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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
GUEST,Observer This land is WHOSE land? (117* d) RE: This land is WHOSE land? 19 Jul 20

"I think it's important to understand the history and nature of immigration to the United States, because it leads to an understanding of the political history of the US. The post from Observer above (click) is a copy-paste of a very misleading article that appears several places on the Internet, but not at anything that could be considered a credible Website. Each of the sites is marked with what appears to be a choking turtle with dollar signs for eyes - I don't know what that icon means, but the document certainly gives a distorted view of history."

Don't know what sites you were visiting Joe but I certainly did not see any "turtles" choking or otherwise, or dollar signs. What distortion Joe? What you state in your second paragraph bears out everything I said in my post.

YOUR: "It's hard to study the ethnic makeup of the US in history. Most of the divisions are between white and black, but I think it's important to recognize that many of the working-class Europeans came after 1850, some as late as the 1920s. Yes, there was a small Dutch colony in New Amsterdam, and the descendants of those people became the elite in New York - but in general, almost all settlers in the United States before 1840, were English."

Is not a distorted view of History it is simply WRONG. At the time the first British colonies were established along the East Coast of America, the Spanish, the French and the Dutch were already there [kinda puts paid to your almost all settlers were English BS]

Could you explain how is a discredited site?

Your original post in which you mentioned "Manifest Destiny" you fail to mention when that term was coined - in 1845 either from an article with the title "Annexation" written by journalist and annexation advocate Jane Cazneau or by a newspaper editor John o'Sullivan - who if asked at that time [69 years AFTER the Declaration of Independence] if either considered themselves to be anything other than American would think the person asking the question to be out of their minds.

With regard to Jane Cazneau I suppose you will claim that the work entitled "Mistress of Manifest Destiny" by Linda S. Hudson, A Biography of Jane McManus Storm Cazneau, 18071878. Texas State Historical Association, 2001. Is a distorted view of history. Personally I don't think it is, and I believe that when it does come to history on this subject both Linda Hudson and those writing for are a damned sight better informed than you are Joe.

Take a look at a map of North America in 1840 and compare it to one of 1850 and note the differences - those grabbing the land were both citizens of, and settlers to, the United States of America who fully considered themselves to be American and who were backed all the way by the American Government of the day - This plunder had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the British, although I can see why you would like to think so as it would somehow assuage your conscience as in your mind you can tell yourself that your ancestors came later. Successive US Governments have a well recorded history of reneging on treaties they have signed with the Native American Indians and of treating them abominably.

Here are some of the sources for statements made in that post of mine that you considered to be a distorted view of history:

1. "Leaving England: The Social Background of Indentured Servants in the Seventeenth Century Archived January 6, 2009, at the Wayback Machine", The Colonial Williamsburg Foundation.

2. Butler, Becoming America, The Revolution before 1776, 2000, p. 34-35 ISBN 0-674-00091-9)

3. The Oxford History of the British Empire, The Eighteenth Century, Ed. P. J. Marshall, p. 3 ISBN 0-19-820563-5

4. Encyclopedia of the Colonial and Revolutionary America, 1996 p. 200-202 ISBN 0-306-80687-8

5. Jon Butler, Becoming America, The Revolution before 1776, 2000, pp. 1649 ISBN 0-674-00091-9)

6. "A Look at the Record: The Facts Behind the Current Controversy Over Immigration Archived February 11, 2009, at the Wayback Machine". American Heritage Magazine. December 1981. Volume 33, Issue 1.

"Historians estimate that fewer than 1 million immigrants moved to the United States from Europe between 1600 and 1799. In the first federal census, in 1790, the population of the United States was enumerated to be 3,929,214" [ Source: "History: 1790 Fast Facts". U.S. Census Bureau.] Another discredited source Joe? Discredited by who?

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