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Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull

GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 27 Feb 05 - 11:02 PM
GUEST 27 Feb 05 - 11:30 PM
GUEST 27 Feb 05 - 11:32 PM
GUEST,Captain Windermere 28 Feb 05 - 07:52 AM
greg stephens 28 Feb 05 - 07:55 AM
Paco Rabanne 28 Feb 05 - 08:46 AM
Hand-Pulled Boy 28 Feb 05 - 11:59 AM
Paco Rabanne 28 Feb 05 - 12:01 PM
Sttaw Legend 28 Feb 05 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 02 Mar 05 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 02 Mar 05 - 06:15 PM
greg stephens 02 Mar 05 - 06:18 PM
Paco Rabanne 03 Mar 05 - 04:08 AM
Sttaw Legend 03 Mar 05 - 04:22 AM
GUEST,Vladimir Nabokov 03 Mar 05 - 04:59 AM
GUEST 03 Mar 05 - 06:12 PM
Linda Kelly 03 Mar 05 - 06:29 PM
GUEST 03 Mar 05 - 06:30 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 04 Mar 05 - 07:30 PM
Dave Hanson 05 Mar 05 - 05:57 AM
Big Al Whittle 05 Mar 05 - 06:08 AM
greg stephens 05 Mar 05 - 06:15 AM
Linda Kelly 05 Mar 05 - 07:31 AM
Hand-Pulled Boy 05 Mar 05 - 08:32 AM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 05 Mar 05 - 04:57 PM
GUEST 05 Mar 05 - 05:16 PM
Linda Kelly 05 Mar 05 - 05:25 PM
greg stephens 05 Mar 05 - 05:29 PM
Malcolm Douglas 05 Mar 05 - 06:39 PM
oombanjo 06 Mar 05 - 04:08 AM
Dave Hanson 06 Mar 05 - 04:22 AM
Linda Kelly 06 Mar 05 - 04:53 PM
Richard Bridge 06 Mar 05 - 05:14 PM
greg stephens 07 Mar 05 - 06:27 AM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 07 Mar 05 - 06:54 AM
GUEST,jOhn from Hull 07 Mar 05 - 05:46 PM
greg stephens 07 Mar 05 - 05:49 PM
greg stephens 07 Mar 05 - 05:53 PM
GUEST,jOhn 07 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM
greg stephens 08 Mar 05 - 02:50 AM
oombanjo 08 Mar 05 - 03:15 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 08 Mar 05 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,jOhn 09 Mar 05 - 07:06 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 09 Mar 05 - 07:26 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 09 Mar 05 - 08:01 PM
Paco Rabanne 10 Mar 05 - 03:34 AM
greg stephens 10 Mar 05 - 08:44 AM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 10 Mar 05 - 12:38 PM
Paco Rabanne 11 Mar 05 - 03:58 AM
Sttaw Legend 11 Mar 05 - 04:08 AM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 11 Mar 05 - 11:30 AM
oombanjo 11 Mar 05 - 04:06 PM
GUEST 11 Mar 05 - 06:16 PM
Hand-Pulled Boy 12 Mar 05 - 05:14 AM
GUEST,Flopsy Bunny 12 Mar 05 - 05:27 AM
greg stephens 12 Mar 05 - 11:05 AM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 12 Mar 05 - 04:51 PM
GUEST 12 Mar 05 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 12 Mar 05 - 08:46 PM
GUEST 13 Mar 05 - 04:41 AM
greg stephens 13 Mar 05 - 05:16 AM
greg stephens 13 Mar 05 - 05:18 AM
Oaklet 13 Mar 05 - 07:26 AM
Hand-Pulled Boy 13 Mar 05 - 08:05 AM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 13 Mar 05 - 04:51 PM
Oaklet 13 Mar 05 - 06:06 PM
Dave Hanson 14 Mar 05 - 05:06 AM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 14 Mar 05 - 12:05 PM
GUEST 14 Mar 05 - 12:07 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 14 Mar 05 - 06:47 PM
GUEST,jOhn 14 Mar 05 - 07:09 PM
GUEST 14 Mar 05 - 07:40 PM
GUEST,jOhn 14 Mar 05 - 07:47 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com 15 Mar 05 - 06:00 AM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com 15 Mar 05 - 12:22 PM
Oaklet 15 Mar 05 - 01:40 PM
Sttaw Legend 15 Mar 05 - 02:19 PM
oombanjo 15 Mar 05 - 04:21 PM
GUEST 15 Mar 05 - 04:27 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com 15 Mar 05 - 05:30 PM
GUEST 15 Mar 05 - 06:13 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com 15 Mar 05 - 06:18 PM
Hand-Pulled Boy 15 Mar 05 - 08:54 PM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com 16 Mar 05 - 09:07 AM
GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com 16 Mar 05 - 09:32 AM
GUEST,Proud Curd cheese.cake@ yah...com 16 Mar 05 - 10:08 AM
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Subject: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:02 PM

