Mudcat Café message #1596932 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #62901   Message #1596932
Posted By: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
03-Nov-05 - 09:33 PM
Thread Name: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views of the Bush Administration
Old Guy:

OG: The missles did exist. Several landed in Israel and one landed in Saudi Arabia in Gulf I and one in Kuwait in Gulf II. Saddam got dinged just befor Gulf II by the UN because the missles under manufacture had a longer range that the UN allowed him to have. Too long of a range for self defense.

While the U.S. maintained in 2002 that Iraq still had SCUDs (the ones used in GW1) hidden, in fact, none were found. The U.N. inspectors, before the war, went to check of one supposed "SCUD" site, and came up with chickens**t. Literally. The building the U.S. intelligence had told them (after stonewalling for months the U.N. inspectors on the "intelligence" despite the requirements of UNSCR 1441 that they make any such "evidence" known) was a SCUD hiding site turned out to be a chicken farm. Other "intelligence" that was checked out by the U.N. inspectors before Dubya started his "war of choice" was similarly wrong, to the point that one inspector referred to it as "garbage, garbage, and more garbage" (albeit using slightly less polite terms).

The disputed missiles (which were not SCUDs) had perhaps a couple flights beyond the 150 km nominal maximum range allowed (and even this was in dispute), but only in test flights, which didn't include an actual payload. No matter; Saddam acquiesced to the demand to destroy them and they were being dismantled by the inspectors before Dubya decided to get U.S. servicemen killed.

BTW, your "Salman Pak" stuff is also debunked. After the war, the inspections teams found nothing to indicate that the facility was used for anything other than what the Iraqis claimed: For counter-hijacking training (and this makes sense; you don't hijack an airliner with an assault from the outside, but that's what you have to do when trying to subdue hijackers who have already taken it over ... so training to hijack doesn't need a real airplane, but training to storm the plane does).

Your quotes of Dems and such also claiming Saddam had weapons are, many of them, old and out-of-date, and most do not claim that Saddam indisputable had WMD, as Dubya's maladministration did. In fact, some of these purported supporting quotes don't even mention WMD at all.

You know, the "Dem quotes" and the "Salman Pak" garbage you're floating here sounds like you're hooked up on an IV to the RW foamer/RNC "spin points". These are the same things I've seen repeatedly put forth by apologists for the maladministration and other RWers, and they've been repeatedly debunked and discredited. That won't stop the RW from trotting them out again and again as if sheer repetition makes something true.

As for people needing to cover their own arses for their former beliefs that there were WMD, you might find some, but I'm not one of them. I paid attention, read the papers and such, and knew that there was nothing before the first shot was fired. As did plenty of others. As I said above, the weapons inspectors had already checked out much of the U.S. "intelligence" and found it to be nonsense. And they were reporting this. The Niger papers were proven to be (bad) forgeries. But the maladministration, rather than said, "now wait a minute, maybe we ought to go take a closer look at our 'intelligence'", rather just blasted away ... and to a very sorry end.

Many of those who did think that Saddam had WMD did so because of the garbage information that the maladministration was feeding them. And don;t go off claiming that they had the same "information" that the maladministration did; that's not true. Pretty much everything they were given to look at was filtered through the maladministration before it ever got to them, and was what the maladministration wanted them to see (which is why we really need an investigation about how the OSP and WHIG, and Cheney's office, cooked the books).

OG: Remember when good old peaceable Jimmy Carter attacked Panama to oust Noriega? Was pineapple face planing any attacks on the US? Carter was a Democrat though and gets a pass.

Ummm, Panama was Bush I's baby..... If you get things like this, so easily found on the Internet (if you are sufficiently senescent that you can't remember without that help), wrong, I can understand why you're falling for the Salman Pak and other RTW garbage you're spewing here.

As far as provable lies from Dubya, how about this one:

Asked about those infamous 16 words in his State of the Union Address about Iraq shopping in Niger for yellowcake uranium, the leader of the free world replied: "The larger point is and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power ..."

You can Google it and find other reports of this. Seriously, Dubya either thinks that Saddam "wouldn't let [the inspectors] in", or he out-and-out lied!   Now no serious person believes that Saddam didn't let the inspectors in; hell, it was in all the newspapers, TV reports, clips of the inspectors (amongst other things) dismantling those disputed MR missiles, etc. So either Dubya's a liar, or so manifestly divorced from any semblance of reality that it's imperative we invoke the 25th Amendment and remove him from any position where he can do any more damage.

Here's more Dubya lies.

I suspect, though, Old Guy, that you aren't going to take advantage of this opportunity to edumacate yourself just a little, and will continue listening to Limbaugh and the like and parroting the same old RNC song until the whole damn country falls apart ... and then say "Whattha?!?!?!" in amazement that things blew up without your ever having the slightest clue.

Cheers,