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Brand new folksongs available

joeler 14 Aug 99 - 05:01 PM
Art Thieme 15 Aug 99 - 08:46 AM
Art Thieme 15 Aug 99 - 08:49 AM
Allan C. 15 Aug 99 - 09:15 AM
Allan C. 15 Aug 99 - 09:41 AM
Bill D 15 Aug 99 - 12:43 PM
Rick Fielding 15 Aug 99 - 04:27 PM
bbelle 15 Aug 99 - 06:17 PM
Llanfair 15 Aug 99 - 06:36 PM
bob schwarer 15 Aug 99 - 06:39 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 15 Aug 99 - 06:40 PM
HaHa 15 Aug 99 - 06:50 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Aug 99 - 06:50 PM
Bill D 15 Aug 99 - 07:10 PM
Allan C. 15 Aug 99 - 08:03 PM
Bill D 15 Aug 99 - 08:10 PM
Roger in Baltimore 15 Aug 99 - 09:29 PM
Paddy 15 Aug 99 - 10:10 PM
Bill D 15 Aug 99 - 10:18 PM
bbelle 15 Aug 99 - 10:22 PM
Art Thieme 15 Aug 99 - 10:58 PM
katlaughing 15 Aug 99 - 11:39 PM
Mike Regenstreif 16 Aug 99 - 12:12 AM
Jeri 16 Aug 99 - 01:20 AM
bseed(charleskratz) 16 Aug 99 - 02:50 AM
Sandy Paton 16 Aug 99 - 04:55 AM
JR 16 Aug 99 - 01:06 PM
Richard Bridge 16 Aug 99 - 02:17 PM
Liam's Brother 16 Aug 99 - 03:21 PM
Bill D 16 Aug 99 - 04:07 PM
Llanfair 16 Aug 99 - 04:25 PM
Bert 16 Aug 99 - 04:26 PM
harpgirl 16 Aug 99 - 04:55 PM
Art Thieme 16 Aug 99 - 05:11 PM
Liam's Brother 16 Aug 99 - 05:14 PM
joeler 16 Aug 99 - 05:15 PM
harpgirl 16 Aug 99 - 05:19 PM
Bill D 16 Aug 99 - 05:34 PM
Jeremiah McCaw 17 Aug 99 - 03:00 AM
Art Thieme 17 Aug 99 - 10:51 AM
Bert 17 Aug 99 - 11:05 AM
catspaw49 17 Aug 99 - 11:43 AM
Rick Fielding 17 Aug 99 - 11:54 AM
wildlone 17 Aug 99 - 03:35 PM
wildlone 17 Aug 99 - 03:41 PM
Liam's Brother 17 Aug 99 - 03:56 PM
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Subject: Brand new folksongs available
From: joeler
Date: 14 Aug 99 - 05:01 PM

I have a tape of a lot of new songs I have written and publicly performed. If you would like one email me at jwise27451@aol.com. It's two dollars for my tape cost and shipping to anywhere in U.S. If you like any song I will be happy to send you lyrics and chords. Why am I doing this? To communicate with people who like folk music.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 08:46 AM

Hey, kid, your title components for this thread are, in themselves, quite incompatible. Like matter and anti-matter---they disqualify, negate, eradicate, annihilate and effectively obliterate each other. I really don't mean any disrespect. Many here would agree with you that what you've written are folksongs. And those folks know (or should know) that my tongue is firmly lodged in my cheek when I said what I did. All I can say is PLEASE try to look up (at some point in your searching) for the academic meanings of the study of folksongs over the last several centuries. Very few folksongs are new songs.

I mean this to be taken with good humor and a real hope that you might discover the treasure trove that delving into the depths of musical history can be. And the best of luck with your career in music. I really do mean that. I hope sincerely that you will be the very next Bob Dylan or Madonna!

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 08:49 AM

I meant to say "Lady Madonna".