there is lots of them in Hull, unfortunatly English people belive them.
    Gee, I sure don't see enough music information in this thread to justify keeping it in the music section. I think I'll move it down to "BS." Some of the messages border on racism, and I may close the thread altogether if it doesn't settle down.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:30 PM

But surely it is safe for you to go back home now?
Then you wouldn't have to call yourself a refugee

You dont seem to like Hull, evidently, so why stay?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 05 - 11:32 PM

You do spell 'spurious' well, though.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Captain Windermere
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 07:52 AM

spurious is spelt well, though the chip in his shoulder and the cry of victim seem to be spelt out much clearer.

Never fear, Captain Windermere is here


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 07:55 AM

Lets have the names. Who are the spurious people? I am seriously interested in this, as I am currently working with a lot of Kurdish musicians.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 08:46 AM

I have read this, and the other thread relating to the event at Ferens Art Gallery, and don't quite understand what's going on. Anyone got any bright ideas?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 11:59 AM

It's a foreign thing Ted.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 12:01 PM

Sounds Masonic to me Derreck/Derrick/Derek.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 28 Feb 05 - 12:08 PM

Its not Masonic Ted, the art gallery is already built, its on the right as you go in.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:12 PM

greg stephens- you tell me the names that you are friends with, and i'll even tell you the people if they are fake Kurdish musicians or not.

To the one who sayed go back home it is safe!- you really dont even deserve an answear, if you want politics you welcome. I can wipe the flor by you in politics.

flamenco ted- if some thing is not your business, why should you get yourself into it!?

Hand-Pulled Boy-lol- i like people who dont care about "PC". god bless you.

Captain Windermere- thank you very much.


By the way- the thing i write is not only my view but it is the view of the majority of Kurdish people.

thanks for reading.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:15 PM

For you information Hull is my second city and UK in my second country and i love it more than any thing in this world, i have a chance to go away from hull, but i will never. im Hull servant.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 06:18 PM

No, I'm not going to give you a list of Kurds I know. I have recorded lots of Kurdish singers(and players) in Stoke, and I know a couple of guys in Hull as well. But I think if you are telling us there are people we shouldn't listen to because they are no good, you should tell us the names.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 04:08 AM

Greg,
    Troll alert! I smell a rat here.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 04:22 AM

Can you remember trolley buses Ted?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Vladimir Nabokov
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 04:59 AM

Hey Spurious Kurdish Refugee, have you got a job yet ? if not fuck off back to Kurland, you are just a drain on our society.

Vlad


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 06:12 PM

Vladimir Nabokov- your name seames very English! where did you come from?
for your information im working 6 days a week, and im paying for your skumes in job center, and paying your pensioners. why because your young people dont want the shetty job im doing it for you. belive me i dont want to get these words from you, if i could Fuck off to my country i would, and also you dont even know how to read or write im not from "Kurland" what the hell is kurland???!!!??.
my country is richer than yours if you dont belive me, make a reaserch, but i dont think you even want to know, but you want to talk rubbish.

greg stephens- i will tell you some names my friend, 1. Rashid&Dilzar. 2. Adalet. 3. Nahro. and some others, i know where they come from i know what families they are from, i know what kind of jobs they did in Kurdistan. dont belive them, they know nothing.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 06:29 PM

You speak a lot guest but you say nothing, and why you would seek to make deflamatory remarks against your fellow countrymen is a mystery to me. You say these people do not represent Kurdish music and tradition- I suggest you take a good long hard look at yourself -because all I see is resentment envy and arrogance which I am pretty sure from personal experience is not representative of your countrymen - your country may be rich that is of no consequence to this discussion, which we share remember with people who belong to the richest country in the world. I suggest you calm down and address the issues you have in a more rational manner.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 06:30 PM

I think he's j0hn.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 07:30 PM

i wish they acting like my country man.
but they are more british than Kurdish, and they are changing my culture and traditions, wich i have spoken to them about it, but they dont care, all they interested in is money.

last thing ever im going to put here is (dont belive them they are not palying Kurdish music, and they know nothing about it, they are just some losers).

im living and i cant go on forever, i told you and think about it.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 05:57 AM

Hey Proud Kurdish pal, if your country is so rich WHY are you in my poor country ?

eric


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 06:08 AM

okay I'll buy it

lay on us a few spurious Kurd folk songs, oh proud one...


