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Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?

GUEST 21 May 07 - 02:50 AM
Mick Tems 21 May 07 - 03:01 AM
Raggytash 21 May 07 - 03:08 AM
nutty 21 May 07 - 03:08 AM
Keith A of Hertford 21 May 07 - 03:10 AM
Schantieman 21 May 07 - 03:16 AM
guitar 21 May 07 - 03:19 AM
Jean(eanjay) 21 May 07 - 03:31 AM
GUEST 21 May 07 - 03:37 AM
Blowzabella 21 May 07 - 03:38 AM
Blowzabella 21 May 07 - 03:41 AM
Mick Tems 21 May 07 - 03:43 AM
greg stephens 21 May 07 - 03:59 AM
guitar 21 May 07 - 04:07 AM
mandotim 21 May 07 - 04:12 AM
Richard Bridge 21 May 07 - 04:36 AM
Ella who is Sooze 21 May 07 - 04:42 AM
skipy 21 May 07 - 04:59 AM
The Fooles Troupe 21 May 07 - 05:20 AM
Liz the Squeak 21 May 07 - 05:42 AM
Schantieman 21 May 07 - 05:52 AM
woodsie 21 May 07 - 06:07 AM
Backwoodsman 21 May 07 - 06:16 AM
Liz the Squeak 21 May 07 - 06:19 AM
skipy 21 May 07 - 06:22 AM
Micca 21 May 07 - 07:05 AM
InOBU 21 May 07 - 07:49 AM
RangerSteve 21 May 07 - 07:49 AM
GUEST 21 May 07 - 07:51 AM
GUEST 21 May 07 - 07:54 AM
Liz the Squeak 21 May 07 - 07:56 AM
Liz the Squeak 21 May 07 - 07:57 AM
GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler 21 May 07 - 07:58 AM
GUEST 21 May 07 - 08:06 AM
Ella who is Sooze 21 May 07 - 08:22 AM
Sorcha 21 May 07 - 08:24 AM
GUEST,Phot in the Pacific 21 May 07 - 09:18 AM
Charley Noble 21 May 07 - 09:52 AM
artbrooks 21 May 07 - 10:28 AM
The Fooles Troupe 21 May 07 - 10:39 AM
Greg B 21 May 07 - 10:45 AM
Teribus 21 May 07 - 10:54 AM
EBarnacle 21 May 07 - 11:23 AM
Backwoodsman 21 May 07 - 11:45 AM
DonMeixner 21 May 07 - 11:57 AM
skipy 21 May 07 - 11:59 AM
s&r 21 May 07 - 12:00 PM
Teribus 21 May 07 - 12:00 PM
GUEST,Matelot 21 May 07 - 12:05 PM
GUEST 21 May 07 - 12:09 PM
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Subject: BS: Cutty Sark ablaze (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 07 - 02:50 AM

What a tragedy.

Presumably the same crew of renovation workers who burnt down Windsor Castle.
    I put this in the music section because of the obvious folkloric value of the Cutty Sark.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Mick Tems
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:01 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6675381.stm

Oh, God. She was a famous, unique ship. I'm much too far from Greenwich, but what is going to happen to the sea song and shanty sessions?


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:08 AM

I fear from, the little I saw on the news, that the ship will be completely destroyed, a very sad loss, however it would appear that no one was injured which in the great scheme of things is far more important. No doubt funds wil be forthcoming to build a replica using whatever is left of the fabric and a heritage centre erected to show to devistation of the blaze.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: nutty
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:08 AM

Apparently 50% of the ship had been removed for restoration, so the damage may not be as catastrophic as thought at first.

Providing that the iron frame of the ship has not been distorted it should be possible to re restore the vessel.
Obviously this would mean that the vessel would not be completely original.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:10 AM

The masts and many timbers had been removed and are safe.
The ship will be resrored.
They say it was arson.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Schantieman
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:16 AM

Apparently the fire is now more or less out. 50% of the deck planking has been destroyed ot badly damaged but the hull seems more or less intact. (This from an interview with somone who seemed to know what he was talking about, on The Today Programme this morning.

