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Davey Graham: what a waste

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Art Thieme 02 Nov 07 - 02:25 AM
GUEST,John 02 Nov 07 - 04:35 AM
cptsnapper 02 Nov 07 - 06:14 AM
GUEST,Charley O'Neill 02 Nov 07 - 06:53 AM
GUEST, Sminky 02 Nov 07 - 07:08 AM
The Sandman 02 Nov 07 - 09:01 AM
GUEST, Sminky 02 Nov 07 - 09:53 AM
balladeer 02 Nov 07 - 10:34 AM
The Sandman 02 Nov 07 - 11:30 AM
Lowden Jameswright 02 Nov 07 - 12:17 PM
GUEST, Sminky 02 Nov 07 - 12:31 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Nov 07 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,W 02 Nov 07 - 07:41 PM
GUEST,chazz 02 Nov 07 - 08:22 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Nov 07 - 08:24 PM
GUEST,chazz 02 Nov 07 - 08:27 PM
Peace 02 Nov 07 - 08:37 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Nov 07 - 08:53 PM
GUEST,chazz 02 Nov 07 - 09:11 PM
Richard Bridge 02 Nov 07 - 09:59 PM
breezy 03 Nov 07 - 04:19 AM
Jim Lad 03 Nov 07 - 04:52 AM
Peace 03 Nov 07 - 05:00 AM
GUEST,van 03 Nov 07 - 05:06 AM
The Sandman 03 Nov 07 - 05:25 AM
Jim Lad 03 Nov 07 - 05:29 AM
Peace 03 Nov 07 - 05:33 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Nov 07 - 06:43 AM
Richard Bridge 03 Nov 07 - 06:52 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Nov 07 - 07:00 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Nov 07 - 07:03 AM
Richard Bridge 03 Nov 07 - 11:32 AM
GUEST,steve 03 Nov 07 - 12:25 PM
Jeri 03 Nov 07 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 03 Nov 07 - 02:25 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Nov 07 - 02:33 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Nov 07 - 02:37 PM
balladeer 03 Nov 07 - 04:14 PM
Peace 03 Nov 07 - 04:15 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 03 Nov 07 - 05:11 PM
GUEST,punkfokrocker 04 Nov 07 - 12:59 AM
Dave'sWife 04 Nov 07 - 05:49 AM
GUEST 04 Nov 07 - 07:39 AM
Richard Bridge 04 Nov 07 - 07:45 AM
GUEST,Mark Pavey 04 Nov 07 - 09:33 AM
GUEST,Ian cookieless 04 Nov 07 - 11:27 AM
Jim Lad 04 Nov 07 - 11:43 AM
The Sandman 04 Nov 07 - 12:25 PM
Richard Bridge 04 Nov 07 - 12:42 PM
Peace 04 Nov 07 - 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 02:25 AM

I didn't mean to infer that Davey might have MS; only that alcoholism is an actual disease too.

But I DO have MS! And to finally know why I had to secretly wear adult diapers for 10 years, 20 years now, while being misdiagnosed all that time (to the tune of 4 spinal surgeries for the same damn symptoms), well, I must tell you, it was positively LIBERATING to finally KNOW what the hell was wrong with me. The symptom of blindness could reverse itself. MS is a strange x^z%&*#@%/"$$ disease---with an accent on the $$ signs to highlight the fear of losing income/gigs if you quit playing. That anxiety is enough to make one drink to excess--and to think about looking for ways out.---I hope sincerely the neuro-blindness does reverse. It often can do that.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,John
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 04:35 AM

For anyonewho hasn't seen the tour, there's a clip at youtube:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cBYBKuAo7aI


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: cptsnapper
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:14 AM

I wonder if we, both as artists & audience, create a hurdle for performers by associating genius with complexity so that sometimes people feel that by playing in an apparently simple manner we display a lack of worthwhile talent & thus putting pressure on people to keep pushing at the boundaries at every possible moment. I'm not sure who it was - it might have been Al Cooper - but I remember an instance of someone having been dismissive of Pop Staples' guitar style but who later on said that they hadn't realised how hard it can be to play simply. There are people who have amazing technique but who leave me cold but others who by doing less involve me. But it depends on the player & the material chosen. And of course it's all subjective!