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 06:15 AM

Well I know Nahro and his music well, I dont think he would claim to play straight Kurdish traditional music. he's Kurdish, and he's a musician, and what he plays is his music. And he plays with western musicians too. Leave the poor lad alone, Nahro's playing his music, with his band, and trying to get gigs, same as anyone. Good for him.
    And anyway, who are you? JOhn from Hull?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 07:31 AM

I doubt they are changing your culture Guest, they may be applying it in a different way. In the UK it is not OUR culture to be seperatist or secular, some would say it is our downnfall particurlarly in keeping traditions alive, but on a more general level it is our saving grace and makes our multicultural society for the most part tolerant. I realise you come from a place where that has not happened before, but in part it makes life for you and I more tolerable. You will no doubt have come acros those who want to keep England English, who practise their brand of tradition, in a fist punch or a mouthful of abuse. Don't apply those values to yourselves and do not bad mouth your countrymen who want for the love of music, to integrate and learn about other cultures. It does not make them less proud of who they are, just as when I sing an Irish song or a Scottish ballad it makes me less English. Set your natonalistic arrogance aside and be as willing to learn as much about our culture as we want to learn about yours, which I can assure you we do. Most people here consider those musicians you talk about to be friends and proud to be Kurdish -isn't that the message you want to be spread?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 08:32 AM

It's not that long ago that it was Glasgow's turn to be the cultural capital ot the UK. What was that all about then?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 04:57 PM

Linda Kelly- i love irish and scotish people and the music. but those people are caliming they play kurdish music, i havent heard Kurdish music with east european music!? if you know what im talking about, and i will be very happy if they say we paly what we know, and not caliming they know it very well and they were proficionals in Kurdistan.

greg stephens- I dont think you know me, im every where, but not knowen to any others than Kurdish people. and i dont want to be knowen, im sorry.

eric the red- OH by god you are stuped.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 05:16 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/awards2005/worldmusicday.shtml


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 05:25 PM

So what is your solution??? are you saying they shouldn't play music at all? If people like what they play and they can earn money from it -what is the harm? The fact that it isn't authentic should not make any difference their ability or their musicianship andi nthe end people pay to hear what they like. I think it must be very frustrating for you, and I absolutely understand that you want to hang onto your cultural identity, and that is your right, but some of us just enjoy the music and you are wrong to criticize musicians who enjoy their music too, who want to bring it to us and perform it in their own way even if it isn't absolutely authentic as far as your concerned Music has its own frontiers -there is a version of Incy wincy Spider in virtually every country in Europe -it isn't German or English or Swiss its music. So please jion us in the wonderful music in and around Hull and please try to understand your musicians in a positive way. and yes, Eric the Red is stupid.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 05:29 PM

The most interesting thing about you, proud Kurdish Refugee, is that you chose Mudcat as a place to discuss Kurdish music? It is a great place to discuss it, and I am glad you have come here, as we are all very interested in folk music.
   Today I spent the day with Kurdish and other musicians in Stoke; we had a refugee event, to show the new Kurdish film "Turtles can fly", and to eat and listen to music. We all had a great time. it would have been interesting to hear what you thought of the Kurdish muscians.
   One of the musicians there, Kamran, was playing violin in the Kurdish Baq Band, but he also plays cello in the North Staffordshire Symphony Orchestra. Now, they certainly dont play Kurdish music!


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 06:39 PM

Linda: the gentleman is simply saying that he objects to people falsely presenting what they play as authentic Kurdish music. Now, that is his opinion; we don't know, because we don't know who he is, whether or not it is an informed opinion.We are not ourselves Kurds or experts on Kurdish music. Our opinions really are worth very little in the circumstances (Greg knows far more than you or I about the subject, and I notice that he has been careful to refrain from value judgements).

