Mudcat Café message #1391022 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #77771   Message #1391022
Posted By: Piers
28-Jan-05 - 04:30 AM
Thread Name: BS: The Religious Left
Subject: RE: BS: The Religious Left
The whole intellectual advance, which most of the left has since lost interest in, of which Marx and Engels were early protagonists, was that of removing the ethical, moral and vague ideas about justice from the socialist movement. This was not because they dour and uncompassionate but because they recognised that religious and personal ethics are informed by material existence. They observed contradiction in morality between members of different classes and between different societies and historical eras. They recognised the hopelessness of trying make people 'good' whilst the relationships of people to each other are antagonistic (i.e. the labour versus capital).

Their point was that we don't need a left and right - the antagonism, we could have social ownership of the means of life and democratic control or production directly to fulfil the needs of people rather
than production for profit and allocation on the basis of ability to pay. They also showed that this could only happen where the means of life were capable of producing an abundance, that is prior to the industrial revolution socialism was not a possibility - thus Jesus could not have been a socialist, in fact he famously said 'Sell that thou hast and give to the poor' which sounds a pretty stupid idea to me, not a step toward to socialist society, but social suicide. 'Take no thought for the morrow' Jesus said, which is entirely anti-social advice. In fact, Jesus' teaching was to despise worldly things for the sake of a reward in heaven. Socialism, is the appreciation
of the things of this world and the endeavour to make a better world here.

In my humble opinion