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Allan C.
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 09:15 AM

Thanks, Art. I had nearly bitten all the way through my tougue.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Allan C.
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 09:41 AM

Oops. I see that I accidentally inverted the "n" in tongue.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 12:43 PM

....and I am building antique furniture in my shop...anyone want a desk that vaguely resembles Chippendale?

seriously, joely, you MAY may be writing some good songs...but around here you gotta use a little discretion about what you call them....


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 04:27 PM

I have it on good authority that half-bitten tongues produce astonishing tremolos on the harmonica.

Rick (who has never bitten through his behind, but HAS been called "half-assed")


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: bbelle
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 06:17 PM

You are exhibiting folk-snobbery to the nth degree! This is precisely what keeps people "out" and I'm embarrassed for you. You were young, once, and just starting out and I hope you were treated with more respect that you have treated joely in this thread. You owe him/her an apology. If this is what you're "about," perhaps you should form an elite group consisting only of those who are expert in the definition of the word "folk." I thought better of you and am seriously wondering if the FSGW Getaway, or any other festival, is the place for me because I'll be so uptight about whether what I'm singing falls under YOUR definition of "folk." ... moonchild


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Llanfair
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 06:36 PM

Right on, moonchild, I expressed much the same feeling in joely's other thread. I'm looking forward to hearing his music (He signed himself Joel) Hwyl, Bron.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: bob schwarer
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 06:39 PM

Hey! If the "folk" go for it, then it's "folk".

It's a good thing we're not close with brickbats.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 06:40 PM

Joely, just ignore the comments above: these people are old grouches who think their gray hair gives them a right to pontificate--definitely a folkish concept, perhaps a reaction to the fact that we old coots aren't allowed to pontificate in the real world, only in this tiny segment of it. And grouchy though they may be, all the grouches above are really warm, funny, welcoming people: you just touched a nerve there--this is an argument that crops up from time to time bringing out a lot of knee-jerk responses (there are knee-jerks on both sides of the issue, of course, except for me; my opinions are always well considered). --seed


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: HaHa
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 06:50 PM

Shades of Dylan going electric! I listen to a lot of "Indian classical" as well as other "world" music. It's all pretty much "folk" to me. To steal from Alan Andrews [Folk Music], it's "not the music: it's the folk." :-)


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 06:50 PM

Not only are there knee-jerks, there are others with no knees. To be old should not disqualify one from being right. Modern acoustic (or non-rock, non-classical) music may be splendid. But it ain't folk music. The definition is there. It is functionless to pretend that it isn't.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 07:10 PM

*shaking my head sadly*...I guess I AM too old to maintain 'just' the right amount of political correctness to keep a point alive and not appear a total snob...*sigh* I have said SO many times that I DO listen to, and sing-- 'new' songs, I just have an opinion about nomenclature. If I have to type 6 paragraphs of explanation every time I try to make the point with some semi-humorous remark, I surrender...and if Joel(y) is so thin-skinned that a couple of smart-alec remarks for a couple of old codgers like Art & myself are horribly intimaidting, then he is SURE in the wrong business...(I suspect he will prove NOT to be intimidated) and I AM certainly sorry if he IS offended...If I had been talking face-to-face, it would have been easy to convey a wry opinion without offensive overtones...I guess I just hurried my comments too much....

Moonchild...I am not very good at abject contrition when I meant very little by the remark in the first place...but I assure you, NEVER would I make fun of you, your music, your choice of songs, or your degree 'folk-purity'...I hope that you simply come to the Getaway and participate in the joy and fellowship, knowing that songs of ALL sorts will be sung all weekend...*smile*..I'd be glad to chat with you privately about this, if you should wish...but I'd rather just greet you as a friend sing with you...


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Allan C.
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 08:03 PM

Joel, the adjective, "knee-jerk" just about half covers it. I have spent today thinking a lot about what I mean when I use the term folk music. I suppose my brain has somehow always interconnected folk music with traditional music. This connection sits in the forefront of my thoughts regarding this particular genre of music. However, upon reflection, I see that my terminology is not backed up by what I actually include within the songs in my notebook of "folk songs". Those songs, regardless of age, are songs of the people - songs which tell the story, paint the picture, impart the emotion in a way that has a particular "feel" to them.