The fact that people may enjoy the music is not the point. The gentleman has not said in this discussion that it is bad music; only that he considers it to be, essentially, fake. He objects to people telling lies about what they are doing, and I see no call to criticise him for that, or to put words into his mouth.

Perhaps he is wrong. It isn't, after all, uncommon for -for example- Irish people, when confronted with genuine Irish music from a regional tradition they aren't familiar with (or, in some cases, that isn't Country and Western), to deny vehemently that it could possibly be Irish. I've known Spaniards from different regions come nearly to blows about the "only" right way of cooking lentils.

None of that means that he doesn't have a legitimate opinion; and it is not for us to say that he isn't right. We simply don't know.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: oombanjo
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 04:08 AM

The next time I go fishing I want this guy to partner me, cos, if he has cast bait on the water, he has you hook line and sinkered!!!!!
    Cheers Oombanjo. (Live music rules)


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 04:22 AM

Get real everyone, he's a TROLL.

eric


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 04:53 PM

Malcolm, with respect, I know some of musicians concerned -talented musicians and composers. He has labelled them losers and moneygrabbers at the expense of his culture - which part of this is not defamatory? we may not know if this is true or not, and that may not be for us to say whether it is right or not, but neither is it for him. If we were having the same argument about the Copper family
or Eliza Carthy being proper exponents of English Traditional music, then we would all have different opinions as to the true nature of English Folk music -who is to say which of us will be right. It is different strokes for different folk dependent on where you are coming from-I wouldnt dream of saying Eliza is not English and the Coppers are---why music from Kurdistan should be different I fail to understand.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 05:14 PM

I am as yet unclear where the original poster sets out an assertion that his objection is to people (who I think may actually be Kurds) who are playing music and creating art that is not wholly Kurdish. There are two possibilities: one is that they are falsely representing that what they do is traditional, and if so then that falsehood deserves condemnation, but the other is that they make no false representation, in which case I can understand that they might wish to innovate in their art, and I would not condemn that as such.

It's very like "folk" or not. I don't necessarily dislike contemporary acoustic music, and indeed play some because I like it, but I don't call it "folk". On the other hand I may take a "folk" song, and arrange it: it's still a "folk" song but it is no longer wholly a "folk" song - compare Steeleye Span innovating in the presentation of folk.

What would be wrong would be to say that there must never be any change to music or art, or that everyone must like all types equally, or some not at all. Either of those things would be just as worthy of rebuttal as their analogues in other political arenas.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 06:27 AM

The fact that PKR has identified Nahro Zagros as one of his targets puts these posts in the realm of legitimate criticism(if a bit hostile) rather than just some kind of TROLL stuff.
    Nahro is a cosmopolitaN Kurdish muscian, familiar with other idioms as well as traditional Kurdish music. he plays with mussicians from other cultures in his band, and likes Eastern European stuff, as well as Kurdish rad, and his own stuff. Some of the Kurdish people I knw play very hardline trad, some aspire to the ubiquitous Yamaha keyboard disco sound belved of modern emigre Middle Eastern musicians everywhere. These are all different kind of music. And, as I mentioned earlier, a friend of mine called Kamran plays cello in the No Staffs Symphony orchestra, and also very tra Kurdish in the Baq Band (it's pronounced Back, I may have the spelling wrong, I've not seen it written down).
    So, lots of people, lots of kinds of music. And PKR may have a point if some of the music is presented as Kurdish trad if it isnt. If a load of English refugees arrived in Kurdistan and started setting up bands there might be a bit of dispute too. Say the local folklore festival in Kirkuk put on an English band and said it was English folk music. And say the band was actually a straightforward 12-bar Saturday night pub blues band. Then you might well find the impeccable Copper style harmony group complaining bitterly if they didn't get the gig.
   What I find interesting, to change the subject, is the validity of my own value-judgements on Kurdish music. I have recorded loads of Kurdish singers, for example. Obviously, I started having opinions quite quickly about which ones I liked better than others. Do my opinions make any sense in Kurdish terms? For a start, I hadnt much clue who was in tune and who weren't, some of the scales are so wierd. And the amount of throbbing emotion used, another criterion, is I expect much more highly valued by most Kurds than it is by me. I know that one of the singers I've recorded stands out head and shoulders above the others, to me. But does he to the other Kurds...some, or all, of them? It is very intriguing. And helps you think about your own music too. I would seriously like a chat with you, Proud Kurdish refugee, your analysis of what is going on here would be very interesting.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 06:54 AM

