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BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia

dick greenhaus 22 Sep 07 - 08:20 PM
Little Hawk 22 Sep 07 - 08:56 PM
Bill D 22 Sep 07 - 09:04 PM
Little Hawk 22 Sep 07 - 09:07 PM
Little Hawk 22 Sep 07 - 09:24 PM
Alba 22 Sep 07 - 09:45 PM
Rapparee 22 Sep 07 - 10:17 PM
Rapparee 22 Sep 07 - 10:19 PM
Peace 22 Sep 07 - 10:20 PM
GUEST,Tom 22 Sep 07 - 11:30 PM
Little Hawk 23 Sep 07 - 03:13 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Sep 07 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,TOM 23 Sep 07 - 10:32 AM
Bill D 23 Sep 07 - 10:42 AM
pdq 23 Sep 07 - 10:44 AM
jacqui.c 23 Sep 07 - 11:01 AM
pdq 23 Sep 07 - 11:10 AM
Jeri 23 Sep 07 - 11:21 AM
jacqui.c 23 Sep 07 - 11:24 AM
Rapparee 23 Sep 07 - 11:26 AM
Rapparee 23 Sep 07 - 11:27 AM
pdq 23 Sep 07 - 11:35 AM
Big Mick 23 Sep 07 - 11:46 AM
Bill D 23 Sep 07 - 12:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Sep 07 - 12:58 PM
Little Hawk 23 Sep 07 - 02:55 PM
pdq 23 Sep 07 - 03:04 PM
Peace 23 Sep 07 - 03:08 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Sep 07 - 03:56 PM
Little Hawk 23 Sep 07 - 04:58 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Sep 07 - 05:38 PM
dick greenhaus 23 Sep 07 - 10:45 PM
mg 23 Sep 07 - 11:13 PM
katlaughing 24 Sep 07 - 12:20 AM
jacqui.c 24 Sep 07 - 08:34 AM
Riginslinger 24 Sep 07 - 11:49 AM
dick greenhaus 24 Sep 07 - 01:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Sep 07 - 01:55 PM
beardedbruce 24 Sep 07 - 02:53 PM
dick greenhaus 24 Sep 07 - 03:19 PM
Peter Kasin 24 Sep 07 - 03:46 PM
Peter Kasin 24 Sep 07 - 03:54 PM
Riginslinger 24 Sep 07 - 04:15 PM
Teribus 24 Sep 07 - 06:42 PM
beardedbruce 24 Sep 07 - 06:48 PM
jeffp 24 Sep 07 - 06:54 PM
Little Hawk 24 Sep 07 - 06:56 PM
dick greenhaus 24 Sep 07 - 07:44 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Sep 07 - 08:12 PM
Bobert 24 Sep 07 - 08:21 PM
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Subject: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 08:20 PM

Opinions? My feelings are that this presents a marvelous opportunity for Columbia to instruct students on proper behaviour. It's fairly simple: Picketing is fine, but you can't keep others from attending. Preventing the speaker from speaking is verboten. Expressions of approval or disapproval are limited to previous rule. Students who violate rules face suspension or expulsion.

And these should apply whether the speaker is Ahmadinejad or Cheney.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 08:56 PM

Here's an extraordinary little snippet of news from today's Yahoo headlines and news stuff:

"Even before leaving Iran, though, Ahmadinejad has already caused a stir in New York. His request to lay a wreath at the World Trade Center site was denied, and protests are planned outside the UN building and at Columbia University."

That is bizarre. How can anyone be denied the gesture of laying a wreath at the 911 site???? Who will protest that?

They are denying it because they cannot bear to allow Mr Ahmandinejad to publicly do anything that would detract from his present image as the USA's official demonic bad guy and threat to the world.

In other words, it would be detrimental to present Bush administration propaganda efforts which are aimed at increasing tension between Iran and the USA, not decreasing it.

