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Interesting e-mail

Declan 12 Oct 07 - 03:12 AM
The Sandman 11 Oct 07 - 01:42 PM
Herge 11 Oct 07 - 12:46 PM
Declan 10 Oct 07 - 08:04 PM
Tootler 10 Oct 07 - 05:26 PM
Leadfingers 09 Oct 07 - 08:32 PM
Malcolm Douglas 09 Oct 07 - 08:30 PM
Declan 09 Oct 07 - 08:04 PM
Tootler 09 Oct 07 - 07:44 PM
Big Mick 09 Oct 07 - 05:39 PM
TheSnail 09 Oct 07 - 06:18 AM
manitas_at_work 09 Oct 07 - 06:06 AM
Declan 08 Oct 07 - 08:02 PM
Jeri 08 Oct 07 - 07:48 PM
GUEST,Val 08 Oct 07 - 07:11 PM
Herga Kitty 08 Oct 07 - 05:36 PM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 07 Oct 07 - 12:27 PM
GUEST 07 Oct 07 - 07:05 AM
The Sandman 06 Oct 07 - 04:22 PM
Bainbo 06 Oct 07 - 02:57 PM
open mike 06 Oct 07 - 12:23 PM
Herge 06 Oct 07 - 07:24 AM
GUEST,Jim Carroll 06 Oct 07 - 03:48 AM
Declan 05 Oct 07 - 02:02 PM
GUEST,Mr. Norrell 05 Oct 07 - 11:18 AM
Jonathan Strange 05 Oct 07 - 03:37 AM
GUEST,Jonathan Strange 05 Oct 07 - 03:23 AM
Leadfingers 04 Oct 07 - 09:44 PM
Herge 04 Oct 07 - 07:45 PM
Bugsy 04 Oct 07 - 07:44 PM
Richard Bridge 04 Oct 07 - 06:36 PM
Mr. Norrell 04 Oct 07 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,Jonathan Strange 04 Oct 07 - 05:32 PM
GUEST,Mr. Norrell 04 Oct 07 - 04:09 PM
Becca72 04 Oct 07 - 03:15 PM
GUEST,Mr.Norrell 04 Oct 07 - 03:10 PM
Susan B 04 Oct 07 - 02:56 PM
The Sandman 04 Oct 07 - 02:27 PM
Declan 04 Oct 07 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,Mr. Norrell 04 Oct 07 - 02:21 PM
Geordie-Peorgie 04 Oct 07 - 02:16 PM
Fliss 04 Oct 07 - 01:51 PM
Fliss 04 Oct 07 - 01:44 PM
Declan 04 Oct 07 - 01:32 PM
Big Mick 04 Oct 07 - 01:28 PM
Mr Red 04 Oct 07 - 01:21 PM
Skivee 04 Oct 07 - 01:09 PM
Big Mick 04 Oct 07 - 01:07 PM
Big Mick 04 Oct 07 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,Mr. Norrell 04 Oct 07 - 12:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Declan
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 03:12 AM

Dick,

Haste to the wedding is the first of the "three tunes" which fit to a dance of the same name. The clapping is done to the third tune.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:42 PM

I have recollections,that the tune fits a dance by that name,the tune is very distinctive ,and fits the clapping of the dance perfectly.Dick Miles


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Herge
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 12:46 PM

Hi
Yes the link from the home page went to the 'our CD page' - it now goes to the page but at the sample for HTTW track

Thanks for this

Herge


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Declan
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:04 PM

Tootler,

Thanks. I eventually found the link and it is Haste to the Wedding as I know it.

The link on the top page which says listen here should point directly to this track.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 05:26 PM

To Declan:

Click on the link on the home page which takes you to the "Our CD" page as you said, then scroll down to the bottom of the page to the track list and you will find a link to an mp3 of Haste to the Wedding on Track 9

To Malcolm Douglas:

I had a look at the thread you posted a link to and while there was plenty discussion on the origins of the ballad forming the subject of the thread, the only mentions of Haste to the Wedding seemed to be as a suggested tune for the ballad. There was nothing else I could see in the thread that in any way added to or contradicted what was in the Fiddlers companion regarding HTTW. If you do have better evidence of the origins of the tune, I for one, would be very interested.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 08:32 PM

100


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 08:30 PM

Note that the first part of the 'Fiddler's Companion' quote is paraphrased from Linscott, Folk Songs of Old New England (1939):

"The tune 'Come, Haste to the Wedding,' of Gaelic origin, was introduced in the pantomime, The Elopement, staged in London in 1767. This version is known as the Manx tune and was printed by the Percy Society in 1846. It is the basis of the Manx ballad, 'The Capture of Carrickfergusby,' written by Thurot in 1760."

