2d 10 Dec 07 - 09:37 PM
C. Ham 10 Dec 07 - 09:38 PM
GUEST,Les B. 10 Dec 07 - 09:39 PM
Rabbi-Sol 10 Dec 07 - 09:40 PM
GUEST,Les B. 10 Dec 07 - 09:40 PM
Kent Davis 10 Dec 07 - 10:16 PM
Phil Cooper 10 Dec 07 - 10:31 PM
Cap't Bob 10 Dec 07 - 10:48 PM
GUEST,Volgadon 10 Dec 07 - 11:08 PM
GUEST,Gerry 10 Dec 07 - 11:34 PM
harpmolly 11 Dec 07 - 12:00 AM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Dec 07 - 01:53 AM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Dec 07 - 02:02 AM
BK Lick 11 Dec 07 - 02:22 AM
GUEST,DWR 11 Dec 07 - 02:31 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Dec 07 - 05:40 AM
Grab 11 Dec 07 - 05:51 AM
GUEST,PMB 11 Dec 07 - 06:49 AM
oldhippie 11 Dec 07 - 07:23 AM
Newport Boy 11 Dec 07 - 07:25 AM
maeve 11 Dec 07 - 07:31 AM
GUEST,Darowyn 11 Dec 07 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,PMB 11 Dec 07 - 08:19 AM
theleveller 11 Dec 07 - 08:38 AM
Newport Boy 11 Dec 07 - 08:43 AM
Jim Dixon 11 Dec 07 - 09:01 AM
Rapparee 11 Dec 07 - 09:14 AM
greg stephens 11 Dec 07 - 09:32 AM
cptsnapper 11 Dec 07 - 09:50 AM
Beer 11 Dec 07 - 09:52 AM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 07 - 12:45 PM
Jim Carroll 11 Dec 07 - 02:12 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 11 Dec 07 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,leeneia 11 Dec 07 - 03:40 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 07 - 04:05 PM
Herga Kitty 11 Dec 07 - 04:09 PM
Herga Kitty 11 Dec 07 - 04:29 PM
GUEST,Flatpick 11 Dec 07 - 04:59 PM
Doc John 11 Dec 07 - 05:00 PM
Melissa 11 Dec 07 - 05:05 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 07 - 05:11 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 11 Dec 07 - 07:05 PM
Joe_F 11 Dec 07 - 09:13 PM
Beer 11 Dec 07 - 09:18 PM
Beer 11 Dec 07 - 09:46 PM
Bonecruncher 11 Dec 07 - 11:37 PM
Grab 12 Dec 07 - 06:16 AM
Jim Carroll 12 Dec 07 - 08:12 AM
Bert 12 Dec 07 - 06:55 PM
Jack Campin 12 Dec 07 - 07:43 PM
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Subject: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: sbg2d
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 09:37 PM

There are plenty of songs about men killing women can anyone suggest one about a woman killing a man?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: C. Ham
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 09:38 PM

Frankie & Johnnie (aka Frankie & Albert)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 09:39 PM

Frankie & Johnny


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 09:40 PM

"Caleb" as done by Red Molly

                                    SOL


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 09:40 PM

I think also an old song called Frankie Silver ?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Kent Davis
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 10:16 PM

The Six King's Daughters (Child # 4), Johnny Randal (Child #12), and Young Heneree (Child # 68) come to mind. They are all found in FOLK SONGS OF THE WEST VIRGINIA HILLS by Patrick W. Gainer.

Kent


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 10:31 PM

Lord Thomas & Lady Margaret; Young Hunting; Earl Richard (both the other two are variants of Young Henree, mentioned by Kent Davis). Lord Gregory's Mother is also not a sterling character. Lord Abor & Mary Flynn, again, mom's not so great. There's also Dave Carter's song "Bonnie Brown." There's more.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 10:48 PM

The Great Silkie of Sule Skerry

Cap't Bob


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 11:08 PM

The Outlandish Knight.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 11:34 PM

Step It Out Nancy


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: harpmolly
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 12:00 AM

Volgadon...you beat me to it! "Lie there, lie there you false young man..."

I don't know if this counts, but what about Drowned Lovers? The mother curses her son and causes him to drown, even though she doesn't kill him with her own hands. Creepy.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 01:53 AM

That song with the chorus

Roll on, roll on Monongehela [sp]
down to the Ohio
past Aliquippa on to the Mississippa
way out to the Gulf of Mexico.

(You sing it more for the sound of it than the plot.)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 02:02 AM

That deathless ditty I just mentioned is in the DT. Look for Monongahela Sal.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: BK Lick
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 02:22 AM

Well, in Eggs and Marrow Bones she gives it a good try anyway.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,DWR
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 02:31 AM

A couple that haven't been mentioned, though they are relatives of ones that have, are Henry Lee and The Willow Tree or The Lonely Willow Tree.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:40 AM

Miss Otis Regrets.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Grab
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:51 AM

Lord Randal/Randall is poisoned by his lover.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 06:49 AM

She has taken a brace of pistols
And she has shot her false willie-o.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: oldhippie
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 07:23 AM

I like Holly Near's rendition of "Step It Out Nancy".



Wasn't there a song "Another Man Done Gone"?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Newport Boy
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 07:25 AM

"She has taken a brace of pistols
And she has shot her false willie-o."

That's just a serious injury!! "...shot her false Willie-O" is nearer.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: maeve
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 07:31 AM

"The Great Silkie of Sule Skerry

Cap't Bob"
*********
Sorry, Cap't Bob, I don't understand the inclusion of this one. The lady's husband kills the Great Silkie and his son. Do you have a different version?