My notebook has songs which have been passed around from country to country for so long that nobody knows their true origin. It has songs which originated in the Old World but were rewritten in the New. There are also songs from the Great Depression; songs whose authors have only recently died. But there are also "folky-sounding" songs written or sung by much more recent artists including Paul Simon, John Phillips, Lucy Kaplansky, and Anita Silvert.

So, it becomes obvious to me that the evidence of what I collect as "folk music" does not really support what I claim to think of as folk music.

What it boils down to, Joel, is that I am offering you an apology. You have made a very generous offer of some music you have created and I have gotten in your way and have foolishly put my foot where it doesn't belong. I hope you will forgive me. I also hope you will forgive me in that I neglected to welcome you to the Mudcat. I see that you have only recently arrived and I feel all the worse for having behaved in this way. We are not all as stodgy as I have made myself to appear. I hope you will stick around. I am sure you have much to contribute.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 08:10 PM

and my comments are in the OTHER thread..*grin*


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 09:29 PM

So, Bill D.,

Perhaps what you need is to store your basic reply in some Word Processor document that you can convert to a thread post when this topic comes up again. And it will come up again. Then you could really take some time and maybe do all three pages, see? And then you could just whip it out (oops, bad choice of words) whenever necessary.

I suppose I am just enough of an old codger to appreciate your "old codger"ness. But I wouldn't want you to wear your fingers to the nubs whenever this discussion comes up.

I sure do like "folk music", but I do sometimes wonder what it is. I cut my teeth on Kingston Trio, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Chad Mitchell Trio, and all of their ilk during the "folk scare" in the sixties. I remember people saying these performers weren't "ethnic" enough. I thought that mean't they weren't doing Pete Seeger's version of songs.

Now, as I expand my horizons, I find that these "folk" were ripping off performers from the Harry Smith Anthologies and places like that.

I volunteer at the "Folkal Point" and hardly a "traditional" artist passes through. I sing and play whatever I like and call myself "An Entertainer in the Folk Tradition". I think that means that most of the introductions are longer than the songs. Yep, I am one confused dude.

What I learned in the 60's as folk music was really just folk-based popular music. What I listen to quite a bit now is folk-based contemporary acoustic music. Most of these performers write their own songs. But I also listen to Son House (who wrote his own songs?) and I think of his music as "folk music" in the blues idiom.

I still like the idea of time as a filter to eliminate the good from the bad and to scuff the rough edges in tune and lyric off the song. Audio-recording really ruined this process. It was bad enough when people like Child were writing it down.

Joel, welcome to the Mudcat. It is actually quite a nice place. I don't know if you have been "lurking" on the site for a while. I see you have posted a few times starting a couple of weeks back.

I suspect some of the reaction you have received has been from a certain impetuousness I perceive on your part. If I went to a party where I did not know anyone, I would take some time to get to know them before I decided they might want to hear "my songs". If you spend some time on this site you will find a great deal of knowledge goes along with these "opinions" you have encountered. I have spent a significant portion of the last forty years listening to, learning, and performing something called "folk music". And I am just a puppy compared to others here. A goodly number of Mudcatters have earned their living singing and playing this music.

So, you come off like the brash young upstart with your offer of a tape of your songs. Several people have posted songs they have written when they seemed to fit the discussion on a thread. Because they were in context, they were well accepted.

Again, welcome. When I was in the service the Quartermaster Sergeant kept a stack of 3 X 5 cards on his desk that he would hand out when people made requests that were out of line. On the cards were printed the words, "You must be new!". I suspect Joel, that you must be new also and you just stepped over whatever stands for good manners here. In return, some of us stepped over the welcome mat and may have singed your pride. I suspect all will heal. I hope you accept the apologies offered.