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Charley O'Neill
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 06:53 AM

I saw Davey at the Mossley Festival in the summer, then on tour in Leeds and then at the Lowry. I listen to his old albums all the time and would be a fool to suggest that is performance now can in any favourable way be compared to those classic recordings. However, the man seems in my humble opinion to have to some degree steadily improved over these gigs. Has nobody considered that getting out and playing may be providing meaningfull activity for the guy and thus actually may be a positive experience for him ? Maybe I am naive (though this is not generally a quality attributed to me), but I have read Mark Pavey's words on the website and did not get the impression that he was in any way , the villain of the peace. Was he not initially a fan, then a friend of Davey who is simply trying to help his mate rediscover what he did best and consequently live his life in a more fullfilling manner ? Should Pavey not perhaps be applauded, as opposed to derided ? Could his actions be nothing more or less than alturistic ?

Has anyone heard 'Broken Biscuits' , Davey's new album produced by Pavey ? It is no 'Folk Blues & Beyond', but I don't find it too bad at all ! It is a grower, yep , a little clumsy and wonderfully eclectic as ever Davey was. Give these men a chance!!!


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:08 AM

Maybe I am naive

You are either naive or Mark Pavey.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:01 AM

I agree with Charley O Neill.
I thought the video clip of Davys playing, while not brilliant ,was of a good standard.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:53 AM

Cap'n - the video was taken on the first gig of his tour. I suggest you read the comments on the same youtube page, plus those above. Still think he has 'steadily improved over these gigs'?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: balladeer
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:34 AM

I haven't read this whole thread. Has anyone mentioned that Davy Graham, a man who has pretty much spent his whole life playing music, may still be gigging because he needs the money to live on?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 11:30 AM

Sminky.I have read those comments.
I always make up my mind on what my own ears and eyes tell me,the playing on that clip was of a good standard.
One of those comments is typically stupid,calling him an alcoholic ,because he drank his pint of beer in four gulps.
BSubject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: balladeer - PM
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 10:34 AM

I haven't read this whole thread. Has anyone mentioned that Davy Graham, a man who has pretty much spent his whole life playing music, may still be gigging because he needs the money to live on .
Balladeer,makes a good point.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:17 PM

The standard of playing on that clip is NOT of a good standard - and I can well understand people complaining at paying £17 at a high profile venue to witness it. This is not what fans of Davey Graham expect to see. If you expect people to turn up in significant numbers and pay that kind of money, you are duty bound to ensure you give a professional performance.

I've seen excellent guitar players give similar performances, but they were playing in the local folk club for no money, and by the end of the evening it's no surprise they are under-performing after a few pints. I accept Davey may need the cash, but this is taking money under false pretences. It's very sad, but it's sad too that folks are sometimes travelling many miles to see him, only to return home feeling angry and badly let down.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:31 PM

Cap'n - it would be a rash man indeed who concluded that all was well with DG on the basis of that clip.

As for him needing the money - if that is indeed the reason he's still playing - I don't begrudge the man anything (I have contributed a three-figure sum myself over the past two years), but I wonder for how much longer people will be prepared to pay to watch him.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:35 PM

Art - yours are among the very few decent posts on here.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,W
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:41 PM

We were back at venue you are referring to this evening. The management apologised profusely for the fiasco and made it clear that a refund is available to all. In fact, they specifically encouraged anyone who has not yet requested a refund to do so. Get in touch with them and complain that the gig was c**p and say you want a refund.

W


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,chazz
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:22 PM

Richard can you define what you mean by decent? I'd say there are more than a very few. Theres some junk but a lot of people are just telling it like it happened to them or making a relevant comment. What's wrong with that?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:24 PM

Well, guest Chazz, take humanity 101. Good choice of name. A man is not a commodity.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,chazz
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:27 PM

Can you just answer the question please


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:37 PM

I have never heard Davey Graham.