Thanks,

maeve


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,Darowyn
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 08:09 AM

Rikititikititin!
A song about Lizzie Borden- pretty indiscriminating as to the gender of her victims.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 08:19 AM

Then there's that song about the servant girl who sees off numbers of would be assailants "with her box on her head"... Staffordshire Maid?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 08:38 AM

"And she has shot her false willie"??????????

No, I won't go there.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Newport Boy
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 08:43 AM

Did that one an hour ago - Yawn!

Phil


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:01 AM

There's Bessie Smith's SEND ME TO THE 'LECTRIC CHAIR, which has been posted several times at Mudcat: 1, 2, 3, 4.

The genders can be easily switched, though--see David Bromberg's version.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:14 AM

Barbara Allen
The Maid of Fife-e-o
Nancy Whisky


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:32 AM

While Betty didn't exactly kill Dupree(Betty and Dupree Blues, or Dupree Blues), she caused his death indirectly.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: cptsnapper
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:50 AM

That's The Way The Girls Are From Texas


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Beer
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:52 AM

Dixie Chick: "Goodbye Earl"

Beer (adrien)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 12:45 PM

Most of the time in the songs the blokes who get killed have rather asked for it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 02:12 PM

There is a wonderful poem by Thomas Hardy about a woman whose husband who comes home drunk each night and beats her, is sewn up into a blanket so he starves to death.
I believe Mike Waterson made a song based on it.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 03:25 PM

Fanny Blair - not a woman but an 11-year girl who kills a man with a lie. The song is absolutely chilling.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 03:40 PM

There is no evidence that Barbara Allen or Lord Randall's unnamed lover killed anyone. The songs are just laying a guilt trip on a woman who didn't knuckle under a suitor just because he fancied her.

Life expectancy was much shorter in earlier centuries, and the reason is obvious. People, especially men, died of love all too easily.

Sweet Willie and Lady Margot comes to mind.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:05 PM

I don't think he actually starved to death, J C. As I recall it, he just got hungry and beaten, and learned the error of his ways.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:09 PM

Sarah Gray / Sally Gray who shot young William Taylor.

The banks of the Sweet Dundee (her pistol drew and her uncle slew)

The Outlandish Knight

Lie there, lie there, thou false hearted knight
Lie there and drown – Said she
Six pretty maids has thou drowned here
And the seventh drowned thee!

And of course, Lord Randall and all its variants

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:29 PM

And indirectly, Lady Erskine in Child Owlet

My own sporting Jenny who filled the pistols up with water before sending for Captain Farrell to be ready for the slaughter.

The woman who lay naked on the road to entrap Young Johnson, who was attacked and killed when he stopped to help her.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: GUEST,Flatpick
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:59 PM

'Caleb Mayer' by Gillian Welch


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Doc John
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:00 PM

The Three Butchers, Banks of Sweet Dundee

Doc John


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Melissa
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:05 PM

I guess I always thought 'little girl' was up to murderous ructions "In The Pines"?


"Long Black Veil"...Indirect, but she sure played a part in the guy being hanged.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:11 PM

Ah, but he got away from Captain Farrell, in spite of that business with the pistols, Kitty, so sporting Jenny's little trick didn't work out, and he didn't actually get killed.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 07:05 PM

Lucky for the guy in Sovay Sovay that he didn't give her that ring or he'd be another statistic on here.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Joe_F
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:13 PM

Queen Eleanor's Confession (Child 156)

Ballads in which a woman indirectly causes a man's death include McPherson's Lament (throws a blanket over him) & Child Owlet (frames him for attempted rape).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Beer
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:18 PM

Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts by Bob Dylan


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Beer
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:46 PM

Never heard that song (Fanny Blair) before Bonnie. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 11:37 PM

Guest Leenia
Life expectancy in earlier centuries was NOT neccessarily shorter. In my own family history, as well as the histories I have done for others, Many persons died in their sveties or eighties.
It is true that many people died young, usually from the childhood diseases such as measles, whooping cough, mumps and chicken pox. Influenza was also a big killer.
Consequently, although the AVERAGE age of death appears lower, most people saw out their allotted three score and ten years.
Colyn.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Grab
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 06:16 AM

There is no evidence that Barbara Allen or Lord Randall's unnamed lover killed anyone.

Barbara Allen, sure. But all three versions of Lord Randall in DT are pretty clear on him being murdered by poison (by his lover in 1 and 3, stepmother in 2).

http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=3723
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=9882
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=9883

Colyn, as regards "seeing out their 3-score-and-10", in pre-medical times if you'd made it to 40 then odds were fairly good that you'd make old bones. The majority didn't reach 40 though. The stats make this pretty clear, when 10 children was the norm and the average survival rate to reproduction was only a little over 2. Also, those reaching 40 were usually richer; all manual occupations were significantly dangerous, as was warfare (a major source of male mortality for most of history).

Graham.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 08:12 AM

'I don't think he actually starved to death, J C. As I recall it, he just got hungry and beaten, and learned the error of his ways.'
Whoops - sorry, you're right
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Bert
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 06:55 PM

Stone Cold Dead in The Market


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Subject: RE: Origins: Songs about women killing men
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 07:43 PM

Clerk Colven/Colvill (she gives him the world's fastest-acting venereal infection).

The Cruel Mother

The Laird o Wariston

any number of mostly-forgotten execution broadsides (I rather like the ghoulish ones about Mary McKinnon, the prostitute hanged for a fatal stabbing in Edinburgh in 1839)

The Black Freighter (from The Threepenny Opera)

Puccini's Turandot (and probably quite a lot of other operas)

There must be some great Indian songs about Phoolan Devi.


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