For corrections to that statement, inserted in a later edition of Linscott, and further important commentary from Bruce Olson and John Moulden, see thread  LYR REQ: Carrick Fergus  (1998-2000).


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Declan
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 08:04 PM

The link on the site which says listen to our Cd brings you to the first track – a set of tunes called Jimmy Ward Set made up of jigs called Lake Shore Jimmy Ward's and Hartes.

None of these is Haste to the Wedding.

The other link on the home page which reads
Haste to the Wedding is the name of a popular jig - have a listen
brings you to exactly the same place.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Tootler
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 07:44 PM

The tune on HTTW's website is the one I know as "Haste to the Wedding" and I have seen it in several publications under that name.

The fiddlers companion has this to say about it:

The tune 'Come, Haste to the Wedding,' of Gaelic origin, was introduced in the pantomime, The Elopement, staged in London in 1767. This version is known as the Manx tune and was printed by the Percy Society in 1846. It is the basis of the Manx ballad, 'The Capture of Carrickfergusby,' written by Thurot in 1760" (Linscott, 1939). Samuel Bayard (1944, 1981) comments on the popularity of the air over the past two centuries as well as the tenacity of the main title to stick with the tune. When Chappell printed his well-known set in National English Airs (1840, I, No. 163; notes, II, 129; reprinted in JEFDSS, III, 210.), he traced the tune to the year 1767, when it was used in pantomime, to a song beginning 'Come, haste to the wedding, ye friends and ye neighbors!' This version of the air, continues Bayard, is still the earliest known, and it may be that the popularity of the song occasioned the fixed quality of the title. In his 1944 work Bayard posses the question as to whether the words were included in the original pantomime as a result of its associations, or whether the later uses of the tune secured it...

It also gives abc's of three variants.

X:1
T:Haste to the Wedding
M:6/8
L:1/8
R:Jig
B:Sharp – Morris Dance Tunes
Z:AK/Fiddler's Companion
K:D
DFA A2f|ede fdB|ABA AGF|GFG E2F|DFA A2f|ede fdB|AFA faf|ded d3:|
|:afa agf|gfg bag|fga agf|gfg efg|a3 f3|ede fdB|AFA faf|ded d3:|

X:2
T:Haste to the Wedding
M:6/8
L:1/8
K:D
DFA A2f|ede fdB|ABA AGF|GFG E2F|DFA A2f|ede fdB|AFA faf|ded d3:|
|:afa agf|gfg bag|fga agf|gfg efg|a3 f3|ede fdB|AFA faf|ded d3:|

X:3
T:Haste to the Wedding
M:6/8
L:1/8
R:Jig
B:Stewart-Robertson – The Athole Collection (1884)
Z:AK/Fiddler's Companion
K:D
B|AFA Aaf|ede fdB|AFA AdF|EFE E2A|AFA Aaf|ede fdB|AFA faf|ddd d2:|
|:f/g/|faf faf|bgb bgb|afa agf|efe e2f/g/|a3 f3|ede fdB|AFA faf|ded d2:|


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 05:39 PM

A busted clock is right twice a day.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: TheSnail
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 06:18 AM

Looking at John Chamber's ABC Tune Finder, there are (at least) two tunes of that name. One is the one on Herge's website. The other is also caled Rory O'More.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 06:06 AM

It is, Declan.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Declan
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 08:02 PM

One thing the original e-Mailer got right is that the tune you get on the link that says listen to Haste to the wedding - or something like that is not in fact the tune Haste to the Wedding although it it a jig played by the band by that name. Even eejits get things right occasionally.

I'm intrigued as to whether the english tune called HTTW is the same as the one popular in Ireland, and if so where did the tune originate.