That said, I think we all have things we'd like to forget, things we'd like never to have done, things that have shamed us. If the man you went to see wasn't the man you saw, then maybe this song will help you.

There But For Fortune by Phil Ochs


Show me a prison, show me a jail,                        
Show me a prisoner whose face has gone pale               
And I'll show you a young man with so many reasons why
And there but for fortune, may go you or I

Show me the alley, show me the train,
Show me a hobo who sleeps out in the rain,
And I'll show you a young man with so many reasons why
There but for fortune, may go you or go I -- you and I.

Show me the whiskey stains on the floor,
Show me the dunken man as he stumbles out the door,
And I'll show you a young man with so many reasons why
There but for fortune, may go you or go I -- you and I.

Show me the country where bombs had to fall,
Show me the ruins of buildings once so tall,
And I'll show you a young land with so many reasons why
There but for fortune, go you or go I -- you and I.
You and I,
There but for fortune, go you or go I -- you and I.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:53 PM

Good post Peace. Jacqui and I used to sing that.

Chazz, I did. If you didn't realise it the point is made.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,chazz
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:11 PM

No you didn't. You simply mouthed something so obvious that it's become a cliche. You seem to think that no one else has the right to state any viewpoint. Anyway bye. Have fun getting in the last word. Out of here


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:59 PM

Good


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: breezy
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:19 AM

So thats it then, sorted

maybe see ya round Dick


Final score 1 - 3


Check out songs by Chris Flegg catters


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:52 AM

I've pondered over this one for quite a while now.
I have no idea who Davey Graham is so having him introduced to me as having been drunk on stage, leaves a little less room for sympathy on my part.
By the sounds of it, the man has made some kind of living from his music and now has an alcohol addiction to deal with.
Fair enough. He's been rewarded for doing well and is old enough to take his lumps when he deserves it.
I can only compare him to my favourite folk singer whom most of you would now consider to be the best in the business.
I've bought his records for decades, sang his interpretations of songs since I was a lad and seen him in concert only once.
He's an alcoholic. Still performs and I believe, is fairly sober for most shows.
Now if I got the chance to see him again and he showed up drunk and incapable, I'd be really ticked. I'd probably have difficulty listening to any of his stuff ever again and would probably start a thread about it right here on Mudcat.
Not quite as bad as "---- ---- What a waste" but enough to evoke some kind of response from you and probably in the hopes that one of you would find just the right thing to say that I may enjoy his music once again.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 05:00 AM

He's human after all is said and done.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,van
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 05:06 AM

Think of the man - not the price of a ticket.

(I used to see him in Cousins for 50p.)


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 05:25 AM

Davy Graham should be honoured for what he has introduced us to:Open tunings on the guitar,
His input, has single handedly changed guitar accompaniment in the folk revival.DickMiles


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Jim Lad
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 05:29 AM

I can overlook the drinking but open tunings....?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 05:33 AM

LOL

The link is to a YOUTUBE thing of Davey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFB6xj1xHnM


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 06:43 AM

beautiful video...that we should all waste our lives in such a fashion.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 06:52 AM

Is that Collins/Graham collaboration, "Folk Roots New Routes" available anywhere?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 07:00 AM

Exploring that link came across this version of Anji.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PwIy-NvhCU

Does anyone know the work of these Japanese guys? I'd certainly like to hear more?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 07:03 AM

And that Yamaha guitar he's playing - I love it! Want one!


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 11:32 AM

That CD is readily available on AMazon.. I just ordered one.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,steve
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 12:25 PM

I saw DG in Plymouth in 1964, a large affable chap, not much of a singer - sung like that bloke in Wagon Train - alright on the guitar though. I reckon it's all to do with that tune on his, Angie. Why on earth was it so influential? Probably because it was put out on a sort of private record label, and showed us all the way forward.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 12:38 PM

People talking about how bad he was at a concert isn't any less career-killing than pity.

I will say that everybody's assuming it's alcohol making him a bit clumsy on the frets. It may be, but it may be something else. Even if he's drinking before gigs, it may be still be something else.

