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Davey Graham: what a waste

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GUEST,OldNicKilby 29 Sep 15 - 10:09 AM
GUEST,Carol-Ann Ballard 29 Sep 15 - 08:48 AM
GUEST,OldNicKilby 29 Sep 15 - 08:23 AM
GUEST,Carol-Ann Ballard 29 Sep 15 - 07:48 AM
GUEST,OldNicKilby 29 Sep 15 - 05:43 AM
Will Fly 29 Sep 15 - 05:05 AM
The Sandman 29 Sep 15 - 03:45 AM
GUEST,David E. 29 Sep 15 - 12:31 AM
GUEST,Carol-Ann Ballard 28 Sep 15 - 07:20 AM
GUEST,TB303 28 Nov 07 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,John Robinson 24 Nov 07 - 10:41 AM
goatfell 24 Nov 07 - 08:35 AM
goatfell 24 Nov 07 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,Brokenbiscuit 24 Nov 07 - 07:17 AM
Jim Lad 18 Nov 07 - 04:25 PM
Lowden Jameswright 18 Nov 07 - 07:02 AM
van lingle 18 Nov 07 - 04:49 AM
The Sandman 18 Nov 07 - 04:34 AM
GUEST,ripped off 18 Nov 07 - 03:35 AM
Bugsy 17 Nov 07 - 06:05 PM
peregrina 17 Nov 07 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,Captain Colin. 17 Nov 07 - 05:27 PM
Jim Lad 17 Nov 07 - 02:40 PM
van lingle 17 Nov 07 - 02:02 PM
The Sandman 17 Nov 07 - 12:59 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 17 Nov 07 - 12:52 PM
Jim Lad 17 Nov 07 - 12:49 PM
Richard Bridge 17 Nov 07 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,Joey A 17 Nov 07 - 08:46 AM
Dave4Guild 16 Nov 07 - 08:46 PM
Jim Lad 16 Nov 07 - 08:40 PM
Bugsy 16 Nov 07 - 08:27 PM
GUEST, Sminky 16 Nov 07 - 06:25 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 16 Nov 07 - 04:57 AM
redsnapper 16 Nov 07 - 04:52 AM
GUEST,ripped off, bristol 16 Nov 07 - 03:39 AM
GUEST,John K 15 Nov 07 - 03:28 PM
GUEST,Jeremy 15 Nov 07 - 02:39 PM
GUEST, Mikefule 15 Nov 07 - 01:21 PM
GUEST,Zeke 15 Nov 07 - 11:35 AM
Effsee 14 Nov 07 - 09:52 PM
Art Thieme 14 Nov 07 - 01:03 PM
GUEST,Zeke 14 Nov 07 - 12:13 PM
GUEST,Grr 13 Nov 07 - 03:44 PM
Bugsy 13 Nov 07 - 01:39 AM
Big Al Whittle 10 Nov 07 - 08:05 PM
Bugsy 10 Nov 07 - 07:38 PM
Richard Bridge 10 Nov 07 - 01:18 PM
GUEST,Den 09 Nov 07 - 07:44 PM
GUEST,Ben 08 Nov 07 - 10:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 10:09 AM

Blue one will be difficult as he has not been dead for 25 years, but there is a "Green " plaque scheme here , that is a possibility, if we can get enough people to recommend it


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Carol-Ann Ballard
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 08:48 AM

Definitely let's get the Davey Graham Blue Plaque on Bosworth Hall.
It would be a fitting tribute.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 08:23 AM

Hello Carol-Ann, is that a "Yes " or rather not . Some of the local Guitarists think that it would be a fitting tribute to an amazing man


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Carol-Ann Ballard
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 07:48 AM

Davey was born in Bosworth Hall - a stately home - then a refuge for his mother cause of the London bombings. He told me his granny had a scandalous encounter with the then Prince of England. He is down in the county records as being a 'bastard'. He was destined to be a King.

During Davey's last year he was taking control and shining. We travelled to Marrakech, Spain and Paris. He said he was holding the key to everything that ever pained him. He was becoming free - some folks really hated that…that is what is really sad.

In the hour leading to Davey's death someone involved in the Davey Celebration and the Stephen Gammond film called Davey a bastard. Something much more serious happened. It was not self-inflicted.

I spoke out but the folk singers went on singing - like a communal white wash.
They wilfully didn't ask questions, didn't want to know the context of their Celebrations or Film. Blanked me. Kept telling me it was the legacy that was important. Was his life worth less than the legacy? Celebrated both.

Davey was not a victim. He died a lion.

Join Care Not Killing.
Boycott Stephen Gammond's film. Make your own!
Get that plague on the Bosworth Hotel!


