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The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07

TheSnail 17 Oct 07 - 09:00 AM
GUEST,Edthefolkie 17 Oct 07 - 09:22 AM
Folkiedave 17 Oct 07 - 10:00 AM
John MacKenzie 17 Oct 07 - 10:10 AM
Folkiedave 17 Oct 07 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,Nicholas Waller 17 Oct 07 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,Edthefolkie 17 Oct 07 - 11:31 AM
GUEST,R4 listner 17 Oct 07 - 11:52 AM
Folkiedave 17 Oct 07 - 03:57 PM
John MacKenzie 17 Oct 07 - 04:06 PM
johnadams 18 Oct 07 - 07:30 AM
doncatterall 18 Oct 07 - 08:47 AM
johnadams 18 Oct 07 - 08:52 AM
doncatterall 18 Oct 07 - 12:39 PM
TheSnail 18 Oct 07 - 01:15 PM
Folkiedave 18 Oct 07 - 02:05 PM
TheSnail 18 Oct 07 - 08:06 PM
TheSnail 18 Oct 07 - 08:15 PM
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Subject: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 09:00 AM

Listeners of a sensitive disposition should not listen again to Matthew Bannister's choice on BBC Radio 4's The Music Group 17/10/07 13:30.

Did I really want to reopen this bag of worms?


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 09:22 AM

Oh yeah - them two (three) again.

It was R**ts by Sh*w of H*nds. Well done Mr Bannister.

What cracked me up was the patronising assumption that his 16 to 24 core audience wouldn't want it on the playlist.

So why was my 22 year old daughter trying to crash the Albert Hall party to get Knightley, Beer and Sykes's autographs, thus preventing the rest of us from going to the pub?


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 10:00 AM

And the lovely way he patronisingly referred to cable-knit sweaters and straggly beards, ballads written in 1533 with hundreds of verses.

Mr Bannister the reason that the English do not sing about their heritage is because the BBC closes folk music programmes and people whoi really ought to know better perpetuate ancient stereotypes.

Will someone write to FEEDBACK? they love doing folk music stuff - I've been on twice this year!!


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 10:10 AM

Closet folkie is apparently a derogatory term according to the way it was used on this programme. It is the first time I have listened to it, having turned it off every other week as the choice of music has been naff in the extreme, judging by the incessant trails for the programme. I also don't think it is a suitable programme for Radio4, God knows they've tried bloody hard to slip another music based programme into the schedule, but DID remains supreme.
It is also the first time I have heard the much discussed SOH, and their allegedly jingoistic ditty. All I can say is, it ain't folk, not by any stretch of the imagination.;
Giok


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 10:32 AM

I think you might try writing to Matthew.Bannister@bbc.co.uk or "Feedback" or someone (the programme does not seem to have a website) and make your protests known there.


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: GUEST,Nicholas Waller
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 11:23 AM

I don't think Bannister has any kind of mangerial role any more so complaining about his personal opinion won't get you far. According to Wikipedia he resigned from the BBC (as Director of Radio) seven years ago to become a freelance journalist, though he does now present R4's Last Word and filled in for someone on maternity leave on R5Live.


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 11:31 AM

Oh well, perhaps Chris Moyles is now free to play "Roots" as much as he likes.

(Irony, as any fule kno)


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: GUEST,R4 listner
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 11:52 AM

What was the problem with Bannister-Sheffield fiddler'in the closet' because he was running the BBC pop(allegedly)channel?

Seemed to me that was a well worded advocacy of Folk from a surprising source-not the only one on R4 incidentally.The Arran jumper bit was polemic,the SOH bit-shanty included seemed to indicate that folkies could use their idiom to point the finger very effectively.

R4 Best


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 03:57 PM

The cable-knit jumper remark (to be precise) was an outdated stereotype. Why use it?

He mentioned how folk singers have straggly beards; he mentioned Kate Rusby, Cara Dillon, Seth Lakeman and Show of Hands - so let's agree that folk singers that he knows don't have straggly beards.

So much of what he said was pure spherical objects. Why should folk music have to put up with this garbage? Fight back.


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 07 - 04:06 PM

YO Dave!!


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Subject: Show of Hands 'Roots' on BBC R4
From: johnadams
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 07:30 AM

I didn't spot this posted anywhere else but....

Radio 4's programme 'The Music Group' (where three people are invited to play a track and discuss it) featured (yesterday 17th Oct) a track from Show of Hands. There was a fairly cogent discussion about the track afterwards which covered English folk, Englishness, etc. etc. Interestingly the guy who played the track was a former Radio 1 Controller and he was asked if he would or did put SoH on the R1 playlist. Guess the answer.

The programme may be heard on Listen Again

Johnny Adams


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: doncatterall
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 08:47 AM

Cara Dillon - English????


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: johnadams
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 08:52 AM

The elves have shuffled things round!!!


I didn't have nearly as much objection to the content as has been expressed above. Yes, they shouldn't make assumptions about the audience but no controller's going to get folk on Radio 1 in a hurry (or Radio 2 some say).

And yes they should not axe our folk programmes, but it seems to me that's all part of the knee jerk reaction to government constrictions on the institution (with the consequent need for ratings and evidence) and not necessarily entirely under the control of the programme makers or controllers.

I thought that amidst the sphericals (as perceived by us folkies) there was a sense that the Englishness debate can help give the music a bit more standing within network broadcast if properly managed.

And you've got to start from where you are rather than where you think you ought to be.

.... and yes, Cara Dillon English? But then the guy referred to Swing Low Sweet Chariot as though it was English. Long way to go yet!


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: doncatterall
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 12:39 PM

to be fair, one of them did point out that Swing Low is a spiritual


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 01:15 PM

What did concern me was that Matthew Bannister said that one of the problems with folk music was that it was being taken up by the right wing. An image we can do without.


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 02:05 PM

Well, I have been around the folk scene for around forty years and whilst I have seen this mentioned a few times - they never seem to come to folk song clubs, sessions or festivals to do any recruiting.


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 08:06 PM

Unfortunately, I have come across this. A chap appeared on the scene a couple of years ago and seemed genuinely enthusiastic about traditional music especially source singers collected locally. He roped people into a few events and made efforts to take folk music into some schools.


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Subject: RE: The Music Group BBC Radio4 - 17/10/07
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Oct 07 - 08:15 PM

Oops. Continued.

Then he announced, to a rather eclectic mix of people, that he was the area spokesman for a charity called The Steadfast Trust.

Here is its Charity Commission entry. Its "Objects" make interesting reading.

I tried to persude him that this organisation would not play well on the folk scene but eventually lost patience with his prevarification and spread the word round local organisations, telling him I was doing so. He hasn't been seen round the local clubs or sessions since although I understand he is still trying to do work in schools.


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