God forbid that Ahmadinejad or any other chosen "evil" enemy should ever be allowed to publicly do anything that might cause an improvement in relations...

No, he must be forever depicted as gleefully chuckling over the 3,000 American civilians who died on 911. That's what a bad guy would do, right? He certainly cannot be allowed to lay a wreath!

It wouldn't look right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 09:04 PM

It's not a matter of right or wrong...It would cause protests and disruptions like have seldom been seen... by those who THINK it's right or wrong.

"Sorry, Mr. Ahmadinejad, but we can't afford to cordon off the entire area and pay 1500 cops ovetime, so you can have a photo-op."


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 09:07 PM

Yes, Bill, I see your point. Existing impressions of good and evil, no matter how knee-jerk they are, must not be tampered with.

But really...I do see your point. And of course Ahmadinejad would be using it for his own purposes...as a photo-op.

There's a lot of cynicism at play on both sides of that equation, I'm afraid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 09:24 PM

Here's what I would do, Bill, if I were the president of the USA.

I would say, "Mr Ahmadinejad, that is a fine gesture on your part, and one that I and all Americans can appreciate. Therefore, I am going to go WITH you to the 911 site and we will both lay down wreaths together in memory of the innocent people who died on 911. I will ensure that proper security is provided. It is my hope that this will serve as a springboard that can lead to new and substantive negotiations to ease the differences between our nations and defuse the atmosphere of mutual distrust that has existed between us ever since 1979."

Both sides would get their photo-op. Security would be provided. A door would be opened at least a crack toward something positive for a change.

What a revolutionary notion!

I would do that, because I don't want a war with Iran.

But if one does want a war with Iran, then one doesn't consider doing any such thing...right? Enemies must forever remain enemies when one wants a war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Alba
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 09:45 PM

Little Hawk..... applause
My Best Wishes to you
Jude


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 10:17 PM

I don't think the US wants a war with Iran. We were forced into the mess in Iraq


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 10:19 PM

...by politicians who told the military "do it." The US military is currently stretched so thin that it couldn't support a war with a country as advanced as Iran and continue in Iraq (not to mention Afghanistan). If somebody wants to fight Iran, let France do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Peace
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 10:20 PM

Let Iraq do it. It worked before!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 11:30 PM

Let that little terd from Iran go to ground zero, on his way there lets blow his convoy up with some of the IED's from Iran, that have killed american troops in Iraq. Maybe if you dont like that, lets storm his building at the UN in New York and take him hostage for over a year. You know, like his college friends did when they stormed our embassy in the 1970's. I'm just kidding I'm sure he can talk some sense to the stoned students and get them to also buy into his anti Jewish bullshit. Nice going GWB letting that Piece of Shit in our country....


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 03:13 AM

Never trust a man who would rather fight than talk first and then maybe fight later...when and IF it's truly necessary. Such men are killers at heart, and killers can't be trusted, no matter what side of the line they stand on.

Those who are afraid to have a dialogue with their temporary enemy...and a study of history will show you that all enemies are temporary...those who are afraid of dialogue with their "enemy" secretly fear that they will lose the chance to continue hating him and lose the chance to one day kill him...that being what they really, really long to do. They guard their hatred like a dragon guards his golden hoard. They detest anyone who speaks for peace or compromise, because it might take away their enjoyment of their hatred. It might take away their chance to kill.

Do you know what the USA did to Iran, starting in the 1950's...long before their 1979 revolution, Tom? Maybe you don't, but they do. Do you know what the USA got Iraq to do to Iran for 8 years in the 80's? Maybe you don't, but they do. The blood of far more than 3,000 Iranians is on USA hands. Figure the blood of at least several hundred thousand Iranians, maybe a million of them, and you're beginning to get the picture. Figure the oppression of an entire society for decades by means of US-provided money and arms under a US-backed dictator and you're beginning to get the picture.

