Mudcat Café message #1133012 The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #67653   Message #1133012
Posted By: Allan C.
10-Mar-04 - 10:06 AM
Thread Name: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
Subject: RE: BS: Dating Behaviour - am I out of touch ?
Please pardon me if I ramble just a bit. There have been many issues brought to light here that I want to address.

That the two genders are different appears at first glance to be a no-brainer. (Or as someone said, "Duh".) What I think I see being pointed out over and over here is that we often forget that basic tenet and what it means. It can be a lifetime occupation just to try to compensate for the lack of the ability to understand the drives and thought processes of another. Not everyone chooses to make that effort. It is a lot of work and can sometimes prove not to be worth the bother.

It may surprise you to know that I don't like most men. I don't know whether to blame the demeanor of so many of them on bad role models, television or what; but I will add the words, self-absorbed and pretentious, to Little Hawk's mention of the "loudmouthed, aggressive assholes". Boring? I'm not sure that is the right word. Boorish seems to fit much better. Wearisome fits as well. I find all the pissing contests and Neanderthal grunting quite wearisome. I think it is extremely sad that so many men put so much energy into perpetuating the macho fašade, whatever the reason. What I will never understand for as long as I live is that so many of these men are married. This means that some women found these features acceptable enough (or even attractive enough!) to vow to live with them for eternity (or "until divorce do we part".) Can those women really be that desperate? Or do they cling to the notion that they can influence a change? I just don't get it.

As I hope you have discovered for yourself, not all men are as I have described. There are more gentle and even more genteel models; but because of their very nature, they are much harder to find. Lacking the macho ostentation, they don't stand out in most crowds. It is these men who are more likely to be the ones Freda speaks of that "display with [their] wit, [their] music, [their] eyes." I very much like most men of this sort. I believe it is these men who are usually more in touch with themselves and who are, therefore, perhaps more able to be in touch with the women in their lives.

Whether either of these groups of men is more capable than the other of respecting a woman's wish to abstain from having sex for a lengthy period of time is not something I can accurately assess. While I suspect it would be the latter group, my best guess is that the majority of men of either group, no matter how much they might feel toward a woman, would expect to have sex with her once the romance was well under way. I suppose there are people who can intellectualize abstention and categorize it as an exercise in the demonstration of respect. Personally, I can find no justification for what I see as the denial of an extremely important aspect of the relationship. Lacking more accurate parallels, I would have to compare it with choosing not to discuss financial matters until after you have been in an otherwise complete relationship for many months. Do you really not want to know about such a vital issue until you have invested so much emotion and effort in the relationship? I refer again to my caveat regarding galoshes and bassoons. I am about as hopelessly romantic as they get; but there is a practical side that should never be eliminated from consideration.

I believe I do understand what you are wanting, B&B. I dated and eventually married a woman who had written a treatise on "Virginity After Marriage". But even she changed her stance in short order.

bbc is spot on about the signals. I have been on both sides of having signals to be misread. It can be a very difficult matter. What some might interpret as simple flirtation or teasing, others will see as overt invitation for much more. Saying what you want and don't want clearly and succinctly is very good and all. But doing so does take a lot of the fun out of the flirtation bit.