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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
WyoWoman Starbucks under terror threat (63* d) RE: STARBUCKS UNDER TERROR THREAT 03 Feb 02


That demonstration sounds like utterly perfunctory devolution to me. And exceedingly lazy journalism.

Just a couple of responses, quickly, on my way from here to there:

leprechaun -- Not all demonstrators or protestors are rioters. You do a disservice to the democratic process to dump them all in the same bin. You also negate the work of people who embrace the example of Ghandi and M.L. King, Jr. in their belief that non-violent political action is an important way to bring attention to unjust and anti-democratic practices. I assume you're in favor of the American form of government, and we might do well to remember that the United States grew out of a protest movement, and that one of the cornerstones of our republic is the right of the people to SAY SO when they think something isn't right. Your obvious bias against people who are exercising their First Amendment right to free speech, and, sometimes, their right to petition their government for a redress of grievances, makes me wonder who you think the police are supposed to be protecting and serving. Just because someone objects to the status quo, and does so in a visible way in a public place, does this make him or her a "rioter" in your estimation and therefore not worthy of consideration or protection?

You also said, "If there's no threat of trashin' things, we're not showin' up." Hmmm. So you're protecting property above people? I thought part of the reason for letting the police know what you were going to do was to make sure people didn't get into it with each other and start bashing each other over their differences of opinion. I thought part of the purpose of the police is to protect processes more than property. Back when I was protesting (an ill-conceived proposed nuclear power plant up the highway from my home), we always let the police and Kerr-McGee corp. know exactly where we were going to be, how long we'd be there, how many of us there would be, etc., not for the purpose of inviting the cops to show up and bop us over the heads, but so there wouldn't be any surprises, and so traffic, crowds, and so forth could be controlled intelligently and in a way that assured that things ran smoothly and we were able to make the point we wanted to make, in a visible, public way, without anyone getting hurt.

But it appears you're saying you'd rather demonstrators just show up, plop themselves down in the middle of things and let everyone else deal with trouble as it arises? Sounds like a recipe for mayhem to me.

And Dicho, you're incorrect in your assumption that all coffee is picked by "peon Indians." That's the point of Fair Trade coffee -- it is entirely possible to have coffee picked by people who are getting a fair shake for the work they're doing. It's not a lot by your standards, but just a few cents per pound makes a huge difference in these economies, and when it's going to the individuals and the co-ops, the people and their families benefit, which feeds the economy MUCH much more than when the profit is all exported and people owe their lives to the company store.

And, just a point of UTTER FREAKING FRUSTRATION ... why the hell is it not possible to talk about objecting to the shenanigans of giant corporations without being characterized as ANTI-CAPITALIST????? I LOVE ENTREPRENEURIAL BUSINESS!!! I love competition and actually free markets. But that's NOT what we have here in the U.S. -- and if you think it is, you've been hornswaggled by those very companies of which you ought to be suspicious. As the ENRON situation ought to be proving to us daily, they purchase the competitive process and buy off the entities that ought to be regulating them so they can do whatever the hell they want to, away from public scrutiny and beyond the boundaries of accountability. THIS IS WRONG and it's unworthy of us.

ww


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