Mudcat Café message #3793900 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #160019   Message #3793900
Posted By: Allan Conn
05-Jun-16 - 05:02 AM
Thread Name: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
Subject: RE: BS: To Br/Exit Or Not To Br/Exit
Rather than not addressing the Jacobites my post specifically states that the Scottish Parliament was laying the path for the Old Pretender to take the Scottish Crown on the death of Queen Anne. I took it for granted that readers would know this was the Jacobite period. That would have left England with a different totally separate kingdom on its northern border. A kingdom who's monarch felt himself the rightful king of England too and a kingdom which would be at least potential allies of France should relations with England worsen. That was my whole point! The idea that Scotland was needy so England stepped in to offer union because they wanted to help is just nonsense! England turned to wanting full union in the first decade of the 18thC because it wanted to secure control of the whole island and it wanted to protect the Hanovarian Succession which had been secured by an Act in the English Parliament without taking any note of the Scottish Parliament's wishes. My whole post was simply countering Red's simplistic take on history "Scotland was bankrupt so England was happy to step in". Anyone doubting that the Acts I mentioned aren't real just needs to check on the UK Parliament's own website which does not even try to hide the fact that Scotland was pressurised - in fact it openly says it. Link at the bottom.....

As to the implied threat of force. That come from the fact that there was an English military force waiting on the English side of the Border whilst the Scottish Parliament was debating the union proposals. I'm not a historian but I am a keen reader of Scottish history so the knowledge of that fact just comes from reading numerous books on the said subject. I'll give one example from "Scotland's Relations With England - A Survey To 1707" by William Ferguson

"By December the English force lying on the Border had been reinforced by a further 800 cavalry and was ready to move north at Queensbury's call"

Not much use going into what ifs as they can't be proved one way or another but the force was there for two possible reasons. Certainly it was there should the Scottish parliament accept union then need military assistance should there be a popular uprising as the idea of union was deeply unpopular amongst the Scottish population at large - however it was also seen as further pressure on the anti-union side in Parliament not knowing whether the force would cross the border or not should they vote the wrong the way!

My whole post was not trying to make political points in any way as how and why union came about in 1707 is not really relevant to us now 300+ years later. I'm interested in history.