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 05:43 AM

Perhaps that it would be a good idea to see if we could get a "Blue Plaque " or even a "Green Plaque " that we have in Leicestershire to commemorate his birth place in Hinckley


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 05:05 AM

When I was a young and budding guitarist in the 1960s I fell under the spell of Davey Graham's guitar playing. I lived, ate and drank it. I practised the pieces on each album as they all came out, one after another. My favourite, in spite of the brilliance of "Folk, Blues and Beyond", was his Pye Golden Guinea album, "The Guitar Player" which - to me and many like me - was a seminal album of guitar music.

All that, as I say, was when I was in my early 20s and had just got to grips with the guitar. I then started to hitch-hike down to London, just to see DG at the Cousins - mainly all-nighters - and got the chance to talk to him and play with him on several occasions. He was a charming, courteous and fascinating man, and infinitely patient with a pestering young guitarist!

Fast forward to 1968 and the Cousins. A packed audience was staggered to see Davey, goggle-eyed and slurring, stagger on to a high stool - and fall off it on to the piano (which was at the back of the stage in those days). We all sadly left and got our money back. I remember seeing John Renbourn at the door, peering in with a grim smile on his face at the proceedings. It was heartbreaking.

I never saw him live again - just to keep the memory of his early stuff preserved. And, of course, as I got older and wiser and less tunnel-visioned, other musical influences kicked in. I grew up and, though I rarely play his albums now, his spirit and vision live on.

With the benefit of 50 years hindsight, I would say that, in the end, it's better to ignore his self-inflicted (yes, self-inflicted) drug problems and sad latter years - and remember a man who was absolutely unique in his day and the creator of a style of playing that influenced a generation of aspiring guitarists.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 03:45 AM

Davey was an innovator and a fine musician.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,David E.
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 12:31 AM

Well that was interesting. Why, I wonder, does this come to light now? Intrigued.......

David E.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Carol-Ann Ballard
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 07:20 AM

Davey Graham was not on the internet. He was not the Davy Graham selling snippets from Nick Drake's robe on ebay; and he was not aware of this Thread till 1 June 2008 when he received his tour account - with the most cutting extracts from this thread attached. Those extracts were attached to explain why his total earnings for a 13 date tour were no more than £500 and most likely -£1,333. Take a further loss of management's 20% and a further loss from the CDs given away to disgruntled gig-goers at this concert and you will get a clearer picture. It was blatantly obvious that DG gave concerts in which he was paying for the privilege to be humiliated. The financial liability for the tour rested entirely on DG and was not shared with Management.
Your comments here on Mudcat were as good as an intervention - they actually helped Davey to understand what was going on (he requested a complete print out of the Thread and read them all). It was a sobering experience that supported his decision to cancel the 2008 tour dates. It was solely Davey's decision.
During his lifetime Davey seemed to have so little copyright control and now nobody dare speak up for fear of being silenced or sued. We are not all in the position of having a family member in the legal profession to protect us - or have access to unlimited funds for promoting ourselves. My voice will no doubt be deleted but as Davy's legacy is celebrated by the beautiful and the mighty please give a thought to the man behind the guitar: Should we walk out on him - then clap for another copycat guitarist who can't even play the bum notes gracefully?
Rise in Glory Davey x


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,TB303
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 04:24 PM

Just like to say, Last Saturday i went to another gig (The first since Davy @ The Lowry)

Went to see The Hives @ M/cr Apollo. What a band!!! Great live act. Been meaning to see them for years & finally got there. Highly recommended.

-303


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,John Robinson
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:41 AM

The new issue of Acoustic magazine includes a Davy Graham interview. Maybe a chance for the man himself to give his point of view?

link here


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: goatfell
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 08:35 AM

As I have said many times before leave the guy alone, and let bygones be bygones.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: goatfell
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 08:34 AM

well you pays your money you takes your choice


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Brokenbiscuit
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:17 AM

I dont think a "waste" but possibly still lost?
My main concern has been his disregard for his fans - it might be a problem with management.One example of this is the way preordered CDs have been managed - some people are still waiting with no communication or explanation - I ordered mine in July last years and Im still waiting!.The closure of the original website indicated that there might be a problem - especially because there was some degree of disquiet about the delays posted there. The new website didnt have a forum. Then months of no information and no way of contacting the management through the new web site.
My experience of the gig in Bristol was mediocre - I wouldnt have gone if Id known how poor it was going to be.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 04:25 PM

Dave: The original poster did convey his regrets at both the title and the direction that this thread has taken. He has since left the thread.
I wouldn't really start such a thread in your name but did try to draw their fire by starting a similar thread using my own handle.
As Dick says; It's a personal attack and for that reason alone, I would be delighted to see it gone.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 07:02 AM

I think most posters just want this thread to reach 300


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: van lingle
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 04:49 AM

I agree that this thread would benefit from a name change but only if Ian the cookieless, it's originator, would consent. Just my 2 cents.