It's funny. I watch/listen to the Youtubosity of the current tour, and I notice the missed notes, hesitancy and the lapses in timing. If I paid to see THE Davy Graham and he was drunk, I'd be mad. If I knew he had MS or some other disease he couldn't do anything about, I could choose to see him and I think I'd be able to overlook the mistakes because I can hear what he's trying to play.

The anger from people who feel let down is because they think he's intentionally doing this to himself and his audience. They think they've been fooled. At the very least, it sounds like his people have adopted a 'he has problems, but the punters won't notice' attitude. The punters have noticed, and the punters are obviously not happy.

I don't doubt the new album is brilliant.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:25 PM

Why has Davy been so influential? (asks Steve); well, of course, we have to talk about this in an historical context. When Davy emerged on the UK folk scene there was distinct no English/Celtic guitar style; everything was American! Back then, even Martin Carthy played in an obvious American way. Davy changed all that! Davy was there first. He show others the way. Anji is his most famous piece but it in way a "on off", and, indeed, is very American in concept. Davy real legacy is his exploration of various folk roots; first, arab/middle-eastern which helped him create a way to approach English/celtic music. His influence on fellow musicians - not only guitarists - was immense. He is indeed one of the greats.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:33 PM

Here! here!


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 02:37 PM

I may well be wrong, I am no expert and I have no inside information, but I feel that if you look at even the limited amount of interview material I have seen, there are the marks of some kind of cognitive dissonance. It may be the result of bad acid, or a different drug, or it may be some kind of sociopathy, but the reactions to stimulus look odd. This may not be recent. Even old materials speak of his social difference.

I don't think that the root of this is simply motor. I don't think it is simply a current chemical impairment. I am put in mind of some of the young actors my late wife used to work with - the ones who were card carrying schizophrenics. You could almost see the dialogue between their different selves, which interrupted their conversation with you. But I don't really have any evidence.

Remember Peter Green was never the same after one bad trip.

I am however less charitable about the objectors. This man is not thier possession. Whatever problem he may have, he is worth, his irreducible worth as a human being is more, greater, on a different plane to the £17.50 per ticket. All they lose is the price of an evening's drinks. Where do they get off damning a soul, and sneering, for that?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: balladeer
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:14 PM

Angie gave young British pickers something to aspire to. I watched them practice it, ace it, play it for each other. On this side of the Atlantic, the lads were mastering Wildwood Flower, Freight Train, and San Francisco Bay Blues. Davy Graham was an innovator, a role model, a strong and unusual finger-sylist in a sea of plectrums - or so it seemed to me, a young visitor from Canada. And in those heady revival days, people who had been masters af the art many years earlier were tracked down in their waiter jobs and their cabbie jobs and their pullman-porter jobs, and helped back on to the stage, where they were revered for what they had been and adored for the echoes of that, however faint. Imho, Davy Graham is a legendary figure and should be respected for what he was, and treated kindly now even if he is only able to produce echoes of what he once did. Of course, the internet has changed how we look at things, given us the power of the blog, and that's generally a very good thing, but I do sometimes miss the days when gossip was usually only whispered in dark corners of secret back rooms. I think maybe the spread of malice was more limited then.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Peace
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 04:15 PM

"I think maybe the spread of malice was more limited then."

Well, it was slower, anyway.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 05:11 PM

Dick Miles,say what you like about DG but he certainly was not the first one to use open tunings on the guitar. He may have been the one to introduce YOU to open tunings but they have been around a while.

Now I suggest you all give the guy a rest.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,punkfokrocker
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 12:59 AM

we all got to accept when its our time to retire eventually..

legends and neverbeens alike..


we all gotta go gracefully..



.. or not..


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 05:49 AM

I couldn't read beyond the first ten posts or so, it was so sad to see the blaming going on. Yeah yeah yeah - it's a persons choice to drink or drug up to the point where they become physically dependent upon a substance - then it's a matter of life and death for them. If they abstain - they may die. Alcohol is the worst to come down from - more dangerous even than heroin according to the drug treatment nurses I am friends with.