At last some of you understand what im talking about.

if you are calling it folk. it should be Folk or not Folk,

i would love to keep intuch with all of you about Kurdish music or any other issue that effect Kurdish community. this is my emaile
qoz_kir@yahoo.com.

i will be back to answear greg stephens- Richard Bridge-Linda Kelly.

thanks for your time and your attention to Kurdish people and oure Folklore.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 05:46 PM

This is the first post I have made to thuis thread,
2 people (guest and Greg Stephens] said it was me, it wasn;t.


To the person that did start this thread-you aree a trouble maker, and why dont you just fuck off, you trued to make trouble on this thread, and the other thread [that i did start].

I know Nahro and Adalet, and consider them friends, and good musicians.
never heard of the other people you mention.
you say they dont play rel kurdish music, even if that was true, so waht?

I reckon your just jealous of them.



John Evans [jOhn from Hull]

if you like to talk to me about this, and prove your not a trouble maker, I work in the indian take away on Chanterlands Ave.
[if you dont know me, just ask for john]


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 05:49 PM

Proud Kurdish Refugee: you sugested in your other threads(list of messages) that I should listen to Zakariya, Hassan Sharif, Jala, and Diyar. I dont know any of those musicians, but I will certainly take your advice and try to hear them. Do you know where I could find their recordings, in England?
    I should be interested to know what you think of the following musicians, if you know them (I may have got spellings a bit wrong):
Adnan Karim(oud and singer)
Najmadin Gholami singer
Kamal Muhammed singer
(all in Sweden I think)

Ayub Ali singer in Birmingham
Tara Jaf
harp and singer in England
Goran oud in Holland
Khalid Sarkar clarinet(in London?)

Kamkaran group (in Iran, perhaps?).
What do you think of them, would you say they were good or bad?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 05:53 PM

Hi JOhn..we crossed posts. So who is this guy,eh? Interesting. I didnt really think it was you...but he did use the word "rubbish" so I think he's a follower of yours!


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicions & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM

not sure who he is, but he;s welcome to hull folk club to play some kurdish tunes.

about him saying the kurdish musicians in hull are only interested in making money, thats bullshit, they play in sessions, clubs etc for fun, not to make money.

and he says flamenco ted should mind is business and keep out of it,
Ted is Nahros friend, [and also friend of plenty of local kurdish musicians, ted gave his musical instrument to a kurdish refugee]
so dont say bad things about ted, [or nahro].


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:50 AM

A lot of people(including some on Mudcat) have quite loathsome attitudes to asylum seekers; so it's a nice thing the number of Kurdish (and other nationality) musicians who are currently playing in bands, making beautiful music, using instruments they have been given here by well-wishers. I would urge anyone who has unwanted instruments(or wanted instruments for that matter) to make them available to those in trouble who would like to play them,


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: oombanjo
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:15 PM

Time to stop feeding this donkey and let it go!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 05:55 PM

greg stephens- the singers you have listed some of them are very good specialy:-
1-Najmadin Gholami singer
2-Tara Jaf
3-Adnan Karim
4-Ayub Ali
**********
Kamal Muhammed havent heard of him
harp and singer in England havent heard of him
Goran oud in Holland
Khalid Sarkar clarinet(in London?)havent heard of them
Kamkaran group (in Iran, perhaps?). havent heard of them
------------------
about the singers i told you about you can get ther CD's at Bekhal shop, or if you want me to send some to you as a gift to listen to send me the address you want me to send the CD's i will galdly send you them.
------------------------------------------------------------------
John Evans [jOhn from Hull]
- if you really sow my face you would never say to me to fuck off and for saying that it show me what you are and what personality you have, just like your friends that you try to protect them from the truth. above all that im still not going to tell you to fuck off.OHHH god im not jealous of them i rather be a dog and not be like them.
------------------------------------------------------------------
oombanjo- you are a reall donky and a M****R F*****R, are you happy now? i didnt want to say that to you but you deserve it.
------------------------------------------------------------------
The only persone in here who is realistic and understanding is greg stephens, he wants to learn and listen and have a good information, and it is up to him after all if he wants to keep the advise or not,
but some of you dont want to even listen, it is like they have been brean washed. any way keep listening to who ever you want im still not a loser.