Jim, my proper name is Dave "not the news correspondent" Mattingly.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 04:34 AM

But isnt suggesting someone is an alcoholic, a personal attack.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,ripped off
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 03:35 AM

The conclusion,

Excellent in the studio - a massive gamble live!

nuff said


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Bugsy
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 06:05 PM

"Whatever one's views it is disappointing to see mudcatters- especially those who have had their say- advocating suppression of free speech. Credit to the moderators for taking no notice."

I am in no way advocating suppression of free speach. In fact, those that know me will affirm that I am a strong supporter of same. I just think that the discussion doesn't seem to be going anywhere except round in circles.


Cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: peregrina
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 05:37 PM

I fifth the motion; if the thread cannot be closed, then it would be better to have a neutral title at least.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Captain Colin.
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 05:27 PM

Whatever one's views it is disappointing to see mudcatters- especially those who have had their say- advocating suppression of free speech. Credit to the moderators for taking no notice.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Jim Lad
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 02:40 PM

So you won't mind if I start a "van lingle" thread?
Using your proper name, of course.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: van lingle
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 02:02 PM

As long as people have something to say on the subject why close it. As a long-time fan of Mr. Graham I was happy to see Joey A's post.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 12:59 PM

yes, I have asked for this disgraceful thread to be closed before.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 12:52 PM

I second (or third or fourth or fifth) the motion...


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Jim Lad
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 12:49 PM

PLEASE!


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 12:09 PM

O! Elves! With that tribute to a great inspirer ringing out, can this thread please be locked?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Joey A
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:46 AM

Well said Dave. I went to see the Davy, Smith, Pavey concert. The last one in the tour. I couldn't have loved it more. Did i go there expecting to see the Davy Graham that i listen to on the 60's albumns??? No! I expected to see how he has developed now and what he is playing.
If you haters on here think about the fact he is playing for you after so many years of being on the road etc you would be as happy as i was being in the same room. The minute he played a blues song with his reminicant licks of wierd tunings and great blues progressions my face lit up and i was in my element. Yes, he made some mistakes, and yes he may have been drinking. But he was by no means a shambles. I loved his set, and you idiots who have the balls to criticize him obviously have no brains to match and no appreciation for a great musician, Would you expect your grandad to be able to run a 100m sprint as fast as when he was 20?
   Long live Davy Graham!
             JOEY A


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Dave4Guild
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 08:46 PM

For me, to be in a a room with Davy,just for an evening,just to watch him play, just to be there, when he makes mistakes,is a privilege, even for £17.50, and if perhaps his performance isn't quite what you would expect, for reasons I won't go into,well so be it
Amy Winehouse for £22.50,What do I say?

With respect to the man who made me love guitars and folk music!!

Dave


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Jim Lad
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 08:40 PM

I know that there is as much good as there is bad in this thread but the title must be extremely distressing to Mr. Graham.
Can we please either change the title or kill the thread?
Please!


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Bugsy
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 08:27 PM

Come on guys.... Knock it on the head.


Cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 06:25 AM

I owe Davy a debt of gratitude, he was truly an inspiration. I really hope things turn out well for him.

I have very different feelings towards his 'minder' which I won't repeat here.

All the best, Davy - and thanks.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 04:57 AM

You beat me to it, RS. There are two basic positions on this issue. Both have some merit and both have been repeated and bounced back & forth endlessly in a volley that a Wimbledon champion would envy. Nothing more can be said that hasn't already been said a dozen times. They're even talking about us over at fRoots. It's time to give this thread and its subject A REST.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: redsnapper
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 04:52 AM

Good heavens!

I thought this thread had served its time and had long been released on parole.

Sad to see this needless debate continuing on Mudcat. Those who are dissatisfied should work through direct channels not air grievances here.

RS


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,ripped off, bristol
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 03:39 AM

I saw the Bristol farce.
The man obviously has a drink problem and needs help. His management team / agent - hangers on are the ones ripping us off.
I pay good, hard earned money to watch these bands and can't get out very often (due to my own health issues - not self inflicted.
The responsability here for stealing money from me belongs to Davey Graham, the venue (they know his history - I didn't), the promotors, and his team. If the had advertised this as 'one drunk and walk off' - how many would have gone.

He may have problems - so do I. I shouldn't have to pay for this farce of a performance and not get my money back.

This thread is excellent because it makes it a little more difficult for him and his entourage to get away with it again.

Davey - the mrage is over - good riddance to bad rubbish.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,John K
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 03:28 PM

Broken Biscuits has landed! All pre-order cds went in the post 9 November 2007.

I pre-ordered too. No sign...

To be honest though, I'm almost glad. If "Kiba Jaya Jaya Gorachandra" which is now the soundtrack of the disfunctional (non of the links work) website is anything to go by, and presumably one of the better tracks was chosen as an 'advert', well..