Moonchild,

I have met a few of these folks face-to-face and played a little bit of music with them. Their music interests vary widely. I went to a "Drinking Songs" workshop and ended up singing the jingle for "Ovaltine". It was more than tolerated. Everyone old enough to know the words joined in. Come to the Getaway. You won't regret it.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Paddy
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 10:10 PM

The discussion on this thread has been heartwarming. Tis a grand thing indeed to folk-up, 'fess-up, and keep on lovin' and livin'. After all, who are we but mere mortals just passing thru time.

Just in case it needs saying, i'm not trying to be clever with "folk-up". I don't really see an error or goof that would qualify as what might seem an obvious metaphor. I see thoughtful, sensitive people having a thoughtful andsensitive conversation around the hearth. It's the way we all learn and love.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 10:18 PM

awww...thank you, Roger, for putting things in pretty good perspective...if I could say half the things I do, half as thoughtfully as you, I would be in half as much trouble...


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: bbelle
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 10:22 PM

I've used the term "folk-snobbery" more than one time in the past couple of years, as it threatened to rear its head, but it never got quite to the point that it did in this thread, and it stepped on my last nerve. Since no one has offered the absolute definition of the word "folk" as it relates to folk music, I will no longer refer to myself as a folksinger, but as a singer of acoustic music, whether it be from the annals of public domain or from the brilliant mind of Gillian Welch or even (g-d forbid) Carly Simon, whose earlier songwriting I liked very much and played and sang it. I don't think private conversations are necessary on this subject ... y'll offered your opinions and I offered mine. Enough said. Subject closed. moonchild


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 10:58 PM

BBBAAAAANNNNNNGGG!

Is there the sound of one door slamming---if there's nobody in the forest to hear it?

As Bill said after the bombing ceased, "No offense intended."

Art


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Aug 99 - 11:39 PM

Serious question: what did they call Woody's music when it was new?


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 12:12 AM

There are no easy answers to the ol' "what is folk music?" debate. The arugument's been going on a lot longer than the 30 or so years that I've been been following it. One of the things to keep in mind is that some people's definition of folk music is an academic one relating to oral traditions while others define it by what goes on in the folk scene (coffee houses, festivals, etc,).

Most people I know -- including those who know the difference -- don't really care and just appreciate good songs, good musicians, etc. without worrying too much about folk authenticity.

For example, while Folk Legacy, Sandy and Caroline Paton's record company, is primarily thought of as a traditional folk music label, they've also recorded any number of contemporary singer-songwriters like Bill Staines, Jim Ringer, Rosalie Sorrels, Gordon Bok, etc. (Of course, all of those songwriters I just named have a strong understanding of traditional folk songs.)

And try defining who's the folksinger from this scenario...

Singer A learns a song from a record and goes and sings it at Carnegie Hall.

Singer B absorbs a song from hearing his father sing it hundreds of times and he sings it in the kitchen while cooking dinner.

The temptation is to suggest that Singer B is the folksinger.

But what if I said that Singer A is Doc Watson and the song is "Shady Grove" and that Singer B is Frank Sinatra, Jr. and the song is "Strangers In the Night."

Like I said, no easier answers.

Mike Regenstreif


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 01:20 AM

I've had this argument a gazillion times, and I'll probably have it a gazillion more. It isn't snobbery to correct someone's improper use of a word, it's pedantry. Saying someone's music isn't really 'folk' isn't saying it's bad music, or unacceptable. The oldest song you can think of was new at some time.

I completely agree with the dictionary and the pedants (N.O.I., I R 1) about the use of the word. I also like a lot of contemporary accoustic music. The oldest song you can think of was new at some time.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 02:50 AM

I kinda thought it was pronounced Joe-Ellie, and figured the person for a woman. Now don't all you mean guys feel guilty? --seed


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 04:55 AM

I see no reason to feel guilty, seed. The discussion has been about nomenclature, not about the quality of anyone's music. I've spent some forty-five years collecting traditional songs and ballads in the field, researching their history, and, when I could afford it, releasing them on records. At the same time, my wife and I sing a slew of "contemporary" songs that we feel can stand proud and tall among the traditional ones. As Mike has pointed out above, most of the songmakers we have recorded have been strongly influenced by traditional balladry, but that merely reflects our preferences.

