Mudcat Café message #3399551 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #146628   Message #3399551
Posted By: GUEST,wyrdolafr
03-Sep-12 - 02:40 PM
Thread Name: Whitby 2012
Subject: RE: Whitby 2012
I don't understand the grief that Jack Campin has got in this thread at all. This is the sum of what he's posted:

"(I would go some way to avoid seeing the Doyle Family again, but they were the only real duds)."

and then

"It wasn't Simon Doyle's music I disliked so much as the posing and the patriarchal control-freakery."

It's a bit harsh, but it's subjective and he's allowed an opinion in the same way everyone is free to ignore that same opinion. A pre-emptive strike with "NO HE DOESN'T NOT WHEN IT IS ABOUT MY HERITAGE & CULTURE" doesn't cut it when he's not mentioned even 'heritage' or 'culture' in his posts.

He even goes to qualify (or maybe back pedal/'ease up' slightly) the first comment by saying that he doesn't have too much of a beef with the music per se (which renders later comments about any slight on talent of the kids a bit redundant) and it all seems to be down to some kind of 'personality' issue which Jack Campin doesn't elaborate on

Now whilst it may be a bit tight/mean of him to critique kids harshly (and, again, he later qualifies the comment and takes the kids out of the picture) but how does what he wrote get to be interpreted like this:

"THE GALL TO SAY OR TO QUESTION ANYTHING ABOUT THE ROOTS OF WHICH ME AND MY FAMILY HAVE DECENDED FROM YOU IGNORANT FOOL? YOU HAVENT GOT A CLUE IGNORANT FOOL?"

I'm failing to see where Jack Campin did this.

"OR WERE YOU JUST WANTING TO SAVE IT ALL FOR MUDCAT ''THINKING TO YOURSELF O WELL THE TRAVELLERS WON'T SEE THEESE COMMENTS''"

I'm no mind-reader and have no way of what Jack Campin was thinking when he wrote his comments but this is quite an assumption/stretch.

"AND YES I AM A TRAVELLER FAMILY MAN THROUGH AND THROUGH AND VERY PROUD TO BE, AND CAN'T WAIT TO SHOW YOUR COMMENTS TO MY FAMILY IN IRELAND, ENGLAND,SCOTLAND,WALES, EUROPE AND U.S. YOU SMALL MINDED PERSON."

I can understand the 'family man' aspect, in fact it's the only part of it I do understand. Most parents are protective and proud of their kids, whether it's a gig or a school project. How the 'Traveller' bit is relevant, I've no idea. Jack Campin doesn't refer to the word or even history/culture of "Traveller" at all.

"THATS JUST YOUR WAY OF COVERING YOUR TRUE HIDDEN AGENDER THAT YOU REALLEY ARE A ''RACIST AGAINST TRAVELLERS'' GET OVER IT TRAVELLERS WERE AROUND FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS & WILL BE AROUND FOR A LOT LONGER ASWELL.

OOPS THIS IS A TRAVERLLER THAT CAN READ AND WRIGHT WHICH ''JACK CAMPIN'' MIGHT NOT BELIEVE OR HE MIGHT SAY I'M A ''DUD'' AGAIN BUT LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING FOR NOTHING THE VAST MAJORITY OF TRAVELLERS ARE SOME OF THE BEST SCHOLARS GOING"

What's this accusation of racism founded on? The word "Duds", "posing" or "patriarchal"? How do they get to be interpreted as 'racism'?

"THE WAY HE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT ME OR MY FAMILYS FEELINGS WHEN HE MADE THEM COMMENTS"

I don't play folk music, (although I listen to a lot of it), but I've been in plenty of bands, playing different kinds of music over the years. One thing I realised early on is that you need fairly thick skin as a performer because not everyone will like what you do, no matter how hard you try or, indeed, how good you (and others) think you are. From the YouTube clips I've seen of the Doyle Family I thought they were OK, but I'd never think of reining in my criticism of a performer just because they're dad might not like what I had to say. If this is specific to kids, where would you draw the line? 16-years-old? 18? 21? When they've left home? Got a job? Is it an I.Q thing? An E.Q. thing? Or is this a 'never express a negative opinion, ever' thing?

"AND YES JACK BY ALL MEANS PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU DO INTRODUCE YOURSELF THE NEXT TIME YOU ENTER MY COMPANY!"

I'm sure I'm not the first in this thread to read this as a threat of physical violence.

Seriously, much of this thread has been genuinely baffling as to the responses to Jack Campin's posts.