That's why they had that Islamic revolution in 1979, and why they were so angry at the USA. There would have been no such Islamic revolution had the USA not sewn the field for it to occur. There would also be no Al-Queda had the USA not sought out and trained Osama Bin Laden's religious fanatics in the 80's, and formed them into the Mujahedin in order to kill Russians for the USA in Afghanistan. Reagan's people did that. They gave birth to what is now Al-Queda. They gave birth to what is now the Taliban. And they did it to kill Russians and bankrupt the Soviets. They cared not what would happen afterward, although there were sensible people in the Islamic world who warned them that they were creating "a Frankenstein monster" when they trained those Mujahedin.

The USA is entirely the author of its own troubles in regard to the present confrontations with radical Islam...but you need a memory more than 6 or 7 years long to figure that out...

And the more "reality" TV and empty crap like that which you watch, the shorter your memory gets, right?

Have pity on a society (our North American society) in which the young people commonly use the word "history" to describe things which don't matter to anyone anymore. The past matters tremendously. It made the situations we are now faced with, and if you don't understand it or even remember it, you're lost.

The U.N., Tom, is NOT in "your country". The U.N. is international territory, and you cannot stop ANYONE in the world from visiting the U.N. because it is NOT under American jurisdiction or control. You are a guest of the WORLD when you enter the U.N.

(They never should've put it inside the USA in the first place. They should have put it inside Belgium, Switzerland, Sweden or some other relatively small, neutral, and modest country that does not imagine itself to be the Boss and Commander of the entire world and the Sword in the Right Hand of God.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 07:46 AM

I suppose it'd be too much to hope for that this might be a way of putting the record straight, and undoing some of the lies and distortions about some of the stuff the man is supposed to have said in the past, and didn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: GUEST,TOM
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 10:32 AM

Thanks for the history lesson chicken hawk. I do know what we did to Iran in order to get oil companies over there to get rich, and cheap oil. Could we have talked down Germany in the the late 30's and early 40's, what about Japan. If you let some guy go around and say crazy shit like Jews lied about dying in ovens in WW2,. Lets leave the middle east alone and pull out everybody thats american. I'm sure with billions and billions dollars from oil for a least the next 50 years that they will not get nukes and not fight wars. To think we can all just bury our heads in the sand and things wont be f**ked up is weak and just a pipe dream..smoke another one bro....


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 10:42 AM

well...Im glad THAT'S clarified!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: pdq
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 10:44 AM

Little Hawk:

Your last post is one of the worst piles of crap in the history of Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 11:01 AM

Well said Little Hawk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: pdq
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 11:10 AM

"Mohammed Reza Pahlavi was the shah of Iran from 1941 to 1979, except for a brief period in 1953 when Prime Minister Muhammed Mosaddeq overthrew him. Mosaddeq was in turn overthrown with assistance from the U.S., and the shah was returned to power as a U.S. ally. He greatly modernized Iran and established social reforms, many of which angered fundamentalist religious leaders. In 1979 the religious opposition, lead by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, drove the shah into exile. Khomeini sought the capture of the shah, and when it was learned that he had been admitted into the United States for medical treatment, Iran's response was the start of the hostage crisis at the U.S. embassy in Teheran. After dismissal from the hospital the Shah fled to Panama, then Egypt. He died on July 27, 1980, at the age of 60."


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 11:21 AM

I'm glad he's going to speak. He may be as nasty as has been reported, but the speech is going to be in his own words, not those filtered through an interpreter who possibly spun it, reported by somebody in the media who possibly spun it and reacted to by a government who undoubtedly spun it because they reall seem to be trying very hard to find a reason to go blow something up in Iran.

No, I wouldn't trust what he had to say, but I'd listen because I definitely don't trust the US government. I'm afraid he might not sound like the monster some people keep telling us he is. I think that's what they're really worried about - people hearing him without the proper spin being added.