Good job the gas cylinders didn't go off!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: guitar
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:19 AM

aye and how many £'s will it cost the tax payer to fix the boat, because the government won't pay a thing an I beat they'll set up a fund, to fix the old boat


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Subject: RE: BS: Cutty Sark ablaze (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:31 AM

Windsor Castle was burnt down by carelessness - a lamp was left alight too close to a curtain.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:37 AM

I was down there with Cobble yesterday taking pix of what can be seen of the restoration (I had forgotten that it was being done) all the masts spars and rigging had been removed so they are probably safe and according to the local TV news this morning the damage while extensive , may not be catastrophic. There was already a 25 million pound restoration fund in place for the work that had already started so maybe it will cover some ,if not all of the costs of repair and restoration. The suggestion seemed to be that a large amount of her timbers and planking would need replacing anyway. A lot seems to depend on whether the wrought iron frames on which the hull timbers are mounted have survived undamaged.
A sad day for those who love ships and for sailors everywhere, and for Londoners for whom it was both an attraction, a symbol, and an old friend.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Blowzabella
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:38 AM

Guitar - sorry don't understand what you are saying - you say ...

'how many £'s will it cost the tax payer to fix the boat, because the government won't pay a thing'

Surely, if the government won't pay a thing ... er, it won't cost the taxpayer ... a thing.

Where do you think the government gets its 'things', if not from the taxpayer???

If the government were to pay for restoration, then it would cost the taxpayer. I can't make out if you are saying that would be a good thing or a bad thing?

Or are you just having an incomprehensible rant?


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Blowzabella
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:41 AM

I saw her last May and, have to say, she was in a dreadful state then. Even her keel looked to be virtually rotten. As thet were in the middle of restoring her, they would have been replacing many of the timbers too. Of course, th eold argument arises - at what point does it stop being the Cutty Sark etc etc.

I think there is little doubt that the cast iron frame will have been affected by the fire - to what degree remains to be seen.

The police, at the moment, are treating the fire as suspicious.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Mick Tems
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:43 AM

BBC News (8.30am) sounded more hopeful. The ship was undergoing restoration and was closed to the public. Apparently the famous masts and all the priceless artifacts had been removed and were not damaged.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 May 07 - 03:59 AM

No boat of that age is all original.It will be restored well and be as fine as ever.And still the same boat. Boats are just the same as houses, bits need replacing from time to time.A great nuisance, but not a tragedy.And it's an ill wind that blows nobody any good: boat building skills need maintaining or they get lost!


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: guitar
Date: 21 May 07 - 04:07 AM

I didn't realize that I wrote that until you pointed it to me. Thank you


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: mandotim
Date: 21 May 07 - 04:12 AM

I have my grandfather's axe. My father replaced the head, and I replaced the shaft. I have my grandfather's axe. The restored ship will still be the Cutty Sark; you can't burn history and context.
Tim


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 07 - 04:36 AM

Was it insured?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cutty Sark ablaze (UK)
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 21 May 07 - 04:42 AM

I'm gutted, that ship held fond childhood memories. We used to visit it alot when we lived nearer to London. It used to be a day trip out. I've also got a lovely photo of my dad (who died in Feb) standing next to it.

Shame, real shame.

EWIS


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Subject: RE: BS: Cutty Sark ablaze (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 21 May 07 - 04:59 AM

Reading the "BBC front page" it appears to be not as bad as thought earlier.
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: Cutty Sark ablaze (UK)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 May 07 - 05:20 AM

Looking at the TV pic - it just looked like a burnt out hulk...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cutty Sark ablaze (UK)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 May 07 - 05:42 AM

The picture is misleading as most of the metalwork and 50% of the timber had already been removed for renovation, a huge programme of which had started fairly recently. What burnt was the remaining wooden bits and most of the damage seems to be char.

The facts that Limpit and I were in Greenwich on Saturday; that my grandmother burnt down 3 cottages when she was 9; and I've been suffering from stress recently have no connection whatsoever with this event.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Schantieman
Date: 21 May 07 - 05:52 AM

Big chunks of HMS VICTORY have been replaced by GRP and new wood during restoration, but it's still the same ship (NOT a boat!)

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: Cutty Sark ablaze (UK)
From: woodsie
Date: 21 May 07 - 06:07 AM

Here is a bit from the BBC:

"A fire which severely damaged the famous 19th Century ship Cutty Sark is being treated as suspicious by police.
The ship, which was undergoing a major restoration project, is kept in a dry dock at Greenwich in south-east London.

An area around the 138-year-old tea clipper had to be evacuated when the fire broke out in the early hours."