Look folks - Alcoholism is a progressive disease and often fatal. If anyone who goes to these shows and sees these displays truly cares, why not make an effort to get the man into treatment? I know, I know - it's never that sinmple but conisder this:

My father has been sober for 30 years and he's been known to walk up to strangers who he's observed in the state described by the OP and quietly convince them to accompany him right then and there to an AA meeting or a hospital. I realize its not that simple, but sometimes a total stranger can have more influence over someone than family, friends or business colleagues. He even walked up to a guy he had arrested once who had only been out of prsion a few weeks and who was already back to dribnking himself into oblivion. Much to my mother's horror, he brought the man home to clean him up a bit and then proceded to accompany him to meeting after meeting for weeks.

The wonderful musisican John Fahey suffered from progressive alcoholism and he's not around now as a result. There are dozens of others we could name. All people seemed to be concerned with is how the musicians alcoholism impacts their enjoyment of a show or how it "ruins" their fond memories. In all the threads such as these where we see complaining about drunken performers there seem to be two postions with the first being it's an offense against the consumer and all the artist's fault with the other being, "Oh well, these things do happen and there's naught to be done about it."

I don't know Davey Graham's situation at all so this is more of a general comment about alcoholic musicians. If you genuinely love the man or woman's music and don't want to be reading their Obit, it's OK for you to go up to them and give it a try. Ask them if they need help. Ask if they want to go on that way. if they say "Yes I need help", and they just might say that, ya never know -- take them to a meeting and sit with them until someone at the AA meeting takes responsibility for them.

Maybe that's overly optimistic of me but I've seen it work. I myself have walked up to two performers who were clearly gin-soaked for a long time and asked if they'd like me to take them to a treatment facility or an AA meeting. One said yes and has been sober for 10 years now.

AA doesn't cure people and it doesn't work magic but sometimes all it does take is a willingness to invest a few hours of your time in facilitating somebody's first steps into a progam.

That said - I'm sure this situation is special - they all are.

I'm sure this man has refused treatment before - they all do.

I'm sure there are hundreds of reasons why an audience member shouldn't do this. Even so, it wouldn't stop me - it hasn't in the past. Ask my long suffering husband who has to deal with the fall-out of such impulse moves on my part.   

As wikipedians say - Be Bold! You might just save a beloved performers life.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 07:39 AM

Speaking as someone with a food addiction, I can honestly say that in my belief it's the person with the addiction who has to take responsibility for their actions. Feeling sorry for someone is all very well, but noone else (however well-meaning their intentions) can sort an alcoholic's life out for them. (That's not to say that having a strong support network won't help btw). It's all too easy these days to blame external influences for your emotional problems ("oh, my boss was horrible to me today, I had to eat a whole packet of biscuits when I got home" etc). I don't believe the outside world is any more cruel today than it ever has been. Or that human nature has changed a whole lot.
I agree that if you're not fit to perform (interact with an audience) then you probably shouldn't be on stage. Anyone who has paid to see a performer has the right to expect a PERFORMANCE by definition.
I have no idea who Davy Graham is and I've never heard his music or seen him live, so I promise I'm not having a dig at him lol...


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 07:45 AM

Food addiction is a problem. You can give up alcohol - absolutely if you so wish and can achieve it - you can give up tobacco (subject as aforesaid) - but you can't do that with food. You always have to have some.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Mark Pavey
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 09:33 AM

Someone; or a group of people from Worcester is trying to cause trouble here. We did 13 dates in total, some were better shows than others admittedly, but all shows were of a standard I felt comfortable with.

For £17.50 over 13 evenings across the country we offered John Smith (who supported John Martyn on his last tour), my best efforts and 45 minutes of Davy Graham playing whatever he felt like on that night. That was it; a reasonable offering. People came.

Having travelled with Davy all that day before Worcester I know for 100% that the only thing Davy had to drink that day was one glass of Chianti with a large meal in Pizza Express an hour and a half before his appearance. The person who claimed to smell alcohol is talking a load of rubbish. During Davy's second piece, which I believe was Capricho Arabe, 5 audience members stood up from the front row and rudely left the building. This upset Davy considerably, and for some reason he mis-timed the length of his set. Having timed his performance as I always do, he left the stage after playing for 38 minutes. Given that this evening was poorly attended and we were heading north for the main part of the tour, I didn't give Davy a hard time about it.