The problem here, to my way of thinking, is that the term "folk song" has, in present usage, come to mean a number of things that are entirely different from its classical, or academic meaning. I recall reading, many years ago, a statement made by Bruno Nettl in which he insisted that the one essential factor in defining a folk song is that it is always in a state of flux, changing as it is passed around through oral transmission. Look, for example, at the hundreds of versions of Barbara Allen. They demonstrate the process that creates what we call a folk song. This may happen quickly, over some geographic distance, or slowly, over a long period of time, but until this process has taken place (according to the established academic definition) the song in question is not truly a folk song. It may be a wonderful song, it may express our human concerns in a moving and beautiful way, as do many of our traditional songs, it may even reflect their structure and their style, but we really ought to have a different name for it. "Folk song" has already been taken.

However, I realize that our language is also in flux. Words lose their old meanings and acquire new ones. Through widespread, if erroneous, common usage, the meaning of the term "folk song" has been changing over the past several decades. Unfortunately, it has yet to settle into a commonly accepted definition. Tell a group of people that you are about to sing a "folk song," and you may find yourself facing as many interpretations of the term as there are people in the group. When a word has so many different meanings to so many people, it is, for all practical purposes, meaningless. And 'tis there that we find the rub.

Joel: the reaction to your use of "folksong" in describing your songs demonstrates the problem quite clearly. Count all the varying definitions offered in this thread. If a whole paragraph is necessary to explain what one means every time one uses a particular word, I think that word is no longer useful as a communicative tool. And I think that this entire discussion has been stimulated by just that problem, and has had nothing to do with the quality of your songs.

Moonchild: The FSGW is far from elitist! Many of them write songs and sing them in their song-swaps to the delight of their peers. (Ask Carly and Dean to sing their splendid parody "I'd Falsify Taxes with You" when you meet them at the Getaway.) This is a wonderful group of people who love to sing together. They may distinguish between a "folk song" and a "contemporary song," but they sing the good ones of both genres with skill and genuine enthusiasm. You'll love 'em!

Sandy (resident folk fogey)


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: JR
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 01:06 PM

Main Entry: folk song Function: noun Date: 1847 : a traditional or composed song typically characterized by stanzaic form, refrain, and simplicity of melody.

stanzaic.. a division of a poem consisting of a series of lines arranged together in a usually recurring pattern of meter and rhyme.

Joely, I continue to believe the songs that I (and you) write are folk songs. They may not be traditional (or even good) but mine seem to fall into Webster's definition. I don't think theres a need to filter a song through a couple generations of hill people to turn a song into a folk song.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 02:17 PM

http://www.mudcat.org/Detail.CFM?messages__Message_ID=94785


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 03:21 PM

It's not every day that one reads Bruno Nettl's name... anywhere. Way to go, Sandy!

What is folk song? There is no mystery or debate about it. Folk song is the representative expression of a community, almost always the work of an unknown composer, work that has been transmitted aurally during which time text and melody that have been altered,B> as successive singers have both consciously and unconsciously reshaped the song. Hence Art's apprehension at the title of this thread.

What is contemporary song? Presumably, the kind of songs Joely writes.

Is this a value statement? No.

Using the academic definition assures that everybody is talking about the same thing. That's good.

All the best,
Dan


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 04:07 PM

thanks, Dan...but, as you see, when asking people to use the acedemic definition so that we may refer to the same thing, the answer is so often, "I don't wanna! I wanna call it what I wanta call it"...and there is no arguing with that.

What I do for a semi-living is woodturning...I work with exotic woods from all over the world at times, and I constantly struggle with those folk who want to use some 'common' name to sell me a piece of wood, and get huffy when I tell them that is NOT 'Rosewood', for example..."Oh, it's Bolivian Rosewood", they say...Sorry- there IS no Rosewood in Bolivia, that is 'Striped Caviuna'...dealers would call EVERYTHING by half a dozen 'interesting' names if they could...'Rosewood' sells, 'Caviuna' does not..I hear 'South American' Walnut, and 'Queensland Walnut'...and it ain't Walnut. Few people are willing to even ADMIT that the scientific name is relevant, much less USE it...too much trouble!..

and I'm sure that many people have similar stories in THEIR profession..