I am devestated. This was a vital part of Greenwich, a beautiful clipper. A meeting point for travellers and an icon - there is even a whisky named after it! Lets hope that they can fully restore it - I know they were short of funds as it was, let's hope there is some sort of insurance cover.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 May 07 - 06:16 AM

She's a ship, not a boat. A boat is the thing hanging from the davits on board a ship (or alternatively, it's acceptable to describe a submarine as a boat).


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Subject: RE: BS: Cutty Sark ablaze (UK)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 May 07 - 06:19 AM

As far as being short of funding goes, this fire couldn't have happened at a better time... it will raise the profile, there will be calls for people to donate to 'save this gallant little clipper' and the fund should recieve a huge boost from people that care.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: skipy
Date: 21 May 07 - 06:22 AM

Trigger has still got his original roadsweepers brush!
Just that the handle has been replaced twice & the head five times!
Skipy


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Micca
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:05 AM

Sorry friends, Guest 3.37 was me posting at work, I was so upset I forgot to sign it


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: InOBU
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:49 AM

what a real tragidy... saw her years back... I hope folks might feel inspired to donate to restore her, she is the last of her kind, and great when she was in service.
lor


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:49 AM

I saw the story on the news this morning in the U.S. They seemed optimistic that it will be saved. Anyway, the question in my mind is, where does the name Cutty Sark come from?


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:51 AM

well I agree with guitar it is a boat


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:54 AM

a boat or a ship who cares it floats on water anorack


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:56 AM

The Cutty Sark is named after the witch in a Robbie Burns poem 'Tam O'Shanter'. Wikipediment says it's 18th Century Scots for a short shirt.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Cutty Sark ablaze (UK)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:57 AM

Can a helpful little elf combine the two Cutty Sark threads please?

LTS
    Done.
    -Helpful Little Joe-


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:58 AM

So, seeing as she's in a dry dock and not floating...:)


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 07 - 08:06 AM

So it's gang up on Guitar is it? I mean that 's great know I know that'll never diss him unlike you lot, I mean I wouldn't like you lot as my friends that is these one's who like splitting hairs.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 21 May 07 - 08:22 AM

as I said in the other thread, it holds lovely memories for me too. used to be a place I went to   visit on days out with my parents when I were a child. It's a lovely ship, a real shame.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 May 07 - 08:24 AM

Dave Bryant took me to see her. Now they're both gone....sad.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: GUEST,Phot in the Pacific
Date: 21 May 07 - 09:18 AM

I used to go and see her with my late Grandparents when I used to live in The Smoke. I used to want to see her so often that we used to joke that I had shares in her! Such a shame this has happened. But with luck like the Mary Ellen Carter, she'll rise again!

Wassail1 Chris.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 May 07 - 09:52 AM

It's still a shock to see the pictures and read the story. And I hope that this near disastor helps mobilize a capital campaign that will rebuild the ship, and recommission her for sailing! I do remember prowling aboard her in 1997.

While revisiting Sydney, Australia, I was amazed at the work that went into restoring the James Craig and then even more amazed when I learned they were actually sailing her.

I also remember reading how C. Fox Smith took such great delight in being a passenger aboard her as she was towed to Greenwich (See THE RETURN OF THE CUTTY SARK, by C. Fox Smith, © 1924), knowing that she was to be restored rather than scrapped for salvage.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 May 07 - 10:28 AM

Terrible thing! If it was started, I hope that they catch the bastard and keelhaul him!

I spent a lot of time on the brig Niagara when we lived in Erie, Pennsylvania. It was part of Perry's Great Lakes fleet, and was purposely sunk in 1820 as excess to the US Navy's needs at the time. It was later raised, in 1913, as part of the centenary of the War of 1812. The term used for what was done to the Niagara is "reconstruction" - although there are original timbers in the present ship, they are more-or-less encapsulated and aren't really part of the ship's structure. The Niagara sails on a regular basis, mostly locally, in Lake Erie.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 May 07 - 10:39 AM

Saw a doco on the Irrawaddy Paddlesteamer flotilla - sunk in WWII to deny the Japanese - now being raised and restored and used.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Greg B
Date: 21 May 07 - 10:45 AM

When I visited in the 90's I was invited to chantey for
kids on on overnight visitation program; they were operating
a windlass as I recall.