For those of you who can remember back that far, the jig popular in Ireland by that name was the theme tune for the TV series "The Irish RM"


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 07:48 PM

Val, there were no brother fuckers or sister fuckers or even mother or father fuckers in Deliverence. There might have been first cousin fuckers, but that was sort of implied, not stated directly. There was buggery, but I'm pretty sure they got that habit from ancestors that came from... well, let's not make this worse. Just saying that buggery is a lot more popular in some places than others.

Speaking of which and moving past that lovely bit of opinion/trolling from Val, isn't 'Haste to the Wedding' an English tune?


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 07:11 PM

"I know what it is supposed to sound like since I have musicians in my family who would not degrade themselves to play for anyone other then their own kin!"

Ah, that explains it! Inbreeding! From the 'Murican side, from that we get stories like wuz told in the movie "Deliverance".


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 05:36 PM

I get the impression that Irish tradition is quite porous. Many traditional Irish songs have migrated from being songs sung in Ireland? eg Dirty old town....greenfields of France....

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 12:27 PM

Charlie;
Sorry-sorry-sorry.
I will sort out the problem I'm having of my posting as a member.
Jim Carroll
The greatest advantage of Alzheimer's is that you meet new people every day.

Not sure who Charley is, but thanks.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Oct 07 - 07:05 AM

"Jim,the problem is that there probably are black men with big willies,and there probably are tinkers that steal railings,but they are undoubtedly a very small minority."
Cap'n,
Of course you are right.
The problem with threads like this is people use them to air all their racist views - ie -judge all travellers by the behaviour of a few.
Tomorrow I will pick up my newspaper and read about the behaviour of thugs in Limerick (aka Stab City); it is almost certain there will be reports of thuggery and violence throughout the week from that City. Does that mean everybody in Limerick is a thug?
Jim Carroll

Jim, I love your posts, but you MUST remember to put your name in the appropriate box or you risk having them deleted. You are a great Mudcatter and contribute valuable information. Please help us out here so you don't get your posts deleted.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Oct 07 - 04:22 PM

Jim,the problem is that there probably are black men with big willies,and there probably are tinkers that steal railings,but they are undoubtedly a very small minority.
here is astory.
Just before Easter,I was out gathering some wood for firing[in a remote area],two tinkers who were out leafletting for tarmacadam work,stopped me and said there is an old fellow down the road in a caravan, and we think he needs a doctor.
so I went to talk to this guy[who was adamant that he was ok,and didnt need help],he clearly wasnt,as he didnt have the strength to go outside to urinate,but had been urinating in a bottle,so despite his protestations I phoned the district nurse[turns out we saved his life,he is still in hospital now,he had some kind of stroke].
Now those two tinkers,Could have mugged that old guy ,BUT they didnt,they showed more concern,than his settled neighbours,who hadnt even noticed,he was ill.Dick Miles.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Bainbo
Date: 06 Oct 07 - 02:57 PM

Ah, Asturias. Completely off-topic, but there are a load of bagpipers from there worth checking out, notable among them Xose Manuel Budino, and Hevia.

Open mike, it is in fact another region of Spain, rather than a country. But Spanish regions are so different from each other that they could almost be separate countries! Asturias is a partucularly beatiful, remote and mountainous one, known for its rough cider and hearty bean stews.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: open mike
Date: 06 Oct 07 - 12:23 PM

the celtic traditions were alive and well in france, spain and portugal.
There is a small country near the Basque region Asturia, where the music and culture was insulated and isolated by being surrounded by mountains.
They have Celtic ancestors there.
see: http://www.llandecubel.com/
and: http://www.asturias.es/
and: http://www.asturias.es/portal/site/Asturias


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Herge
Date: 06 Oct 07 - 07:24 AM