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Llanfair
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 04:25 PM

Gosh, this discussion just goes on and on,
I'll tell you what folk music ISN'T.
It isn't opera (unless penned by Kurt Weil). It isn't pop. (Well, "All around My Hat" got into the charts, didn't it?, and so did a lot of Dylan). It certainly isn't......dare I post it?
Yes!!! What the hell!!!!COUNTRY AND WESTERN!!!!!!!
WHEW!!!!!!
Well, it's better out than in!! Hwyl, Bron.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Bert
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 04:26 PM

I have to agree with Bill D on this. In fact I would go as far as saying that, in future, Mudcatters should refer to 'Folk Style' songs as 'Striped Caviuna' ;-)

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: harpgirl
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 04:55 PM

...brand new folksongs is an oxymoron isn't it? harpgirl


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Art Thieme
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 05:11 PM

By God, I've got a beautiful striped caviuna coat (not to be confused with BIG CAHOONA which means something else completely.) Wait a minute, I thought I was in that other thread. Where the hell am I? I gotta get out o' here! It's too hot in here for a caviuna coat anyhow.

And I do know that some think a striped caviuna is nothing but a diminished ZEBRA---so leave me alone!

ROSEWOOD? Don't we really mean ROSEBUD! Alas, what better word to denote the dumbing down of our definitions. Every times a rosebud falls, an angel loses his wings and plunges to earth. But it's a "wonderful life" anyhow.

Love,

Art


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 05:14 PM

How did Entree ever get to mean Main Course (in the USA) rather than Appetizer? How did that ever happen?

I hear you, Bill. I'm sure for anyone dealing with wood it would be a lot easier to call a board Bolivian Rosewood rather than Striped Caviuna. If it has similar properties, it is somewhat descriptive also. However, I would hate to spend the extra $1,000 to $2,000 on what I might think was a "South American Rosewood" instrument and find out I'm plucking on Bolivian Striped Caviuna.

...and, Bill, is that Chippendales or Chip 'N' Dales?

Let's do this. People who don't want to use the academic definition can keep calling whatever they want folk songs and "old fogies" can keep up their "pedantic" "pontifications" by correcting. At least we got to make our point again.

All the best (really),
Dan


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: joeler
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 05:15 PM

I no longer sing or write folksongs. I am now a woodsong songwriter. I hope there is no oxymoron here.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: harpgirl
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 05:19 PM

...don't you mean woodshed songwriter? *smile* !! Hey Joel, download Mediaring and send those songs out pronto by voice mail. I might want to sing one of them...harpgirl


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 05:34 PM

hey! great...write 'em, I'll sing 'em if I like 'em...might even buy 'em..*smile*...I like songs about wood...

(and Dan, since real 'guitar' Rosewood from Brazil..(Dalbergia nigra) is now illegal to export, there IS a serious problem with dealers trying to re-name some 2nd rate woods "X" rosewood in hopes that gullibility will make them some money...Santos Rosewood is another name that is used)..


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 17 Aug 99 - 03:00 AM

"I guess all songs is folk songs; I never heard no horse sing 'em." - Woody Guthrie

The esteemed Mr Fielding told me this debate had reared its ugly head. *sigh* Not only do it make my brown eyes blue; it also makes my ass tired. :-)

Folk music, traditional music, contemporary folk music urban folk music, acoustic music, etc.

Now look folks, and get this straight - there's only one way to handle this - it requires a minimum of 5 people, 7 is better. Gather yourselves in a good pizzaria, have a respectable quantity of cold beer at hand, and go to 'er. There will be debate, at some point degenerating into arguement. Passions will flare, but with any luck there will be no knockdown-dragouts. With fortune you will realize how much EVERYbody cares about this music we love, no matter how broad (or narrow) the parameters you apply to the term.