Both Davy and I am tired of middle aged, miserable, middle classed, ravaged types attending our concerts expecting the worse and who are incapable of enjoying what is still relevant, proficient and and moving work. Our audiences at present are split between the cheerful majority and the appalled minority. I would very much like it if those people who have been causing trouble find some other artist to watch. Having been shackled to an indifferent folk label/tag for so long, Davy is finally breaking free of that hangover. It is natural that in order to gain some new fans, he is losing some old ones.

It is not 1966, Davy is not 28, he has made great efforts over the past three years, from being in pretty poor shape into pretty good shape. I know because I made the effort three years ago to help him get something back that he had lost. We are both works in progress, both of us being far from perfect specimens.

6,500 miles later, I am pretty tired and pretty pleased about what we did, I drove all that way in a 1.4 Seat Leon and managed a decent set most nights. We met some great people on the road, but some people just don't get it. Not my problem. Not Davy's problem.

BTW we don't have a deal with Fledgling so no royalties are paid.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 11:27 AM

One of the two friends who saw DG with me at Worcester has just phoned me and told me to see Mark Pavey's contribution above. It was described to me as "shocking". It have just read it and I agree.

"Someone; or a group of people from Worcester is trying to cause trouble here." No one is trying to cause trouble. Unless you count telling the truth as trouble-making. Truth is something you obviously have difficulty with, judging from the rest of your post. Your professional and financial involvement is, I think, making you see what you want to see. I wish I could have seen what I wanted to see that night.

"Davy's second piece, which I believe was Capricho Arabe, 5 audience members stood up from the front row and rudely left the building." That is a plain, straightforward lie. I know this because I sat on the front row. No one on the front row left their seats ahead of us. We left after about 20 minutes, as my first post said. And there were three of us, not five. And we did not leave the building. You should know this, Mark, as *after* the gig (we went to the bar for about 10 minutes) you gave us free CDs in the foyer, "to ease your pain", as you put it.

"Both Davy and I am tired of middle aged, miserable, middle classed, ravaged types attending our concerts" - I don't even know what that means, except the implication that you are hearing a lot of complaints but are dismissing the people rather than hearing what they are saying - "expecting the worse" - the three of us went expecting a great evening - "and who are incapable of enjoying what is still relevant, proficient and and moving work" uh? Have you actually read what people are saying? Are you listening? Have you not noticed, as I have but only since that evening, how many people are leaving disappointed and saying so all over the internet? Do you not remember the crowd of 10-12 people complaining to the MC? Did you not hear the conversation with the ushers, who were as shocked as the audience at what they saw and heard? Have you not considered why the venue are inviting people to have refunds?

I truly hope Davy Graham does make a full recovery from whatever is ailing him. I hope that at some point soon I will be hearing that he is in full control and is once again a performer worth seeing. That will only happen if he is surrounded with honesty and integrity.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 11:43 AM

a) To those who have stepped in without reading the entire thread, go back and read it. It's not all negative. Not by any means.
b) Mark: Thank you for offering your point of view. I have no idea who you are but am inclined to take you at your word.
c)"he left the stage after playing for 38 minutes. Given that this evening was poorly attended and we were heading north for the main part of the tour, I didn't give Davy a hard time about it." You should have. I'd have kicked his arse.
d)"6,500 miles later, I am pretty tired and pretty pleased about what we did," ...6,500 miles? Who in the name of heaven planned that tour? Couldn't have been in the U.K. You'd have to use all the miles we've got and then switch over to kilometers.
e) The very best of luck with your career. I mean that!
Sincerely
Jim


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 12:25 PM

Mark Pavey ,has a right to reply,and I think he has made some good points,particuarly that this is not 1966 and Davy Graham is not 28,but nearly 70. Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 12:42 PM

With you there Dick


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Peace
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 12:53 PM

200? Sheesh, you don't look a day over 123.


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