I was somewhat disconcerted by the great gaping doorway that
had been cut into her side to admit the public. I hope that
will be remedied somehow in the restoration to still allow
access for those with disabilities, but without the great
gaping doorway in the wrong place.

Perhaps now they'll also add a fire suppression system.

Interesting interview on the BBC this morning, with the head
of the foundation that owns her. Clare Balderson (sp?) asked
him why the ship was so significant. He held forth that ships
of the Cutty Sark's type were the 'final' development of ships
of the sailing trade.

I guess perhaps he was forgetting that there was a generation
of more practical iron packet ships of relatively greater
displacement that were more commercially viable and successful,
albeit not so fast and graceful as the clippers. These followed
the Cutty Sark's generation by some decades. Or perhaps his pride
in his personal favorite was showing. I suppose he might be
forgiven a bit of hyperbole, when she lies in ashes.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Teribus
Date: 21 May 07 - 10:54 AM

Clouds and silver linings - I saw on the BBC Scottish news that because of what had happened to the "Cutty Sark" in Greenwich, that the decision to demolish what is left of the "Carrick" (Another Clipper currently rotting away ashore in Irvine, Ayrshire) may be reversed and that she will be "reconstructed" - About time too as it was on that premiss that she was originally shifted from Glasgow all those years ago. I agree with Charlie, one or both should be restored to full sailing condition. Norway, population just around 4.6 million have three full rigged sail training ships, Christian Radich (Clipper); Sorland (Clipper) and Stadsrad Lehmkhul (Jammer). They are of tremedous value to youth groups, are a terrific tourist attraction and are a terrific advertisement for a sea-going nation.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 May 07 - 11:23 AM

The key is that they are training ships for a viable merchant marine. Static displays are all very well for museums but, in the US, the powers that be have degraded our merchant marine to the point that almost all merchant vessels visiting the US use flags of convenience which allow lower pay for the crews as well as lower standards of safety equipment.

It is the Wal-Martization of our industries. I suspect that GB has the same issues.

Eagle is maintained by the Coast Guard. The Navy has a collection of racing yachts. Some of the maritime colleges in the US have ships [not sailing vessels] which are used to train their cadets in sea-going skills.

Rose is/was a member of ASTA. She was sold to be Jack Aubrey's frigate Surprise and is now a static exhibit.

When Wavertree was restored to sailing condition for OpSail 2000, she was not allowed to sail, even with a picked crew. Even so, she looked grand sitting in Atlantic Basin.

Regrettably, Cutty Sark, even restored, will sit in her basin deteriorating and being restored for people to dream on. She should be going to sea to train cadets and acting as an ambassador.

If you don't risk it you don't have it.


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 May 07 - 11:45 AM

Teribus, the UK has a number of Sail Training Ships - STS Stavros S. Niarchos, STS Prince William (Brigs owned by the STA), STS Lord Nelson and STS Tenacity (owned by the Jubilee Sailing Trust) to name but four. Not historic ships, I grant you, but they fulfil the same purpose.


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Subject: The Cutty Sark has Burned
From: DonMeixner
Date: 21 May 07 - 11:57 AM

I just caught wind of this. Does anyone have the news on this awful event? Is it damaged beyond repair? Any lives lost?

Don.


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Subject: RE: The Cutty Sark has Burned
From: skipy
Date: 21 May 07 - 11:59 AM

no one hurt or killed. there are 2 other threads on this that might bring you up to date.
Skipy


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Subject: RE: The Cutty Sark has Burned
From: s&r
Date: 21 May 07 - 12:00 PM

Much of the planking coach house and artefacts are away for restoration. Arnold Spokesman said the complete restoration was possible.

Stu


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Subject: RE: Cutty Sark fire: what happens now?
From: Teribus
Date: 21 May 07 - 12:00 PM

Granted Backwoodsman - "Cutty Sark" and "Carrick" would be absolutely marvellous additions to their number and just through size and history more effective.


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Subject: RE: The Cutty Sark has Burned
From: GUEST,Matelot
Date: 21 May 07 - 12:05 PM

It certainly looks a mess though it was heavily stripped down for restoration at the time - rigging/masts off, etc. It is also steel framed though there is a danger that this could have been warped by the heat. Keep fingers crossed.


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Subject: RE: The Cutty Sark has Burned
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 07 - 12:09 PM

Probably caused by one of those pipe smoking chantymen they bring in to add "charactor."


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