Enough. I'll shut up


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Jeremy
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 02:39 PM

"Broken Biscuits has landed! All pre-order cds went in the post 9 November 2007."

Anyone got theirs yet?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST, Mikefule
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 01:21 PM

Sad story.

It is easy to say it's self inflicted, but it is seldom that simple. It's easy to blame temptation, but the Rolling Stones, Motörhead and many many others have made more money, and probably faced (and given into) more temptation, and they still put on a good show every time. It is easy to blame exploitation, but you let yourself become vulnerable to exploitation. It's easy to blame the drink, but all the drink does is sit there in a bottle until someone decides to drink it.

I've had dealings with alcoholics, and you cannot cure them by meaning well, and if you try to help them, they try to drag you into their world. Whether or not it is a "disease" or "condition" is semantics as far as I'm concerned. It is an unpleasant and destructive phenomenon, whatever you choose to call it.

I've been to gigs where the performer has been too drunk to put on a show. It is simply unacceptable.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Zeke
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:35 AM

I was talking about another artist, however, I feel it was on topic.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Effsee
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:52 PM

Guest Zeke 12:13 PM, are you talking about Davey Graham, or some other artiste?


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Art Thieme
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 01:03 PM

NOT PERFORMING from disability was my only option.

I had to figure out a way to get by without the music. Did that by being so poor that I qualified for "help" with health-care for my wife who cannot get Medicare because she was never able to work enough to qualify for that "perk" ! Because my income is too high, I must "spend down" every month (and stay poor) before she can get needed treatments monthly. Still the bureaucracy is unbelievable---the hoops to jump through truly disconcerting.

Mudcat has been a lifeline of some sort to the music, even though I know some here see my wearing my cardio-pump on my sleeve too often to be a negative trait. As a result, I'm here less. That has come to feel good after all is said and done.

Art


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Zeke
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 12:13 PM

"Not performing is great in theory, if you are financially secure, have a pension etc. If not, how do you keep living?"

I should hope my doctor (or even my car mechanic or plumber) wouldn't try to justify an inadequate job with this line.
I have driven two and a half hours and paid well to see a musician whose name you would all know and whose records I love put on an obviously drunken, terrible show. He forgot words and played sloppily, spending more time telling boring, garbled stories than singing and calling for a glass of tequila every three songs.

I felt as though he had stolen my money and my time. The owner of the venu apoligized to us on our way out, but she did not offer to refund our money.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Grr
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 03:44 PM

Well, whoever heard of musicians over-indulging? How shocking.
Maybe he's got problems you lot are unaware of - maybe he needs the support of his fans - he's earned it by now, surely? The man's given his life to music; give him the respect he deserves & leave the poor sod alone.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Bugsy
Date: 13 Nov 07 - 01:39 AM

It might be better to start a Broken Biscuits CD thread.


Cheers


Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 08:05 PM

yes, we could tie a knot in it.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Bugsy
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 07:38 PM

For what it's worth, i think it's about time to finish this thread.

It doesn't seem to be serving any useful purpose anymore.

Cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 01:18 PM

Den - a well chosen name for yourself. Your inconvenience - the pathos of a master creator in (if he is in) decline - in the grand scheme of the universe, which is the more important? Out of your own mouth you confirm you are the lowest of the low.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 07:44 PM

I have been a fan of Davy (now Davey) Graham since the 1960's and bought many of his albums as they were released.

He has always included Jazz material eg Cry Me a River way back in the late 1950's Ken Russel Monitor film. This was impressive and an amateur, but heartfelt tribute to the Barney Kessell original with Julie London vocal. But hell, we didn't have much UK competition against these real jazz players and Davy was very brave to attempt it.

I had never seen him perform live until the recent Salford Lowry concert and I was really looking forward to it. Unfortunately, I felt it was a complete and utter farce and the man should now be left alone to seek oblivion in "night time man drinking in the bars" and spare us all the effort, ticket price and inconvenience of playing at being an appreciative audience.

Better a museum piece than a travelling insult to his past.


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Subject: RE: Davey Graham: what a waste
From: GUEST,Ben
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 10:24 AM

I can't wait to hear it. I went to see Davey in Howarth about a year ago. He wasn't as good I expected but I was still very excited by the whole experience. I spoke to him and he was polite and gracious. He hadn't had a drink. He did, later, drink a pint quite rapidly (so what) in a mid-set break, but that was all I saw him drink. I pre-ordered the then unnamed Broken Biscuits that night when I got home.

I did feel let down by Mark's absolute lack of contact (ie not even a confirmation), and the fact that the forum was removed. I felt he was being rather slippery, and missed out on seeing Davey in Leeds as I was wondering if I had been ripped off. Many others were angry with Mark's conduct. I hope to receive it very soon. There is now a track available to listen to on the official page by the way.


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