thanks for reading


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 07:06 PM

Blar, blar,blar
you talking rubbish, like a rubbish person, i talk to you in person exacly like i talk to you on mudcat.

anyway= something else about you = , you said " i know them in kurdistan, and you knoew waht job they do, and know there familys"


who gives a flying fuck waht job they do? !!!

in sessions and folk club s i go to, people have all sorts of jobs , from van driver to bank manager, we not interested in jobs, we interested in music, so just shut up.


another anyway=
waht therer family got to do whith it then?



wehn you play music with people, do you ask theirer job and family details first?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 07:26 PM

GUEST,jOhn- hey man, i dont care what thier familys were doing. my point was i know them long time ago, and i know what skilles they have. i dont care what their familys were doing.
i know the van driver, you mean Ted the one who was calling Kurdish people towel heads. and now he sayes he is a kurdish friend i know some of you very well.
some thing else, i didnt tell you how you are playing because is not my job or i know nothing about english music, so why you are shetting on your self for, im not talking about you!! "strenge".


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 08:01 PM

Ted is an architect, and
he never called anyone towel heads

.
ps, i'm in my freind house, [not ted, different freind, ], so i logged in, to prove it was me.


i still think your trying to make trouble, wht are you saying bad things about nahro etc?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 03:34 AM

Thanks for that jOhn, but I don't know why you bother dude. This fucking thread sums up the worst aspects of mudcat! I think I will abandon this pit of arseholes until this spyware bug is sorted out, and some of the Hullites come back to the forum.
I don't even believe this fucking wanker is a Kurd. Someone, probably from Hull, is pulling our chain jOhn.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 08:44 AM

F Ted: I am normally an efficient TTroll Spotter( I think), but I disagree with you here, I think our pal PKR is the real thing. I think his brand of English would be difficult to fake, even by the very talented Sir JOhn. You might say that his reference to oombanjo as a M***** F*****r is evidence that he is an aboriginal Hullite in disguise, but I know plenty of Kurds who are masters of English invective and perpared to use it! Anywaay, I am going to try and establish contact via email and see what's what...I will report back. The topic he raises, how people play their own folk music when transplanted to a completely new country, is so interesting that I think we should try and keep this chat going...
But please, Proud Kurdish refugee, if you want people to talk to you and listen to what you say, dont insult your fellow Kurdish musicians. They are doing their best. You can insult Sir JOhn, Flamenco Ted and oombanjo as much as you like, they are used to it. And it would also be good if you joined here as a member of Mudcat, then people could send you Personal Messages(PMs). If you can't understand the instructions, ask on this thread and someone will explain. And if you turn out to be Sir JOhn having a laugh, I will come round and curry you.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 12:38 PM

Ted- I know you very well i think and you live in oark grove. you have been calling Kurdish people towel heads, and you dropend from a play in a new years years ago at last minut to not play for kurdish people. and dont tell me that you didnt say that or did that, i know you. hey Ted im Kurdish, or you dont belive Kurdish people can use computers!! or we are towel heads and know nothing?
i dont care if you want to come to this room or not. that is tepical you just run away form the reality.
---------------------------------
Sir jOhn from Hull- you call your self a Sir, i can tell alot about your personality. i didnt insult Nahro or any body else im just saying they know nothing about Kurdish Filk music. i just insulted you because you did insult me first. or is it illigal to say some body is not a good musician!? im free to think what ever i want to think of. you dont desreve to chat to. because you know nothing really.
----------------------------------
greg stephens-no Mr. Greg im not JOhn. and im not insulting my country man but im telling you that when they claim that they play Kurdish folk music no they dont and they know nothing about it.
----------------------------------
who was the one who was saying that give your old instroment to a kurdish man! i want to ask: how many kurdish man play Gitar! mmmmm.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 03:58 AM

1)IF you are a Kurd, you don't know me.
2) I don't live in oak Grove.
3) I've never been in a "play"
4) The instrument I gave to Nahro was an Oud, not a guitar.