It may well have been a wind up - (but no one has owned up yet!) if so well done


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Oct 07 - 03:48 AM

I get the impression that the original e-mail was a wind-up aimed at taking a pop at Travellers, and from the quality of some of the responses, he or she was not disappointed.
Thirty years of working with Travellers has proved to me that the Travelling community, while having its share of no-brainers and dead-beats, is no different than any other group or community. During the time we worked with them we experienced generosity, friendship and hospitality (and far more tolerance than I would be prepared to offer anybody who treated me like scum). We were able to record hundreds of songs and stories from them, and thinking back, of the hundreds of sites we visited, there wasn't one we would feel more uncomfortable visiting, than, say, walking up Wandsworth High Street at 12 Oclock at night. If it wasn't for The Stewarts, Jeannie Robertson, John Reilly, Margaret Barry (tinkers all), our music would be very much impoverished.
Shite stories like 'stealing railings', are no different as far as I'm concerned than those about black-men with big willies, and belong in history's dustbin along with lynchings and Belsen. The crap story of Johnny Doran sending round the lads because somebody criticised his music, was exactly that - crap; try telling it around here in West Clare where he is revered as the greatest contributor to Irish music, over half a century after his death.
In the early sixties a Birmingham JP proposed (on the radio) that all travellers who wouldn't conform should be exterminated - perhaps some of you should get up a petition.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Declan
Date: 05 Oct 07 - 02:02 PM

Great clip of De Dannan. All skinny young fellas - no Fir Bolg in sight.

You should see some of them now.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Mr. Norrell
Date: 05 Oct 07 - 11:18 AM

: a bunch of Anglo, Buffer bastards!:

Ahhhhh...some Americans have such a way with words... *LOL*


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Jonathan Strange
Date: 05 Oct 07 - 03:37 AM

De Dannan with johnnie moynihan on bouzouki


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Jonathan Strange
Date: 05 Oct 07 - 03:23 AM

Long live Sweeney's Men, Mr. Norrell


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 09:44 PM

Having met Herge and others of H T T W , I just hope that they can appear at the Portaferry gather in February ! ALL good lads , and ALL good musicians !


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Herge
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 07:45 PM

As promised the articulate reply - by the way - whats a buffer? Thanks Big Mick for the compliment.



Where you went wrong is trying to imitate the old sound invented by the Tinkers when all you are are a bunch of Anglo, Buffer bastards!

Garrett

Haste to the Wedding wrote:
Hi
Thanks for your comments - I would really like to hear you play some of your music to see were we have been going wrong.

Haste to the Wedding


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Bugsy
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 07:44 PM

I wouldn't credit this email with the title "Interesting". IMO it's just pontificating, self righteous bullshit written by a narrow minded mean spirited Pillock.

I wouldn't give dross like this a second thought.

Keep up the good work and remember, there's probably more "Irishness" in the energy of ONE of your tunes than in the whole repertoire a TWAT like that.

Cheers


Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:36 PM

Should we inhume those who disagree?


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Mr. Norrell
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 06:12 PM

Exactly, Mr. Strange, exactly!


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Jonathan Strange
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 05:32 PM

Absolute magic I'd say


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Mr. Norrell
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 04:09 PM

ahhh...rock music in the purest sense eh? Trad. Arr.*LOL*


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 03:15 PM

"banging two rocks or a couple of sticks together, or a combination, was pretty universal I think *LOL"


Funny, that's how Kendall describes the music I listen to... :-)


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Mr.Norrell
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 03:10 PM

:Yes but were they authentic Folk Rocks?:

authenticated by the EFDSS ;-)


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Susan B
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 02:56 PM

I had this in reverse today - was busking and happened to be playing La Bastrange. Woman came up and said how happy she was to hear "the old Irish tunes" being played. I decided that I would smile sweetly and tell her that it wasn't Irish, but I could play something Irish for her if she liked. She got very affronted and seemed to think that all music was of Irish origin. It takes all sorts!

Off to a session now!

Susan B


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 02:27 PM

banging two heads together,if herges critic had two heads,it would be appropriate.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Declan
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 02:26 PM

Yes but were they authentic Folk Rocks?


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Mr. Norrell
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 02:21 PM

:If you go back far enough in history, there are no authentic instruments, eh?:

banging two rocks or a couple of sticks together, or a combination, was pretty universal I think *LOL


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 02:16 PM

Aah thought Thomas Moore was from North Yorkshire!!

Quite a large & well known family if memory serves

Ye must've heard of them.

Same With Jimmy Cliff's family in Dover


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Fliss
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 01:51 PM

PS Ive got a Norman Irish surname too by marriage... one that usually describes an Eejit:) as Im English should I really be playing Irish music at all. Please say I can or I will sit in a corner at the session and howl! I think there are probably those at the session that think I do anyway.

