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BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.

Keith A of Hertford 26 Mar 07 - 06:40 AM
Wolfgang 26 Mar 07 - 08:42 AM
The Shambles 26 Mar 07 - 09:46 AM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Mar 07 - 09:51 AM
The Shambles 26 Mar 07 - 10:15 AM
Jean(eanjay) 26 Mar 07 - 10:19 AM
The Shambles 26 Mar 07 - 10:43 AM
Stu 26 Mar 07 - 12:14 PM
GUEST 26 Mar 07 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Misty 26 Mar 07 - 01:16 PM
Greg B 26 Mar 07 - 02:28 PM
GUEST,meself 26 Mar 07 - 03:11 PM
GUEST,lox 26 Mar 07 - 04:15 PM
gnu 26 Mar 07 - 04:20 PM
Herga Kitty 26 Mar 07 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,Lsn 26 Mar 07 - 06:31 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Mar 07 - 06:35 PM
Tootler 26 Mar 07 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,meself 26 Mar 07 - 07:08 PM
Charley Noble 26 Mar 07 - 08:17 PM
guitar 27 Mar 07 - 05:17 AM
ard mhacha 27 Mar 07 - 06:44 AM
Big Mick 27 Mar 07 - 06:59 AM
Wolfgang 27 Mar 07 - 08:02 AM
ard mhacha 27 Mar 07 - 09:26 AM
ard mhacha 27 Mar 07 - 09:27 AM
Flash Company 27 Mar 07 - 11:05 AM
guitar 27 Mar 07 - 11:50 AM
Den 28 Mar 07 - 09:37 AM
Big Al Whittle 28 Mar 07 - 10:55 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 28 Mar 07 - 11:04 AM
Big Mick 28 Mar 07 - 11:13 AM
Big Al Whittle 28 Mar 07 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Misty 28 Mar 07 - 01:32 PM
Wolfgang 28 Mar 07 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,meself 28 Mar 07 - 04:42 PM
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Subject: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:40 AM

That's all, but it is the first time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 08:42 AM

Paisley and Adams agree deal (link to GUARDIAN article)

Good news. Let's see if Paisley can bring his supporters to agree. I have no such worries about Gerry Adams's side.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:46 AM

Once some people have power - even if in this case if it is only the power to obstruct the positive efforts of others - it is always going to be difficult to get them to give it up.

Or to get them to share it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:51 AM

They have agreed!


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 10:15 AM

Whatever has been achieved as far as power sharing goes - has been dfficult - has it not?

It has taken long enough to get to this point and I see little reason to think that it is going to get any less difficult from this point onward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 10:19 AM

They were smiling - is that significant?


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: The Shambles
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 10:43 AM

I am reminded of a Mike Heron CD title called 'Smiling Men With Bad Reputations'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Stu
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:14 PM

I have to say I find it incredible that on the day these two finally meet, no-one (except keith et al on this thread) seem to have noticed. Shame Divis isn't here anymore in my opinion.

This is a truly historical event many thought would never happen, and people are more interested in waffle.

That's my rant. I'm back off back to my thread about middle lane sitters on the M6.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:16 PM

And don't these two deserve each other..problem is, no one else deserves them. What a world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: GUEST,Misty
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:16 PM

Now that sounds like Divis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Greg B
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 02:28 PM

Sounds like the opening line of about 1000 possible jokes:

Part A: 'So Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley meet...'

Part B: (choose one)

...'in heaven...'

...'in a bar...'

...'in hell...'

...'on a street in downtown Belfast...'

...'on a street in London'...

...'on a street in Derry'...

...'on a street in Londonderry'...

(forgoing two depend on who's telling it :-)

...'in the gents...'

...'in church'... (scratch that one, too unlikely)

Part C:

'...and one says to the other...'

Part D:

(Dave Allen can fill it in, he's cleverer than I.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 03:11 PM

As to why there hasn't been a lot of comment on this thread, I think the meeting and agreement seem almost too good to be true - perhaps people are reluctant to speak too soon.