Close, but no cigar! Go away now please Troll.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 04:08 AM

The OUD


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 11:30 AM

flamenco ted belive me know you park grove. how many times did you see and Kurds Play Oud, the arabic instrument?
----------------------------------------------------


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: oombanjo
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 04:06 PM

I SAID IT ONCE BEFORE STOP FEEDING THE MONKEY AND HE WILL GO ELSWARE FOR HIS BANANAS


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Mar 05 - 06:16 PM

يو ئا فونني اومبانجو


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 05:14 AM

So who is PKR? I know where my money would go and I'm not normally a betting man but consider just two of his initials..................


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Flopsy Bunny
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 05:27 AM

He is NOT Peter Rabbit.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 11:05 AM

PKR: anybody who has the slightest knowledge f Kurds and their music know that plenty of Kurds play oud, and plenty of Kurds play guitar. Likewise violin. These instruments may not have been traditional to the area in the past, but they are popular now: much like violins in England.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 04:51 PM

greg stephens- I have lots of friends in fine art Instetute in Kurdistan some of them play Oud, violins, conter base, Saz, Drumes all kinds, Piano, etc. even some of the instrument i dont know what they are called in English. all sort of wetern, eastern instrument. but what im saying that i havent seen any of the Kurdish people play it in Hull.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Some more of my say is comming for all of you specialy for Mr.Ted,


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 05:18 PM

PKR you are talking out of your arse, you say one thing one minute and another the next, and you keep contradicting your self, you need to remember what you have said earlier, liars have to have good memories.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 08:46 PM

This Flamenco Ted who is a friend of Nahro and is a good man because he gave an instrument to an asylum seeker, is he the same Ted who used to call us all "a bunch of towel heads" when he did not think I knew English? If it is him I know him. And a rich man giving £5.00 to a charity is nothing special. Is he the Ted who tried to destroy an asylum seekers' Christmas party when he said he would not play 1 week before the party? He is not with the Kurdish people. Maybe he thinks people will think he is a good man if he plays music with foreign people.

Greg is right when he says people do not know what Kurdish music is. You can change English folk music because everyone knows what English folk music is. Most English people hear a Kurdish musician for the first time and they will think he is Kurdish music, they have not heard other Kurdish music. Our scales are different and we use more modulation in our singing and playing. Again Greg is right that English people do not know when someone is out of tune in Kurdish music. We do know and that is why I speak about the people in Hull who say they are Kurdish musicians.

When an asylum seeker comes to a new country he can invent a new history for himself. Some said they were doctors but they were not. Medicine is science and you can test people. Music is art and you can not test art. If I said I was a teacher at Baghdad University and played music in the best orchestra in Iraq many English people will believe me. If I play Kurdish music badly those people will think I am playing it well. Some Kurdish musicians in Hull say they are respected all over the world when they only started playing music when they came to England. Maybe their English friends have told them to lie about themselves because some English musicians want to play with Kurdish musicians because it makes them look good and makes money. These English say they are helping asylum seekers but they are never there for us when there is a problem. They are only there when there is a party and music. And we know that one of the Kurdish "musicians" in Hull even changed his name when he came to England. You see how an asylum seeker can become a new person very easily?

Believe me, you are dealing with phoney people who have got jobs because they made friends with English people who are musicians. They do not even mix with other Kurdish people anymore, only when they are paid for playing at a party.
**************
End of the story.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 04:41 AM

This thread is not helping anyone, its time to close it.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 05:16 AM

PKR: why is your English much better in your latest post?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in H
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 05:18 AM

Ihave beleived so far that PKR is genuine. Now I am not so sure, I think he is Flamenco Ted.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Oaklet
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 07:26 AM

100!


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 08:05 AM

Realio - you're it!


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 04:51 PM

becuse i have been writing this for 2 weeks and making sure that every body will understan it, you still think Kurdish people are stuped and cannot write English.

thank you.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Oaklet
Date: 13 Mar 05 - 06:06 PM

And we've all being hanging on to your every word. Is it only two weeks? Oh my giddy aunt!


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 05:06 AM

We don't think Kurdish people are stupid but you are if you think we believe the shit you write, Proud Kurd my arse.

eric


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 12:05 PM

اكل خرة يا ابن لعاهرة يا اولاد الناقصات يا وجوة الضفدع بطونكم منفوخة و عقولوكم فارغة و شرفكم مفتوح لاي واحد يا اهل الطبل و المزمار


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 12:07 PM

With noodles or rice?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 06:47 PM

This threwad is pissing me off, I know Ted and Nahro, i wonder who is making this bullshit thread?

