Mudcat Café message #3341608 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #22617   Message #3341608
Posted By: Steve Gardham
22-Apr-12 - 08:32 AM
Thread Name: Origin: High Germany
Subject: RE: Origin: High Germany
Jim,
I'm well aware of all the songs and song types that you quote but there really aren't that many of them when you compare them with the vast bulk of love songs comic songs etc.

Let's look at Banks of Newfoundland. Only 2 versions from oral tradition contain the reference to 'the dead-man's face'. The song itself is very much based on the broadside ballad 'Van Diemen's Land'. However it's sufficiently different to classify it as a song in its own right and was very likely rewritten by a merchant seaman out of Liverpool, but these songs are relatively scarce. I'm not including sea shanties as you know as they are a mid-Atlantic thing largely and deserve classification all of their own, though undoubtedly folksong. Even some of these are based on Tin Pan Alley songs.

Okay the main source for challenging Sharp's 'Merrie Englande' has got to be Georgina's 'Imagined Village' but there are others.

Virtually illiterate. For the period we are talking about, early 19thc not all were illiterate. The printed songs as you well know were hawked about by pedlars and were sold at country markets.

Again to repeat I have never said or implied that the rural poor were incapable of this sort of composition. I have plenty of examples of my own. They just didn't get into print, hence weren't widespread, hence didn't get collected, in the vast majority of cases.

As for my alleged ambivalence to origins and oral tradition, this simply stems from our difference in beliefs. You think they are the same thing. I think they are 2 quite separate things.

Once again we take on somebody else's thread.

Can I please suggest we stop going over the same old ground from one thread to another and either set up a separate thread for our discussions or we conduct this by email.

Luv, Steve