On the other hand, there are certain of our Irish and English friends who never seem at a loss for words ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 04:15 PM

Whatever your politics or point of view, the sheer idea of the two of them agreeing to anything, let alone power sharing, would have been unthinkable a year ago. If you had said it to anyone from the north 10 years ago they would have laughed at you. 20 years ago and they might have thought you weree taking the piss and bbeaten you to a pulp.

This is the unthinkable happening, and of immeasurable significance.

But that's the story of most peoples lives - so many unthinkable things have happened in mine that I become uneasy during the calm.

Well done Gerry and well done Ian - for them the right thing was hardest to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 04:20 PM

The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step... there is always hope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:15 PM

Shaking hands will be the hardest thing to do.... won't it?

But good news - thanks Keith for starting the thread!

Kitty


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: GUEST,Lsn
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:31 PM

Yeah a good day for peace


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:35 PM

Hell is freezing over tonight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Tootler
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 07:05 PM

As to why there hasn't been a lot of comment on this thread, I think the meeting and agreement seem almost too good to be true - perhaps people are reluctant to speak too soon.

On the other hand, the impression I got from a visit to Northern Ireland last October was that people had more than had enough of the troubles. I lost count of the number of times people said "It's over" and they clearly desperately wanted that to be true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 07:08 PM

I'm sure they do desperately want that to be true. I'm just saying that maybe some people on this list have been disappointed so many times that they are hesitant to start celebrating ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Mar 07 - 08:17 PM

I wish you all well, the orange and the green, and as Gery Adams added, "other colours as well."

Amazing!

I was also amazed when Nelson Mandela advocated reconcillation after taking power in the Republic of South Africa. That country's still not perfect, but it hasn't sunk into uncivil war.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: guitar
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 05:17 AM

it's about bloody time


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 06:44 AM

Sure there is always hope, but can you picture the scene with oul RIP and his never, never, men whispering sweet f alls to Gerry`s crew, they will be at it hell for leather from the start. I can assure you there is no one dancing in the streets,the topic of conversation here is more about the merits of our GAA, Soccer and even Cricket teams, definitely not the Stormont Assembly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 06:59 AM

Finally, one of the voices I was waiting to hear. Ard Mhacha, is there division in the Nationalist community over this. A good friend of mine that lives in Belfast and was over visiting for St. Pat's, indicates that many consider Adams a traitor. I am curious as to the attitude on the street with regard to the process. It seems to this Irish American that we are seeing what many swore would never come.

Many will throw out comments here based in a complete lack of understanding of what happens on the ground. I am interested in HEARING what folks that live with all this think of it.

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 08:02 AM

Dissident Republican voices can be read in The Blanket. My link goes to one particular article very critical of Adams/McGuinness but from there one can easily navigate to all other articles.

Where lies the difference between a republican turned British agent and a republican turned Minister of the Crown? Both are employed by, and receive payment from, the British state. Both function to preserve and administer British rule in Ireland. Both are morally and politically repugnant, albeit to varying degrees.

This is not my opinion, BTW. I consider the Adams/McGuinness leadership towards the GFA very good and clever politics. The majority among the Nationalists and Republicans seem to think similarly now. If a strong majority in one part of the world votes for peace and power sharing outsiders (like me) should not tell them they took the wrong way but wish them strength, determination, stamina, and luck.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:26 AM

Big Mick and Wolfgang, I can assure you that the people I talk to every day do not have the Assembly and its twists and turns their numero uno in everyday conversation. The fact that 40% of the electorate didn`t vote tells all, apathy is prevalent with the people on the street.
As for Adams and his party being denounced as traitors, there is very little talk of that, a few die-hards Republicans stood for election and failed miserably.
Just stand back and observe the shambles between both sides when and if the Assembly meets, I have lived a life-time here and there is no way the Unionists want to share power with the Nationalists, i`m sorry to sound so cynical, but


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:27 AM

I am yet to be convinced otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Flash Company
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:05 AM

Nice Matt cartoon this morning of the Devil skating in a frozen over Hell!

FC


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: guitar
Date: 27 Mar 07 - 11:50 AM

PS.

