Mudcat Café message #3796075 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #160019   Message #3796075
Posted By: Teribus
16-Jun-16 - 10:09 AM
Thread Name: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
"The Labour position is ....... that the EU is far from perfect, badly needs reforms ....... The only way to do anything effective towards bringing the needed changes about ......... is to stick in and work together with friends in other countries."

All well and good, but the track record of the EU has shown that to be EU-speak that just kicks the can another mile, or should that be 1.6 kilometres, down the road. The EU will never reform itself it has had more than enough time and way too many chances to do so already. The EU Commissioners (An unelected body) will never relinquish their power, just as they will never actually produce an audited record of their finances. None of the member states have ever been able to change the direction of this juggernaut by working from inside and the plain truth is that we voted to join on the false promise that we were joining a trade block, not some corrupt political scheme to create a United States of Europe.

By the way when it comes down to the "nitty-gritty" this whole referendum actually is:

"a squabble between people on one side saying the EU is the work of the devil, and those who say it's a resounding success."

IN or OUT is what is being decided, not the best way of bringing about change to the EU.

I can remember Tony Blair toddling over to Brussels to barter away a large chunk of the UK rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher and coming back with a reduced UK rebate on the premise that the Common Agricultural Policy was to be revised and gradually dispensed with altogether. We immediately got the reduced rebate while the CAP remained in place and intact exactly as it had been before - because it didn't sit well with France.

As for immigration, there is no way that Brexit will significantly reduce it.

Do you honestly mean to tell us that being able to say No and being able to turn people round on landing and returning them will not reduce immigration? Tell me Kevin which entity has the longer border the EU or the UK? If we are in the EU anyone making across the borders into the EU and are accepted as asylum seekers in the EU can then quite legally come to the UK. If we are not in the EU then that cannot happen. Same goes for economic migrants, etc. If we are not in the EU we get to say who comes in and we get to say who can stay.

"The way to respond to it is to provide help for communities where services are overloaded by it, and also by working through the EU to reduce the factors that drive people to leave the countries they love to go and work elsewhere."

Going that route you will always never have enough and the standard of services will regress and diminish. To reduce the factors you speak of means exporting jobs and pouring money into a massive multi-nation building programme in the countries that the USSR destroyed between 1945 and 1991 on the sole condition that their populations stay put - no freedom of movement in the Warsaw Pact.