I
it is making all hull people suspicious, ie= I even thought is it Grweg Stephens?, [he saying "greg is good, Greg knows all about this stuff etc, "greg is the only nice man on this thread etc"}

now i know its not grweg, but greg thinks its Ted, it isent, why would Ted say bad stuff about his self then?


Its some bullshit bastard with a grudge against Ted [and Haro, [and me],
i talked to ted, and he used to live in Park Grove, [not Oak Grove],
and i didn;t know that till he told me, .
So that means it is someone who ted knows, but had an argue with or something, and he deciceded to case trouble, ["ted is rich, but only giv 5 pound to kurdish music charity etc"]


anyway=whoever startede this thread= fuck off and get lost, and stop trying to make trouble.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:09 PM

please close this thread, its a load of trouble making bullshit,
anyway=
i heard that they can find out who it is, beasece of every time people post, therir phone number goes to mudcat, so geff and joe and max can see it, but not others, if so, then please say who it is.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:40 PM

who was ivor bigginin?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 07:47 PM

who cares?
don't drag up shit from the past, the ivor bigging stuff is closed.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 06:00 AM

i love you john. i think you are right and i talk shit.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 12:22 PM

hey dont use my name and tell John i love you or any shet. who ever you are.

heu john i dont care if you want to know my phone number. wow you scared me! hahahaha

hey John you are full of shet you are pushing your self n#into it, i dont know you at all and i dont care to know who you are,

No body ever will know me .


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Oaklet
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 01:40 PM

I'm not bloody surprised, the way you carry-on.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 02:19 PM

If Saddam Hussein married Miss Muffet would he let the Kurds have their way?


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: oombanjo
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 04:21 PM

Should this .urd be spelt with a T. and flushed. there is onlY one way to stop this, as I said earlier, FLUSH THE .URD. DON'T POST AND ITS GONE.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 04:27 PM

And every time you say that it comes floating back up again. Duhhhhhhh.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 05:30 PM

I dont know why you people want to stop me saying what i want to say or what i feel, if you dont want to know the truth dont listen.
-----------------------------------
Sttaw Legend- Saddam is gone Saddam did to Kurds what Natzis did to Jows. saddam did that to Kurds because we are that kind of people who wants the truth and justice. we say what we fell is right every where. in this case some of people are actting like saddam and wants to stop me talk and tell the truth. but hey saddam couldnt stop us talking so you have to forget about keeping me quiate.
-----------------------------------
Oaklet- you welcome my friend.
-----------------------------------
I have been kicked out of Iraq because i have a big mouth,
i thought this is the land of free speach and freedom.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 06:13 PM

kurd, fuck off back where you came from


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 06:18 PM

GUEST Hey man Im staying here if you like it or not, so it is your problem and you have to live with it.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 08:54 PM

Some of you foreigners swear worse than Hull women. You should be ashamed of yourselves.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz kir@yahoo.com
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 09:07 AM

Pulled Boy- i dont know what you are talking about.
any way if we swear in English that means that we have learned how to from people like you. also i understan why you been resist or i better call it your love to your country as i dont think people who dont like us are resist that show me how much you people love your country and i respect you, you have a right to not be happy when im in your country. but some of you Pulled Boy dont understand who you been resist you just think that we get every thing for free or some other shet, but hey let me tell you be carful of eastern Europeans as they are a bit dudgy, and i havent told them to come to UK, at the moment we have been effected by eastern Europeans, Kurdish people are losing thier jobs because of them i support you and we are with you.
-------------------------------------
Kurdish people are good for UK as they are all working whene ther is job and pay tax and INI for your people. we are helping UK at the seam time UK is helping uk we thank UK and the people of UK.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hull
From: GUEST,Proud Kurdish refugee qoz_kir@yahoo.com
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 09:32 AM

Pulled boy - you will know me in the street of Hull becaus i have a large pointy head were i keep my underpants on.


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Subject: RE: Review: Spurious Kurdish musicians & Art in Hu
From: GUEST,Proud Curd cheese.cake@ yah...com
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 10:08 AM

I'm a bit lemony with a puff pastry crust.
    OK, I think it's time to close the thread. If you want a serious discussion of Kurdish music, that's fine. If you want to squabble about personal differences, take it somewhere else.
    -Joe Offer-


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