I don't think it will last, Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley will now have try and convence there supporters or else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Den
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:37 AM

I think a number of us view this meeting with a jaundiced eye. So Gerry Adams (Gerry has two R's in his name BTW) and Ian Paisley meet. Kind of reminds me of when Gerry Adams and David Trimble (then leader of the UUP largest unionist party at the time) met. Remember when famously or infamously (depending on how you look at it) Trimble refused to shake Adams' hand. The Assembly didn't happen then either. Is Paisley sincere? And if he is, will he have more luck than Trimble in convincing his party members and constituents that power sharing with Catholics is the way forward? Already the DUP has party members resigning. Check http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/article2399429.ece out. Jim Wells is talking about going, Jim Allister resigned yesterday as did Leslie Cubitt, George McConnell went weeks ago, the Rev. William McCrae isn't a happy bunny. He said it made him, "sick to the bottom of his stomach", to think that the DUP would be sharing power with Sinn Fein. And what of little Jeffrey Donaldson. He left the UUP to Join the DUP when he felt that they (UUP) were getting to cosy with Sinn Fein.

You see I remember George McConnell and Jeffrey Donaldson very well. I went to a protestant High school to study for 'A' levels. No local catholic school had 'A' level accreditation at the time. The nearest one was a 40 mile round trip away. So bucking the trend, myself and a few other brave souls decided to attend the local protestant high school. This was in the 70's. Jeffrey was at the same school at the time and I vividly remember he and George McConnell leading a demonstration of "concerned" parents and pupils around the playing fields carrying placards that variously read Fenians/Taigs out. I remember Jeffrey at school. He could never even look me in the eye and never spoke one word to me the whole time I was there. I've often thought of that over the years and wondered as his political star ascended, how with this kind of mentality could he ever objectively represent any constituency. Sorry got off the beaten track there a little but I thought I'd inject a little local colour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:55 AM

I suppose these people do well in their own orbit.

Your story puts one in mind of young William Haig addressing the tory party conference at a young age and receiving rapturous applause from that gang of bastards - asking that young offenders should be flogged.

This was at a point in English history when most English schoolboys could be legally beaten within an inch of ther lives for the grievous sin of having an untidy desk.

I was chatting online to Divis yesterday about the 'new set-up'. He is remarkably upbeat. let's hope he's right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 11:04 AM

Adams would do well to examine Paisley's hand very carefully before shaking it.

Paisley has proved himself time after time to be one of the most evil, bigoted, bastards that ever lived, and I will lay odds that any stab in the back will be carried out by him.

I'd love to see peace as much as any man, but I fear that it will only come after he pops his clogs.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 11:13 AM

Thanks, Den. That is exactly what I am looking for. I hope others living in the area will share their views on this.

All criticism of Paisley and his motives is surely fair, given his actions over the years. But it seems to me that every single one of these events that he is forced (grudgingly)to participate in, shortens the distance that must be traveled to bring peace to the children of the North of Ireland. That is what this is about ..... the future. Our generations will have a very difficult time forgetting the past. With luck, and devotion to the end result, perhaps the children will get there.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 11:29 AM

My own feeling is thus. Paisley has probably done enough to screw this set up. Blair is very unpopular. if Cameron gets in, with a weak tory majority - the ulster unionists will have the London parliament by the short and curlies once again - before the new set up gets going properly. Limitless opportunities for brainless destruction.

that will be Paisley's legacy.


let's hope I'm wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: GUEST,Misty
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 01:32 PM

Someone is very upbeat about what?, read very carefully Den`s post and you will get an indication of the Unionist mind-set, Paisley`s DUP
will never agree to anything proposed by Sinn Fein, upbeat!,can they nean beat-up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:20 PM

Misty,

Divis is known here as a Republican from NI. He has told us stories similar to Den's. Divis, Ard Mhacha, Den, and others are people we listen to (even if we don't always agree) when we want to know about the Republican view of the conflict. Den expresses more the doubts and Divis perhaps more the hopes but they and we are united in cheering for the side of hope.

Paisley is one of the most stubborn, bigoted, single-minded, uncompromising, hate-mongering politicians I can think of, but if he's willing and able to deliver I'll be ready to strike off the "uncompromising" epithet.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Gery Adams ian Paisley meet.
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:42 PM

Might be a bit like Nixon going to China - Paisley has enough credibility with the hardline loyalists to be able to get away with a conciliatory move toward the republicans. Maybe.


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