Fliss Burke


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Fliss
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 01:44 PM

Mmmm to join in the fray or not to.... ah well.

No mention of banjo.... its accepted as traditional and the guitar which is older isnt. In the Comhaltas Fleadh the banjo has its own competition and the guitar is in the miscellaneous section. I have never worked out why the Anglo concertina is traditional and the English concertina, invented by the same chap ... well isnt.

As for the travelling community, we have an excellent Tinker piper at our session in sunny Shropshire about once a year. THere is a cheer when he walks in and he is always made very welcome for his musicianship. What he does in his spare time doesnt concern us. We wouldnt ask anyway as he was a bare knuckle fighter in his younger days. If we wernt playing the music right he wouldnt bother to come along.

The arguement at the session last week was whether we should add in fusion music ie afro celt etc. I enjoy the newer sounds very much, but dont want them at a traditional session.Its good to play the traditional tunes, or those written in the traditional style.

ah thats better.... off to the weekly session to see if the new muso is still talking to me... which part of "its an Irish music session" didnt she understand!!!


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Declan
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 01:32 PM

Irish Music predates the travellers, although many of them have made major contributions to it. Some say the music dates back to the Celtic tribes and label it Celtic Music (as they drink their Bulmers cider), others say it originates from the Tuath De Dannan (at least around Galway since the mid 70s). I always maintain that the music comes from a tribe called the Fir Bolg (which is a gaelic phrase meaning Stomach Men). There are usually lots of Fir Bolg to be found at Irish Traditional Music festivals.

Given that I have a Norman surname, I'm not qualified to say anything about Irish Music because my people have only been here for less than a thousand years.

Whoever used the word Eejit to describe the sender of this email got it right.

Declan (Who contaminates Irish Music with iberian instruments on a regular basis).


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 01:28 PM

It has been a long time since we have had a good poop flinging fight......oh...... wait....... look at the threads...... never mind.

***chuckle***

Mick


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 01:21 PM

categorising poeple who are bonkers drives them mad.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Skivee
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 01:09 PM

This Tinker's damnation has shown a light on a dreadful problem. The bastardization of folk traditions by those outsiders. The hill people aren't our people, and they ruin everything they touch.
Some idiots would insist that the tradtition is a living expression of ancient Irish culture in a modern world; that using the complexity of instruments made available through the advance of technology allows for exploration of new way to express that tradition. But what do they know.
I'm glad that this fellow has cleared up our misconceptions.
It is obvious that Herge's band doesn't meet the standard of authenticity (I haven't heard them, but if the "fan's" opinion carries any weight, they must be real rotters, one and all). Now that they have had the scales removed from their eyes, I'm sure that they know how foolish it is to play Irish music at all. If they have any integrety at all they will immediately break up. How DARE they not play music in precisely the way that this fellow (who it appears isn't a musician, but knows some) imagines that is was played 200 years ago. Perhaps they should burn their instruments in case they have any urges to play again...and bite their tongues whenever they feel like a bit of sean nos.
The Chieftains, the Bothy Band, Planxty, DeDannan and a thousand others have done a great disservice to the tradition. The surviving members should all be beaten with sticks, or at least punched in the nose...or maybe kicked in the shins and had poop flung on them.


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 01:07 PM

BTW, Herge, I am a pretty fair judge, IMO, of a good sound and a good band. And yours sounds wonderful to me.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 01:05 PM

The only thing traditional about the music and instrumentation of the Irish people (and most of the other country based "traditions" out there) is that they will change and evolve by generation. If one looked at the "traditional" Irish bands of the early 20th century, they would have been playing different instrumentation. And the arrangements would have been different. 100 years before that, same situation. The Uilleann pipes in their current version are a relatively new instrument. The "Irish Bouzouki" didn't exist in its present form prior to about the mid '60's. But one thing is very definitely traditional. It is traditional for half wit bigots, usually from the USA, to make idiotic pronouncements like this person did. And it is traditional for pompous know it alls on the other side of the pond to assume that all Yanks are like this one.

Life goes on, and so does the music.......

Mick


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Subject: RE: Interesting e-mail
From: GUEST,Mr. Norrell
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 12:07 PM

oops that last "guest" posting was me *LOL*


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