He might be a truly evil person, I don't know. If he is, it won't be difficult for the students at Colombia to figure it out. A few of them might be smarter than those who want to stop them from hearing Ahmadinejad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 11:24 AM

It's a bit like inviting your kid's seemingly unsuitable partner round for a family meal. That can end up with opening eyes on both sides and I think that will be the case here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 11:26 AM

NEVER prevent someone you consider an enemy or a potential enemy a chance to speak. You might learn something that can help you later, should fighting become necessary and unavoidable. If nothing else the hot air will help reduce the heating bill.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 11:27 AM

By the way, the current regime in Iran wouldn't be in there if Bush had kept his mouth shut just before the election. Iran was leaning towards the moderates before that.

And if you doubt me, check it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: pdq
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 11:35 AM

"Nice going GWB letting that Piece of Shit in our country..."

As long as the UN building is located in the United States, every piece of crap on the world stage will be welcomed into the US. George W. Bush has done nothing to prevent or encourage his speaking here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 11:46 AM

Hey folks, why would you be afraid of letting "that Piece of Shit" in our country? The essence of a free society is the airing of all points of view and letting them stand or fail on their merits. An important aspect of that is trusting the citizenry enough to be able to discern the rightness or wrongness of someone's agenda. My guess is Ahmadinejad will speak, he will present his case slanted in a way that will make it appear legitimate, this will spawn debate and examination, and in the long run the majority of these students will get it right.

Only little people who are unsure of the rightness of their positions would be afraid of "every piece of crap on the world stage" speaking here.

And while he is here, Ahmadinejad should stop by the White House and kiss GWB on the lips. This is because Rapaire is right on, Bush put this man in power by attempting to meddle in the electoral process of Iran.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 12:19 PM

"NEVER prevent someone you consider an enemy or a potential enemy a chance to speak. You might learn something that can help you later..."

Yes, indeed! About 40 years ago, my university had George Lincoln Rockwell as a speaker. I went, curious to hear the spewer or the worst kinds of hate in HIS own words. I was quite appalled....then I was extremely appalled as he got round after round of applause & cheers from a fairly large section of the audience.

What I learned was, be VERY careful of who you speak to and what you say to the people around you everyday until you know them, for if they are the sort that would cheer a Nazi, they might do other things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 12:58 PM

But if they are the sort that might cheer a Nazi it might be as well to find that out, wouldn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 02:55 PM

Rapaire said it perfectly: "NEVER prevent someone you consider an enemy or a potential enemy a chance to speak. You might learn something that can help you later, should fighting become necessary and unavoidable."

That was my point, my whole point, and nothing but my point.

pdq - Thanks, pal. Your enthusiastic endorsement is what I live for when it comes to political matters. ;-) I do not share your interpretation of the political history of Dr Mossadegh and the Shah...nor do most Iranians. Mossadegh was sacrificed upon the altar of corporate profit...just like Allende and a great many others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: pdq
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 03:04 PM

At least get one thing right, Birdfeathers: the Pahlavi monarchy was installed in 1925 with Shah Reza Pahlavi who ruled until 1941. His son, the man we usually call Shah, ruled from 1941 to 1979. He was not installed in 1953 by the CIA and evil British oil barrons as you have claimed time after time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Peace
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 03:08 PM

TP-AJAX


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 03:56 PM

Re-installed is more the word, if we're being a bit pedantic. Put back in power in a putsch that destroyed a democratic government that was seen as inconvenient for the USA and the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 04:58 PM

He was re-installed, pdq, after a very progressive parliamentary government that was reforming the country got brought down by the CIA, at which point those reforms were ended. The CIA did it on behalf of the international oil industry...as an extension of US-British policy. They did it for money. (and power...but money IS power)

Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" for the full story of the whole sorry affair by a man who was on the inside at the time.

Another incipient Third World democracy with nationalistic ideals was abruptly crushed by the big hand of corporate commerce, and replaced with the rule of a compliant autocrat.