Go. Make yerselves crazy. Enjoy.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Aug 99 - 10:51 AM

I realize that many feel a zebra is just a striped horse and not a striped caviuna at all, but I never heard no zebras singing.

A zebra is an extremely L-A-R-G-E female, upper torso garment. That doesen't make a cobra one for a small person. It makes a cobra an upper torso female garment for siamese twins. But all that aside, many here would say that that's just a horse of a different color. Others would say I'm just stallion for time so this mess can blow over. All I can tell ya is that I've got a bad summer colt right now---and I promise to not be divisive any mare. (I'll also work on my spelling.)

Moonunit---peace! (O.K.?) I realize we're not an item any more, but us makin' peace (in public at least) will, in the long run, probably be better for the kids who depend on us for their definitions.

Enough horsing around too. I have been around the track too many times for this kind of display right out in the open for the world to see. I'm gonna loosen up my jockey shorts and get out o' the saddle right now! Folks, I didn't mean to stirrup so much trouble. I know in these situations there are no whinnyers or losers. It wasn't meant to be a grandstand play. And it wasn't much of an adition to my Mudcat track record either. Right now, I'm gonna go and call my mudder--even though I know it's a longshot that she'll be home. (She's been dead for 20 years. My fodder too.) But I'm in need of a consolation prize even though it's not impressive to have nothing to show for my efforts. But Broonzy's horse is one that needs to be destroyed. Off to the glue factory, old horse. You've served us well!

Art


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Bert
Date: 17 Aug 99 - 11:05 AM

and we say so, and we know so


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Aug 99 - 11:43 AM

Well Art, you had a good bit to say and you lunged right at it with unbridled eloquence. Any attempt by one of us withers in comparison about the mane point to which you spoke and I get a bit(again) sulkie when we cannot trot out anything to keep pace with your headlong gallop. You've obviously got the old feedbag on and are feeling your oats, if not eating them. You're a cinch and a shoe in to win the pun award as long as you don't rein yourself in. For awhile I thought you had stalled as many of your posts were very stable. Some may condemn you for this off-track tack, but I say neigh, give him his head and we'll trail along collecting the horseshit.

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH Enough, I can't take it...............

AND BERT: Cute song, but I really like the Amazon banner at the top: "POWER SEARCH FOR THE DEAD HORSE"......Power search? For a dead horse? Uh, WHY???

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Aug 99 - 11:54 AM

Jeremiah, do you mean "Pizza" as we know it in Canada? Now New York Pizza, Ummm Boy! Still called "pizza" mind you, but to my ears (oops, I mean taste buds) much more satisfying. Then of course there's Chicago-deep-dish pizza...deeper, and in a dish. Contemporary urban pizza leaves me cold though - all those stupid little broccolis, sun drieds, and goat cheeses...

And listen up!! It was Broonzy who first did the "Horse Alert" and I never ever ever want to hear about it again!

Nice playing on the show last night. See, everyone can improvise...if they're forced to!

Rick


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: wildlone
Date: 17 Aug 99 - 03:35 PM

Songs written by Ewan McColl,Bob Segger,Bill Meek& Eric Bogle have been called traditional in songbooks & have been released by others as such.Or is it that only established names can write Folk.


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: wildlone
Date: 17 Aug 99 - 03:41 PM

Sorry have been awake for 18 hours that should be Pete Seeger not Bob


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Subject: RE: Brand new folksongs available
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 17 Aug 99 - 03:56 PM

Ewan MacColl was a big favorite of mine. I got to meet him on a couple of occasions. We corresponded and he, very kindly, contributed a traditional song that he had collected, "The Campanero," when I was putting together my book of folk songs: The Bonnie Bunch of Roses. I have immense respect for the great body of work he produced. Certain of his songs were very consciously composed to be in the folk idiom and are very well-done folk-styled songs. I'm sure some of them are passing into tradition. I consider other of his songs to be topical songs and still more to be contemporary songs.

All the best,
Dan


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