Your government doesn't really run your society at all, pdq, it serves as a handmaiden to those who do run your society: Mega-Corporations. You live under a gigantic corporate oligarchy...and matter of fact, so do I. It controls Canada too. Its only purpose is to maximize profit. It will use you if you are compliant, it will crush you like a bug if you're not. The best you can hope for is that you don't get in its way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 05:38 PM

Iran is a developing country, and feeling its oats. A little careful diplomacy and the right kind of aid might do much to increase secularization, which many Iranians want, and at the same time decrease emphasis on militarization.

Shias in Iran are in the majority. Thousands cross over into Iraq to worship at the shrines of their religion. The part of Iraq that is Shia would be more stable under Iranian control.
Syria is mostly Sunni, the Iraqi Sunni area belong with them.

The Kurds could form a legimitate nation, if the Turks (and Russians) would cooperate to mutual advantage and not threaten war.

Oh, well- too much to hope for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 10:45 PM

Bill D-
The incident you described may not have enlightened you about Mr. Rockwell, but I suspect it provided some worthwhile insights about the people around you. All in all, probably a good learning experience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: mg
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 11:13 PM

I would let him go and lay a wreath with very high security and US dignitaries as well, and not a huge amount of publicity. I don't see what it can hurt. He might be compartmentalized and OK in some areas. I don't know. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 12:20 AM

Another cost of free speech:

In an interview with The New York Sun, the speaker of the Assembly, Sheldon Silver, said lawmakers, outraged over Columbia's insistence on allowing the Iranian president to speak at its World Leaders Forum, would consider reducing capital aid and other financial assistance to the school.

Well, that'll show them, for sure! Nah, nah...we're going to take away your allowance if you talk to him! Jaysus.

Jeri, me, too. Rapaire, well put.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: jacqui.c
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 08:34 AM

Anyone see him on 60 minutes last night? Interesting.

Scary thing was, some of the stuff he was saying we agreed with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 11:49 AM

"I would say, "Mr Ahmadinejad, that is a fine gesture on your part, and one that I and all Americans can appreciate. Therefore, I am going to go WITH you to the 911 site and we will both lay down wreaths together in memory of the innocent people who died on 911."

          LH - I suspect that's what FDR would have said too. It only goes to point out the degeneration of leadership in the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 01:41 PM

Free speech- IF they agree with you---or was that another thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 01:55 PM

One gesture which wouldn't do any harm would be for the USA to formally apologise for the shooting down on July 3rd 1988 of a civilian Iranian passenger jet flying in a commercial air corridor at 17,000 feet, resulting in the death of everyone on board, 290 people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 02:53 PM

Point of fact, LH:

How many people in Iran were killed by the "evil" shah ( or his secret ploice) during his TOTAL reign?

How many Iranians were killed by the fundamentalists in the first YEAR that they controlled Iran?

When you have those numbers, then talk to me about Iranian lives...


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:19 PM

BB-
You don't have to like, approve of or endorse someone in order to allow him to speak.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:46 PM

I'm with Dick Greenhaus on this one. Academia should be a bastion of free speech.The real test of free speech is allowing viewpoints that are repugnant to you. Ahmedinejad's views are repugnant to me, but if I was at Columbia, it would be an opportunity to hear him in person, and to possibly pose challenging questions to him (and I hope Columbia is planning Q&A after his talk). Remember, Students and community members in a town in (Utah, I think)) tried to prevent Michael Moore from speaking, arguing that his views were totally repugnant to the community, and that college fees should not go to him for a speaker's fee. Students supporting free speech won the battle, and he gave his speech.

Chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:54 PM

Just remembered the title of the documentary about Michael Moore and the controversy over his invitation to speak at a college: "This Divided State." Well worth seeing! Check your local library. Also available from Amazon.com. It's a lesson in the meanings of free speech and academic freedom.

Chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 04:15 PM

Reading the press releases, it seems to me like the president of the university came off like an idiot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:42 PM

"Do you know what the USA got Iraq to do to Iran for 8 years in the 80's?" - Little Hawk

Silliest question that I have ever seen posed. The premise that the USA got Iraq to do anything to Iran in the years 1980 to 1988 is historically and factually incorrect. Maybe Little hawk could enlighten us as to what channel of communication was used to achieve what he claimed?

"There would also be no Al-Queda had the USA not sought out and trained Osama Bin Laden's religious fanatics in the 80's, and formed them into the Mujahedin in order to kill Russians for the USA in Afghanistan. Reagan's people did that. They gave birth to what is now Al-Queda. They gave birth to what is now the Taliban. And they did it to kill Russians and bankrupt the Soviets." - Little Hawk

Left wing myth, exploded by the senior officer in the Pakistani ISI who did seek them out, supplied and trained them, oh some of it was done with American cash, as well as more from Saudi Arabia, Republic of China and few other interesting sources including Iran. As previously stated some American cash filtered through Pakistan to the Mujahideen but not to Al-Qaeda, that was the brain child of:

"A wealthy Saudi named Osama bin Laden was a prominent organizer and financier of an all Arab islamist group of foreign volunteers; his Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK) funnelled money, arms, and Muslim fighters from around the world into Afghanistan, with the assistance and support of the Saudi and Pakistani governments. In 1988, bin Laden broke away from the MAK and formed Al-Qaeda."

Mega-Corporations eh? Spend too much of your time with your nose in comic books LH, try actually looking at history and studying it as it should be studied, you only ever view anything from one perspective, coloured by your own biased view.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:48 PM

I have no problem with them inviting him to speak- but how about letting ROTC back on campus? Or are you saying that only SOME have freedom to speak???


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: jeffp
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:54 PM

Just wondering. Was Ahmadinejad recruiting for the Iranian military?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:56 PM

"you only ever view anything from one perspective, coloured by your own biased view"

Yes indeed! A lovely statement that accurately describes virtually everyone one this site, Teribus, yourself included. Matter of fact, it accurately describes virtually every person that presently inhabits the globe. People are biased. I've never met anyone yet who wasn't. Biased people view things from one perspective, and they only investigate alternative perspectives in order to find some flaws in them that they can gleefully pounce on and fulminate about to anyone willing to listen.

We don't agree about politics, Teribus. We never will. You would know why if you were inclined toward some form of useful introspection and self-criticism instead of merely addicted to verbal attack. Don't get too worked up over the fact that we don't agree, because it can only cause you unnecessary stress. Just enjoy your beliefs, my good man, revel in them, and I shall do the same regarding mine. I know your views aren't gonna change anything. I know mine aren't going to either. The world will keep turning regardless, and presently we'll both be dead, and someone else will be loudly arguing about it in our places.

Bla. Bla. Bla. and more Bla. But what fun, eh? ;-) It beats playing darts and watching telly, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 07:44 PM

"You exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator," Bollinger declared.

"Frankly, and in all candor, Mr. President, I doubt that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these questions," Bollinger said, as protesters demonstrated outside the hall.

This, m9ind you, was an introductionIn my initial post, I suggested that Columbia could do well to teach its studens some basic good manners. I was premature. Somebody should teach Columbia some basic good manners. And I hold no brief for Ahmadinejad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 08:12 PM

Evidently Bollinger was doing his utmost to try to ensure that the questions would not be answered.

Very much in the inquisitorial tradition of "Have you stopped beating your wife? Answer Yes or No!"

Incidentally, is he anything to do with the champagne of the same name? (Thread drift, I know...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ahmadinejad at Columbia
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 08:21 PM

Well, I was disgusted by the remarks made by the president of Columbia... He showed no grace, he was rude and he represented all that the rest of the world sees as American arrogance...

He should have have either said nothin' or should have shown more grace...

This was another golden opportuntiy that America thought was a fine time to show its ass...

B~


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